32 replies to this topic

[E.T. & Elliott]

I feel they elevate the original Star Wars above the others. Now, Empire is my favorite. Star Wars feels more like...classic cinema? The entire cast is wonderful, the big sets and Williams' score hark back to the so-called Hollywood Golden Age, the desert scenes feel like an old western and the finale is like a big war epic in outer space. Yeah, yeah. All these elements combine to create this perfect ultimate piece of entertainment. We all dig it.

Then you've got the venerable actors in the cast: Cushing and Guiness. They seem to take the material more seriously, somehow. There's simply no disconnect in their performances when judged against other roles. Cushing may have been known for B movie roles, but the guy was friggin' brilliant. There's no one like him in the other movies. Christopher Lee, though a cool presence, was more boring that algebra in the prequels, not that I'm discussing them. More than anyone else in the cast (save maybe James Earl Jones), they transform their sometimes flat-out banal dialogue into brilliance. There's more gravitas.

Guiness makes it possible to believe that Lucas intended Ben Kenobi to mislead Luke about his Father. Another in that role could have screwed it up. Guiness acts it out in a way where he possibly subtly hints that there's more to what he's saying. Cushing is slightly more one-dimensional as a villain, but he still injects some humanity into the role. There's an edginess to him at times, you feel he's a guy under extreme pressure occasionally frustratingly attempting to please his unseen Emperor. He's also a seriously cool bad guy. Every line of his is pure gold. "Charming, to the last."

Sure, we love Luke, Han, Leia, Chewie, the robots, Yoda, etc. But there's just nothing quite like the old guys in the original, don't you think?

[Luke Skywalker]

Tarkin, humanity?

what's next, Vader Redeeming himslef?

come on...

[Greg1138]

Good post....I've often felt that the inclusion of Christopher Lee into the prequels was kind of an attempt to rekindle some of that love for the "Old Guard" feeling....whether it succeeded or not is open to debate, I feel.

[Hedji]

I suppose if I had to pick favorite actors, both Peter Cushing and Christopher Lee are right up there in my top 5. So kindly refrain from ragging on Lee's performance in the prequels. We should all be some incredibly awesome when we're in our 80s. Comparing Lee to Cushing is pointless as they go together like peas and carrots.

Star Wars is my favorite film series. Adding Christopher Lee was an answer to my prayers.

But yeah, Cushing and Guiness are a dose of awesomeness that you only truly appreciate after you grow up a little. As a kid, it was all about the core heroes and villains.

[John Takis]

I doubt anyone would dispute the quality of Lee's performance. I think they would dispute the quality of the material he was given.

(My own view is that, like Ian McDiarmid, he manages to turn straw into gold for those moments when he is speaking.)

[indy4]

It's a little surprising that Alec Guiness, or really anybody who was well established at that point, would agree to work on something that was expected to be a silly kids' movie, and not even a top grosser. Thank God they did!

[Greg1138]

I doubt anyone would dispute the quality of Lee's performance. I think they would dispute the quality of the material he was given.

(My own view is that, like Ian McDiarmid, he manages to turn straw into gold for those moments when he is speaking.)

Absolutely (how any could think my post was slagging off Lee's performance....?????) - in fact I would say that - much as I enjoy the prequels - he outclassed them for every moment he was in. Which takes me back to my original point.

[crocodile]

Successful or not, Christopher Lee's presence in AOTC was the second best thing about the film.

(I know, I know. It still doesn't say a lot)

Karol

[Dole]

I think their contribution to the film extended to making the other actors better as well. Carrie Fisher talked in an interview once about getting some tips from Cushing, and I think several of the actors have mentioned that Guiness would throw them a kind word about their work when Lucas was too busy focusing on other things to compliment his actors. So it must have been nice for the rest of the cast to just have them on set. I've never read a bad word about Cushing. From what I understand, he was a wonderful person to be around.

[Greg1138]

Successful or not, Christopher Lee's presence in AOTC was the second best thing about the film.

(I know, I know. It still doesn't say a lot)

Karol

The scene in which he finds a bound Obi-Wan is quite remarkable...the words are sympathetic, even the tone of voice sounds almost caring and empathetic, and yet it's all underpinned by such malevolent evil....piece of genius, really.

I was also glad to find out during the production that Lee was involved in the Lightsabre stuff...as he freely admits, he's not as nimble on the feet as he used to be - but all those many years of Buckling Swashes in black and white meant he was - as far as Attack of the Clones is concerned - probably the most experienced and expert swordsman on the set. A different class.

[Thor]

Never really thought much about Cushing's performance in the film, since it's a very small role. But there's no doubt that Guiness heightens things. He heightened everything he starred in. The best performance is that by McDiarmid, though, IMO.

[chuckster312]

I was also glad to find out during the production that Lee was involved in the Lightsabre stuff...as he freely admits, he's not as nimble on the feet as he used to be - but all those many years of Buckling Swashes in black and white meant he was - as far as Attack of the Clones is concerned - probably the most experienced and expert swordsman on the set. A different class.

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[Richard]

Never really thought much about Cushing's performance in the film, since it's a very small role. But there's no doubt that Guiness heightens things. He heightened everything he starred in. The best performance is that by McDiarmid, though, IMO.

Anyone who can recite the line "Viceroy, I don't want that stunted slime in my sight again", and not sound like a complete twat, deserves a medal!

Cushing, Guiness, and McDiarmid lift the films out of the mundane, and add a touch of class. Cushing's entrance is brilliant, coming to a scene half-way through, and dominating its remainder.


It's probably a moot point, but let's not forget Clive Revel's contribution, even if only in voice.

[Joey]

Peter Cushing WAS the villain in Star Wars, Vadar was his lap dog. He made me believe he was evil and cruel. Given what we know of Vader any man who could control him was a man of great power and ability. Christopher Lee has never captured my admiration the way Cushing did, but that is no slight to Lee. Cushing was just a fabulous actor. He elevated everything he was in. But then that's what most of the great character actors do.

Alec was the only actor in the 6 films to be recognized by the Academy. It was well deserved. Before ESB I always thought Obi Wan was being deceptive when he talked to Luke. His expression is that of a man lying.

[Quint]

I know you're not much of an LotR fan, but what do you think of McKellen's Gandalf?

[chuckster312]

Or McKellen's Magneto?

Peter Cushing WAS the villain in Star Wars, Vadar was his lap dog. He made me believe he was evil and cruel. Given what we know of Vader any man who could control him was a man of great power and ability. Christopher Lee has never captured my admiration the way Cushing did, but that is no slight to Lee. Cushing was just a fabulous actor. He elevated everything he was in. But then that's what most of the great character actors do.

They're awesome in the Hammer Films production they've both starred in. And the great thing about the two is that they clearly feed off each other's energy.

[Joey]

I know you're not much of an LotR fan, but what do you think of McKellen's Gandalf?

McKellen is great in virtually everything he does, He was great as Gandalf, he was better in Apt Pupil, he was devilishly evil in that film. I always felt Lee got short changed in the Dracula films by not speaking in most of them.

[chuckster312]

I know you're not much of an LotR fan, but what do you think of McKellen's Gandalf?

McKellen is great in virtually everything he does, He was great as Gandalf, he was better in Apt Pupil, he was devilishly evil in that film. I always felt Lee got short changed in the Dracula films by not speaking in most of them.

[Joey]

Mcdiarmid does nothing to elevate anything in Star Wars. He cheapens ROTJ, and he's just unbearable in the prequels, he is neither believably evil, or interesting. He is among the bad character actors in the entire series.

It's not hard to believe he isn't very good, afterall look at the pedestrian performances out of McGregor, and Portman. Liam Neeson is never going to recognised as a great actor, but his contributions don't add up to much either. Hayden Christiansen is terrible, but he's surpisingly ok in other films.

[Stefancos]

McKellen is great in virtually everything he does, He was great as Gandalf, he was better in Apt Pupil, he was devilishly evil in that film. I always felt Lee got short changed in the Dracula films by not speaking in most of them.

He was the best thing in The DaVinci Code. A film that took itself much to seriously. He knew it was a pot-boiler and brilliantly hammed it up!

[Quint]

He as the second character in the movie to look absolutely nothing like how he was written. Not that I've seen it.

I've seen Angels and Demons, though. It was risible.

[Joey]

He will be great in the Hobbit, and he'll look great shot at the new speed. He'll look crisper, more real.

[E.T. & Elliott]

It's probably a moot point, but let's not forget Clive Revel's contribution, even if only in voice.

Well, I prefer the original scene in Empire Strikes Back. I always liked his voice.

[John Takis]

Mcdiarmid does nothing to elevate anything in Star Wars. He cheapens ROTJ, and he's just unbearable in the prequels, he is neither believably evil, or interesting. He is among the bad character actors in the entire series.

I'm not saying this is you specifically, but I think a lot of people who complain about McDiarmid are actually complaining about the character as conceived and written by Lucas -- that is, a satanic proxy who glories in evil and seems to love badness for badness' sake. This is, of course, not very "interesting" from one point of view; in the real world, human beings simply aren't like that. But Palpatine is not really meant to be human; he is a fairy-tale monster masquerading as a human being. (I don't mean to say that there aren't other dimensions to Palpatine that merit commentary -- the manipulative politician; the corrupt power-monger; the infallible prelate -- but it's hard to deny that the role of cackling arch-fiend ultimately dominates, especially in the prequels.) Given the part and dialogue McDiarmid was handed, I have a hard time imagining any actor producing a finer performance.

Personally, I eat it up.

[Quint]

I agree. Lucas wrote ham and he got hammy.

[Richard]

I know you're not much of an LotR fan, but what do you think of McKellen's Gandalf?

McKellen is great in virtually everything he does, He was great as Gandalf, he was better in Apt Pupil, he was devilishly evil in that film. I always felt Lee got short changed in the Dracula films by not speaking in most of them.

If you think that McKellen is good in "LOTR", watch him in "Gods And Monsters", and the Channel 4 tv movie "Walter".

It's probably a moot point, but let's not forget Clive Revel's contribution, even if only in voice.

Well, I prefer the original scene in Empire Strikes Back. I always liked his voice.

I suspect that McDiarmid was asked to impersonate Revel for "ROTJ".

[John Takis]

It's Clive Revill, by the way. Let us dignify the man by his proper name!

[Once]

I know you're not much of an LotR fan, but what do you think of McKellen's Gandalf?

McKellen is great in virtually everything he does, He was great as Gandalf, he was better in Apt Pupil, he was devilishly evil in that film. I always felt Lee got short changed in the Dracula films by not speaking in most of them.

“I didn’t speak in those pictures. The reason was very simple. I read the script and saw the dialogue! I said to Hammer, if you think I’m going to say any of these lines, you’re very much mistaken.”
- Christopher Lee

[Drax]

Mcdiarmid does nothing to elevate anything in Star Wars. He cheapens ROTJ, and he's just unbearable in the prequels, he is neither believably evil, or interesting. He is among the bad character actors in the entire series.

I'm not saying this is you specifically, but I think a lot of people who complain about McDiarmid are actually complaining about the character as conceived and written by Lucas -- that is, a satanic proxy who glories in evil and seems to love badness for badness' sake. This is, of course, not very "interesting" from one point of view; in the real world, human beings simply aren't like that. But Palpatine is not really meant to be human; he is a fairy-tale monster masquerading as a human being. (I don't mean to say that there aren't other dimensions to Palpatine that merit commentary -- the manipulative politician; the corrupt power-monger; the infallible prelate -- but it's hard to deny that the role of cackling arch-fiend ultimately dominates, especially in the prequels.) Given the part and dialogue McDiarmid was handed, I have a hard time imagining any actor producing a finer performance.

Personally, I eat it up.

McDiarmid is the only reason I return to the prequels every now and then. His portrayal of the corrupt politician is really that of a rather likable and charismatic fellow, which is quite believable since many sociopaths acquire power by appearing the way they know people will fall for. "Darth Sidious" is really the megalomaniacal psychopath unleashed.

[Wojo]

I suspect that McDiarmid was asked to impersonate Revel [sic] for "ROTJ".

And why wouldn't he be? Revill established the character, and anyone who comes afterwards would be obligated to play something quite similar.

Kinda like when Kirstie Alley played Saavik first, and then Robin Curtis...oh...crap.

~*~

The thing about McDiarmid's Emperor is ROTJ is that we don't know why everyone fears him until the climax of the saga. Everyone. Moff Jerjerrod (the guy Vader puts "back on schedule") is scared to death that the Emperor would come to the Death Star II. Even Vader is subdued when in the presence of this frail-looking man in a black bathrobe. He hearkens back to Tarkin as someone who can manipulate Vader, leaving ESB as the only film where Darth Vader plays without any stops.

Anyways, this Emperor seems like a fragile almost grandmotherly character with the sadistic tone of voice and deliciously hammy sarcasm that punctuates every comment. I especially like the line "Oh, I'm afraid the deflector shield will be quite operational when your friends arrive." And then he just has this almost Marty Feldman-like smile like he's going to offer you a cookie and glass of milk, as he drags you and your sister away to the witch's oven.

But he's all bark and no bite. He just has the power of clairvoyance, he's not so tough. That's all Yoda had (as of 1983), the only thing he ever did was lift the X-Wing and...blue lightning! That man's got blue lightning out his fingers! He doesn't need a light saber, he doesn't have to threaten to choke people, he's got a bug zapper in his fingertips! Now I'm paying attention. And now he's dead (yes, dead, if you avoid EU stories like the plague).

Then when we get to the prequels, it takes a ludicrously long time -- two and a half movies -- for the blue lightning to return. The "Emperor" (Sidious/Palpatine) doesn't "do" anything but scheme, plot, lie, and manipulate as the incredibly long and boring buildup to the final deception and fall. But by that time, McDiarmid's performance has grown stale and cold.

[Jason LeBlanc]

I know you're not much of an LotR fan, but what do you think of McKellen's Gandalf?

McKellen is great in virtually everything he does, He was great as Gandalf, he was better in Apt Pupil, he was devilishly evil in that film. I always felt Lee got short changed in the Dracula films by not speaking in most of them.

“I didn’t speak in those pictures. The reason was very simple. I read the script and saw the dialogue! I said to Hammer, if you think I’m going to say any of these lines, you’re very much mistaken.”
- Christopher Lee

!!! That is one of the funniest things I've read in a while

[E.T. & Elliott]

Then when we get to the prequels, it takes a ludicrously long time -- two and a half movies -- for the blue lightning to return. The "Emperor" (Sidious/Palpatine) doesn't "do" anything but scheme, plot, lie, and manipulate as the incredibly long and boring buildup to the final deception and fall. But by that time, McDiarmid's performance has grown stale and cold.

I liked the Emperor better as the hunched frail guy in a cloak with cane. It was a nice parallel to Yoda. They were both small old guys, but guys you wouldn't want to mess with. The makeup was also done much better in Return of the Jedi. I'll always be a fan of that now bizarro alternate universe take on the Emperor from Empire Strikes Back.

The prequels got it all wrong between Yoda the Hedgehog, Palpatine (which should be pronounced Palpatyne) ludicrously hamming it up and the both of them flying around with lightsabers. It's nothing I ever imagined, even as a kid. In my opinion, Christopher Lee should have hammed it up more while McDiarmid toned it down. Jedi's version of the Emperor was genuinely creepy.

[Luke Skywalker]

"The dash across no man's land"


Hope you guys get the pun....