HunterTech

Also, the last time someone I know kept mentioning issues a release had to Intrada, he just straight up got banned from their websites despite him being very respectful about the faults on their forums. Oh, and a different release years later got one of the members of the label to comment directly on this forum, only to say that a mastering fault one track had was non-existent/miscalculated because we used consumer grade software to detect it (despite clipping being a very basic audio quirk to notice on just about anything). So really, Holko would probably just end up having to make a second account if he's lucky :P.

Well, I ended up being more right in this regard than I even anticipated. The full score nearly boarders on being an entirely different listening experience compared to the previous album, since so many of the missing pieces are pretty much the actual narrative of the music. The big complaint I had with the prior selection of tracks is that once you get past the two fantastic main title tracks and two reprises, most everything else felt so disconnected and far off from the personality initially established that I found it hard to appreciate what Young was doing. The new release makes apparent that those two tracks are proper themes in the score, with many variants helping to actually make the listening experience feel cohesive. The synth stuff is also better integrated as a result, even if out of context it feels like an odd detour the score takes for a moment. I still can't say I'm particularly fond of the climax cues, since it's pretty clear that Young only wrote thematic material for the alien and nothing more, but at least it plays better when I don't have that nagging feeling that I should be hearing more instances of the main themes! I just can't understand what Young was aiming for on his previous albums for this, besides maybe finding the many instances of the themes repetitive. It just ended up doing his work on the film no favors, so I'm absolutely ecstatic that this release managed to happen. Definitely the version you should own.

After re-listening to it yesterday, I find it's only in the Train cue where the tone gets derailed by the techno intrusions, since anything else approaching that territory is pretty much only in the alts (though Ambush probably gets close). And the funny thing is that the filmmakers actually seem to agree, because those elements are toned down in the actual film mix! But yes, the end credits suite is an incredibly effective edit, even if it's maybe too reliant on the climax cues for it to not feel too redundant to include in a playlist. I do wonder who on team the assembled it, since it definitely features unique bits that aren't in the rest of the score.

Referring to it as "the full thing" is the only indicator that he listened to the expansion, since I have seen people refer to the Logan and Rogue theme as such based off only the OST. Even if it's just because it's definitely the cue that makes the strongest impression in-film.

And there are more variants of that theme on the expansion! Not nearly enough as there should be, but that's only because Rogue's own motif is pretty much an incomplete version of it, so it's purposefully held back until key moments. I had completely forgotten that the OST leaves out some of my personal key favorite highlights that strengthen the narrative of the score. But at the same time, they're not gonna be anything that sounds substantially different. Maybe even worse in a few spots, since the original album jettisons some of the electronics in areas. I did forget to post this when I made it, but I did make a crack at restoring a rejected cue for a scene in the movie. I did go the lazy route and just kept the center channel, so you do hear a tiny bit of the tracked cue the final film uses, but it should work okay:

Pretty much. The story goes that once it came time for Kamen to record the score, Lauren Shuler Donner was completely dissatisfied with what he had written, and demanded that he redo the whole thing with a more muted and techno-y sound palette. Many revisions and a supposedly unhappy Kamen later, this was the score we got. It was always a strange story to me, since it gives the impression that Michael had no idea what the actual tone of the movie was going in. Almost like he assumed it was going to be exactly like the 90s cartoon and started from there. But given the production hell the first movie went through (surprise surprise, the sexual deviant director also sucks in other ways), I wouldn't be shocked if Fox had shown Kamen the Whedon draft of the script before that got 99% thrown out.

I have wondered if the score could be considered technically unfinished, just based on the state of certain cues. The Main Titles being completely tracked (1m1 is actually Death Camp), the original version of Land of Intolerance abruptly ending (with the film version having to fake one), and everything to do with Inside The Statue (the Kamen website even lists the tracked version!). Combine that with the slew of revisions, plus versions made specifically for the OST, it is honestly a miracle that the score holds together as much as it does. Even if it does also explain why people generally only remember select pieces. If it wasn't for Disney buying Fox, I would've been very curious in seeing what a further expanded re-release of this score could've looked like, since there's absolutely stuff they could release in addition to the coveted classic superhero sounding demos MK made. Even if it's just the final score demos Badelt used to have on his promos/website and proper film versions on some tracks (since the internal 2CD set seems to have been for an earlier cut). But then given the Kamen Estate likely already gave them everything they had presumably, I guess it'd be down to if anyone else involved had anything they could offer from the production.

It's definitely an acquired taste. I certainty had trouble listening to it back when we only had the bootlegged "film stem" set, but then I got into it a bit more after I'd grabbed an edit someone did (once it became apparent there were gaps in the final edit of the score). It's far more cohesive and thematic than I think people give it credit for, but there's no beating around some of the more abrasive sounds that Kamen likely threw in out of frustration. I certainly have trouble imagining what the more Superman inspired version of this sounded like, because it fits in very well with the other Kamen stuff I've heard (a theme here is straight up taken from Robin Hood!). The action material definitely isn't as cohesive as people might like it to be, but it's got enough energy and personality to it that I honestly don't mind. Really, the highlights are in the dramatic and emotional moments. Very few superhero movies have captured the feelings Death Camp and Logan and Rogue leave me with. They arguably are quite odd for a cape flick, but that's what makes them appealing! You simply will not find anything else with the personality of this, for better or worse. The OST is on streaming if you want a sampler, since it's decently representative of the score (despite some mixes being tailored for the album). The LLL certainly gives a much fuller picture on what Kamen managed to achieve, but I think that'll just depend on if you like any of it beforehand.

Next week? They really packed all these rescreenings in such a short time, with the weekly Spider-Man reruns and (less advertised) select Nolan reruns.

This really could've just been a "I have my expectations low based on the current description not sounding like my thing" tbh

Ah. I'd honestly written that comment as a joke, since I figured it'd be a bigger deal if something was actually missing. Guess I was right in thinking that emote didn't convey the intent well . (The comment after certainly doesn't help, either .)

Woah. It had previously stated it was merely out of stock. Given it's a Fox movie, I can't help but wonder if Disney has straight up cut themselves off from whatever agreements there were initially, since the exact same thing has also happened to the Die Hard with a Vengeance release.

Young is very particular about even some expansions of his, to which he has acknowledged in liner notes would frustrate several fans. So you get stuff the like official Core album, where they straight up combine two versions of one track as part of the presentation. It's something you wouldn't mind unless you're actually familiar with a film he scored (to which his potential SM3 album would've frustrated me to no end). Assuming it will be from a fresh source, I doubt Species will be like Virtuosity, where some tracks were likely left out for legal reasons. But given Young and Intrada have a great working relationship, I do wonder if they'll feel inclined to leave the full score unchanged this time or if they'll make an entirely different presentation.

The 2008 release pretty much took the original promo that was made around the time of the movie's release, and added a couple of extra tracks in-between, as well as 3 synth ones at the end. Looking at the cue list and even just watching the opening act of the film, it's pretty apparent that stuff is either missing or we only have the alternates for them. Plus it's a fairly standard Young OST in terms of rearranging the order of tracks for "ideal listening" and all that junk. The rather strange thing about the release is that every new track on it came from a lossy source, suggesting they were pretty limited in terms of the masters they had access to (especially since everything else matches the promo otherwise). So the real intrigue would be if this new release actually uses the original master instead of whatever Intrada and Young had lying around for the score.

Having finally gotten to watch the remaining Kelvin movies recently after only having had Beyond under my belt prior: yeah, making a prequel makes absolutely no sense as the next step. Maybe they ought to wait and see how the proper follow up pans out first (even if it'll definitely be a pain to not have Chekov there anymore (RIP Anton)).

I kind of figured. I think I got thrown off by Holko's phrasing in his post, since such wording tends to imply unreleased material normally.

So you mean to tell me that this Ultimate Edition is actually missing stuff?

DoD is more interesting than TRoS ever will be, even if not quite for the reasons if should be.

A bit harsh, but I do concede that a movie that ends with it saying that men should be allowed to be their own people instead of following every masculine stereotype is anything but emasculating to men. (That, and nothing will ever be as cool as the whole "I'm Just Ken" sequence.)

Nope. It's the same artwork as on the website, which meant whoever submitted them to whatever database Stark used had to make up titles for them.

Yes, because that's the version of this release that he owns. I would've posted the tracks, but I wasn't sure if it'd be allowed publicly.

So me and @Stark have been discussing this anomaly, and discovered that if you purchased the score around at least February 2021, then chances are: you already have these tracks! And they're pretty much exactly what the titles say they are, so I guess we'll find out soon if this is another A.I. situation or not. Given I would've recently gotten the "original tracklist" version from one of Lukas Kendall's several collector sales, I am a bit peeved that this now another BSX release where I bought it before a slightly more expanded release popped up (or at least was made aware of this being something that has happened).

The trap I fell into when I listened to Afterlife the one time is that the call backs were so meticulous in their faithfulness that they basically prevented me from really paying attention to a lot of the new material, which resulted in a bit of an uneven listen. Part of the reason might be my continued lack of familiarity with the period the score is blatantly calling back to, so anything else pretty much went over my head. Frozen Empire, on the other hand, definitely has more of the Gia/Tyler approach, wherein you can recognize the general thematic material, but the orchestration more matches the sensibilities of the new composer. As such, it made it a lot easier for me to appreciate this as its own thing, even if some of the reprises barely registered as such (one quote in particular left me scratching my head as to if the main melody was even being attempted there). The one thing I will give to Afterlife is being clearer in establishing motifs, as I was very quick to pick up on at least one recurring idea despite what I mentioned earlier. FE, while remaining plentiful in its Bernstein use, seems to have more trouble in really establishing some concrete new identities. There's one that I think is there, yet it could just be 3 cues that happen to hit similar emotional beats. Still, I thought it was a pretty fun listen overall. It's not often a score can leave me feeling a little swept up on a first go (especially a new one), yet I think it achieved that in a few places here. Especially "In the Fabric of the Universe," which seems oddly cosmic feeling for this franchise, yet it definitely worked in a manner not too dissimilar to Dana's theme from the first. The action material isn't exactly remarkable, but there's definitely touches of creativity within the orchestrations in areas. Really, I just wish we did have more material akin to that last track, since there's heart and sincerity here that's been lacking in a lot of Hollywood scores these days (and dare I say even Afterlife to a degree).

"I ate the whole plate. The whole plate!"

Down to a negative Clemmensen review that complains about that very thing!