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Everything posted by Datameister

  1. I don't think I've ever really noticed JP sounding any better in the film than on album - I think the OST mix sounds pretty fantastic - but ESB is a very different case. The SE releases were not handled with the technical finesse they would have received today. I'm probably telling you stuff you already know, but the ESB SE album actually jumps back and forth between material based on Eric Tomlinson's original film mixes and new (at the time) remixes by Brian Risner. The Imperial March is one of the remixes. If I were to make a sweeping generalization, the biggest difference film-vs-album difference in a recording's sound is going to be the reverb. Film mixes are often relatively dry...not much reverberation. Album mixes invariably feature more reverb, whether introduced artificially or by introducing more of the room sound from more distant mics into the mix. Empire is pretty dry on the SE album, but if anything the film sounds dryer to me. If less reverb tends to be appealing to you, I'd guess you're going to tend to prefer film mixes.
  2. It's identical to the choral part at the end of the track "The Three Broomsticks" (AKA "Brief Snow Scene"). It's heard that way in the film...my assumption has always been that the choir was recorded separately, and that's what we're hearing.
  3. That one's always been really puzzling to me. The contrast you mentioned is just sublime!
  4. Yep. Rides, buildings, layout, landscaping, infrastructure...those take a lot of time and money to change, and the process is usually disruptive to the visitors' experience. Not so for changing a background music loop. These can and do change over the years. Even the most venerable, fundamentally unchanged area of Disneyland - Main Street - doesn't have the same loop it had just 10 years ago...and I don't believe the park opened with the loop before that, either. Who knows what Galaxy's Edge will sound like in a year, not to mention a decade or three.
  5. Does it still sound "off" to you if you listen to it on other equipment? I'm wondering if you've simply gotten used to the timing of the edit. In my experience, these sorts of segues sound more and more natural the more you listen to them.
  6. If you choose to create something for the general public, of course you'll never please everyone across the board, but there are plenty of films that haven't had this particular issue. Not playing to racial stereotypes isn't that hard. How do we gauge people's reaction? By listening to them. Same as anything else. You listen, you try to put yourself in their shoes as best you can, and you remind yourself that we all view the world from an incomplete and often distorted perspective. It's not tiptoeing; it's just caring about how your choices affect other people. These questions are hard. I think grappling with them is important. I also think the world needs a modern MM-produced Star Wars box set. I think we've both said our piece; shall we return to that discussion?
  7. Well there's an overreaction if I ever saw one. Yes, those kids are suffering from racial bias, because it's a scientifically established fact that most people do. It's often subtle, unintentional, and not something we have conscious awareness of, but it shows up in measurable ways. Generally speaking, it's cool if we find ways to reduce that, rather than increase it. But the perspective you're arguing against - that these nefarious filmmakers have singlehandedly ruined the lives of generations across the globe through this one film - is nowhere to be seen in this thread. Life isn't so black-and-white. These filmmakers surely meant well overall, and there's plenty in the film to enjoy. That doesn't preclude us from disagreeing with the social wrongs you yourself admit are also present. People aren't cleanly divided into completely non-racist paragons and awful racist bigots. Generally good people do bad shit sometimes. In the grand scheme of things, making a film that has the potential for contributing a bit to existing biases is far from the worst thing a person could do. But it still can cause some hurt. This isn't just retrospective, either. There was significant contemporary consternation from a lot of Indian people when this film was released. When people get hurt, it seems to me like the first thing you do is listen and try to understand their perspective.
  8. It's a fictional portrayal of a culture that never existed at any time. The wildly inaccurate portrayal of the Thugs isn't the only problem. The dinner scene is pretty cringe-worthy, too. And not because I'm grossed out, but because it's like, "Haha, look, Indians eat monkey brains and big-ass beetles, aren't they weird." That's the tone that comes across. I'm aware of some assertions that it was meant to be ironic - that they were only serving that food to make fun of their visitors' misconceptions - but I'm not entirely convinced that was the intention, nor do I think the final cut of the film reads that way at all. The villagers are certainly a lot more sympathetic, but they're just in the film briefly to set up the main adventure. I don't think they're the average moviegoer's main memory of the Indian people in the film. The big heroes are Indy and the British colonialists who save the day. Yikes. It's all well and good to write fiction, but a lot of people don't like being on the receiving end of that sort of othering, especially when it inflames existing stereotypes and injustices. Fiction helps subtly shape real-world attitudes. No one's going to start lowering people into pits of lava after watching a film like this because it's obviously wrong, but we've all got at least some degree of subconscious racial bias, and this sort of thing can subtly strengthen that, especially in the absence of substantive exposure to the culture being fictionalized. Anyway, yes, I believe the most recent information we have is that the full original recording of that suite is lost, @crumbs. It's too bad. I'd really like the whole thing to be on a future release.
  9. Do you not find that the film's most notable portrayals of Indian culture, cuisine, and religious practices are inaccurate and insulting? When you've got a group of people who've often been discriminated against or reduced to stereotypes, it seems pretty unhelpful to build your film around making them the cruel, grotesque "other." (This is where some people bring up the Nazis. But people chose - choose - to become part of that group, whose ideology is the very definition of grotesque cruelty.)
  10. As I recall, the post simply mentioned TOD having racial problems, which is true...or are you referring to another post?
  11. Sarcasm aside, obviously someone can see someone of a different race/gender/orientation/etc. and strongly empathize with them. We are all just people. That being said, if the vast majority of entertainment media around me had never featured many (or sometimes any) instances of sympathetic, capable characters who happened to be white/male/hetero/etc. like me, I can see how that would start to feel like something was wrong systemically, like there was a collective implication (even if completely inadvertent) that people who shared many of my traits were somehow "less than." Especially if in the real world I regularly experienced disrespectful behavior on the basis of those traits - or were at increased risk for violence because of them.
  12. Are y'all seriously making fun of folks who want everyone to feel represented in film? What is so wrong with that?
  13. I tend to be the same way with the juxtaposition of the main and end titles. Just keep 'em separate as bookends to the listening experience. Still disagreed on the TFA performance, though. It's not bad - but the snare always sounds a little off-beat to me, and I inexplicably hate the double cymbal crash in the first statement of the A theme. Maybe it's just all these years of hearing it only with the second statement, but it always sounds so weird to me there.
  14. Meh, if people want to try to create spiffy new versions, I say go for it - nothing inherently disrespectful about drawing inspiration from existing work and trying to create a new version using technology that didn't previously exist. I only get mad when these new versions are the only version I can watch. Sometimes I'll be curious to see a modern take on the VFX shots. More often, I'll want to see the film in its original form. All is well as long as I get a choice in the matter.
  15. I'm not sure how to counter that other than to say that...you're wrong. At least about the Concord release; I don't have the '81 OST, only the DCC and Concord albums. The map room cue is one of the worst offenders on the Concord - it's too fast, coming in very noticeably sharp. I'm not sure if it's an issue with your piano, the labeling of your albums, your sound system, and/or your ears, but that track isn't even close to matching standard 440 Hz tuning. On the other hand, the DCC version is close enough to A440 for my ears not to pick up on any significant difference. Without us being in the same room, listening to the exact same thing, I suppose it's pretty hard for either of us to convince the other of anything. But yes, the Concord album definitely has some significant speed/pitch issues, although they vary widely from track to track (and score to score).
  16. The original recording of the Raiders March gets pretty wonky rhythmically. I don't know what Maurice Murphy was on that day...but I actually really enjoy the off-kilter performance.
  17. I would pay big money for this. Even an album, for that matter. I love the way Williams' compositions sound through his own fingers. There's precious little of that available.
  18. I might give it a shot at some point - see my other post above for a few more examples off the top of my head. These definitely stick out to me in comparison to Williams' previous Star Wars MO. Each trilogy is of course going to have its own sonic identity, but neither ESB nor AOTC repeated material from their predecessors (other than the obvious main titles and credits). This is a very different sort of middle score.
  19. I really enjoy that track, although I will point out that this instance of the Force theme (while effective) is actually just a direct quote of one that was used in TFA - it was for when Rey and Kylo are grappling with their lightsabers slicing the ground. The version that was replaced by Burning Homestead is rather different.
  20. I have a hard time ranking the others relative to each other, but TLJ easily sits in last place for me. My chief problems with it are: The numerous moments when the score could just has easily have been replaced with its own temp track (Yoda's theme at the end of his scene, Rey's theme in the "following Luke" montage, the verbatim quotes from the TFA Snoke material and end credits in "Revisiting Snoke", the Force theme before the end credits, etc.). I know the majority of the score doesn't do this, but there are enough moments for it to feel like an unpleasant pattern. For a film that's so explicitly intent on letting the past die, it sure elicited the most backward-looking Star Wars score we've gotten so far. A lot of the quieter underscore. It's just vaguely irksome to me. Not sure why. I'm thinking of stuff like "Who Are You?" and "The Cave." On the other hand, it gave us the delightful "Canto Bight" and some pretty terrific action music. I really like the way most of the third act is scored in general. And the orchestra sounds better to me than in TFA. But to say that the competition is fierce would be an understatement. The 7 scores that precede TLJ are among my top favorites. I'd have to be over the moon about this score for it to even compete, and I'm not. There are specific parts that I'm over the moon about, but there are a lot of others that are frankly disappointing to me.
  21. I've often thought of doing that, though I've never actually gotten around to it.
  22. I thought the Concord set sounded great, other than the speed issues, which are correctable. My only real issue with that set is that there's still a lot of music missing. These types of scores - exciting, variegated, multi-thematic, endlessly interesting - are the ones where my completism just goes into overdrive. I want every single cue recorded, period. We're nearly there with Raiders, but the other two are disappointingly abridged even in that expansion. A release that presented all three scores in great sound quality without omitting any music would be just dandy.
  23. The main title is easy for me: the raw and gutsy original, with the refined and precise TPM in a close second. Butthe end titles are tricky because the composition itself changes so much from film to film. Are we talking purely in terms of performance? It sounds that way to me. If so, it probably goes again to ANH/Star Wars for me. If we're talking overall enjoyment, factoring in the entire end title cue, ESB and TFA give it a run for its money.
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