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    • Jay

      Donation time at JWFan   01/16/18


      For those who may not know, JWFan relies entirely on donations to keep running.  Donations pay for our server bills, as well as keeping our domain and Invision Powerboard fees.
      As an incentive to donate, I am offering a series of free CDS to anyone who donates over a certain amount!   Last time this was a modest success, where I raised $500 of our desired $1,000 and mailed out 3 free CDs to lucky JWFanners.  This time I'll be doing the raffling a littler different!   Our goal is $1000 once again, and I will have four tiers of free CDs you can win once again.  But this time, the more you donate, the more entries into each raffle you'll get!   Each $10 you donate gets your name put into the raffle mug once for the $10 pool, twice for the $20 pool, thrice for the $30 pool, and five times into the $50 pool.  Here is the list of CDs you can win - and I have more to add at a later time when I get a little more organized (I'll post what they are by Friday at the latest)   The $10 pool (Every $10 you donate gets you one ticket into this pool) - will be drawn as soon as we hit $250 donated Tyler Bates - God of War; Ascension (OST, La La Land Records) Danny Elfman - Planet of the Apes (OST, Sony) Danny Elfman - Taking Woodstock (OST, La La Land Records) Christopher Lennertz - Identity Thief (OST, La La Land Records) Christopher Lennertz - Medal of Honor: Rising Sun (OST) Michael Giacchino - Mission: Impossible - Ghost Protocol (OST, Varese Sarabande) Dave Holmes & Various - Ocean's 11 (OST, WB Records) Joel McNeely & Various - Hollywood '94 (Varese Sarabande) Joe Kraemer - Jack Reacher (OST, La La Land Records) John Williams - Born on the Fourth of July (OST, MCA Records)   The $20 pool (Every $10 you donate gets you two ticket into this pool, must donate at least $20 to be eligible) - will be drawn as soon as we hit $500 donated John Barry - First Love (La La Land) Jerry Goldsmith - The Challenge (La La Land) Jerry Goldsmith - In Harm's Way (2009 Intrada edition) Jerry Goldsmith - The Red Pony (Varese) Alan Silvestri - Dutch (La La Land) Shirley Walker - Willard (La La Land) John Williams - Family Plot (Varese Sarabande) or, any of the above CDs if you prefer   The $30 pool (Every $10 you donate gets you three ticket into this pool, must donate at least $30 to be eligible) - will be drawn as soon as we hit $750 donated James Horner - Gorky Park (OOP Kritzerland Edition) James Newton Howard - Outbreak (2CD, Varese Deluxe Edition) Laurence Rosenthal - Clash of the Titans (2CD, Intrada) John Williams - The Fury (2CD, La La Land) John Williams - Jane Eyre (OOP, La La Land) or, any of the above CDs if you prefer   The $50 pool (Every $10 you donate gets you five ticket into this pool, must donate at least $50 to be eligible) - will be drawn as soon as we hit $1,000 donated Jerry Fielding - The Wild Bunch (3CD, FSM) Ira Newborn - The Naked Gun trilogy (3CD, La La Land) Shirley Walker and Various - Batman: The Animated Series Volume 3 (4CD, La La Land) or, any of the above CDs if you prefer     All shipping will be paid by me to anywhere in the world!   I will pull names from a hat for each pool, and you get to pick whatever CD set you want if I pull your name!   To be eligible, leave your JWFan username in the comments area of your donation.  If you want to donate but not be in the running for a free CD, mention that in the comment.   Use this link or the link on the mainpage.       Thank you!   Jason, Ricard, and Andreas.


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Everything posted by TGP

  1. Williams confirms EPISODE IX !!

    Marcus is also an excellent forum composer.
  2. Williams confirms EPISODE IX !!

    I don't really get into specifics about myself on here, but the gist of what I've let slip over the years is that I'm trained as a composer, that I scrounge what I can from various musical jobs - nothing special - but that I am really only able to survive thanks to the patronage of my revered and very succesful Mrs. Pilgrim.
  3. Williams confirms EPISODE IX !!

    No I just have the chance on occasion.
  4. Williams confirms EPISODE IX !!

    Cheers indeed, my northern friend! Who knew, Wagner, the great unifier.... I was never especially enamored of opera, or of conducting, but the few big moments I've had as a musician, both as a student and "professional," have involved conducting operas. Go figure. It's growing on me. My bucket list is Parsifal, Adams' Doctor Atomic, several Glass operas, and Gounod's Faust. I'd also love to do Debussy's Pelleas again. I conducted a production in college. The director (a fellow female student) and I decided to swap the genders of the three leads. This absolutely annoyed some professors and students for various musical and non musical reasons. We just thought it was hot. And I think we were chuffed to already have a skandalkonzert of our own under our belts so early on.
  5. Williams confirms EPISODE IX !!

    I would love to do Parsifal someday.
  6. Williams confirms EPISODE IX !!

    I never really had Wagner mania or felt so strongly about him. But last year I led a performance of Tannhauser and it was one of the greatest experiences of my life. There is a time and place where Wagner is better than everything, I'll say that much.
  7. Williams confirms EPISODE IX !!

    Nick, you also make a good point about the parallels between what some people have to say about Shore, and what some people have to say about Williams. These levels of musical snobbery are equally distasteful. Film music fans can ill afford to fight amongst themselves when the whole art form is derided by another echelon of twits altogether!
  8. Williams confirms EPISODE IX !!

    This is where you get into trouble. You want to present a "like what you like, it's all ok!" attitude, but this reads more like "most people like unsophisticated music." And the notion that it's because he can't is just baseless, really - contrary to his own words about limiting the harmonic scope of the scores, and not held up by some of his other music which can be harmonically quite outlandish and adventurous - Spider, The Brood, Naked Lunch, Scanners...this would just be a small taster. It is these slight hints of derision, ever so slight, that I think gets people rightfully argumentative, and it's why this subject always comes up.
  9. Williams confirms EPISODE IX !!

    Are you still on this? I think it was sorted out cleanly and reasonably, but if you want to keep sniping and doing the "I hurt your feelings didn't I?" thing, that is your prerogative.
  10. Williams confirms EPISODE IX !!

    Perhaps not in your case, but when this is the tone adopted, and it sometimes is, I just reply in kind. If an argument doesn't convince me or seems contrived, well, what would you have me do? And I don't believe Conrad Pope gets a pass for anything. It is my conviction that he made some misjudgments on the Hobbit scores, or at least was directed to. Prejudices against musical styles, certain composers, these are all alive and well whether or not you've seen them. It can hit close to home too - I recall some truly heinous reactions to one of Marcus' pieces a few years back.
  11. Williams confirms EPISODE IX !!

    Exactly what I meant - it is much less to do with basic craft than it is some more ephemeral thing I dread to refer to so lazily as talent.
  12. Williams confirms EPISODE IX !!

    Yeah, didn't say there isn't merit to knowing everything you can - my point was that you should, but that Hollywood composers can't really be assessed on what they know through what they write. I'm no lover of Giacchino's music, but I suspect he would manage the tests you propose. With most of these guys, the shortcomings are at a much higher level. And usually, inconsistent. And not of much consequence anyway if you still enjoy what they do.
  13. Williams confirms EPISODE IX !!

    It isn't really a problem of knowledge in all but a few cases. Sadly, how much, say, Michael Giacchino knows about Xenakis or Murail will serve him little in current Hollywood. Zimmer, who has a laudably deep and eclectic musical knowledge, can also expect to be gently dismissed if deviating too far outside the lines. But this is different from Shore deliberately crafting a particular archaic soundworld which, complaints about "proper" orchestration be damned, is staggeringly right in its execution.
  14. Williams confirms EPISODE IX !!

    I've mentored a number of younger composers who know very much about the old ways. Don't let anyone tell you it is a dying art, or dying knowledge. And don't let the bland demands placed on modern film music convince you of that, either.
  15. Williams confirms EPISODE IX !!

    Lack of curiosity? No, it is precisely a greater curiosity that results in treating the orchestra as a rock solid unit with different shades of coloration in different ranges, which is more imaginative than what a more vanilla orchestrator would default to. Your likening of it to Bruckner is very astute I think, since his treatment of the orchestra as an organ to be registered is very similar. Bruckner was written off for that reason by some. I expect time will yield better judgement about it all from some parties. And I wouldn't at all say that it is an endless list of conductors who butcher the music. Primarily it is Pope who has provided the most visible example, and some others. Wicki, and any who approach the music looking for true understanding, render it just fine, but some just aren't inclined to see beyond their own way of viewing things. Then, performances, and opinions, suffer. Whatever repertoire they handle means nothing. If there is a stubbornness, a prejudice, it will prevail over professional urges to tackle, or assess, something with integrity. How often is it that conductors and musicians are faced with a work they don't like, don't respect, for whatever reason, and consequently give something less than everything to it? I've witnessed it quite a bit, especially, interestingly enough, with older music that is more orchestrally akin to Shore's. That highlights the main point I want to make. Musicians of all stripes can be immensely catty about things. It's unbecoming, unprofessional, embarrassing. If I go on about this subject gratuitously, and with a certain impatience, it is a result of the childish demeanor that I've witnessed from so many "professionals" over the years. Perhaps I'm conditioned to see that everywhere, even on a forum discussion about Star Wars and Tolkien. Whenever someone decries the "shortcomings" of something like Shore's work, it sets all the usual alarm bells off in my mind of someone who, intentionally or not, maliciously or not, consciously or not, has some prejudice or pretension guiding them against the thing in question, rather than some honest musical estimation. Because in my honest musical estimation, the complaints just never hold water and amount only to "I don't really like this music." But, I see that the JWFan mob is more interested in the complaints, and not the questions about how much sense they truly make.
  16. Williams confirms EPISODE IX !!

    When speaking of musical clarity, I would have to frankly say that Williams, by nature of his more dense style, is more guilty of violating that than Shore is. There is sometimes a pile up of mid and low textural elements that come across as overwrought and redundant. I do wonder at times if there is too much of that need to always give as many players as possible something to do in his mind. Would that musicians were on average a little more patient and willing to see themselves as a part of a whole, so this appeasement strategy would never have developed. This is mostly something I notice in more recent scores like WOTW, Minority Report, and even the sublime AI. Doesn't detract from my enjoyment of them one bit.
  17. Williams confirms EPISODE IX !!

    At any rate, this has all been discussed over and over throughout the years, and everyone still says the same exact things no matter what anyone else has to say to the contrary. Doesn't matter, ultimately, none of it. Dark is life, dark is death.
  18. Williams confirms EPISODE IX !!

    Anyone with the most basic understanding of the orchestra can do these things. I hope this isn't what Marcus is using as a baseline for "skill," because that would be rather unimaginative. Shore breaks some rules and does some unusual things. The point is that there's a reason for it, and it works exactly as intended. You cannot view these two composers through the same textural lens. Let me put it this way. John Williams' way of orchestrating is masterful, but it is not the only way. It is not the only road, and it isn't the end of its own road. It is somewhat frightening to see people like Pope and others talk this way about it, as though when John dies, that'll be the end of good music. It's bizarre, wrong, and just unhealthy.
  19. Williams confirms EPISODE IX !!

    Now you see the wisdom in calling him boring. I have demonstrated my point by placing him on the receiving end of criticism from a stranger!
  20. Williams confirms EPISODE IX !!

    You're on about this fallacious "Shore isn't a particularly skillful orchestrator" thing again, and I think it's incredibly misguided. What is your benchmark for something not particularly skillful? Is it simply "unidiomatic?" Not constant fun for every single player of the orchestra? The latter is something to bear in mind but ultimately shouldn't be fretted about at the expense of the musical vision, and the former is very much the point of the way he orchestrates and to chalk it up to a question of skill is unfair, I think. I hear an incredible deliberate creativity in how he orchestrates, setting him quite apart from many other composers who would follow more vanilla procedures. What I will agree to is that few other conductors seem able to achieve the fine balances that this unconventional writing sometimes demands. Conrad Pope, for all his great contributions with some composers, utterly botched his ventures into Middle Earth out of a lack of understanding for the material, and I hesitate to say it, but perhaps also a lack of respect for it and a resultant arrogance leading to those "rectifications" you mention. His conducting and orchestrating are both very subpar in this case, and I think are contributing factors to the failure of those films.
  21. Williams confirms EPISODE IX !!

    You've misunderstood. Rapport has nothing to do with expressing an opinion, but it does have something to do with showing up in a thread and criticizing another member for their posting habits, however repetitive. It is a pet peeve of mine when people do this on here. I think you should establish some familiarity with people before you decide you want to snark out on them. And please spare me this "fee fees" business and defending Howard etc. That's a bit too far in the direction of immature even for me.
  22. The "I miss Disco Stu" thread

    It's mostly the infrequent but noticable posters, that's why. People who've shown up mostly for Star Wars but are hanging around to make pointless comments elsewhere. I don't want to see that stuff when looking at new postings, it's just a waste of time.
  23. Williams confirms EPISODE IX !!

    But it's one of those people who post infrequently, about one thing, who has no rapport with anyone here, and who comes in with the guns of self righteousness and indignation blazing. The line must drawn here. This far, no farther.
  24. The "I miss Disco Stu" thread

    Well double dumb ass on you!