Mike Verta

[TownerFan 4,983]

Very nice Williamsesque piece composed by Mike Verta

[karelm 2,912]

Wow, that was quite good! Very nicely produced as well.

[Incanus 5,714]

Pretty impressive and indeed quite Williamsesque.

I can spot so many small Williams-isms' and subtle quotes from half a dozen JW scores in there.

Heh I just spotted Don Williams on timpani and Shawn Murphy recording. And the orchestra must be made up of the regular Hollywood session players.

[Thor 7,490]

I've been aware of Mike Verta for quite some time now, and he is -- IMO -- the composer who is the BEST at doing Williams pastiche, even more than McNeely, Debney etc. Whether that's a good thing or not is another discussion (originality and all that).

[mverta 15]

I can spot so many small Williams-isms' and subtle quotes from half a dozen JW scores in there.

Only 6?

Oh, and Thor, this is for you:

Keep the faith; JW's the man.

_Mike

This post brought to you by Google Alerts.

[KK 3,307]

That was a great piece, and very Williams-esque indeed! I'm hearing Jurassic Park in there.

[mverta 15]

Well you oughta! - I stole the pickup beat from Journey to the Island. Admittedly, it's not as much as JW stole from Hanson's Romantic or half of Respighi's Pines of Rome, or Holst, or VW, but then again I'm no John Williams; who is? Suffice it to say, "...shoulders of giants."

[KK 3,307]

Well I wasn't making any kind of accusation or insult and I apologize if it came off as such.

As you said, all composers or rather artists stem from the shoulders of giants. I thought the piece was excellent, and it'd be great to hear your hand at a big-budget film project.

[mverta 15]

Are you kidding?! No offense taken, at all I would expect, if you guys are the JW fans you say you are, you should be able to catch my nods better than anyone! Personally, the man practically taught me how to write from the time I was 5 years old, so I gave up fighting it decades ago. In the end, we either have something interesting to say or we don't. One doesn't always need to invent an entirely new language to say it in. And, ultimately, our own colors, life experiences, and biases come through; given enough time, it's unavoidable. Still, nobody catches the Russell Ferrante in my work, or the Rush, for that matter. Better hidden, I suppose.

Incidentally, checking this site again for the first time in God-knows how long turned me on to the 192kHz Jurassic Park. How f'in cool is that?!

_Mike

[TownerFan 4,983]

Hi Mike,

You brought interesting points to the table. I perfectly understand and agree with your line of thought. There are some things that are in the "inner blood" of the artist, who is very much like a sponge at a young age. The skill of morphing all the various influences into a single identifiable and personal musical voice takes a lot of years (and practice). Of course there are some models that are more inescapable than others that probably remain more under the skin.

Film music is however a peculiar beast, mainly because the composer is asked quite frequently to mimic or, worse, ape a particular style/gesture/voice for strict reasons of familiarity (or for mere commercial ones). So, in this sense, the path of the film composer can be a very tight one, where all the questions of "personal voice" are probably put aside quickly. JW has showed many times how he's been able to keep his integrity intact even when he had to be more of a ventriloquist than anything else. This is imho because he knows where he's coming from--he understands the basis on which Hollywood film music language was constructed (by the Golden Age pioneers, i.e. musicians who brought European symphonic tradition to H'wood and applied it to the film language) and he has the tools to evolve it in a personal way. In this very sense, he seems to be born at a perfect time, when all the stars aligned to make him what he is (it would be fun to speculate how JW career would have gone if movies never come his way, or if he would have been born in another era).

Today's film composers face similar problems, but probably of another entity. They have to deal with almost 100 years of film music history and all what happened in it, so the path can even be more narrow than ever, especially when one choose to write in a classical symphonic style. I can't remember who wrote or said it, but one of the biggest doubts about today's young composers who write in the classic Hollywood symphonic tradition is that quite a lot of them seem to base their own language just on film music, without "going back to the sources". This is a questionable statement, but it's true that some of today's film music resembles a third-rate rumination of previous models, like a faint reflection of the classical literature.

[Marcus 390]

I'd like to congratulate Mike Verta on his outstanding work, and for his poignant podcast as well.

I sympathize with what he is aiming to do, and have been through a similar process myself (internalizing what you once set out to emulate, thus eventually -hopefully- empowering yourself to truly create from a similar place, and not just imitate). This used to be the practice for all the arts: Apprenticeship.

And I'll add a point that never ceases to amaze me: It is precisely in our most blatant attempts at imitation that we run the "risk" of truly exposing

ourselves; we ultimately always end up deviating

from any model we choose, and in these deviations lie the fabric of our uniqueness.

It is our quirks that reveal us, and our strive for (unattainable) perfection that lends form and beauty to our quirks.

[Brónach 1,302]

Very well put. I can symphatize with this sentiment a lot.

[KK 3,307]

And I'll add a point that never ceases to amaze me: It is precisely in our most blatant attempts at imitation that we run the "risk" of truly exposing ourselves; we ultimately always end up deviating from any model we choose, and in these deviations lie the fabric of out uniqueness.

It is our quirks that reveal us, and our strive for (unattainable) perfection that lends form and beauty to our quirks.

As an amateur composer, I think you nailed it. I went through the same hint when I started. It worried me, but by the end, the music I write never really sounds like what I may have been inspired by because along the way, my work stylistically becomes its own.

I think that's how most composers really get started.

[Thor 7,490]

I can spot so many small Williams-isms' and subtle quotes from half a dozen JW scores in there.

Only 6?

Oh, and Thor, this is for you:

Keep the faith; JW's the man.

_Mike

This post brought to you by Google Alerts.

Thanks for the podcast, Mike.

I both agree and disagree with some of your statements.

I think the composition of good pastiche is an artform in itself, especially if you do it as well as you do. I also think you can eventually find your own voice through the emulation of others. John Powell is a good example -- he grew out of Zimmer and the power anthem, but ended up redefining a whole new paradigm with the Bourne riff (which in turn inspired Zimmer himself).

I also agree that the 'quest' for finding inspiration, sources and "rip-offs" is occasionally a very ridiculous enterprise. In fact, sometimes I read reviews where that seems to be the whole focus (Horner, anyone?) in lieu of of how the music connects, emotionally.

At the same time, I think inspiration should serve as a starting point for personal explorations, not an end in itself.

So I'm in a middle position on the debate. I think inspiration and sometimes even quotes can be very useful (perhaps even referencing musical tools that have been made famous by other composers), but ultimately one should explore the idiom in a personal direction. You shouldn't necessarily strive to be original (that is for others to decide), but strive to be personal.

Hope that made sense.

[mverta 15]

Sounds like we agree, as my conclusion is that having your work be personal is inevitable, given time. With chops and actually having something to say, one's own personal flair unavoidably comes through. You simply can't sustain an "impression" of somebody for any length of time; certainly not for a career spanning decades.

_Mike

[MSM 126]

Mike, congrats on your great 'sound', adapting JWs sound is an an art in itself...how many are there that truly can sound like him?

I wondered, I I may ask, how much you payed for the session + Shawn Murphy at the mixer??

[mverta 15]

Funny you ask that, because I'm teaching an online masterclass on this piece from start-to-finish on Friday night, and I was just looking through the budget sheets. Looks like around $35k all in.

_Mike

[MSM 126]

Funny you ask that, because I'm teaching an online masterclass on this piece from start-to-finish on Friday night, and I was just looking through the budget sheets. Looks like around $35k all in.

_Mike

Did you sell it to Fox? How does it pay off for you?

[mverta 15]

It pays off by being an absolutely invaluable learning process. An hour with a live group of top-call players is better than a year of any formal training. As composers, we no longer live in a world where having daily interactions with player-groups of all sizes is the norm, as it once used to be, thanks to virtual instruments and such, so to really get a handle on advanced techniques, you simply have to have face time with the orchestra. And the more complex the material, the more important the level of player required to properly test the techniques becomes.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

Mike Verta? As in mverta? As in mverta I've seen around CGTalk/SFM and the likes? As in the guy who has the coolest R2-D2 CG model that would put ILM's to shame?!

Whoa small world. Not satisfied kicking-ass in one trade eh?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Walid 3]

_Mike

You hang out here? that's sweet!!

So, when're you having your european-friendly "friday composer hangout"?

W

[Anthony 572]

Have you guys heard Forbidden Warrior? It's great!

Mike, are you doing any more music?

[mverta 15]

Heh.... Nah, I don't hang out here, really, but I got a Google Alert about it. I feel especially dirty posting in a thread with my name on it, but I do love and appreciate the vibe here, for sure.

Oh, and Forbidden Warrior's on Spotify, and that Euro-Friendly hangout is coming in the next couple weeks, promise

Thanks, guys for the kind words!

_Mike

[Walid 3]

Heh.... Nah, I don't hang out here, really, but I got a Google Alert about it. I feel especially dirty posting in a thread with my name on it, but I do love and appreciate the vibe here, for sure.

Oh, and Forbidden Warrior's on Spotify, and that Euro-Friendly hangout is coming in the next couple weeks, promise

Thanks, guys for the kind words!

_Mike

ha. all right.

Tasty news!!

[mverta 15]

Have you guys heard Forbidden Warrior? It's great!

Mike, are you doing any more music?

I'm wrapping up a film right now, actually, which I've done cooperatively with Ben Moody from Evanescence... our take on the "hybrid" score...

_Mike

[indy4 155]

Excellent piece, Mike!

I listened to the podcast too--you mentioned taht JW was at one point upset over criticsm of his work. Could you elaborate on that?

I'm also curious to see who you think are the "handful of people" in the world who have created completely unique and compelling works...are there academically respected composers who you feel are just as derivative (I hope this is the right word) as JW?

[mverta 15]

JW used to really downplay his film work, seeking approval from the academic community. That's what his concert works are about. He's since embraced it/resigned to it, and so he should. But for a long time there, he parrotted the same idiotic rhetoric I heard at university about how film music is just watered-down versions of "real" symphonic music, when in fact it's the structural miracle of film scores having to serve multiple masters simultaneously which is often jaw-droppingly complex and admirable; anything but a watered-down artform.

The handful of people who created seminal works are the likes of Stravinsky and Shostakovich, and a few others; composers who literally had people rioting in the streets at time because of the sheer power and controversy of their work at the time; works which went on to inform generations of composers and solidify our collective vocabulary on the "sound of the movies."

_Mike

[KK 3,307]

Shostakovich's early works were themselves a bit derivative of others like Stravinsky. Of course he developed his own style, but it had its roots.

[mverta 15]

For sure. Everybody's inspired by somebody. And it didn't used to be so demonized; lots of composers would do their own takes on other's melodies. Like sampling. Only with talent.

[Marcus 390]

I can think of very few composers who were inherently completely "original" (whatever one makes of that term).

Stravinsky and Shostakovich certainly both had obvious stylistic points of departure (Rimsky-Korsakov and Modest Mussorgsky leap most immediately to mind).

Prokofiev might be one of the best examples of a composer who even in his childhood works sort of sounds like an early version of his mature self, rather than a conglomerate of others.

Two even greater prodigies, Korngold and Mozart, grew up emulating others, eventually transcending their models.

I do think, however, that we should aim to cultivate our idiosyncrasies to some degree once we recognize them (and ideally once we make sure they're not simply results of laziness on our part).

I have no problem hearing an individual voice in Mike Verta's work, and -as always- it shines through precisely where he deviates from Williams, who still is more of a "concert composer" writing for film, which generally lends a slightly more cerebral flair to his music, even in its most sentimental moments.

[mverta 15]

I don't actually go down the defensive line very often about my work, but the musicological truth is there is a ton of deviation in there, as you point out; increasingly obvious the more you listen. But, you know, the comparison is usually coming from a good place, and when it's not, well... when someone is enthusiastic about dismissing somebody's work, there's usually more to the story, and usually part of it is they don't know the work very well. In either case, it comes with the territory. It's the long game. I was a big band composer long before I was doing orchestral work, so I actually catch as much Fedchock, Mintzer, and Harris in my work as anything else, but again, nobody hears that.

[Marcus 390]

Well, again: Congratulations on your excellent work!

I actually can hear -albeit very peripherally- the 'big band' influence-, as well as (I imagine) other film musical inspirations...

Your music (what I've heard on your website and elsewhere) is also generally a little more diatonic than Williams', and perhaps slightly more "vertical" (again: Big band?), and quite a lot of your motifs and melodic ideas also have a bit of a (neo-) baroque flavor to them.

I have to say that your 'double act' of visual work and compositional work is an interesting combo,

and there's a polish to both that I find strikingly similar (to one another).

Btw, have you written much for the concert hall?

[mverta 15]

Neo-Baroque... hey, you know, you might be right! Hadn't ever considered that...

I have not written much concert work, no. I'm actually writing my first bonafide symphony right now; it's such a different beast, I feel, but really challenging in the good way!

_Mike

[MSM 126]

The handful of people who created seminal works are the likes of Stravinsky and Shostakovich, and a few others; composers who literally had people rioting in the streets at time because of the sheer power and controversy of their work at the time; works which went on to inform generations of composers and solidify our collective vocabulary on the "sound of the movies."

_Mike

Even Schoenberg's works wouldn't exist if it weren't for Richard Strauss' influence.

Still, even if imitating or adopting a sound one cannot avoid giving his own voice to the work, if he wants it or not. In your music it is absolutely there. So, no need for any defenses

Looking forward to hearing your symphony!

[MSM 126]

I didn't know you also did the Superman logo for 'Returns'!

[mverta 15]

Man, I'm just always gettin' up in other people's business.

[MSM 126]

It's cool I wonder what you think of the new Superman design...

[mverta 15]

To my eye it's fine - it doesn't evoke that strong a feeling from me. I like the fact that it's less "S" than moreso, though perhaps a touch over-designed. I dunno. You can tell instantly what it is, right? So..

[MSM 126]

Yours was great! It was a wonderful update of the classic logo, and I loved the almost Escherian 3D effect. I wonder why things have to change if they worked perfectly. The new logo has a gothic feel to it that I wouldnt associate with Superman...same with the new suit design. Well, others seem to like it so it must be effective for some at least. And to be fair, we should wait for the movie to be able to fully judge it.

[mverta 15]

And technically, mine was a bitch and a half to model, because I wanted it to have all "G2" curve-continuous surface reflections, like a beautiful car. Easier said than done, but it changes everything about the way light and reflections play off the surface. It's the little things.

By the way, I did a free online Masterclass on music composition and production a couple of weeks ago, which is on YouTube, for anyone interested in music shop-talk (all 2 of you).

[Thor 7,490]

I don't presently have the time to look through all 4 hours of that, but it looks interesting. Love the pedagogical set-up with just yourself and the piano software.

A couple of weeks ago, I attended a masterclass with composer Richard Bellis (STEPHEN KING'S IT) here in Norway, and I was impressed by his smooth and pedagogical 'shop talk' videos. Fluid and concrete as only Americans know how to.

By the way....love those STAR WARS figures in the background. A full-sized stormtrooper and R2-D2! That can't have been cheap to acquire.

[MSM 126]

And technically, mine was a bitch and a half to model, because I wanted it to have all "G2" curve-continuous surface reflections, like a beautiful car. Easier said than done, but it changes everything about the way light and reflections play off the surface. It's the little things.

By the way, I did a free online Masterclass on music composition and production a couple of weeks ago, which is on YouTube, for anyone interested in music shop-talk (all 2 of you).

I can totally imagine, and it looks totally 'balanced' so I'm sure it took you a great deal of time to get it perfect. Did you use special software for it?

Mike asa I have time I am going to watch your masterclass!! I think I need to talk to you anyway sometime later about some basic stuff...