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I've been on this board as long as anyone here and I clearly remember the initial reaction to every single Star Wars released post-ROTJ has been quite lukewarm. AOTC and ROTS were classified as 'mediocre' works and even TPM got its share of harsh criticism. In 10 years, everybody will find it brilliant. I'm not saying The Last Jedi is my favorite Star Wars score of all time, but there is a lot of beauty and power in there. Those last 4 tracks alone! I think the Sequel Trilogy -taken as one body of work- with Rey's Theme, Kylo Ren's Theme, March Of The Resistance and now Rose's Theme is turning out to be a great and unique work. I just really hope Williams will be able to complete his epic 9 film magnum opus with Episode IX.

The man is 85 years old ffs, be grateful he's still writing anything, let alone Star Wars music! It's a great album. Quite frankly it's incredible how superior the orchestrations and lines of writing are compared to any other current composer.

In this film, John Williams is free to score in his classic style. The details are back, and the high energy. The performances and recording are at the LSO/Anvil level. (Which I believe are timeless and transcendent.) The score is the best thing in The Last Jedi, a movie many, many people love. It can't be the worst by objective measures. The film may divide the audience but the music is unifying. I agree with Williams, the Star Wars scores are all part of one extended project. Meaning the individual scores are very tricky to judge without the passage of time and appreciating how they fit together. The glossary of themes is large enough that there's more than a dozen in The Last Jedi. That's plenty of material that he develops with brilliance in addition to scene specific inventions. Every Williams score has great moments, especially in SW, and elevate the film. In attempting to order them, I looked at consistency, imagination, storytelling, frequency of genius, and sonic quality. TLJ is in the 4-6 range out of 8. Pretty good, considering all the scores are assured a place in music and film history. They all reward repeat listening. And are exciting and inspiring! Each new score motivates me to listen to the whole series with fresh enthusiasm. What an accomplishment!

The brass in this score is absolutely fantastic.

In my deranged mind, I'm getting a kick out of imagining the score's total disregard for restraint is a giant middle finger to JJ Abrams for his treatment of TFA's score. Demanding revisions of anything too bombastic (Han's death), dialling down what couldn't be revised (The Bombing Run), then outright deleting the rest (Parade Grounds, Finn vs Trooper). Rian approached this like a JW Fan! "This music is fucking awesome, make it deafening! Who cares about explosions or dialogue! Superstructure Chase, fuck yeah! Emperor's Theme? Why not!"

I agree it is tough to see Williams getting old, but I think he would have scored this movie the same 10 years ago as he did now. An eighth episode, whose story begins 15 minutes after the seventh episode and that offers very little new by way of characters, is bound to rely heavy on previous themes. I think he threw us fans a bone by giving us a new theme for what amounts to a role player, as it was the only "space" in which he could do so. He is like life, he finds a way.

Sucks you went and saw a different movie than I did. The ENTIRE chase through the salt mine to "Here They Come" had me grinning ear to ear. AMAZING and fit PERFECTLY. So much hate coming from those who wanted BIG answers to their own made-up questions is hilarious. The film was damn good and threw every expectation you had for it out the window. That is why you hated it and no amount of whining about it will convince you that your own failings are what skewed you experience watching this film. Rey's parents are exactly who she tells EVERYONE they are in The Force Awakens - NO ONE. It's right there 2 years ago. Luke ignored Yoda and Obi-Wan and still acts like he always had. He failed Ben so he ran away. If you don't like his reasons for doing so then blame J.J. for creating the scenario to begin with. Sometimes the best laid plans fail, you know, like Han trying to hide out on *Gasp* Bespin. Finn and Rose' plan came pretty darn close to success. Phasma - if dead- goes out like a warrior unlike that punk bitch Boba Fett. Amazing movie. Going again tomorrow and likely will see it more in theater than I did The Force Awakens. I nearly fell out of my (crappy new D-Box seat, designed in Quebec) seat when that happened. It was as bad as losing my dog. Just ouch. Beautiful, yes, but heartbreaking as well. But wow, what a way to go fooling everyone and giving Kylo a taste of what he'll never become.

I think a score needs repeated listening (in its complete/expanded form, if possible) AND the passage of time in order to be properly compared with an older work.

I think if you had really been raped in your life, you’d realize how fucking stupid it sounds to compare thinking a Star Wars movie was bad to being raped.

I think most members here are in agreement with you on most of these things. It is all absolutely true. But the funny thing is that so many people are disappointed because they didn't get what they want. They are simply not willing to go along for a ride and see where it takes them. They really want the usual and expected. And that is where critics differ from the audiences. Most reviews that I've read acknowledge the flaws but are happy that the film at least tries to be something. In my opinion, it's a good thing for a SW film to have a bit of a B-movie quality. As long as it is charming. Karol

You do realise Disney/Williams would make money off streaming services due to the ads that play before the videos, right?

Can we all agree that the Force Theme and Rebel Fanfare are both over-used at this point?

Lots to talk about, just freaking loving this score more and more. I knew it would happen, but I was still worried at how cold I felt initially. This motif was the first thing I noticed watching the film. I think it makes a few appearances later on as well. It's just classic Star Wars. I freaking love it. Another fabulous one is this action motif: I believe it's derived from this theme found in the end credits (not sure what it represents just yet, it's very exciting being part of this group thematic analysis though). Great stuff! This motif actually does feature in TFA in this cue here:

Reading all the feverish fan backlash made me chuckle. I mean, I've got issues with the film but they are mostly technical or to do with some pointlessly overcrowded plotting. But the concept itself is absolutely fine. Karol

Let's get some positive comments up in here to balance out the negativity.

Yeah...

One of the many things I like about the Maestro's score is the new concert piece, "The Rebellion Is Reborn." It combines Rose's theme, the Ahch-To Island motif, and the Rey and Luke student/teacher motif into a singular idea. It weaves them together showing that Rose's passionate spirit, combined with the knowledge of the Force, as well as everything Rey learns from Luke, form to create a singular idea, hence the name of the piece. Incredible.

The mix is a revelation compared to TFA. It fits right at home with the 3 prequels, which is simply how I identify that 'Star Wars sound' now. I guess they were aping ANH with TFA's mix but, on top of everything else that film was lifting from ANH, the score didn't need to follow the same formula. I've done a total 180 on March of the Resistance since hearing it live and hearing the theme's new variations in TLJ. It just works for me now and feels right at home with anything in the OT. I always hated that dry recording in TFA, was an instant-skip for months (especially those obnoxious opening blasts). Anyway, we had the experiment and now we can get back to normal programming. I hope IX is a continuation of TLJ's sound and style, though perhaps less reliant on older themes (we can now rule a few out) and more opportunities for choir/new material. And above all else, a little more cohesion to the editing would be welcome... oh shit, it's JJ Abrams.

TLJ in general seems like a big FU to TFA. Johnson shat on basically everything Abrams introduced in TFA but it seems like Abrams will have the last laugh.

A pity that you can hear the entire orchestra and not just the brass section? This retains the clarity of TFA's mix with a much more even spread of the orchestra.

Either Disney is colluding with IMDB and other review sites to give it praise (highly unlikely) or it's a vocal minority venting their dislike of a film that wasn't another Marvel-ous piece of shit. After reading the reviews I think the critics have got a pretty balanced opinion of the film, and after seeing the film there isn't too much to disagree with. This is simply the worst of the worst coming out of their holes to make a racket for five minutes. Fuck 'em, and fuck the critics who hated the the score too!

I will say just this... I don't give a flaying front door....... Well.... the musically IT IS ONE OF THE BEST SW SCORES for the SW and also for the contemporary scores... Everything else (production, writing) is utter bullshit. I have the greater mission to FORGET the images of this STUPID movie, so that I can enjoy the music separately from the film. The Leia flying... was the "NUKE THE FRIDGE" exposing the moment of the entire Hollywood FUCKED UP production of the CENTURY moment....... the most fucked up scene in the history of the movies.... SO DISRESPECTFUL of the lady that had just passed away..... I was like..... WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS ?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!? Musically..it was PERFECT!!!! Overall THIS WAS THE STUPIDEST AND also the most FUCKED UP MOVIE of the YEAR (or the MILLENNIUM ) ...... Musically it was awesome! Hope I will FORGET the images of the movie.... GIVE JAR JAR BINKS the OSCAR!!!!!!

My favorite YouTube comment I’ve seen so far, posted on The Spark.

A variation can be found in the track 'Chrome Dome' at around 0:26

So I've completed my first film viewing, two OST listens and have been listening to isolated tracks all night. I was a little negative last night focusing on the things I didn't like about the score, as I was still digesting the film itself (which I consider flawed but ultimately an excellent and daring addition to the series). The score, overall, is sublime. This has to be the most thematically dense score in the entire series, and surely the most slavish JW has been to existing thematic material. For months we've speculated what TFA themes would be jettisoned prequel-style (considering his disinterest in developing his prequel themes across that trilogy) but instead we find a score rich with development of almost every theme from TFA. I'm sure we'll debate the merits of this OST presentation for years to come, lamenting that so and so wasn't included (and yeah, why on earth they recorded Main Titles fresh but reused the TFA recording), but this is an almighty OST with nary a dull moment. An earlier poster put it brilliantly when they said JW was clearly shaking the dust off with TFA and took a while to get back in the swing of things, but TLJ feels like no time has passed at all since he finished with ROTS. I often comment that parts of TFA don't sound particularly Star Wars-y, especially the thin underscore, as if JW was going through the motions and still recapturing that 'mode' of writing style. As if the further along he went the more Star Wars-y his cues felt. This score is just effortless, a gob-smacking triumph for a man at 85, writing music with such complexity it puts most other film composers to shame. Bravo to the mixing department (Murphy and Sullivan) for their sublime mix. It retains the clarity of TFA's recording but we've returned to a fuller orchestral sound. Far less heavy on the brass, it's a wetter recording that feels right at home with the LSO's prequel scores. Amazing how two scores by the same orchestra on the same stage with the same recording setup can have such a radically different sound! Really makes you question why they went so dry and brass-focused with TFA (a recording which, after hearing live with a full orchestra, was a real disservice to the score as performed). And although the film seems light on new material upon first listen, there's at least 4 significant new ideas that I've picked up on: Rose's Theme Luke's Island Life Theme New First Order Motif/Fanfare (first heard in Escape and reprised throughout the complete score) Admiral Holdo's Theme (mostly unreleased) I'm only at page 7 of this thread but these are just my initial thoughts.

I think the use of binary sunset as the ending music is totally a director driven decision. Prior to TFA, binary sunset was only used once to end a Star Wars film, ROTS in an obvious "it rhymes" Lucas parallel. That was also s director driven decision. No other music made sense there. But in the case of TFA and TLJ other music could have made plenty of sense and JW has always written original music leading into the end credits, excepting ROTS. I think Johnson temped with it and asked for it.

I see your point, especially in terms of texture: There's a lushness to TLJ that contrasts the sobering leanness of TFA's aesthetics. Still, a great deal of TFA's score is given a kind of '2.0' update throughout TLJ. Parts of the new material are also very much contingent on the established new (TFA) themes, to a degree I find really impressive, compositionally. The theme that is varyingly attributed to Luke, Holdo or the Island, is actually a development of Rey's fanfare (the one often played by celeste, harp and vibes), and "The Rebellion is Reborn", save for Rose's theme, is essentially a deconstruction/reconstruction of the other themes and motifs pertaining to the Resistance. I'm sure there's lots more to discover!

I actually didn’t mind the force theme while watching the film because I think it’s largely appropriate when used, even for the instances where it sorta doesn’t apply like Finn’s speech at the beginning of The Battle of Crait. On album, it gets a little tiresome, but, nonetheless I love the variations in “The Last Jedi” and “Peace and Purpose,” the latter being one of the most moving renditions Williams has yet written.

After reading all of this, I'm almost hesitant to say I actually... loved the movie? A few things: - I agree that the Finn/Rose subplot could've been shorter, however in its defense it nuanced the whole good vs. evil conflict, highlighting this decadent society that couldn't care less about the outcome of the war, and DJ is pretty much an extension of that (although not so necessary). Plus it gives a bit of Rose's backstory. I can see how it fits in the movie conceptually, but its execution is not perfect. However, it provides some awesome Williams music and I loved how Canto Bight really felt alive. For me it didn't detract from the movie enormously. - Luke's end felt very poignant to me, even more when I watched it the second time. Very emotional climax. I'm sure he'll be around as a force ghost in ep. IX. - Speaking of that, I really hope we'll get a brief explanation about Snoke's origin in IX, perhaps in relation to the Knights of Ren. Didn't Andy Serkis say he was fully informed about his background? Otherwise I'm totally fine with him killed off. - Also about the rise of the First Order etc. that was discussed a few pages ago, I think it makes sense to have similar consecutive wars with a few decades inbetween... I mean, look at history of our actual world. But it is a pity that JJ excluded the explanation of it all in TFA, I must say.

I've decided that the worst thing about the first 30 seconds of "The Fathiers" is that it doesn't go for longer. I challenge anyone to listen to it and not crack a smile.

I'm probably one of the few who enjoys "The Cave" track. I love Williams goes into a dark/moody/scary mode. I love the statement of Rey's theme, too. I think this track could end up on the FYC with no problem. :40 gives me POA vibes.

I'm still just totally blown away by the opening cue. Surely top 2 for Star Wars openings ever? You can tell Williams is having way too much fun playing with his older themes right from the start. It really redefines the way people will look at TFA, when they realise the themes were never meant to mature or really develop throughout that film, bar Rey and Poe. We all just expected another prequel scenario where he jettisons most of the older themes. Wonder if the short turnaround played a role here. Less than twelve months between finishing TFA and starting TLJ.

It's ok, at this stage we're all becoming nourished by the tears of the haters. The more you hate on this film and score the more I love it.

dear god, that motif might be the most exciting, most Star Wars-y fanfare punch-the-air-fuck-yeah moment I've heard single the original trilogy. I can't state how much I love it, and when I think that it couldn't get any better it just builds to a crescendo - simply sublime. TLJ is what I always wanted from a new Star Wars score. I wanted for it to sound fresh, exciting, propulsive and energetic but still just ooze Star Wars - and TLJ delivers on all those fronts for me. even the more I listen to Rose's theme in the concert suite 'The Rebellion is Reborn' it sounds like it could've easily been written for the OT, particularly how its treated so innocently instrumentation wise like Luke's theme - talk about a revitalisation! I'd also like to draw attention to how much the end of 'The Spark' is what I so wanted that TFA was missing in that parade grounds sequence. where the music just goes so beautifully bombastic and dramatic to really heighten the sequence, and the building nature of it reminds me of a combination of the unreleased music for the parade grounds as well as the 'Chamber of Secrets' cue from well, the Chamber of Secrets. I just know I'm in for a treat when my first experience of the score is positive and my love for it just keeps building on-top of that, what a great time to be a fan of John Williams!

The Fathiers is amazing. The horns and strings Q and A in the beginning of it was just fantastic. VERY swashbuckling. And of course, Rose's theme weaved into it made it that much better. So fitting for that scene.

I just returned from the film so have lots of thoughts... * I loved the surprises and action sequences and the whole Luke the badass sequence at the end. * I was hoping for a touching sendoff of Leia. She really looked quite old and tired here but I couldn't tell if that was her character or the person since we know she died after filming. I wish they could have written in a memorable sendoff. Some of Luke's dialog seemed to be a sendoff to her but the film didn't use it that way. * Score was very good and full of memorable moments while sounding like an updated version of Star Wars music utilizing previous fingerprints and themes but fragmenting them or making them generally feel altered. It certainly doesn't sound "fresh" the way the original trilogy sounded but feels like it is cut from the same cloth. I wouldn't have minded trumpets being a bit more prominent in the mix (like Star Wars A New Hope). * I thought the film took quite a few risks which is nice since The Force Awakens is generally criticized for being too safe. The film had some humorous lines but could have gone further. Granted that C3PO and R2D2 had virtually no interaction but it would have been very characteristic to have Luke call him 3PO as a nickname since they haven't seen each other in decades and have C3PO be so joyful to see R2 and then immediately resort to pettiness which is part of his character. * The new characters needed more memorable quirks. Despite all Lucas's failures as a storyteller, he did know how to create memorable characters. Rain Johnson should take a page or two from Lucas here. * It took Vice Admiral Holdo quite a while to intervene when the remaining resistance fleet was getting decimated. Not very heroic with that sort of pacing. * To me, I thought the fact that Luke was a hologram at the end was a bit of a cheap shot. If he was going to die after the hologram, why not have him killed Obi Wan style? That would have really set up Kylo Ren as far more evil than just a young boy...he killed the two great original heroes AND Snoke! What a far better set up for a confrontation with a final Rey who has no jedi mentor. * The rebels are so fragmented, there is no real alliance however the film ends with a clue that the young will be the next generation of rebels. Perhaps that is how they will deal with Carrie Fischer's death? Maybe episode IX is years later after the rebels have rebuilt? * How do these armies finance their weaponry? Wars are financed. You can't afford to rebuild battleships that you lose so easily at each skirmish. Maybe this is someone explained in a book or something. There is a point where it no longer is believable. * Why didn't Snoke sense the light saber was going to kill him? This of course requires that he sensed Kylo's motives which he missed. So he wasn't really a dark jedi who had jedi skills though he could generally master Kilo Ren and Rey mentally and physically? * It is still possible that Rey's parents are more important in the grand scheme of things (like Harry Potter's parents). It isn't really needed in the story to have Rey's parents be noones. Snoke said he manipulated the visions they both had so that might have been the vision that he made Kylo ren have to manipulate Rey. * So both armies have been decimated. Is episode IX going to be fought with the force and sticks and stones? * The film did drag during the casino sequence. Needs to be trimmed by about 10 minutes mostly during that sequence. Similarly, did this film have a few too many endings ala The Lord of the Rings The The Return of the King? * One thing I didn't quite buy, the mop boy at the end dreams of the resistance but he is not oppressed by the first order/empire. He is oppressed by capitalist profiteers so it didn't quite make his longing to join the fight ring true.

I have seen Star Wars, Episode VIII: The Last Jedi three times. I intend to see it an additional three times in the course of the film's theatrical run. Not only was this another outstanding chapter in the saga, the Maestro has once again has out done himself. Upon first viewing, I recognized five new themes. There is Rose's theme, a motif for Admiral Holdo, the music for Canto Bight, a motif associated with the island on Ahch-To, and a motif associated with the student/teacher dynamic between Rey and Luke. There is also a lot of new musical passages, particularly in the action sequences. Not to mention outstanding variations of past themes. Phenomenal.

No, the prequels are still much worse.

WTF! I'm sorry you don't like the score, I really am, but many others do like it and hear a lot of great things in it. To say he is somehow dying is a massive overreaction.

There are two ways of ranking these: one on originality and new themes and two on pure listening experience. Obviously, it does not do all that great with the first standard. However, on the second it does very well. The versions of the MofR are better in this movie than in VIII. The force theme is better than most. Kylos theme is better than in VIII. Poes is the same. Even Luke and Leia is just as good. Rey's theme is good, though not as good as VII. Add full-throttled action, and a couple new themes to boot, and you have a very powerful listening experience.

THIS! is so awesome idea! The magnificent Resistance!

Since this score seems to have been made specifically for this thread I guess I'll get started with a few of my favourite examples: 2:33 - 2:40: Love the plucked strings and clarinets in the background, such a cool effect! 1:27 - 1:47: Awesome statement of Rose's theme of course, but what I find particularly interesting here is the subtle use of dissonance in the background, as if the music is fighting its way upward through rubble. Listen out for the slightly awkward chords in the brass from 1:28, the "intentionally" messy rushing strings between 1:35-1:37, and the note clashes in the brass from 1:38. All this shouldn't work...but it does, and not only does it work but it improves it too!

Yeah and when the force was used, he quoted the force theme. Mental.

I reaaaallllly loved that detail. It’s the kind of thing you often see in ancient mythologies. These tiny misunderstandings that lead to cosmic consequences.

Why don't they just release the complete score to begin with? Could you imagine the moaning Thor would do if they did?

And yeah, the last minute of The Spark has to be the most perfect combination of visuals, direction and music Williams has been involved with for well over a decade. I can't even describe how I felt watching this sequence unfold, after the most heartbreaking reappearance of Luke & Leia (first time in 34 years!). There is just no other living composer who could've written anything better for that scene; utter perfection right down to the last note. To say the entire crowd was in awe watching this sequence would be an understatement. The level of engrossment in the theater was palpable, due in no small part to the music. I don't recall a single moment in TFA, not even Solo's death, with this level of filmic aspiration. Probably the only thing from TFA that comes close, so far as perfect synergy between music and images, would be Jedi Steps? I just really wish they found a way to cut down that middle act, because the film grinds to a halt for half an hour. They should've removed that entire Del Toro/Canto Bight subplot and had Rose/Finn break into the Supremacy straight away. It was also a huge mistake, in a film with only two main story threads, to have such a static and helpless plotline. The characters are basically stranded and incapable of doing anything for about 90 minutes, which really deflates the drama. I kept thinking, 'get on with it,' which is never a good sign for your pacing.

There's piano in the TESB score.

F*** me the first track of TLJ is amazing. Didn't care for it much at all at first but now I can't get enough of it. Those "March of the Resistance" quotes especially. Amazing stuff. I'm starting to unlock this thing after a disappointing first few listens and it's great.

I made custom covers by characters.