Mr. Gitz

Yes. While I personally don’t care for Ron Howard’s work(outside of Apollo 13), I think had he changed his name to Jèan Phillipè Lòreàu he’d be more respected as a filmmaker. I mean who wants to go see the latest “Ron Howard” movie? Ew. No thank you. But if Jèan Phillipè Lòreàu is coming out with a movie? From the director of Apollo 13? Frost Nixon? And, um, The Grinch A Beautiful Mind? See, Ron Howard is a hack journey man with no voice. But Jèan Phillipè Lòreàu? That man is a master artiste. Apollo 13 by Ron Howard is about the failed Apollo 13 mission. But Apollo 13 by Jèan Phillipè Lòreàu is a treatise on the way failure is spun into success by media in support of the military industrial complex using the Tibetan Book of the dead & Dante’s Inferno as inspiration.

I never bought what happened with Zimmer on Kingdom of Heaven, If anyone remembers, Zimmer was suppose to score Kingdom of Heaven. But then he & RGW switched projects and Zimmer composed some animated film over KOH. They had a falling out for sure. He went from Ridley’s composer to never working with him again.

Exactly(well everything but the Jaws 2 score being better). Jaws is such lightning in a bottle that a sequel would never work. Jaws works so damn well because that animatronic Shark broke down. Anyone who wants a powerful lesson in not showing what’s happening need only watch the opening attack. That scene is so much more horrific because of what we don’t see. We are imagining it and it’s…yikes. (Forgive the off topic digression) You can get away with not showing the shark on the first movie. But a sequel, you’d have to show it more. Otherwise the audience would be all “Oh they are doing the whole ‘don’t show the shark thing again’ “. That and….CGI isn’t very scary. I honestly think older movies where they used optical printing, like Poltergeist or Exorcist, there’s something about the ghost effects that work better. CGI is too clean. Too bright. Those old effects have this whispy unnatural quality to them. Plus now no one really wonders “How did they do that?”. They know. “CGI”. Those older movies the process is much more abstract for people it reminds me of the Ghostbusters movies. The ghosts in the 2016 reboot weren’t scary. They looked like reused scooby doo effects. The first two have much more effective ghosts. It’s a hard thing to get right in movies today.

Whoa you totally picked 2 of the 3 cues I initially thought of. I couldn’t remember the names of them though(and I wanted to leave room for others) but Padme’s Rumination is veeery UnWilliams. But I like it. Not only is it UnWilliams but it’s so UnStar Wars. I still remembering hearing it for the first time, convinced George Lucas wouldn’t use it. But damn if it isn’t one of my favourite moments in the film(Yes I admit I’m one of those weirdos who really enjoys the prequels) JFK is also a score I was thinking of. And that cue is exactly the one that came to mind. Holy smokes. That is so close to “Banning Back Home” it borders on the P word. Yikes. Instead of the P word I’ll give the benefit of the doubt and use the “I” word. “Inspired”

As we all know JW has a particular “sound” even when he changes up styles or aesthetics, Williams is Williams. But I’m wondering what some here consider his most…UnWilliams like work. What does that mean? Something that if you hadn’t seen his name, you’d never guess he composed it. For me there is no particular score that comes to mind but there is a piece of music and I wonder if some of you haven’t guessed it already. It’s from Hook. One of his greatest scores contains one of his…oddest pieces. It sounds like 1990s Sitcom music. It’s “Banning Back Home”. It sounds more like Randy Edelman than John Williams.

Whoa. Reading all these replies really made me feel not so alone.

forgive me but can you explain who Ludlow is? The only Ludlow I can think of is the character from JP2

I was joking. I thought the Hans Zimmer part would’ve clued some of you in. I was serious in that I’m shocked he doesn’t get calls(or maybe he does?) to just theme work for certain movies ala the Han Solo movie or the Obi Wan show. But no. Hiring John Williams to write music to movies not yet made is not something that should happen. I remember hearing someone once, I can’t remember where, claim that they knew what his sequel idea was. I *think* it might’ve been Richard Dreyfuss. Anyways, It wasn’t a sequel at all but a prequel & it was about Quint on the Indianapolis.

I honestly lose sleep over the terrifying prospect that one day we will have heard our last John Williams composed piece of music. I remember worrying that he maybe wouldn’t make it through the prequel SW trilogies! The prequels lol! That was almost 20 years ago! This is why if I was a billionaire Hollywood exec, like a certain Senior Spielberg-O, I would hire John to write just a shit load of random themes and suites. Like “Ok. Write me a love theme, write me a superhero theme, write me a thriller motif, write an epic action sequence” etc. Sure it’s not ideal but it would at least bank some John music for future projects. That way we could have loads of Williams penned music that another composer can come in and adapt. Someone like, oh I don’t know, maybe….. Hans Zimmer? Ha! Gotcha! But honestly it shocks me this doesn’t happen more. If I’m making a movie the first call I make is to JW’s representatives to ask if he’d compose just some themes for use in my movie. That’s be so much easier & less time consuming than a full score. I still don’t know how Marvel didn’t throw the brinks truck at John for a Captain America score/theme. No offence to Alan Silvestri, but damn that movie needed “a banger” as the kids these days say. That was the one superhero score that DEMANDED a generational theme.

I’ve been thinking about how John Williams’s music goes through changes and evolutions yet always still sounding like John Williams through & through. That unmistakable John Williams sound can be as brassy as the Imperial March or as wild as Catch Me if You Can. All of this is probably wrong, and I’ll leave it to others to correct and possible take a step further but what I mean is.. There seems to be an aesthetic similarity to Jaws, Stars Wars, Close Encounters, Indiana Jones(Raiders) & E.T. That would be one era But then years later we get a series of scores that also have similar aesthetics. For example, Harry Potter 3 sounds NOTHING like Harry Potter 1. When Williams got to the 3rd Harry Potter film he started playing with a new sound that we hear in scores like The Terminal, Tin Tin, Catch Me if You Can, War of the Worlds. I couldn’t describe it. It sounds more…playful? I don’t know. More Jazz influenced? But there’s a commonality there. Is it in instrumentation? Recording technology? Or purely how he writes? Perhaps all 3? I guess what I’m asking is, do you think Williams undergoes a cognizant deliberate stylistic change over the years, or just takes it movie by movie and does whatever he feels is appropriate?

I was in the shower. I didn’t know a Batman theme was going to be sent into my brain from the great muse whilst lathering my arm pits.

Think of it this way. A movie trailer with catchy music, or any commercial with catchy music, is going to stay in the mind of consumers Vs a commercial without a catchy tune. The more the tune is in their mind, they more likely they are to buy the product, talk about the product with others, etc. That translates to more $. Now transfer that line of thinking to movies. How many Bruce Boughton scores are you able to recall right as you leave the theatre? Now do the same thought experiment with JW. We know the affect pleasurable music has on our endorphins. When Luke watches those twin suns setting in Star Wars? JW is technically getting you high with this sonic bliss. I was unaware of that particular Beverly Hills Cop piece of trivia. So I guess add it to the list.

I think you are underestimating the affect score can have on an audience. Let’s look at Home Alone. John Hughes had many films made, many of them were better reviewed, many of them holiday themed. None of them did Home Alone type business. You go down the line on that film and the only person that had that level of success? John Williams. Consistently. MC had many movies come out after Home Alone. None of them were majorly successes. Look at the relationship between music and movies in the 1970s/1980s. Most of the biggest movies have memorable scores or music. Star Wars, Indiana Jones, E.T. Ghostbusters(Ray Parker Jr theme song), Back to the Future, Batman. Beverly Hills Cop is the only movie that doesn’t fit that pattern but that was big due to Eddie Murphy. I’m not suggesting those films were big simply because of the score, but that it plays are larger role than some seem to think. Look at Titanic. The theme song and the score were huge. Huge. Now as me move into the more modern era I think that becomes less and less of a phenomenon. But back in the day? I think it played a large role. Having a great movie too helps. But a great score is what seals the deal.

That can’t be true

Huge disagree. How many Bruce Boughton movies are the top grossing movies of all time when they were released? Now let’s look at John Williams. Word of mouth was a huge part of Home Alone’s success. And I think Williams music has a subconscious affect on audiences. It’s warm, inviting, loving. Playful. Memorable. This may seem controversial but, I mean, you can’t argue with the results. I think a lot of the success of Star Wars, Jaws, E.T. Is because of the music. People are humming those tunes when they leave the theatre. It makes everything memorable. Like a call and response. This isn’t to say these movies aren’t great on their own but anyone who thinks Star Wars becomes a pop culture phenomenon with a Synth score I don’t think is paying the proper due to the audiences relationship with film music. I don’t think it’s any accident that the top films of all time prior to 2008ish, They all had banger scores. And a lot of them, hell, most of them, are John Williams. Especially when it comes to whether or not a movie has staying power. The music is a massive part of the sense memory people have with movies.