DolceMecha

I love this cue so much. The opening chords are like a warm breath of wind on a summer evening.
 
 

Sigh. At least we got a cool unreleased cue for that moment, very Lawrence of Arabia.
 
Williams is always saving these films from their own lack of internal logic.

As other members here have already stated in one way or another, one big thing these sequel scores have going for them over the OT and PT entries is the actual development of character themes over an entire trilogy.
 
It's a lot of fun going back and reading through our discussion threads for TLJ and seeing how, while some were expecting and hoping for Williams to pull a Shore and really advance and build upon the themes he had laid out in TFA, many were, understandably, expecting for Williams to do what he usually did with his sequel scores: revisit old themes through brief and limited renditions (perhaps with the occasional surprising variation here and there) but with largely no development, all while the new thematic material took center stage as the older stuff got relegated to the backseat. 

Which, again, was a logical assumption to make! That was the approach Williams used for The Lost World, that's how he handled things with the Potter sequels, that's largely how he handled character themes in his prior Star Wars films. Outside of the scope of the film that saw that theme being introduced, Williams never really seemed to have the desire to advance old themes for characters when there was new music to develop and focus on. 
 
The first time we hear Leia's theme in the OT and the last time we hear it in the OT. It goes out with a super brief rendition. Hardly seems like the last time you will be hearing it in the saga. 
The first time we hear Han and Leia's theme in the OT, the the last time we hear it in the OT. Nothing really has dramatically changed about it. 
The first time we hear Vader's theme in the OT, Vader isn't even on-screen and it's introduced uncharacteristically by woodwinds. It's concluded usage in the OT is in a very similar, albeit much softer, way. 
First time we hear Anakin's theme in the PT, last time we hear it in the PT. It's cold and distant in the end, a noticeable departure from how it was introduced. However, with the theme itself having been only a cameo appearance in the last 2 films of the PT, such a departure can't really be characterized as real tangible development, more of a brief alteration to match the character's new head-space as the theme itself isn't even synonymous with Anakin, only his childlike state. 
 
And the list goes on and on. Character themes within Star Wars had largely gotten cool variations here and there but no real conscious development as connected to the characters said themes were attached to. 
 
But with the ST, things are remarkably different. Rey's theme is first heard in TFA in a way that very much hearkens to the idea of someone who is just beginning their journey while also expressing the loneliness and perhaps lost nature that someone currently finds themselves in in searching for greater purpose. We last hear the theme in a way very suggestive of the completion of a journey and of someone who has matured through the events they have experienced. The theme concludes, like the character, in a way far different than how it started. Poe's theme goes through a similar metamorphosis also perfectly in line with his character growth, first heard in a way that perfectly embodies Poe's daring and hot shot nature at the start of the ST before last being heard in a way more befitting now of "Poe the leader" than "Poe the pilot." Those final thematic statements mean something this go around and are utilized by Williams as an opportunity to highlight character change. 
 
And Kylo Ren's theme, perhaps the best example, is introduced as this. It's huge, it's powerful, it's commanding of attention. This is someone to fear. By the end of the very next film, the theme has changed to match the evolved state of the character. His theme has more structured orchestral backing now, akin to the new First Order army he now has complete control over as Supreme Leader. The denser state of the rendition gives the theme more direction and clarity to its statement, similar to the sureness the character has now acquired throughout the film. By the very last film, it concludes by being used like this, this and this. You could not be more removed from the initial usage. It's now light, hopeful, very much a theme for a character of good. Kylo's theme, as a result, may be the most developed theme in all of Star Wars. This is not to dismiss all the wonderful variations of the Force theme we got across the 9 films, nor to ignore the unique permutations that Luke's theme has undergone. 
 
But as far as living up to the true purpose of a character theme, a recurrent musical idea associated with and fully representative of a particular person, Kylo's theme takes the cake. Every significant beat and change in that character feels like it is marked by a concurrent beat or change in his theme. 
 
I'm certainly not trying to critique or criticize one approach to theme usage over the other. Rather, I'm just trying to make the point that it seems like Williams went into this trilogy with the very conscious and deliberate choice to try a different approach with how he dealt with character themes (and sequel scores in general). He seems to treat them with a reverence he had normally forgone when doing scores to sequels in the past, reprising them unabashedly in new ways that connect with how the characters themselves are changing.  
 
As I started out saying, in trying to compare and contrast these 3 new scores over the other two trilogies, one way that this trilogy does stack up undeniably better (IMO) than the other ones is in character thematic development. Had Williams been able to go into these 3 films with a clear roadmap of where each character was going, he could have potentially capitalized on that approach even further, but I think he did a damn fine job despite that.
 
Sorry for the long-winded post. This is all pretty much stuff that has already been said in one way or another alongside fairly obvious observations that I'm sure most noticed and thought about, but I wanted to verbalize these thoughts nonetheless. 

it's like Sherzo for Motorcycle and Orchestra or Whirl through the Academy

Please allow me to randomly enter the conversation, just to say that I listened to Diagon Alley and Quidditch from the Children's Suite, then the television commercial and the finale from HP2. Feeling really nostalgic and incredibly grateful to have this fantastic set now. 2020 will be a year full of magic.

It's grown on me these past few days. Really, almost every new piece by a composer or musician I'm a fan of initially feels like an outsider, like it doesn't quite belong ala the new kid in town. But after a certain amount of listens, those new pieces cement themselves in my mind as part of the repertoire. I made a playlist of "nice" Williams pieces such as "Jurassic Park Theme", "Back to America", "Marion's Theme", "A New Beginning", the Star Wars love themes, and some pieces from Ann-Sophie Mutter's CD. and I added "The Rise of Skywalker" and "Farewell" to it multiple times so they would play more often. Last night, I went for a long winter walk listening to that plat list. It definitely now sounds like it belongs on a Williams set list. I had the list playing on random, and I found myself hoping one of the new pieces would come up next. 

My gift to you this holiday season. Here's my Fantasy End Credit suite of The Rise of Skywalker end title. I truly disliked the Finale cue on the album so my goal was to fix it by trying my best to eliminate as much previously established themes and only use new Rise of Skywalker themes and music in the suite.

I hope you enjoy! IMO, this is a much more satisfying finale then what Williams gave to us on the album and in the film.
 
 
 

The bittersweet, fall-of-innocence tone of the Rise of Skywalker suite reflects the fall of innocence of Star Wars itself, its heart now lost to the cash-grab motives and mishandling that have characterised Episodes 7 and 9.
 
Discuss!

I get that JW can throw in whatever new themes he likes into appropriate points of the film. For me, the addition of this theme into an otherwise-scattered action cue reflects the larger issues of the score and the film. There's an extra theme here when existing themes aren't used in obvious places they could be, and in the wider film there is a new 'Rise' theme used in plenty of places where existing leitmotif would probably have the greater impact. All in all the score to TROS seems to be an accumulation of existing transposed themes from before, a few new, unnoticable themes that the plot or character development didn't call for (and are not served by), and lots of scattered action music or meandering underscore.
 
This all reflects the film itself: lacking any core identity, solid plot progression or decent character development. It throws in the new without developing it, or giving the required gravitas or development to the old.
 
Personally I think JW was on autopilot for this one. He saw the cut of the film, thought it was a mess, and duly scored it sufficiently from scene-to-scene (because the film feels like a fast sequences of scenes), but could not use his music to lift it above what was written, filmed and edited. That's why we got a couple of concert pieces, and those new themes threaded thinly throughout, with just-enough working of existing themes (most notably Rey's).

It would've been nice had Rose accompanied them on their journey to Pasaana, especially as a lighthearted foil to both Finn and Poe. 
 
Zori Bliss is another example of 'quick sob story in exposition scene = full-fledged character' which is so sloppy and cheap this late in the game. Although I liked the way in which they introduce the village she's in, which is reminiscent of WW2, with the stormtroopers searching the houses.

Well JJ had to make room for such memorable new characters as... Zorro Blass. And Jannah someone. And Dominic Monaghan! All playing vitally important characters that left no room for the existing ones to have any sort of closure or relevance in the narrative.

People found it weird that one of the main new characters of the previous film was abandoned too!

As crazy and fast-paced as they were, I absolutely loved the first 2 or 3 minutes of this film. Even though it's mostly just a very quick montage, the film felt normally paced and there is a confidence to how gung-ho it chooses to be starting out that I think is never really felt again for the rest of the movie. There was something very satisfying about just immediately hopping into the story, almost in a way like the film was saying "whether you like or hate the direction we chose to go in, we're going for a ride so you best buckle in." 

And obviously the music comes in to great effect here to help with that, but I really have to especially highlight this moment in 0:55 to 1:28 of the FYC Prologue track. When I first heard those quick little string lines in the film at the start after Kylo grabs the Wayfinder and sets out for Exegol, I assumed it was gonna be just a brief little idea that Williams would voice before moving on to something else because it seems like that has more or less been his style when having to deal with these quicker and faster cut action pieces as of late. It's something that really annoys me at times because there will be a fun little phrase he'll throw in and it'll be gone as soon as it was introduced and I'm left just wishing he had chosen to spend a little more time with that idea before moving on. As a result, I really got a thrill out of hearing in the theater Williams just choosing to keep building and building upon those string lines. I kept waiting for him to pull back and cease the momentum but he just continues to double down and ramp up the intensity. Felt very Anderton's Great Escape which I loved. 
 
I also appreciate how Williams doesn't even just leave it as this fun little action moment to get things going, instead even going so far as to throw-in that little Anthem of Evil statement in there at the start.
 
There's just something about how well Williams captures the energy of what is happening on the screen with those 30 seconds and how sprightly the music is during that sequence that really got the blood pumping. The music and film seemed to be perfectly in-sync and, for one of the few times in the movie, that feeling of obtaining information faster than you could process worked in favor of the film, making for a really great opening in my eyes. 
 
I don't know. It's nothing SUPER special, but there's just something about that section of the music I really like. This score is good. 

It's nice, but no chills. Guess I have no heart. Yoda's theme just makes no sense. 

Does it strike anyone else as an obvious oversight to reveal that big podrace stadium full of Sith fans and not have them chanting "Korah, Ratama..."?  For twenty years, whenever I heard the opening of "Duel of the Fates," I've been picturing some ancient, insidious cult ritual, and now that's literally what we get onscreen, and the theme is MIA.  If I'm JJ, that's the first request I make in the spotting session.

The attention to detail being paid to the score by so many people in this thread is amazing. I saw the film last night and I couldn’t keep track of all the moments where I heard music I loved but not found on the OST or FYC.
 
For now, I’ll say that I adore how Rey’s theme on piano (from The Force is with you; OST) was saved for the moment after Palpatine drains her and the camera is on her lifeless face. It was a magical use of color for an important and poignant moment.

So by my calculations, there's almost 45 minutes of unreleased music heard in the final film, though it's still unclear how much of that is old recordings tracked in...
 
(Apologies to mobile phone users, this chart only looks right on a desktop or tablet.... if you are on mobile, turning your phone sideways helps somewhat)
 

# Title Length   On FYC? Length   On OST? Length   Unreleased 1 Main Title 1:26         01A [0:00-1:26] Fanfare and Prologue 1:26     2 Prologue 1 0:12         tracked in from TFA's "Starry Night"       0:38   01A [0:00-0:36] Prologue 0:36   02B [1:02-1:40] Journey to Exegol 0:38     0:20   01A [0:36-0:56] Prologue 0:20   02D [2:13-2:33] Journey to Exegol 0:20     0:32   01B [0:56-1:28] Prologue 0:32           0:10   01C [1:28-1:37] Prologue 0:09   01C [1:45-1:52] Fanfare and Prologue 0:07     0:08   01D [1:37-end] Prologue 0:08           3 Prologue 2 0:13               0:13 0:06         01E [2:52-2:58] Fanfare and Prologue 0:06     0:34               0:34 4 Prologue 3 0:06               0:06 0:17         02C [1:56-2:13] Journey to Exegol 0:17     0:53               0:53 5 Falcon Flight 2:22   02 Falcon Flight 2:22           6 The Training Course 2:10               2:10 7 Rey and Leia 0:49               0:49 8 Intel 1:58               1:58 9 We Go Together 2:33   03 We Go Together 2:10   09A [0:00-2:33] We Go Together 2:33     10 Helmet 1:17               1:17 11 Scavenger Hunt 0:09               0:09 12 Arrival on Pasaana 0:44         09B [2:33-end] We Go Together 0:44       SOURCE MUSIC 1:05                 13 Rey and Nyambee 1:01               1:01 14 It's Ren 1:39               1:39 15 Wayfinder 0:56               0:56 16 The Speeder Chase 2:39         OST 05 The Speeder Chase is unused     2:39 17 Underground 0:32               0:32 18 Sith Dagger 1:16               1:16 19 Snake 0:19               0:19 20 Healing The Snake 1:19               1:19 21 The Knights of Ren 0:21               0:21 22 In The Desert 2:26   04 In the Desert 2:26           23 Transporter 1:04               1:04 24 We Gotta Go 0:24               0:24 25 A Prisoner 1:23   05 A Prisoner 1:23           26 To Kijimi 1:37   06 To Kimiji 1:37           27 Zorii Bliss 0:48               0:48 28 I Care 1:04               1:04   SOURCE MUSIC 0:49                 29 My Friends 0:49               0:49 30 Report 0:18               0:18 31 Nobody Came 1:01               1:01 32 Incoming Destroyer 1:36               1:36 33 Fleeing from Kijimi 1:53   07 Fleeing from Kimiji 1:53   08A [0:00-1:33] Fleeing from Kijimi 1:33     34 Hallway Shooting 2:11   08 Hallway Shooting 2:11           35 Ren's Quarters 0:44               0:44 36 Hard to Get Rid Of 2:19   09 Hard to Get Rid Of 2:19           37 Lock Down The Ship 0:06               0:06 38 I'm The Spy 1:27         08C [1:33-end] Fleeing from Kijimi 1:18   0:20 39 Join Me 3:42   10 Join Me 2:21   10 Join Me 3:42     40 We Found Our Spy 0:21               0:21 41 I Know You 1:02               1:02 42 The Old Death Star 2:14   11 The Old Death Star 2:14   04A [0:00-1:22] The Old Death Star 1:22     43 Finn and Jannah 0:49         Could be partially "Finn's Confession" from TFA tracked in     0:49 44 Off The Waterfront 1:03   12 Off the Waterfront 1:03   04C [2:21-end] The Old Death Star 0:55     45 Another Skimmer 0:31               0:31 46 Rey Explores 1:11         "Darth Vader's Death" from ROTJ partially tracked in     1:11 47 Light Saber Duel 0:30               0:30 48 Saber Duel Continues 1:18               1:18 49 Final Saber Duel 1:38   13 Final Saber Duel 1:38   12A [0:00-1:05] The Final Saber Duel 1:05     50 Healing Wounds 2:54   14 Healing Wounds 2:49   12C [1:42-end] The Final Saber Duel 2:15     51 Advice 1:54   15 Advice 1:54           52 The Destruction of Kijimi 1:23               1:23 53 Poe and Leia 2:07               2:07 54 Destiny of a Jedi 5:12         06 Destiny of a Jedi 5:12     55 Luke's X-WIng 1:18               1:18 56 They Will Come 1:29         11B [0:57-end] They Will Come 1:54     57 Arrival at Exegol 1:18         This seems to actually be the intended placement of Journey To Exegol ???     1:18 58 Rey To Throne Room 0:40               0:40 59 Battle of the Resistance 1:54   16 Battle of the Resistance 1:54   13B [1:12-end] Battle of the Resistance 1:39     60 Approaching The Throne 4:16   17 Approaching the Throne 4:16   14 Approaching the Throne 4:16     61 Parents 1:57   18 Parents 1:57           62 Coming Together 1:44   19 Coming Together 1:44           63 Rey & Ren Team Up 1:00               1:00 64 The One True Emperor 0:19               0:19 65 Too Many of Them 0:30               0:30 66 Lando Arrives 1:24               1:24 67 The Return of the Sith 0:58               0:58 68 Seeing Sights 3:17   20 Seeing Sights 3:17   15A [0:00-3:02] The Force Is with You 3:02     69 Destruction 0:49         At least partially "Peace and Purpose" from TLJ tracked in     0:28 70 Rescue 1:10   21 Rescue 1:10   15B [3:02-end] The Force Is with You 0:57     71 Rey's Death 0:48         16A [0:00-0:48] Farewell 0:48     72 Farewell 4:27   22 Farewell 4:27   16B [0:48-end] Farewell 4:26     73 Reunion 4:04         17 Reunion 4:04     74 A New Home 1:47   23 A New Home 1:42   18 A New Home 1:47     75 Finale 10:51         19 Finale 10:51                   Total Unreleased Music:   0:43:32  
 
There's a ton of music on the OST not heard in the film at all... besides little portions snipped out of cues that did make the film, we have:
 
01B [1:26-1:45] Fanfare and Prologue    0:00:26 replaced by Starry Night from TFA 01D [1:52-2:52] Fanfare and Prologue    0:01:00 01F [2:58-end] Fanfare and Prologue    1:16:00 02A [0:00-1:02] Journey to Exegol    0:01:02 I think this is actually partially heard as Rey arrives later in the film, hard to hear under sound effects 02C [2:33-end] Journey to Exegol    0:00:16 05 The Speeder Chase    0:03:21 replaced in final cut with new, much less interesting cue 04B [1:19-2:21] The Old Death Star    0:01:01 could be an early version of the trio meeting Jannah's crew?  Or some of that and some of an early version of Finn talking to Jannah? 12B [1:05-1:42] The Final Saber Duel    0:00:37 could be an early version of the opening to Healing Wounds? 11A [0:00-0:57] They Will Come    0:00:57 could be an early version of the resistance discovering Rey's message coming from Luke's X-Wing? 13A [0:00-1:12] Battle of the Resistance    0:01:12 could be deleted final space battle footage?  Or a special album-only opening?  
 
 
 
~
 
 
Original main post:
 
 
 
 
 
 
In this thread you can discuss the entire score, as heard in the film itself, the OST, the FYC, or anywhere else, without using spoiler tags.

Of course, in the early days here, you can certain put very spoiler-y things in tags for the time being.

The point of this thread is so those people who want to discuss the OST album without reading anything about the film can stay in that thread, and only come in here after they've seen the film.

@Thor, feel free to copy and paste the paragraph you just posted about the score in the film thread into this thread too

It was definitely meant to represent Cloud City, and the almost sickly serene happiness of the sound was meant to convey that something was off about this place, that there was something lurking under a facade that was trying just a bit too hard to appear innocent.

As much as I love this score, I do feel like the old themes were overused again especially during the last act. Interestingly, as buried as the music was, the old themes were always audible even during the action scenes. I don’t blame Williams at all for all the repeats but rather I blame Abrams and Disney for being in complete nostalgia mode for the ST. They know people go apeshit when something from the OT is referenced and the music is no exception... “Burning Homestead” in TFA, “Here They Come” in TLJ and several OT music moments in TROS. It’s become rather tiresome hearing the force theme and rebel fanfare during what seemed to be every other scene. Regardless, the original music is excellent especially for a man in his late 80’s. It seems Williams has written more SW music in a 5 year period than he has previously - he definitely dedicated and passionate about SW.

I tried so hard to like this film. I held out until the very end hoping that something might happen to salvage what a mess this "final" entry was in my eyes, but nothing happened. In what was possibly a product of the film mix, the quality of my theater's speakers, or both, I could hardly hear the score throughout 85% of the film despite my best efforts.  The film ended and the credits rolled and I felt immensely disappointed. I'd spent 2+ hours feeling numb to what was happening and both frustrated and surprised at myself for not feeling more when significant events were occurring with characters I had invested sizable time with. 

But then those end credits swung into that Rise of Skywalker theme and our theater was filled with that old Williams magic. Suddenly I was back to being a little kid again, discovering and in awe of all Williams had to offer for the first time, eagerly trying to get my hands on anything he had written. There is a seriously transportive nature to that theme that almost, to me, seems to perfectly embody the love and appreciation we have for this man and the impact he has had in our lives more than anything. It's more befitting of being representative of Williams saying goodbye to Star Wars and reflecting back on the stupendous nature of his incredible career than a closing theme for the Skywalker saga (as I'm sure others have noted). 
 
For a solid minute, I sat in that mostly empty theater and felt all these intense waves of varying emotions alongside the sinking realization that Williams was here to send us off with one final glorious farewell. Williams was able to conjure up more feelings from me and with more depth in that single minute than the entire film had in 2 hours. As much as I loved the new sequel scores, after the Last Jedi I was content with saying that Williams had said pretty much everything he had to say on this franchise but then this theme comes along and proves me dead wrong. It was like the last piece had finally clicked into place. It feels so deliberate and purposeful to me, almost as if Williams knew back when he was asked if he wanted to score these new films that he had this one last thing to say on them. Or as if he had written this theme in the late 90s/early 2000s and had just forgotten to use it in anything and discovered it stashed away in a drawer somewhere shortly before scoring this film.  
 
The man turns 88 in 2 months and still knows how to make me feel certain emotions better than anyone. I'm speechless and in total awe at how beautiful this theme is. This is a defining theme.

oh man the Rey training music was brilliant, as was the unreleased action music at the end.  I love the Knights of Ren music that played over the scene of them atop of the desert.  Not one wasted note in this score, I agree with you @Jay, never a score I've clicked with as much as this one.  It's painful to know there's 3+ hours recorded. 

I guess its just me that I really don't like straight up reuse of music from previous films, rerecorded or not. 
 
I don't care for Superstructure Chase in ROTJ, or the TESB duel music and tracked DOTF in ROTS.
 
My bad, I guess.

Have you guys noticed the beginning of both Emperor's theme and Rey's theme is very similar?
 
Karol

My wife and I saw the 5 pm fan showing. (We got a pin!)
 
We both liked it a lot. I agree with many of the comments above but still liked it. We are seeing it again Sunday with my sister and her family.
 
Dark side notes:
Felt the opening third was choppy (a good word from previous comments). I wanted a more traditional longer sequence/scene to grab me 
Music felt too low in our theater for the first half. (see light side below)
Tracked music jumped out at me, but I did not mind it - I just was surprised at the choice to edit in something that could have been recorded again so the sound matched. But I suspect this was a late change.
Agreed the editing of battle and JW's music could have been better.
As usual, lots of misdirection from JJ in the trailer that had different or opposite impacts in the final film
The shot of Wedge felt shoehorned in.
 
Light side notes:
The second half of the music mix was great (editing not withstanding). It worked really well, and even the previous film themes felt generally right to me - particularly Yoda & The Force.
Sound effects and mix were super enjoyable particularly the past Jedi stuff and around the Emperor.
Satisfying ending for the sequel trilogy in terms of story and score. 
I was very happy with the playing of the choir and musicians. Sounds great on the big screen.
 
Bonus
I saw that JW had a screen credit as Oma Tres, and now that I know he is seen on Kijimi, I realize I spotted him and had a moment of - wait, who is that? But only after seeing the credits did I realize he was in there. How much do I want an action figure of Oma Tres?  
 
Bonus x2
When do we get the JW action figure!!!!?
 
Overall, I am very happy with the score and movie. Both have flaws, but not in the same ways or in as bad ways as TLJ or AotC. (Although I like the music for both.)
 
 

The movie is hot trash.
 
But the score works beautifully and is the best thing about it.
 
My biggest gripe - seriously JJ couldn't time the cut for the procession of the resistance aircraft to the crescendo of Farewell.
 
 
4:20 should have co-incided with a cut. That's editing 101. It would make the music much more memorable in the mind of the public. 
 
Currently, you have the close-up of Poe and suddenly the music crescendos on his face without a cut. 
 
Piss poor from JJ. Not letting of JW's best moments shine properly.