SF1_freeze

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  1. Thats why the ST makes no sense. It doesnt add up. The only reason a direct continuation wasnt done was the age of the original cast which should match the years passed since then. RotJ of course only was the beginning of the fall of the Empire not the defeat. As i said the old sextology established that. Only the ST made it all confusing and some tie in products later added stupid explanations making no sense either but at least filling the 30 year gap between RotJ and TFA. The end of RotJ is no shorthand for the defeat... why do you and as you claim Abrams and Disney follow the logic of a 5 year old and see one big victory as the defeat of the whole Empire? Dont you see how stupid and wrong that is to say such a thing for a Saga happening in a UNIVERSE of thousands planets which were almost all under control of the Empire!
  2. You are sadly wrong! The films established the senate (dissolved in Ep 4) and thousands of worlds under Imperial control. Just one victory against the big bad on Endor still leaves all the other fleets, systems, sectors intact under imperial control. All the sector moffs, governeurs and imperial commanders are still alive and still have their power. They just don't have that unified leader anymore, whichs starts the real fall of the empire! Maybe you should rewatch the films.
  3. No, it's really the beginning of the fall of the Empire. The first decisive victory that has any real consequence! I agree, i only mentioned the books AS BETTER examples of a continuation AFTER RotJ than TFA and TLJ
  4. Say what you will but the Thrawn trilogy continued RotJ in the same tradition as the original sextett. RotJ also was no definitive conclusion because the Empire was not defeated. They were still the controlling power in the universe. The big evil leader, his henchman a super weapon and a fleet were destroyed. All the other fleets, armies, planets, etc... still were in control by the Empire by Governeurs, Moffs and other military commanders. On some planets the people started rebelling against the authorities but RotJ was only the beginning of the fall of the Empire. So i don't get your point.... RotJ itself can therefore by your logic also be seen as the "Start" of the real fall of the Empire as the controlling power -> that means a beginning of a story and not the ending! That says excatly nothing, nothing is absolute! He still had this story group and the department and in 95% of the cases they made sure it was complying with in-world logic...
  5. He did oversee it and as i said previously in this thread, there was his story group and an own department, which controlled and made sure all stories make sense in the SW universe and comply with the in-world logic!
  6. @Chen G. I agree with you that the film should make sense without needing any tie in books! But i disagree with your statement that the proven great stories of old starwars canon couldn't be a satisfying film continuation/adaption just because they are books. As i said book series like the Thrawn Trilogy have perfect worldbuilding, influenced the film series a great deal (Coruscant first appeared in the Thrawn trilogy) and made complete sense in terms of in-universe logic. All in all this only proves how much Disney fucked up TFA and TLJ! That was the first thing released! No one cares about the behind the scenes story there. In the eyes of the public this is how Starwars started (apart from trailers and other promotions).
  7. Again, SW started as a book series. So books do count. And the film turned out very well. Which proves that also the Thrawn trilogy could have been adapted very well and not feel "tacked on".
  8. Books don't count! This is a film series, its a completely different medium! That makes no sense at all, sry! It is about the story!!! Besides, you know that for every film a screenplay is written -> thats like a book. Did you know that for Episode 4 the book (written by GL) was released before the film was released in 1977. So it started as a book series.
  9. The old canon proved that it was possible to develop the saga further without any rehashing -> with exciting not stupid introduction of completely "NEW" story elements They managed to keep it in the universe and in-world logic even though RotJ was a natural conclusion. -> See Thrawn Trilogy The third act of the old canon was not three films long -> it was countless of book series long which would result in countless new films. So i dont get your point Chen... again, the old canon proves its possible to continue after RotJ in an exciting new way while still keeping the in-world logic. Such things are explained in countless of tie in books all released in the George Lucas days. GL had an own department who controlled all stories to make sense in the SW universe to comply with the in-world logic!
  10. Thank you for your valuable contribution to this thread and to the discussion!
  11. Have you forgotten our conversation? You replied to my review of the film with a comment how the mechanism of the world basically is not important. Now in your upper post you say continuity is important. You contradict yourself...
  12. I did, the Starwars fandom just remained from my youth. So these emotions just break out when i see how Disney manages to destroy the Starwars Saga with TFA and to a much higher extent TLJ. Certainly made it much easier to say goodbye to this new Disney Parody Universe! Why do you even care? You said yourself its just a space opera for kids. If you really are interested in these points (which i don't believe), i have listed these flaws in another thread in response to my viewing of the film, just search for my comments (i'm not online very much these days, so you don't need to scroll back very far)
  13. If you have a "franchise" of films and you operate in the same world, you have to follow the logic and rules of the world, which means worldbuilding. If a filmmaker for the sake of the narrative and his/her own ego bends or diregards these rules and invalidates all other films of the franchise set in the same world, the whole thing is fucked up -> then this film stands on rotten ground, its only pretty on the surface (the casual viewers only see the surface and like it). Thats what fans notice and criticise and this ultimately makes or breaks a franchise! -> its called in world logic Thats also why George Lucas spend so much effort with his story group to keep everything tied to the same logic and universe. Disney then fucked all of that up (although the new story group tried to invent incredibly stupd explanations for the TFA and TLJ, just so any of the tie in story would be possible. Most fans just dont buy these half assed explanations) Worldbuilding is the most important thing of a franchise! So i fundamentally disagree with you Chen. If everybody would disregard all the worldbuilding, people would lose interest in any franchises, film series... the real fandom would die!
  14. As i said, you are exactly such casual viewers (see Quote). I at least cant be such a superficial viewer that anything pretty and new will satisfy me. If TLJ at least had any Worldbuilding and would make sense in the SW universe, but sadly nope. It just exists in an isolated bubble with the first order fleet and no name planets, while the rest of the galaxy is reduced to the opening crawl and non answered signals by alleged and never be heard nor seen of allies in the Outer Rim! Talk about making sense here ...... what a cop out
  15. Yes, this is the point: considered in the context of the SW universe, I did not find it disappointing. It could have been better, for sure, but there are other entries in the franchise that I consider much worse, also in the plot. It is ok to expect something better, but frankly, this movie was bashed in an excessive way almost everywhere on the internet. I found the aggressive reaction of many fans to be disproportionate to the flaws of the movie. You consider other entries worse in the plot than TLJ? You can only mean the Ewok films or the holiday special because all the other starwars films have a miles better plot (except TFA which has a shit plot, but still better than TLJ). Maybe if you switch off your brain completely during TLJ you could consider the plot ok. TLJ was the greatest dissappointment i have ever experienced in terms of Starwars. It was a complete trainwreck of a movie, which completely disregarded the story- and worldbuilding of the SW Universe just to satisfy Rian Johnsons desire for stupid pseudo twists that make neither sense nor are in any ways exciting. It was juts a huge huge letdown in all respects... almost a starwars parody! Sorry but that statement makes no sense at all! Face the facts, TLJ is a very bad starwars film and the worst of all saga films by far! Exactly, i agree. TLJ seems to only be good for casual viewers who switch off their brains, ignore the myriad of plot holes, the missing in universe logic and non-existing worldbuilding -> exactly the audience who loves all the marvel films where any logic long was thrown overboard for the cheap thrills