Mr. Gitz

Yes. While I personally don’t care for Ron Howard’s work(outside of Apollo 13), I think had he changed his name to Jèan Phillipè Lòreàu he’d be more respected as a filmmaker. I mean who wants to go see the latest “Ron Howard” movie? Ew. No thank you. But if Jèan Phillipè Lòreàu is coming out with a movie? From the director of Apollo 13? Frost Nixon? And, um, The Grinch A Beautiful Mind? See, Ron Howard is a hack journey man with no voice. But Jèan Phillipè Lòreàu? That man is a master artiste. Apollo 13 by Ron Howard is about the failed Apollo 13 mission. But Apollo 13 by Jèan Phillipè Lòreàu is a treatise on the way failure is spun into success by media in support of the military industrial complex using the Tibetan Book of the dead & Dante’s Inferno as inspiration.

I never bought what happened with Zimmer on Kingdom of Heaven, If anyone remembers, Zimmer was suppose to score Kingdom of Heaven. But then he & RGW switched projects and Zimmer composed some animated film over KOH. They had a falling out for sure. He went from Ridley’s composer to never working with him again.

Exactly(well everything but the Jaws 2 score being better). Jaws is such lightning in a bottle that a sequel would never work. Jaws works so damn well because that animatronic Shark broke down. Anyone who wants a powerful lesson in not showing what’s happening need only watch the opening attack. That scene is so much more horrific because of what we don’t see. We are imagining it and it’s…yikes. (Forgive the off topic digression) You can get away with not showing the shark on the first movie. But a sequel, you’d have to show it more. Otherwise the audience would be all “Oh they are doing the whole ‘don’t show the shark thing again’ “. That and….CGI isn’t very scary. I honestly think older movies where they used optical printing, like Poltergeist or Exorcist, there’s something about the ghost effects that work better. CGI is too clean. Too bright. Those old effects have this whispy unnatural quality to them. Plus now no one really wonders “How did they do that?”. They know. “CGI”. Those older movies the process is much more abstract for people it reminds me of the Ghostbusters movies. The ghosts in the 2016 reboot weren’t scary. They looked like reused scooby doo effects. The first two have much more effective ghosts. It’s a hard thing to get right in movies today.

Whoa you totally picked 2 of the 3 cues I initially thought of. I couldn’t remember the names of them though(and I wanted to leave room for others) but Padme’s Rumination is veeery UnWilliams. But I like it. Not only is it UnWilliams but it’s so UnStar Wars. I still remembering hearing it for the first time, convinced George Lucas wouldn’t use it. But damn if it isn’t one of my favourite moments in the film(Yes I admit I’m one of those weirdos who really enjoys the prequels) JFK is also a score I was thinking of. And that cue is exactly the one that came to mind. Holy smokes. That is so close to “Banning Back Home” it borders on the P word. Yikes. Instead of the P word I’ll give the benefit of the doubt and use the “I” word. “Inspired”

As we all know JW has a particular “sound” even when he changes up styles or aesthetics, Williams is Williams. But I’m wondering what some here consider his most…UnWilliams like work. What does that mean? Something that if you hadn’t seen his name, you’d never guess he composed it. For me there is no particular score that comes to mind but there is a piece of music and I wonder if some of you haven’t guessed it already. It’s from Hook. One of his greatest scores contains one of his…oddest pieces. It sounds like 1990s Sitcom music. It’s “Banning Back Home”. It sounds more like Randy Edelman than John Williams.

Whoa. Reading all these replies really made me feel not so alone.

forgive me but can you explain who Ludlow is? The only Ludlow I can think of is the character from JP2

I was joking. I thought the Hans Zimmer part would’ve clued some of you in. I was serious in that I’m shocked he doesn’t get calls(or maybe he does?) to just theme work for certain movies ala the Han Solo movie or the Obi Wan show. But no. Hiring John Williams to write music to movies not yet made is not something that should happen. I remember hearing someone once, I can’t remember where, claim that they knew what his sequel idea was. I *think* it might’ve been Richard Dreyfuss. Anyways, It wasn’t a sequel at all but a prequel & it was about Quint on the Indianapolis.

I honestly lose sleep over the terrifying prospect that one day we will have heard our last John Williams composed piece of music. I remember worrying that he maybe wouldn’t make it through the prequel SW trilogies! The prequels lol! That was almost 20 years ago! This is why if I was a billionaire Hollywood exec, like a certain Senior Spielberg-O, I would hire John to write just a shit load of random themes and suites. Like “Ok. Write me a love theme, write me a superhero theme, write me a thriller motif, write an epic action sequence” etc. Sure it’s not ideal but it would at least bank some John music for future projects. That way we could have loads of Williams penned music that another composer can come in and adapt. Someone like, oh I don’t know, maybe….. Hans Zimmer? Ha! Gotcha! But honestly it shocks me this doesn’t happen more. If I’m making a movie the first call I make is to JW’s representatives to ask if he’d compose just some themes for use in my movie. That’s be so much easier & less time consuming than a full score. I still don’t know how Marvel didn’t throw the brinks truck at John for a Captain America score/theme. No offence to Alan Silvestri, but damn that movie needed “a banger” as the kids these days say. That was the one superhero score that DEMANDED a generational theme.

I’ve been thinking about how John Williams’s music goes through changes and evolutions yet always still sounding like John Williams through & through. That unmistakable John Williams sound can be as brassy as the Imperial March or as wild as Catch Me if You Can. All of this is probably wrong, and I’ll leave it to others to correct and possible take a step further but what I mean is.. There seems to be an aesthetic similarity to Jaws, Stars Wars, Close Encounters, Indiana Jones(Raiders) & E.T. That would be one era But then years later we get a series of scores that also have similar aesthetics. For example, Harry Potter 3 sounds NOTHING like Harry Potter 1. When Williams got to the 3rd Harry Potter film he started playing with a new sound that we hear in scores like The Terminal, Tin Tin, Catch Me if You Can, War of the Worlds. I couldn’t describe it. It sounds more…playful? I don’t know. More Jazz influenced? But there’s a commonality there. Is it in instrumentation? Recording technology? Or purely how he writes? Perhaps all 3? I guess what I’m asking is, do you think Williams undergoes a cognizant deliberate stylistic change over the years, or just takes it movie by movie and does whatever he feels is appropriate?

I was in the shower. I didn’t know a Batman theme was going to be sent into my brain from the great muse whilst lathering my arm pits.

Think of it this way. A movie trailer with catchy music, or any commercial with catchy music, is going to stay in the mind of consumers Vs a commercial without a catchy tune. The more the tune is in their mind, they more likely they are to buy the product, talk about the product with others, etc. That translates to more $. Now transfer that line of thinking to movies. How many Bruce Boughton scores are you able to recall right as you leave the theatre? Now do the same thought experiment with JW. We know the affect pleasurable music has on our endorphins. When Luke watches those twin suns setting in Star Wars? JW is technically getting you high with this sonic bliss. I was unaware of that particular Beverly Hills Cop piece of trivia. So I guess add it to the list.

I think you are underestimating the affect score can have on an audience. Let’s look at Home Alone. John Hughes had many films made, many of them were better reviewed, many of them holiday themed. None of them did Home Alone type business. You go down the line on that film and the only person that had that level of success? John Williams. Consistently. MC had many movies come out after Home Alone. None of them were majorly successes. Look at the relationship between music and movies in the 1970s/1980s. Most of the biggest movies have memorable scores or music. Star Wars, Indiana Jones, E.T. Ghostbusters(Ray Parker Jr theme song), Back to the Future, Batman. Beverly Hills Cop is the only movie that doesn’t fit that pattern but that was big due to Eddie Murphy. I’m not suggesting those films were big simply because of the score, but that it plays are larger role than some seem to think. Look at Titanic. The theme song and the score were huge. Huge. Now as me move into the more modern era I think that becomes less and less of a phenomenon. But back in the day? I think it played a large role. Having a great movie too helps. But a great score is what seals the deal.

That can’t be true

Huge disagree. How many Bruce Boughton movies are the top grossing movies of all time when they were released? Now let’s look at John Williams. Word of mouth was a huge part of Home Alone’s success. And I think Williams music has a subconscious affect on audiences. It’s warm, inviting, loving. Playful. Memorable. This may seem controversial but, I mean, you can’t argue with the results. I think a lot of the success of Star Wars, Jaws, E.T. Is because of the music. People are humming those tunes when they leave the theatre. It makes everything memorable. Like a call and response. This isn’t to say these movies aren’t great on their own but anyone who thinks Star Wars becomes a pop culture phenomenon with a Synth score I don’t think is paying the proper due to the audiences relationship with film music. I don’t think it’s any accident that the top films of all time prior to 2008ish, They all had banger scores. And a lot of them, hell, most of them, are John Williams. Especially when it comes to whether or not a movie has staying power. The music is a massive part of the sense memory people have with movies.

The question may sound ridiculous but when you sit and think about it, yeah okay, it still sounds ridiculous. But hear me out. Today with all the various ways one can make music electronically, are there any composers working who can’t actually read/write the notes? For example, Trent Reznor, does he compose or just mess around until he has something? The Guys who did the score for Tron Legacy. Same thing. Did they compose notes or just press some buttons until it sounded right? I can’t read/write music but I often think, damn, if there was a program that could turn my humming into notes? I’m the Mozart of humming. I came up with an awesome Batman theme once in the shower. Then I lost it. All because I can’t write music. You all have lost out on some amazing music due to my music illiteracy. I wonder if that’s the future of film music. One simply hums a tune and A/I does the rest. I say “make my humming sound like John Williams” and then the A.I. obeys & does just that. Then it launches all the worlds nuclear weapons in shame.

So we all know every film is instantly improved when the maestro works his magic. But what film in his filmography does he take from a middling, average film into a blockbuster/classic with his music alone? My vote might be controversial but I’m thinking of what the alternative would’ve been, because the director has mentioned it, and JW’s score elevates this movie so much there’s no way it would’ve been as huge of a hit. No way. And it’s easy to forget now just how big this movie was at the time. I'm talking, of course, about Home Alone. And it’s sequel. Now I’m not saying it’s his best score. That would be insane. But it certainly takes what easily could’ve, would’ve and was suppose to be, a standard Bruce Boughton score, and elevates it into an all time holiday classic. That main title? Like…how does he manage to get it perfect every friggin time? “Oh you need a theme for a shark that’s barely in the movie? Sure no prob.” “Oh you need an Alien to fly a bike? I can help with that.” “Oh you want to do a sci fi fairy tale with space wizards? John’s got you covered, baby.” “You want me to help make sure the audience believes Superman can fly? Psscht. I thought you had a challenge for me” “Dinosaurs in a theme park? Hey, just give me a scene with a helicopter & I’ll do the rest.” “You need a theme for the Harry Potter trailer? How about I give you a theme for the owl instead” “You want this laser sword fight to feel as if destiny hangs in the balance, and you want me to give it a kick ass name too? Sure. But only if I can make it the most epic fuckin choral chant ever recorded by a human being” Now don’t get me wrong I’m not saying Home Alone is bad. It’s got John Hughes, Joe Pesci, Catherine O’Hara and John Candy for Christ sakes but there is no way, and I mean NO WAY, in hell that Home Alome makes almost 300 million at the box office without JW’s magic.

Oh for sure that’s a tremendous piece. One of JW’s all time best. But that’s a little more uplifting & inspiring. But there’s something just so…achingly beautiful about this composition. It pierces right through you. What a score

My god. Have you ever listened to a piece of music where it makes you feel as if, for just a moment, all the universes answers are within reach and the meaning of life itself is about it be revealed to you? But then the moment ends and it all slips away? I’m not a spiritual man. I’m not religious. But when I listen to JW’s Hook score, specifically “Farewell Neverland” when the hauntingly beautiful choral 2:19 come in? It’s as if I can step outside of myself and see the big picture. It’s hard to describe. What a piece of music! It makes my soul ache, makes me yearn for memories long gone. I can feel it in every fibre of my being. This isn’t simply “music”. No. It’s so much more. It’s memory, nostalgia, love, hurt and sorrow all distilled in one profoundly ethereal piece. It’s the human soul given music form. I feel like the kid from “American Beauty” who watches a bag blow in the wind & sees all the beauty of the world represented in that single moment.

it’s a crime In Noctem was cut out of the movie. A crime. I know in Hollywood it’s called “kill your darlings” for cutting great scenes but in this case, would the added runtime really affect the movie? Sure it’s a 2.5 hour long movie as is but It’s a couple minutes & it really would help to amp up the tension. Not to mention… This is the last night Hogwarts will ever see in reign of Dumbledore as Headmaster. After tonight Hogwarts becomes a place of misery, corruption, torture & war until old noseless is defeated. I think a little montage of all the various goings on within the school set to that music was more than warranted, to say nothing of the beautiful, ethereal & haunting choral work in that cut piece of music. Half Blood Prince is a very frustrating film. They cut out some incredibly important stuff like the death eaters battling it out but then they add that ridiculous bit at that Weasley Burrow where it gets destroyed. You could cut that sequence out and not lose anything. It plays no role in the film, has no long term consequences, is terribly shot and edited + comes at the expense of other important beats of the story. I know the thinking was “we will cut out the action sequence at the end of the book since we are giving them the battle of Hogwarts next movie” but that’s a ridiculous excuse. Especially after it came out David Yates hates wand duels(which is ironic considering he’s given us the best ones). It’s like, they cut out Sirius giving Harry the mirror in OOTP but then have him randomly fiddling with it in Deathly Hallows. All that being said I can’t help but enjoy HBP immensely despite the cuts. The cinematography, the whimsy, spending time with these characters, the score. It’s a last chance to really get to see Hogwarts in its splendid glory before the end of it all. Christ. How have these movies been over for over 12 years now? Where does the time go? It’s been 22 years(!!) since the first one came out. 22 friggn years. How is that even possible?

I feel two ways about this. On the one hand, I love original scores but on the other? It’s cool to see how film music can be recontextualized in a different movie. We don’t see film scores get reused very often(beyond parody). Tarantino is known for his reuse of Ennio Morricone music and it often works quite well(especially in Kill Bill & Inglorious Basterds). For example, the music when the Bride is able to Kill Bill we get a wonderful use of “Navajo Joe” music. The guitar? It just works so well. It’s beautiful, romantic and dignified yet also epic. You’d swear it was composed just for that scene. But it wasn’t. So why don’t we see this more often? Is it cost prohibitive? Taboo? The most random reused piece of film score probably has to be in the directors cut of Troy(yes…there was a directors cut of Troy). If you’ve seen it, you know what I’m talking about. Danny Elfman’s Planet of the Apes main title is used during the fight between Hector and Achilles but oh my does it not fit at all. It’s so random & takes you right out of what use to be one of the best moments of the film. It’s not as if James Horner’s original score was anything special here but it’s just so jarring to hear this modern sounding 21st century Elfman theme in a sword and sandal epic. We all know one day we will lose John Williams. Would you be open to hearing his scores reused in other films? I’ve often thought it’s a shame his music for Hook didn’t belong to a better movie. And I know that movie has it share of fans. Even I have some nostalgia for it. But it’s mostly for the score. It’s one of his best. There’s a piece of music he composed that is so hauntingly ethereal and beautiful that I can feel it in my soul. Yet I don’t think the film uses it well and so it’s sort of wasted(it’s the choral bit in “Farewell Neverland”—one of my favourite Williams pieces). So how come this practice isn’t more widespread?

Hello all. So I know among HP fans Nicholas Hooper isn’t the most beloved composer but I’ve always strongly disagreed with that assessment. I remember when his name was announced as the composer for OOTP like everyone else I let out a collective “Who?” but to my surprise the man actually wrote some of the best non Williams themes that are quite memorable. But most of all? His two HP scores have this charming quality to them. As a kid growing up in Canada there was this cartoon called “Rupert” about an anthropomorphic bear who gets in all sorts of adventures and the opening title sequence sounds very similar to the Hooper aesthetic (I have no idea how to embed a video on this page so I’ll just link to it below. See if you agree that it sounds similar to the Hooper HP score) Anyways, Hooper added this really “storybook English Countryside” feel. That’s the only way I can describe it. The music was whimsical, but also melodic, lush & at times brooding & dark. Yes he wasn’t the best at writing action cues but the Order of the Phoenix theme? Dumbledores Army? Professor Umbridge? The Weasley Twins? Not to mention the sequence where the students light up their wands when Dumbledore dies? That was some wonderful stuff. Those are some extremely memorable bits of music. His music fit the Harry Potter world. I found him a much better fit than Patrick Doyle or Desplat. Desplat especially didn’t do much for me. His music didn’t stand out in anyway. It was just..there. Hoopers music had a very playful quality. Doyle’s score had too much bombast to it. Hooper’s was very string and woodwind oriented. Does anyone know why he seemingly stopped doing films? Potter was his big break on the international scene. I was surprised nothing really came of it. He seemingly quit the Potter films of his own volition which is a shame because https://youtu.be/mp5KYnvLaqU?si=iHK2SKNuNhdC6sU9

John Williams is easily, hands down, the greatest composer of our generation. It’s not even close. Even if you take the “greatest” and swap it out with “most well known/beloved/popular” it still makes the lack of books written about John Williams…weird. Doug Adams wrote a tremendous book on Howard Shore’s LOTR score. It was part analysis, part behind the scenes, part archival. Probably one of the great film score books ever written. It goes deeeep. John Williams wrote the scores to 9 Star Wars films and there’s nothing like that written about them. Nothing. I get that John is humble but the knowledge and insight the world is being denied…it’s frustrating. there should be documentaries, biographies, analysis of the different eras and franchises. And there’s, from what I can see, nothing. Nothing with his involvement and barely anything without. It’s not as if there is a lack of interest. The same has scored the biggest films of all time! I read the Doug Adams LOTR book and I both want and NEED that treatment for John Williams. And unfortunately time is ticking.

Wouldn’t you love to have seen John Williams face when he saw the trailer for the first time and heard how his Raiders March was adapted? Like…What in gods name goes thru these peoples head? It’s easily the worst rendition of the Raiders March I’ve ever heard and I heard a Grade 7 band give it a go.

I listened to the pieces released today and like I assumed would happen it’s as if they think “All we need is lots of choral work & boom! It’s Lord of the Rings”. There are two things I associate with Lord of the Rings on screen. 1 is Howard Shore’s music & the other is New Zealand. I remember when Peter Jackson took over the Hobbit after GDT quit the project & feeling unsure if Shore would return after the falling out between the two on King Kong. I honestly thought Shore & Jackson would be the new power couple in the director/composer realm after LOTR. But then whatever happened on Kong happened & Jackson turned to Brian Eno, of all people, to score his next film. I know some were disappointed with The Hobbits score but I thought they were terrific. The problem is how Jackson utilized the score by chopping it up & requiring odd themes in odd places. I’m still not sure why the Nazgûl theme was used when Thorin descended down the tree on fire. But this? I could care less. The project doesn’t excite me, the score doesn’t excite me. I’m sure I’ll watch, but the little anticipation I did have has evaporated.