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While there are many to choose from across the three films, what do you think was the absolute worst? For me it's easy...the scene where the Laketown survivors turn into a mob and try to murder Alfrid and Bard has to stop them. It's not that I have any love for Alfrid, I despise the character, but having a mob of common folk try to murder one of their own is about the most un-Tolkien like thing I can think of. The scene just rubs me the wrong way every time I see it, and reminds me off how far from the source material they let these movies stray. There are lots of other candidates of course...any scene with the Master & Alfrid, or Kili & Tauriel, etc. But what are the worst? If you can't pick just one, the worst from each movie is OK.

I am assuming that the Tolkien Estate is not happy with Peter Jackson for whatever reason, but if the novel is ever made into movie or, more likely, a series, should the producers bring in Howard Shore to the do the music and how would any composer approach "Ainulindalë" chapter of the novel?

Vote now, to settle this dispute once and for all... or not.

Including the alternate versions of the FOTR prologue, we have eight(!) main titles from Howard Shore's Middle-Earth scores. I'm curious to see which ones people find their favorite. Personally, I would rank them as such: The Lord of the Rings: 1. Roots and Beginnings 2. One Ring to Rule Them All 3. Foundations of Stone 4. One Ring to Rule Them All (Alternate) 5. The Prophecy The Hobbit: A. Fire and Water 2. My Dear Frodo D. The Quest for Erebor Edit: New poll is now public poll.

I don't understand why the Hobbit/LotR EE are approved by fans without reservations when the SW Special Editions are viewed as a sacrilege and defile the "theatrical editions" Isn't it the same idea? Isn't Peter Jackson basically identical to George Lucas?

Which, in your opinion, is the most lacklustre entry out of the three most recent franchise prestige damaging movies? I would say AUJ by a considerable margin. Not only is it a shoe-in for the most visually repellent big budget movie of all time, but it also went out of its way to out-bloat the entire LotR EEs and King Kong put together. Never has there been such redundancy in moving pictures and such disrespect for the art of editing. And on top of all that you have a regurgitated and tedious score which makes James Horner look like Morrissey. Edit: I've changed my mind to Battle of the Five Armies after seeing it today.

Which is your favorite dwarf out of the company of Thorin Oakenshield?

So now when we have the last Hobbit score i'm curious which score you guys prefer in both of the trilogies. Of course the choice might change if we ever get complete recordings of the Hobbit but please vote on what you feel right now based on all the material we have and have heard in the films. I LOVE all the scores myself and to me it is very hard to pick my favourites since I feel that all of the scores have their assets. If you want you can write how you personally would rank the scores. This is how I would rank the scores right now (I feel that my opinion might change in the future): The Lord of the Rings trilogy - 1. The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King 2. The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring 3. The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers The Hobbit trilogy - 1. The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies 2. The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug 3. The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey This was very hard for me to do since all of the scores are 5/5 scores to me...

I'm listening to Billy Boyd's song. And it's beginning to really hit me that this is the end of something significant. I can still remember when I was five or six when my father gave me his copies of Tolkien's work. It's always been such a deep part of our relationship, and of our whole family. Reading the books together, talking about them, being surprised and thrilled when the films were announced. Luckily they were winter releases so I was around to see them with everyone. We went so many times to each. Those films changed my life fundamentally. When we all congregate at my brother's house in a few weeks, I'm bringing the DVDs and we're all going to watch them together again, this time with some added wives and daughters and sons. We'll see this last installment together too. I'm getting a little bit weepy typing this. I'm just glad that I was around for all of this, that I got to share it with people in the ways that I did, that it moved my life in the right direction in so many ways. Whether or not I or any of us get to see more of Middle-Earth brought to life some day, we got this much, and it's been beautiful. Boyd's song is a farewell to all of that, from a man also undoubtedly hugely changed by it. What must Peter Jackson, Ian McKellen, Howard Shore, Ian Holm... all of them, what must they be feeling as this comes to an end? I think now I need to drink too much ale and smoke a few pipes, in the Professor's name.

So, since reviews are coming in, I thought a film discussion thread would be appropriate.

Well we know for sure that it's being recorded in New Zealand again. On August 9th, Conrad Pope checked in on Facebook "Waiting to board. Next stop breezy, lovely Wellington" (link). On August 13th, he checked in at the Museum Art Hotel in Wellington, NZ, saying "Working and working and .....working" (link). And earlier today, JoAnne Kane Music Service posted "Air New Zealand to Auckland. Middle earth here we come!" (link). I haven't found anything on Doug's twitter feed about him being in either NZ or NY, though. ANYWAY, I hope everyone is excited for this score as much as I am! It will be the culmination of not only The Hobbit's story, but the entire LOTR/TH series as a whole. I expect we'll hear definitive versions of themes such as Smaug, Erebor, Thorin, House Of Durin, The Arkenstone, Tauriel, Tauriel/Kili, Girion and Lake-town. There will probably be a bunch of new themes, though I except less new themes than either of the prior scores introduced, and less than ROTJ introduced. The only major new character not yet introduced is Dain Ironfoot, and it's possible his thematic material was already introduced in AUJ (heard in the tracks "An Unexpected Party" [3:43] and "The Dwarf Lords". Beyond that, there could be a theme for The White Council (when Gandalf, Saruman, Galadriel, Elrond, and Radagast fight Sauron in Dol Guldur). There could be a new theme, or new variation on existing Sauron material for Azog and Bolg's orc and warg army. There could be a new theme for the eagles, maybe one for the Lake-town men in battle. There could be some kind of overacting theme for the Battle of Five Armies itself too. I think it's very likely we'll finally get to hear the full Beorn theme that was only hinted at in DOS too (the recent published sheet music show how it continues from what's used in the score to a cool ending reminiscent of Nature's Reclamation) I think the big question is which of the great themes introduced in AUJ that were completely dropped in DOS will return in BOFA? One of the coolest and most radically different from the sound of LOTR themes in AUJ was Radagast's Theme, which was completely absent from DOS despite his character returning. Will we hear it in BOFA? Bilbo had 3 major themes in AUJ - his Main Theme aka Baggins/Took Theme, his Adventure Theme, and his Fussy theme. Only the latter two returned, and only in small cameos. Will he hear the definite conclusion of his main theme? Shore wrote a great theme for Thorin's Company for the first film that was mostly replaced by Misty Mountains. Will either return in Part 3? What else can we expect from BOFA? What scenes from the book are people most looking forward to hearing the score for?

Its that time again, this time though, the CR presentation is nearly perfect. "Foundations of Stone" or Analyzing the Two Towers CR The 13th day of August in the the year 2014, by Shire reckoning. JWfan, the Shire...Middle-Earth. The Third Age of this world. Now, where to begin? Ah, yes. Concerning Edits.... Disc I Glamdring Complete Elven Rope This track contains the EE title music, the rarities has an early choral version. The TTT score featurette might feature an alternate version of 1:12 to 1:58 that uses the Fellowship theme. Lost In Emyn Muil The Lord of the Rings: Tactics has the theatrical version without the music for the EE scene of Frodo and Sam in the rain. The CR has a hybrid of the film version and the early choral version at 1:26, the full early version can be found on the Rarities disc. My Precious The CR has the EE ending, the OST track "The Passage of the Marshes" has the theatrical ending. Ugluk's Warriors The CR has the EE version, the theatrical version is unreleased. The CR/EE version has more "thudding" percussion and is slightly longer, while the TE version has more "clashy" percussion, for another example of this, compare the ending of Ugluk's Warriors, to the similar music in the Rarities track "The Eaves of Fangorn". The Three Hunters The CR uses the EE version of the revised version, in the film the very end of the OST track "The Uruk-Hai" is present at approximately 4:40 (or atleast material that sounds almost exactly like it). The OST uses a brassier alternate of the statement of the Rohan theme at 1:30. The Rarities has an early version of the track that instead of transitioning to the Isengard material, transitions into the chase across the plains of Rohan, and concludes with alternates of the "Night Camp" material. In the EE 5:33 to the end of the track was dialed out. The Live to Projection version of this track has various changes The Banishment of Eomer The CR features the EE opening, 0:40 to 2:52 is the EE insert, The Third Age video game has the TE version.. 2:52 to the end of the CR track is the film version, that uses the Fellowship theme and more of the "thudding" percussion, the Rarities features an alternate that uses the Isengard theme and the "clashy" percussion. Night Camp The CR has the EE film version, The Rarities has an alternate using the Ent theme. The Rarities version of the Orc argument is the theatrical version. The Rarities has an alternate for the "Look's Like Meat's Back on the Menu Boys!" section. The Rarities track also has two alternate endings, none of all three released endings were used in the film. The Plains of Rohan Complete! Fangorn Complete! The Dead Marshes The CR has the EE insert from 1:00 to 1:43. Wraiths on Wings Complete! Gandalf The White The CR features an edited down version of the EE transition (a short statement of the Ent theme was edited out at approximately 3:37) to the revised Shadowfax music, the OST has the (unused) theatrical transition. The TTT Fan-club credits features an alternate of Gandalf's Reveal (2:11 of the CR track) The OST track Forth Eorlingas features an intermediate version of Gandalf's Arrival where he "took a little longer to say hello" The OST track The White Rider features an alternate of the Shadowfax music that uses the Counterpoint to The White Rider theme. The Dreams of Trees Complete! The Heir of Numenor The CR track features the cue for the EE scene of Gandalf and Aragorn discussing Sauron, and Frodo and Sam. Ent-Draught Complete! END OF DISC I DISC II Edoras CR has a mix of two versions of the opening, the OST has the fiddle version isolated, and the EE DVD Scene Selections Menu has the film version. The EE DVD Music Appendix has the gong hit for Eowyn's disappearance The Live to Projection version of this track has various changes The Court of Meduseld Complete Théoden King The CR has the EE version, the OST has the TE version The King's Decision Complete Exodus of Edoras The CR has an EE insert from 0:00 to 3:19. The Forests of Ithilien The CR has an EE insert at 5:17, the Return of the King game has the TE version. One of the Dunedain The CR has the EE version, the Return of the King game has the TE film version The Wolves of Isengard The CR has the film version, the OST has an alternate The Live to Projection version of this track has various changes Refuge at Helm's Deep The CR has the EE insert, The OST has the TE version The Voice of Saruman Complete Arwen's Fate Complete, The EE Scene Selections menu has the film edit The Story Foretold Complete Sons of the Steward CR has the EE version Rock and Pool Complete Faramir's Good Council CR has the film edit, the OST has the full recording (?). END OF DISC II DISC III Aragorn's Return Complete War is Upon Us Complete "Where is the Horse and the Rider?" CR has the EE version, OST has the TE version The Host of the Eldar Complete The Battle of the Hornburg Complete The Breach of the Deeping Wall Complete The Entmoot Decides The TTT score featurette might feature an alternate version of 0:59 - 1:25 that uses the Fellowship theme Retreat Complete Master Peregrin's Plan Complete The Last March of the Ents The CR has an alternate, The Third Age game, The Rarities, and the EE DVD Music Appendix have the film version. The EE DVD Music Appendix has additional brass, the LOTR symphony has this as well. The Nazgûl Attack Complete Théoden Rides Forth The CR has the film version, The EE DVD Fan Club Credits has an alternate without the choir at 0:43, different brass at 0:47, and without Ben Del Maestro at 1:15. The OST has a clean ending of 0:00 to 2:03, and a louder mix of Ben Del Maestro The Tales That Really Matter CR has the EE film version, OST has the TE film version. The EE DVD Music Appendix has the original version "Long Ways to Go Yet" CR has the film version of the End Credits, OST has an alternate. The Live to Projection version of this track has various changes END OF DISC III Unsolved Mysteries Is the unused fellowship theme statement from the EE DVD Music Appendix an alternate for Elven Rope or The Entmoot Decides? Why does 4:32 - 4:53 of "The Eaves of Fangorn" sound so much like the TE version of Ugluk's Warriors? Is the film/CR version of Faramir's Good Council a film edit with the extra music heard on the OST being dialed out? or is the OST track an alternate? Comparing the LOTR Symphony CD to the OST/CR. (Timestamps refer mostly to the OST tracks, some timestamps refer to the CR when applicable) DISC II MOVEMENT III The Foundations of Stone/Glamdring The LOTR symphony uses the first minute and 42 seconds of Foundations of Stone/Glamdring and segues to... The Taming of Smeagol/Lost In Emyn Muil The Symphony uses the last minute and 45 seconds of The Taming of Smeagol, with additional Shakers in the orchestration under the statement of Gollum's menace and more prominent woodwinds during the bit for Gollum releasing Sam. The Riders of Rohan/The King's Decision and Exodus from Edoras The Symphony uses 57-3:56 of The Riders of Rohan and segues to... The Black Gate Is Closed/The Heir of Numenor The Symphony uses the OST version, but with the section at 1:14-1:18 removed. Evenstar/One of the Dunedain The Symphony uses 2:15-5:05 of the CR track, with 3:38-4:08 removed, more prominent Cor Anglais (and no flute?) at 4:08-4:32, and a clean opening of the Rivendell theme at 2:15. The Symphony then segues to.... The White Rider/Gandalf the White The Symphony uses the TE version (CR and OST "hybrid"). Treebeard/War Is Upon Us and Fangorn The Symphony uses a shortened version of the OST track, and segues to... The Forbidden Pool/The Forests of Ithilien, Rock and Pool, and Faramir's Good Council. The Symphony uses a shortened version of the OST track, with extra orchestration at 0:45-1:07, more prominent cymbal at 2:26-2:33, and more prominent Cor Anglais at 2:56-3:40 END OF DISC II MOVEMENT III DISC II MOVEMENT IV The Hornburg/The Battle of the Hornburg. The Symphony uses 3:03-End of the OST track, with more prominent strings, additional (or differently pitched) strings at 3:56-4:08, and an extra aleatoric brass bit (cluster?) at 4:04-4:09. The Symphony then segues to... Forth Eorlingas/Theoden Rides Forth The Symphony uses the OST track, and segues to... Isengard Unleashed/The Last March of the Ents and Theoden Rides Forth. The Symphony uses the OST track, with the extra brass at 2:18-3:16, and more prominent brass throughout. Gollum's Song/Long Ways To Go Yet The Symphony uses the OST track 0:00-3:55, I don't know if it uses the altered lyrics of the Live to Projection version. END OF DISC II MOVEMENT IV Sources Jim Ware's TTT OST/CR Breakdown and Comparison: http://www.lyndhursthouse.plus.com/ttt_ost_breakdown.pdf Jim Ware's TTT Live to Projection Notes: http://www.metronomical.co.uk/ttt_live_notes.pdf

1:42-2:00. Those "dense minor harmonies" as Doug calls them have always transfixed me. Anyone want to venture an analysis? Bonus points for getting the voicings correct and not just deciphering each harmony's type.

Hiya gang. Just like last year, with the The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey FILM Discussion Thread, we are creating this thread so people who have seen the film can discuss it (or people who are reading spoilers can discuss them openly), which leaves the existing The Hobbit Film Trilogy Thread clean for those wishing to avoid spoilers until they've seen the film. So, spoiler-filled discussion of the film here, anticipation of the film including new commercials, trailers, posters, promos, ticket purchasing, etc talk there. Enjoy!

The Themes of Howard Shore’s The Hobbit Compiled by Jason LeBlanc Copyright 2014 Jason LeBlanc Do not copy without my express permission. Themes (In order of appearance) RETURNING FROM THE LORD OF THE RINGS The Shire AUJ 1-01 0:52-1:11 AUJ 1-02 0:00-0:57 AUJ 1-07 1:38-1:47 AUJ 2-05 1:37-2:08 AUJ 2-14 0:45-1:01 DOS 1-01 0:49-1:04 DOS 2-07 0:09-0:32 The Hobbit Outline AUJ 1-02 0:24-0:45 Hobbits (Doug’s name: The Shire Rural Setting) AUJ 1-02 1:03-1:21 AUJ 1-02 1:51-2:26 Smoke Rings AUJ 1-02 2:26-2:41 Gandalf’s Fireworks AUJ 1-02 3:41-3:50 AUJ 1-02 3:55-4:04 Hobbit Mischief AUJ 1-07 1:15-1:24 Sauron’s Descending Thirds AUJ 1-10 4:49-5:51 (Necromancer Variation) AUJ 1-14 1:41-1:49 (Necromancer Variation) AUJ 2-04 0:36-0:48 AUJ 2-04 5:53-6:06 (Necromancer Variation) AUJ 2-04 6:16-6:40 (Necromancer Variation) DOS 1-03 0:55-1:11 (Necromancer Variation) DOS 1-03 2:09-2:27 DOS 1-04 1:30-1:40 (Necromancer Variation) DOS 1-04 3:45-4:11 (Necromancer Variation) DOS 2-05 0:11-0:31 DOS 2-05 1:31-1:34 DOS 2-05 2:03-2:10 DOS 2-05 2:36-3:08 DOS 2-10 1:11-1:33 (Necromancer Variation) DOS 2-10 1:33-1:49 DOS 2-10 2:48-2:51 DOS 2-11 3:20-3:26 (Bolg Variation?) DOS 2-11 3:34-3:48 (Bolg Variation?) DOS 2-11 7:56-7:59 DOS 2-11 8:08-8:10 DOS 2-12 4:32-4:33 DOS 2-12 4:47-4:49 Sauron’s Theme AUJ 1-10 6:22-6:36 AUJ 1-14 3:10-3:23 (New Variation) AUJ 2-04 8:06-8:29 (New Variation) DOS 1-03 1:27-1:43 (New Variation) DOS 1-04 3:49-3:59 DOS 1-05 1:12-1:37 DOS 2-05 2:36-2:53 A Hobbit’s Understanding AUJ 1-14 0:08-0:33 Lothlórien AUJ 1-15 2:28-2:41 AUJ 2-04 3:50-4:26 AUJ 2-05 0:47-1:04 Rivendell AUJ 2-01 0:59-1:56 AUJ 2-01 2:11-2:24 AUJ 2-04 0:00-0:32 AUJ 2-04 0:52-1:30 Isengard AUJ 2-04 4:38-4:50 The History of the Ring AUJ 2-08 0:14-0:30 AUJ 2-08 0:46-1:03 AUJ 2-08 2:34-2:47 AUJ 2-09 0:41-0:59 DOS 1-06 6:43-7:08 DOS 1-08 2:20-2:32 Gollum’s Menace AUJ 2-08 1:44-1:58 AUJ 2-08 2:04-2:08 The Pity of Gollum AUJ 2-08 4:22-4:36 AUJ 2-09 5:14-5:29 Nature’s Reclamation AUJ 2-10 1:58-2:08 The Witch King Of Angmar’s Theme AUJ 2-17 2:23-2:52 Bree DOS 1-01 1:04-1:17 Footsteps of Doom DOS 1-13 0:40-1:02 DOS 1-13 1:37-1:42 Elven Healing DOS 2-09 1:56-2:08 Elven Heroics DOS 2-11 5:00-5:14 INTRODUCED IN AN UNEXPECTED JOURNEY House of Durin AUJ 1-01 0:00-0:37 (History of the Ring combo version) AUJ 2-11 0:32-0:46 (History of the Ring combo version) AUJ 2-04 3:00-3:22 DOS 1-01 0:41-0:48 (Final 4 notes only) DOS 2-02 3:07-4:10 DOS 2-04 0:00-0:48 DOS 2-05 1:11-1:24 DOS 2-11 5:49-6:37 DOS 2-13 0:54-1:17 DOS 2-13 1:51-1:56 DOS 2-13 3:06-3:22 Bilbo’s Adventure Theme AUJ 1-01 0:37-0:52 AUJ 1-08 0:12-0:41 AUJ 1-08 0:41-0:55 (Company Variation) AUJ 2-11 3:25-3:41 AUJ 2-14 0:00-0:31 AUJ 2-15 0:00-0:25 (Company Variation) AUJ 2-15 0:39-1:01 (Company Variation) DOS 1-09 0:00-0:13 Erebor AUJ 1-01 1:57-2:17 AUJ 1-01 5:44-5:52 AUJ 1-05 0:55-1:13 AUJ 1-05 1:53-2:13 AUJ 1-15 2:06-2:28 AUJ 2-02 0:58-1:18 AUJ 2-02 3:07-3:17 AUJ 2-11 1:22-1:30 AUJ 2-11 4:10-4:42 DOS 1-04 4:31-4:41 DOS 1-06 1:28-1:32 DOS 1-11 1:28-1:33 DOS 2-03 0:18-0:26 DOS 2-03 1:53-2:08 DOS 2-04 1:01-1:26 DOS 2-06 0:45-0:53 (New Variation) DOS 2-06 3:16-3:33 (Opening Notes) DOS 2-06 5:20-5:40 (New Variation) DOS 2-11 1:01-1:10 (New Variation) Thorin’s Theme AUJ 1-01 2:17-2:40 AUJ 1-01 5:34-5:44 AUJ 1-05 0:00-0:21 AUJ 1-05 0:29-0:55 AUJ 1-05 1:30-1:34 AUJ 1-05 2:13-2:27 AUJ 1-05 2:46-3:03 AUJ 1-09 1:54-2:01 AUJ 1-09 2:52-3:01 AUJ 1-09 3:57-4:18 AUJ 2-02 2:42-3:07 AUJ 2-05 0:21-0:39 AUJ 2-05 3:15-3:25 AUJ 2-11 0:46-0:51 AUJ 2-11 4:42-4:50 DOS 1-01 1:42-1:50 (Shortened) DOS 1-10 3:28-3:46 DOS 1-14 1:09-1:18 DOS 2-03 0:08-0:13 (First 2 notes) DOS 2-03 1:05-1:13 DOS 2-03 2:08-2:23 DOS 2-06 0:53-0:58 DOS 2-06 2:31-2:40 (Opening notes) DOS 2-06 3:02-3:16 (Opening notes) DOS 2-06 4:55-5:20 DOS 2-06 5:42-5:50 DOS 2-06 6:27-7:08 DOS 2-11 6:37-6:44 DOS 2-13 3:40-3:56 The Arkenstone AUJ 1-01 3:03-3:21 AUJ 1-05 2:38-2:46 DOS 1-02 0:16-0:19 DOS 2-06 7:08-7:28 DOS 2-10 0:35-0:41 DOS 2-12 3:24-3:32 The Woodland Realm AUJ 1-01 3:23-3:32 DOS 1-04 1:18-1:30 DOS 1-06 7:32-7:41 (Legolas Variation) DOS 1-07 0:36-0:50 DOS 1-07 0:50-1:05 (B Section) DOS 1-07 3:25-3:44 (Dark Variation) DOS 1-07 3:44-4:06 (B Section) DOS 1-07 4:09-4:16 DOS 1-10 1:26-1:29 (Legolas Variation) DOS 1-10 1:32-1:38 (Legolas Variation) DOS 1-10 3:56-4:10 (Legolas Variation) DOS 1-10 4:10-4:16 (B Section) DOS 1-13 0:00-0:40 (Dark Variation) DOS 2-02 1:46-2:14 DOS 2-02 2:20-2:40 DOS 2-02 2:00-2:14 (B Section) DOS 2-11 4:49-4:55 (Legolas Variation) DOS 2-11 5:14-5:30 (Legolas Variation) DOS 2-11 5:41-5:46 (Legolas Variation) DOS 2-11 8:28-8:38 (Legolas Variation) DOS 2-11 8:57-9:02 (Legolas Variation) DOS 2-11 9:31-9:41 (Legolas Variation) DOS 2-15 1:46-2:36 Smaug’s A Theme AUJ 1-01 4:16-4:34 AUJ 1-01 4:57-5:11 AUJ 1-01 6:06-6:16 AUJ 2-11 5:27-5:44 DOS 1-02 1:11-1:21 DOS 1-13 2:01-2:09 DOS 2-04 1:44-1:57 DOS 2-08 0:07-0:09 (first two notes) DOS 2-08 0:33-0:38 (first two notes) DOS 2-08 0:53-1:00 DOS 2-08 1:20-1:28 DOS 2-08 1:57-2:03 DOS 2-08 2:17-2:25 DOS 2-08 2:41-2:56 DOS 2-10 0:41-0:46 DOS 2-10 1:02-1:07 DOS 2-10 3:22-3:27 DOS 2-11 0:28-0:46 DOS 2-11 1:10-1:32 DOS 2-12 0:43-0:45 DOS 2-12 1:21-1:25 DOS 2-12 4:34-4:35 DOS 2-12 5:02-5:08 DOS 2-13 0:30-0:36 DOS 2-13 1:19-1:29 DOS 2-13 2:34-2:44 DOS 2-13 4:35-4:41 Smaug’s B Theme AUJ 1-01 4:57-5:11 AUJ 1-05 1:33-1:53 DOS 1-02 1:11-1:21 DOS 1-03 0:02-0:29 DOS 2-04 1:30-1:44 DOS 2-08 0:38-1:02 DOS 2-08 2:03-2:17 DOS 2-10 0:20-0:25 DOS 2-10 0:54-1:02 DOS 2-10 3:09-3:22 DOS 2-12 0:34-1:16 DOS 2-12 2:34-2:46 DOS 2-12 4:26-4:34 DOS 2-12 4:39-4:51 DOS 2-13 2:18-2:34 DOS 2-13 3:56-4:04 DOS 2-13 4:10-4:34 DOS 2-13 4:41-5:09 Thorin’s Pride AUJ 1-01 6:29-7:00 AUJ 1-01 7:22-7:47 AUJ 1-13 0:44-0:56 AUJ 1-13 1:50-2:03 AUJ 1-13 2:14-2:19 DOS 1-06 8:37-8:56 DOS 1-07 0:00-0:11 DOS 1-07 2:21-2:43 Bilbo’s Odd Behavior Theme AUJ 1-02 1:30-1:51 AUJ 1-02 4:05-4:18 Gandalf The Grey’s Theme AUJ 1-02 3:32-3:41 AUJ 1-03 0:30-0:35 AUJ 1-03 2:13-2:22 AUJ 1-10 0:00-0:16 AUJ 1-10 0:16-0:37 (B Section) AUJ 1-12 3:54-3:59 AUJ 1-12 4:42-4:45 AUJ 1-13 1:47-1:50 DOS 1-01 2:30-2:44 DOS 2-05 1:45-1:51 Bilbo’s Fussy Theme AUJ 1-03 1:51-2:05 AUJ 1-08 0:55-1:08 AUJ 1-12 0:27-0:38 AUJ 2-14 1:01-1:19 DOS 1-09 0:22-0:31 DOS 2-01 2:59-3:17 The Dwarf Lords AUJ 1-03 3:43-4:04 (B Section) AUJ 2-16 0:00-0:37 AUJ 2-16 0:57-1:35 AUJ 2-16 1:35-1:57 (B Section) Bilbo’s Baggins/Took Theme AUJ 1-05 4:42-5:03 (Baggins) AUJ 1-05 5:03-5:22 (Took) AUJ 1-05 5:22-5:41 (B Section) AUJ 1-05 5:41-5:53 (End cap) AUJ 1-07 1:03-1:15 (B Section) AUJ 2-04 1:30-1:58 (Baggins) AUJ 2-04 1:58-2:23 (Took) AUJ 2-11 3:41-3:50 (B Section) AUJ 2-13 0:09-0:32 (Baggins) AUJ 2-13 0:32-0:52 (Took) AUJ 2-13 0:52-1:12 (B Section) AUJ 2-13 1:12-1:48 (End Cap) AUJ 2-14 0:31-0:45 (Took) The Company’s Main Theme AUJ 1-08 1:28-2:01 AUJ 1-12 2:22-2:31 AUJ 2-02 0:39-0:58 AUJ 2-05 0:00-0:21 AUJ 2-05 2:22-3:15 AUJ 2-17 0:49-1:04 The Company’s Journey Theme AUJ 1-08 2:01-2:16 AUJ 2-17 0:00-0:48 Azog’s Theme (Descending Thirds Variation) AUJ 1-09 0:57-1:03 AUJ 1-09 4:35-4:43 AUJ 2-03 0:03-0:09 AUJ 2-03 0:17-0:23 AUJ 2-03 0:53-1:01 AUJ 2-06 3:36-3:48 AUJ 2-07 1:06-1:21 AUJ 2-10 2:11-2:15 DOS 1-03 1:11-1:18 DOS 1-10 4:32-4:35 DOS 1-13 2:43-2:58 The Necromancer’s Theme (Skip-Beat or Threat of Mordor Variation?) AUJ 1-10 6:09-6:22 AUJ 1-14 2:49-2:59 AUJ 2-04 7:41-8:06 DOS 1-03 1:44-1:53 DOS 1-03 2:27-2:46 DOS 1-04 2:36-3:22 DOS 1-12 2:01-2:10 DOS 1-12 2:35-2:39 DOS 1-12 2:44-2:58 DOS 2-05 0:37-0:49 The Corruption of Mirkwood AUJ 1-10 0:37-0:50 AUJ 1-10 1:12-1:39 AUJ 1-10 2:05-2:13 AUJ 2-04 6:40-7:30 Radagast’s Theme AUJ 1-10 0:50-1:12 AUJ 1-10 3:50-4:45 AUJ 1-14 0:46-0:57 AUJ 1-15 0:05-0:13 AUJ 1-15 0:59-1:08 Mirkwood Spiders Theme AUJ 1-10 2:40-2:53 DOS 1-06 1:53-1:59 The Troll’s Theme AUJ 1-11 1:34-1:57 AUJ 1-12 0:09-0:27 AUJ 1-12 0:53-1:04 AUJ 1-12 1:12-1:35 Bilbo’s Burglar Theme AUJ 1-12 4:08-4:22 AUJ 2-08 3:48-4:00 AUJ 2-09 4:40-4:58 The Warg Riders AUJ 1-15 0:00-0:05 AUJ 1-15 0:23-0:29 (Call) AUJ 1-15 0:29-0:34 AUJ 1-15 0:42-0:52 AUJ 1-15 1:11-1:16 AUJ 1-15 1:28-1:36 AUJ 2-10 0:19-0:29 AUJ 2-10 0:32-0:44 (Call) AUJ 2-10 0:53-1:03 AUJ 2-10 1:25-1:34 AUJ 2-10 1:43-1:44 AUJ 2-10 2:19-2:29 DOS 1-02 1:06-1:11 DOS 1-02 1:16-1:26 Moonlight Reveal AUJ 2-02 2:20-2:42 DOS 2-06 4:29-4:42 Goblins AUJ 2-07 0:08-0:36 (Brass Version) AUJ 2-07 0:38-0:57 AUJ 2-09 1:18-1:51 AUJ 2-09 2:28-2:42 AUJ 2-09 4:05-4:23 The High Fells AUJ 2-17 1:19-1:1:44 DOS 1-12 0:11-0:33 INTRODUCED IN DESOLATION OF SMAUG Desolation of Smaug Opening Logos Theme DOS 1-01 0:00-0:36 - Opening Logos Beorn’s Theme DOS 1-02 0:49-1:06 DOS 1-02 1:45-2:15 DOS 1-02 2:22-2:31 DOS 1-02 2:43-3:12 (Rhythm Only) DOS 1-02 4:11-4:50 DOS 1-04 1:49-2:08 DOS 1-04 2:24-2:36 Mirkwood DOS 1-04 1:02-1:18 DOS 1-05 0:10-0:36 DOS 1-05 1:46-2:23 DOS 1-05 2:45-3:01 DOS 1-05 3:10-3:16 DOS 1-05 3:31-3:38 DOS 1-05 3:58-4:13 DOS 1-06 0:10-0:26 (First 2 notes repeated) DOS 1-06 2:18-2:28 DOS 1-07 0:11-0:15 DOS 1-07 2:07-2:20 The Nine DOS 1-04 3:04-3:38 DOS 1-12 0:54-1:10 DOS 1-12 1:39-2:06 DOS 1-12 3:04-3:33 DOS 1-13 1:14-1:37 Tauriel’s Theme DOS 1-06 7:51-8:05 DOS 1-07 4:31-4:53 DOS 1-07 4:53-5:08 (B Section) DOS 1-08 0:16-0:17 DOS 1-10 1:10-1:26 DOS 1-10 1:29-1:32 DOS 1-10 1:38-1:44 (B Section) DOS 1-10 2:15-2:28 DOS 1-10 2:56-2:59 DOS 1-10 4:35-4:39 DOS 2-02 1:31-1:35 DOS 2-09 0:17-0:24 (B Section) DOS 2-11 5:00-5:14 (B Section) DOS 2-15 2:36-3:52 DOS 2-15 3:52-4:26 (B Section) DOS 2-15 4:26-4:50 DOS 2-15 4:50-5:22 (B Section) Tauriel and Kili’s Love Theme DOS 1-08 1:26-2:04 (A Section) DOS 1-08 2:04-2:18 (B Section) DOS 1-08 2:32-2:43 (A Section) DOS 2-09 0:24-1:17 (B Section) DOS 2-09 1:17-1:56 (A Section) DOS 2-15 0:00-1:02 (B Section) DOS 2-15 1:02-1:44 (A Section) Bard’s Theme DOS 1-11 0:09-0:36 DOS 1-11 2:34-2:41 DOS 1-14 0:03-0:18 DOS 1-14 0:46-1:04 DOS 2-01 1:28-2:04 DOS 2-02 2:44-3:00 DOS 2-03 1:22-1:44 DOS 2-11 1:32-1:59 DOS 2-11 1:59-2:15 (B Section) The Politicians of Lake-town DOS 1-11 2:56-3:12 DOS 1-14 2:28-2:50 DOS 1-14 2:50-3:05 (B Section) DOS 1-14 3:05-3:31 DOS 2-01 0:28-1:19 DOS 2-01 2:27-2:38 (Retrograde) DOS 2-03 2:45-3:00 (Inverted) DOS 2-11 0:18-0:28 Lake-town DOS 1-14 1:44-2:10 DOS 2-01 0:04-0:28 DOS 2-01 2:04-2:27 DOS 2-03 0:27-0:51 Bard’s Family DOS 2-01 2:43-2:52 Girion’s Theme DOS 2-02 0:18-0:58 DOS 2-11 0:46-1:01 Dragon Sickness DOS 2-04 1:57-2:10 DOS 2-10 0:00-0:20 DOS 2-10 2:00-2:37 DOS 2-10 3:04-3:34 DOS 2-12 0:14-0:24 DOS 2-12 4:05-5:02 DOS 2-13 2:04-2:34 Thrain’s Theme DOS 2-06 0:00-0:45

Me personally, I own the Standard and the WaterTower (US) version of An Unexpected Journey, and have pre-ordered the Standard and Special Edition (WaterTower US) versions of DOS from Amazon already. BTW, I've updated my spreadsheet showcasing the differences between the Standard and SE versions of both AUJ and DOS. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AjiRtgP4_o4TdHdFUExoRi1GMjlxRjl6V0hXY2JKU1E&output=html The important thing to note here is that unlike AUJ - which had some great music on the Standard OST that wans't present on the SE OST - the Standard version of DOS doesn't contain ANYTHING not found on the SE OST, apart from a short 7 second buildup that replaces a longer opening on the SE equivalent of the track (A Spell of Concealment). Vote now!

I noticed that there was not a guide on what cues contained film edits/tracking so I decided to make one: "A Conspiracy Unmasked" or Analyzing the Fellowship of the Ring CR The year 2013 of the Second Age. Here follows the account of Faleel, Manic Treasure Hunter of JWFan, and the finding of the unreleased music.... Disc One Prologue: One Ring To Rule Them All The CR has the film version, The OST and Rarities have different edits of the same alternate, The TE and EE DVD menus have the TE version There is a section of the cue microedited around 2:00, (the microedited section can be found in the scene selection menu) and sections of the cue that have the choir mixed out. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9Ym9BcjZlME1Tc1k/edit?usp=sharing The Shire This is the cue for the EE scene, it seems to be complete and free of film edits, but I could be wrong. Bag End This is the EE version of the scene of Frodo under the tree, the theatrical version is unreleased, though some of it can be ripped from the EE trailer on the TE special features. The CR has the music for the EE cut of the trip through Hobbiton, the OST has an alternate of the TE version, the EE Fan Club Credits has the film version edited down, the scale documentary has one of the microedited sections Very Old Friends Seems to be complete, with no film edits or microedits. Flaming Red Hair The CR version seems to be an alternate, the EE scene selections (and the ROTK EE appendices documentaries) seem to have an alternate opening.. Farewell Dear Bilbo Complete and unedited? Keep It Secret, Keep It Safe! The first half is complete until 4:00, though the EE special features have a clean ending without Holm's voiceover. The second half however, has a statement of the History of the Ring, tracked from Parth Galen, the original composition can be heard in the music featurette on the EE DVD and in the OST track "The Shadow of the Past" The choir for the Nine leaving Minas Morgul is mixed low in the CR. there is a loop around 6:23, and a microedit at 7:04, The Lord of the Rings The Third Age game files has microedited section. A Conspiracy Unmasked This track is what inspired me to write this. The first portion is complete (minus 1 second of a clean opening.), however a small section at 0:48 was tracked over/replaced with brass notes from later in the cue, the original section can be heard in the Middle-Earth atlas on the EE features (during the transition to Rivendell) and the TE DVD menus. One of the most interesting editing decisions on the FOTR CR is during Frodo and Gandalf's discussion of the One Ring, low brass play the Threat of Mordor, which is not on the CR, I believe the reason for this is because it would not flow naturally in to the History of the Ring theme, because this History theme statement is also tracked from Parth Galen! The original piece would have featured the Footsteps of Doom End-cap, and a bit of incidental music that reminds of the Original version of the Siege of Gondor (presented on the Rarities disc), this original composition can be heard in the EE documentary on the Costumes, during the Saruman section. A statement of the Threat of Mordor is not presented on the CR, the Third Age game has this statement. Three Is Company The CR has the film version, The OST has the TE version. The LOTR symphony version has singing instead of humming. The Passing of the Elves This cue is by Plan 9 and seems to be complete Saruman The White 1:00 has low male choir in the film, but the CR has this mixed low. Choir is dialed out at 3:09 (the intended choir can be found in the OST track "The Treason of Isengard"). A Shortcut To Mushrooms A portion at 1:44 is microedited down, the OST has the unmicroedited section. A bar is microedited out at 1:59, the TTT Video Game file 02G2GAL1 has this missing bar. The Live to Projection version of this track has an extra horn line There is an unreleased alternate to this cue, which was a shorter, more subdued take, parts of it can be found in the Previz of Gandalf riding to Isengard. and in the Middle-earth atlas (as a transition to The Trollshaws), the missing bar mentioned above could theoretically be part of this early version. Early Version (Partial): https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9eWRFdHJGWHU4VWc/edit?usp=sharing Strider 0:19-0:34 is tracked from later in the cue, this section was originally silent. The string sustain as the Hobbits try to decide what to do next is artificially extended. The Nazgul https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9R1A2UGZWTzhHMU0/edit?usp=sharing Music for the Ringwraiths trashing the Hobbit's beds is dialed out, this music can be found at 2:15 on the OST track 'At The Sign of the Prancing Pony' . 1:44 to 2:14 is tracked from Saruman The White, the actual composition can be found on the Rarities track 'To Rivendell' The CR ending (replacing the Isengard material heard in the aforementioned Rarities track) at 5:09 seems to be tracked from The Sword that was Broken as recorded for the TE End of Disc One Disc Two Weathertop The CR track has muted brass counterpoint mixed out, and choir is removed at 1:22. The Caverns of Isengard 0:44 has music tracked from earlier in the track, the choir is mixed low at 1:57 on the CR (the OST can be used for this portion) The music at 3:57 is the EE version, could be looped to fit the new EE footage, the waveforms do not provide any clues. The TE version is unreleased, The Live to Projection version of this track has various changes, including the original mix of the Nature theme statement Give Up The Halfling Complete, the OST and Rarities have alternates. The Live to Projection version of this track has various changes Orthanc Seems complete.. Rivendell Complete, OST contains an alternate. The Sword That Was Broken The ending on the CR is either edited down and pitch shifted, or a new recording done for the EE, the full original ending can be recreated from the TE DVD Special Features menu music and the end of The Nazgul from the CR The Live to Projection version has various changes The Council of Elrond Assembles Aniron is microedited, a small section could be looped.. The EE DVD Appendices Menus and documentaries have music dialed out in the TE and replaced in the EE The Great Eye 1:29 sounds like it might be tracked from the original A Shortcut to Mushrooms and slowed down. 4:32 might be a loop, The OST has an alternate for 4:39. Gilraen's Memorial The CR has the EE version, The OST has the TE version edited down, the Fellowship leaving Rivendell has the choir mixed low. The Live to Projection version has additional bell tree The Pass of Caradhras 4:53 to 4:57 is a loop made to fit the EE footage. The TTT game files have a brassier version of the Evil Times statement The Live to Projection version of this track has extra or louder choir The Doors of Durin Complete, contains the EE insert, the TE version is partially available via the TTT Video Game files 02G2IGC3 and 02G2IGC4, the rest is in the EE documentaries. Moria CR includes the EE inserts, the OST has the theatrical version. The end is microedited. The symphony version has extra instruments, extra singing, and a brassier ending. Gollum Complete? Balin's Tomb There are three microedits around 4:43, 4:47, and 5:10, these can be undone using the TTT or ROTK Video Game files. The Fan Club Credits have a clean opening for 7:34 of the track. The music after the Fellowship theme statement is the film edit, the OST track the full composition. The Live to Projection version of this track has various changes End of Disc Two Disc Three Khazad-Dum There are three microedits in the track: One at 2:01 The second at 3:33 The third at 4:07 These can be undone using the OST, and the TTT Game Files. Caras Galadhon CR has the EE version, OST has an edited down version of the TE version The Mirror of Galadriel The first phrase of the Lothlorien theme was edited out in order to condense the music to start at a later point in the footage, the microedited section can be found in the Scene Selection menus It is unclear if the music for Galadriel's reveal of Nenya was a edit, or a new recording. (this section is shorter on the OST though...) https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9VU9yekstRUNxYzg/edit?usp=sharing The Fighting Uruk-Hai The opening of the cue was edited out, and can be found on the Rarities. A brass statement of the Fellowship theme was dialed out and can be found on the OST The Symphony version of the Fellowship leaving Lorien uses the Choir over the Fellowship theme from the OST version, and an extra few seconds of choir later The Symphony version has a few extra seconds of music after the Ring Theme statement. The CR has the EE film version, The Rarities and OST have the TE original version Parth Galen Choir has been mixed out at 3:25. A second statement of the Seduction of the Ring was mixed out at 4:39. The music for Boromir's death is the EE version, the TE version can be found on the OST and in the TTT game files. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9LUZmVmNqa1prTWM/edit?usp=sharing The Live to Projection version of this track has various changes The Departure of Boromir The first few seconds of the track are edited out, the missing section can be found on the OST. The music for Aragorn's fight with Lurtz is the film edit, the Game files has the full composition (with some sections looped for Game purposes) The Live to Projection version of this track has extra choir The Road Goes Ever On.. Part 1 Complete. The Fan Club credits has an alternate, the OST has a slightly edited down version of the film version composition, but without the final humming coda. May It Be Might be complete, might be microedited, I have no idea, on the OST, May It Be comes after In Dreams. The Road Goes Ever On.. Part 2 The CR has the film edit, the OST has the full composition Comparing the Lord of the Rings Symphony CD to the OST/CR DISC I MOVEMENT I The Prophecy/Prologue: One Ring to Rule Them All (Original Version) Pretty much the same content as the OST track, however 1:02 of the LOTR Symphony combines the Cor Anglais from 3:58 of the version of the Prologue on the Rarities disc and the horn from 0:58 of The Prophecy on the OST. The rest of the prologue portion of the movement uses the CR/film version. Concerning Hobbits/The Shire and Bag End The Symphony uses a slightly shortened version of the OST track. The Treason of Isengard/Three Is Company The Seduction of the Ring is sung instead of hummed. The Journey There section is omitted, instead the music segues to.... The Black Rider/A Shortcut to Mushrooms The brass at 0:40 of the OST track is not in the Symphony version. There is music not in the OST track at 9:03 of the Symphony version. At 10:22 there is an additional descending horn line, however it is mixed very low, it can be heard more easily in these videos: At 9:52: At 1:47 Instead of resolving with the last note, the music instead segues into.... The Treason of Isengard/Saruman The White The Symphony uses the OST version. END OF DISC I MOVEMENT I DISC I MOVEMENT II Many Meetings/Rivendell The Symphony uses the OST Version with an extra or more prominent humming, and segues to... The Ring Goes South/Gilraen's Memorial The Symphony uses the EE Version, and segues to... A Journey In The Dark/Moria More prominent (extra?) Khuzdul singing, and harsh instrumentation, the Live to Projection version is similar, but less harsh. The Bridge of Khazad-Dum/Balin's Tomb The Symphony uses the OST track, with 5 seconds of percussion hits (similar to the clean opening of the film cue The Second Hall). Lothlorien/Caras Galadhon Seems to be TE and EE version hybrid, contains clean ending of "Lament for Gandalf" The Great River/The Fighting Uruk-Hai EE/OST Version Hybrid, contains extra music at 21:54. Amon Hen/Parth Galen EE Version The Breaking of the Fellowship/May It Be and The Road Goes Ever On Parts 1 and 2 OST version END OF DISC I MOVEMENT II Unsolved Mysteries What does the original version of A Shortcut to Mushrooms sound like? Is the bit of the Threat of Mordor for Gimli trying to destroy the One Ring in The Great Eye tracked? How much choral material are we missing? The End?

It is half a year away, Howard Shore's fifth entry in the world of Middle Earth. I figured this news finally warrants to start a discussion about the upcoming score. From Conrad Pope's Facebook page: Also, a man named Clifford J. Tasner is probably also on board:

I figured this poll thread would stop the endless poll threads.

Which do you prefer? The Choral powerhouse Sammath Naur? or the emotional replacement cues? choose wisely!

It'd been so long by now, but I've just been listening to the complete Grey Havens track (as heard on the CR) and it felt so fresh and moving to me; I was actually compelled to compare it with E.T.'s legendary farewell cue which too deals with exactly same themes as the LotR piece. Both have moved me to tears within their respective films and indeed outside of them as music in their own right. What's interesting though is there's a massive dramatic and stylistic gulf between the pieces - with E.T.'s cue being very much the full-on romanticised hit of sheer unabashed sentimentalism and RotK instead taking a far more tactile and reflective approach whose own melancholic flavour seems to work on more of a reflective, yearning level. It's a very gentle piece. The two cues are desperately bitter-sweet, but very different in terms of how they ultimately accomplish the same thing. Which do you prefer?

Is there any article, interview or any documented evidence to suggest JW has read LOTR, or possibly any of Tolkien's other works?

Here we go!

I'm sure many have noticed the structural similarity between the first part of Bilbo's adventure and the first part of Frodo's. But what about the music? For each of the 15 choices, vote for your favorite piece of music from the Peter Jackson movies. Ignore OST vs SE differences for AUJ pieces and OST vs CR vs Rarities differences for LOTR stuff, just vote by whatever your favorite version of each piece of music is. Have fun!

Now that I finally got to hear the OST - the score Shore intended for The Hobbit - I feel it was fairly disrespectful to replace much of this masterful and profound production with music pretty much copy and posted from the original LOTR soundtracks. The soundtrack is simply great and I wish it would have been preserved in the film. Then I wonder about The Phantom Menace. We all know how Williams' score was chopped up and butchered for the final act. But what if Lucas had taken a similar route Jackson took and had actually placed familiair music from ESB or ROTJ in TPM instead of Williams' newly written score...? What if Darth Maul's appearance would suddenly be put to The Imperial March, completely ignoring Williams' new material for the scene...? Would that be something like the Nazgul music supporting an important scene involving Thorin in The Hobbit? Well, at least The Hobbit got a proper official release. So which score do you feel got the most disrespect in the editing room...?