Original Star Wars trilogy on DVD this fall

[Sandor 797]

The puppet looked more like TESB Yoda then the CGI Yoda ever did.

That would be convenient, wouldn't it? If the only traditional effect from the prequels would be better than the CGI that dominates it?

But, considering that the quoted argument comes from someone who has repeatedly stated to not having seen TPM in over 6 years, it certainly adds a sense of bitterness to it (as Vaderbait pointed out).

The truth is simple: the CGI Yoda looks a 1000 times more like the ESB Yoda than the puppet from TPM. That is also the general opinion. Want proof? Look at some pictures of the different Yoda's. Hey, some even can be found in this thread!

Well, all of this reminds me I have to post something in the Police Academy Messageboard. For years I've been visiting that place. Because I like Police Academy? No way! I HATE it! And those fans will have to know how ridiculously bad the Police Academy films are! Especially parts 7 and 8. Man those are awful films. Why spend time discussing the things you love when you can ventilate your dislikement and "anger" about something for YEARS!

That's so cool.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

That would be convenient, wouldn't it? If the only traditional effect from the prequels would be better than the CGI that dominates it?

The fact is that I never had any problems with the TPM puppet, it looks a lot more dimensional and present in the scene then the AOTC CGI version and much (but not all) of the ROTS version.

The truth is simple: the CGI Yoda looks a 1000 times more like the ESB Yoda than the puppet from TPM. That is also the general opinion. Want proof? Look at some pictures of the different Yoda's. Hey, some even can be found in this thread!

First you state a general opinion, then you say you are presenting proof.

An opinion has othing to do with empirical evidence, it's all in the eye of the beholder.

Well, all of this reminds me I have to post something in the Police Academy Messageboard. For years I've been visiting that place. Because I like Police Academy? No way! I HATE it! And those fans will have to know how ridiculously bad the Police Academy films are! Especially parts 7 and 8. Man those are awful films. Why spend time discussing the things you love when you can ventilate your dislikement and "anger" about something for YEARS!  

That's so cool.

People who like the Police Academy saga should be gassed!

[Sandor 797]

The fact is that I never had any problems with the TPM puppet, it looks a lot more dimensional and present in the scene then the AOTC CGI version and much (but not all) of the ROTS version.

What is in question anyway? CGI vs. puppetry or THE LOOK of Yoda in TPM vs. THE LOOK of Yoda in AOTC/ROTS? I was thinking the latter since I quoted the following:

The puppet looked more like TESB Yoda then the CGI Yoda ever did.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

As I said before I never thought the TPM Yoda should look like TESB Yoda since the story takes place decades before TESB.

TPM Yoda looks like a less swamp infected, slightly younger version, which definatly makes sense to me.

It's hard to believe Prequel fanboys continue to make excuses for the horrible character of Jar Jar, the generally poor acting, the deadening pace of most of the film and the muddles screenplay, but jump all on the supposedly horrible puppet, who only has a few minutes of screentime.

Trust me, Yoda is the least of that film's problems....

[Sandor 797]

People who like the Police Academy saga should be gassed!

I keep telling those guys that, but they won't listen to me!

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

There is no Police Academy 8. Not yet anyway... :?

[fommes 153]

I'm looking forward to an Abrams version of Police Academy 8 with a brand-new rousing Giacchino score breathing life into a whole new generation of Police Academy!

[Red 75]

TPM Yoda looks like a less swamp infected, slightly younger version, which definatly makes sense to me.

That is a great point. I never thought about the whole swamp thing before.

[Luke Skywalker 1,794]

TPM Yoda looks like a less swamp infected, slightly younger version, which definatly makes sense to me.

Slightly younger?

For a species that can reach 900 years, 30-40 years more or less shouldnt make a difference.

[Demodex 557]

The puppet in Episode 1 sucked. The CGI Yoda in Episodes 2 and 3 was far superior.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

]

Slightly younger?

For a species that can reach 900 years, 30-40 years more or less shouldnt make a difference.

Says who?

Remember Yoda was nearing the end of his life in TESB, as the next film clearly demonstrates.

My mothers cat rather suddenly looked very old in the last few months before he died.

Really Manuel, you claim is ridiculous.

[GoodMusician 56]

You also have to realize, he's a pampered little puppet in the Prequels.

In the OT, he's been rotting away on a swamp for over 20 years... probably not eating well, training a lot... and of course, growing older, more cenile, and slowly dying.

The whole reason why people live as long as they do these days is because of our technology and sterile environments... Dagoba had neither...

So the fact that he looked younger in Episode I only makes sense to me. In the OT he looks fragile... his eyes look almost sunken or something... he looks old. So I really don't see a problem heh.

But that's me.

[Ollie 1,059]

30 years you spend in a swamp, look as good as TPM puppet you won't.

[King Mark 3,631]

whatever,Yoda in TPM looks like Yoda's brother or Yoda's cousin,but he'snot Yoda.

K.M.

[ymenard 54]

The CGI replacement for TPM does look like Yoda, for sure. I'll be happy to see that change, but heck no I won't buy the DVD.

[Henry B 50]

I don't get it.

Even when I was a raging Star Wars fanboy, I didn't think the digital Yoda looked like the ESB one, or for that matter, like a realistic creature. What's the deal with it/him being so popular? The movements are ridiculously fluid; not like a real creature (or puppet) would move at all. It's odd, but the TPM Yoda still looks truer to the original to me. Movement is an important part of it, not just selective screen captures.

[chinaismine 64]

I don't think any of the prequel Yodas look all that great.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

All incarnations of Yoda seem to have their quirks. Really, there are so many inconsistencies in the Star Wars saga (for example, who the hell would elect a 14-year-old queen? How is the Empire able to flatten the well-equipped Rebel Alliance, but is pinned down by teddy bears? There are so many bizarre aliens in the PT, but they all disappear in the OT), Yoda's various appearances seem almost forgivable.

[Luke Skywalker 1,794]

All incarnations of Yoda seem to have their quirks.  Really, there are so many inconsistencies in the Star Wars saga (for example, who the hell would elect a 14-year-old queen?

We had our 12 year old queen here. (as you can see on Spielberg's Amistad)

She had her regents, and amidala has her share of counselors...

In the OT, he's been rotting away on a swamp for over 20 years... probably not eating well...more cenile.

Mmmm roots, i cook them, good food, good food mmm?? (or similar)

And in the ROTS script (and well in ESB movie too) you can see the cenile Yoda is a facade to avoid recognition...

The movements are ridiculously fluid; not like a real creature (or puppet) would move at all

Really? Yoda in the Tantive IV walking just after obi wan arrives looks like a puppet walking to me.

Yoda in EPII in the scene 'I will not let this republic be split in two' his face, ear movements and since he is seated, look like the puppet too.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

She had her regents, and amidala has his share of counselors...

His?

[Luke Skywalker 1,794]

oops. that is a travesty!

[Sandor 797]

The digital Yoda, especially in ROTS, isn't half as bad as some people on this board would like to believe...

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

The RotS Yoda was pretty good. But it's just so very very weird to see a character we've all known as a loveable gentle muppet for years act like Sonic the Hedgehog on steroids.

[Ollie 1,059]

One thing that makes TESB/ROTJ Yoda more believable is that Frank Oz is actually performing him, not some computer.

All incarnations of Yoda seem to have their quirks. Really, there are so many inconsistencies in the Star Wars saga (for example, who the hell would elect a 14-year-old queen? How is the Empire able to flatten the well-equipped Rebel Alliance, but is pinned down by teddy bears? There are so many bizarre aliens in the PT, but they all disappear in the OT), Yoda's various appearances seem almost forgivable.

You'll notice most of that is not present in Star Wars or TESB and basically started once Gary Kurtz left.

ROTJ was the warning signs of things to come.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

All incarnations of Yoda seem to have their quirks. Really, there are so many inconsistencies in the Star Wars saga (for example, who the hell would elect a 14-year-old queen? How is the Empire able to flatten the well-equipped Rebel Alliance, but is pinned down by teddy bears? There are so many bizarre aliens in the PT, but they all disappear in the OT), Yoda's various appearances seem almost forgivable.

You'll notice most of that is not present in Star Wars or TESB and basically started once Gary Kurtz left.

ROTJ was the warning signs of things to come.

Indeed.

[ymenard 54]

the ROTS Yoda is really, I mean _really_ close to the original puppet Yoda because they on purpose tried to mimick the way Frank Oz puppetered him. Well in non-action scenes. Of course Yoda never had action scenes in the original trilogy, so nobody imho can say "OMG he's so fake he's so fast and fluid".

[Henry B 50]

Yoda's action scenes still make me laugh.

No, he's too fluid when he's standing still. Always bobbing about, swaying. For example, watch the scenes where he talks to Mace Windu or Obi-Wan. Does it seem like they don't match up?

[GoodMusician 56]

Don't they have puppets that they use to imput digital information? THey used them in Jurassic Park. THe stopmotion animators used them to animate the T-rex in many scenes...

You'd think they would have made a CG puppet input device for frank oz to use to puppet Yoda... but it would imput the CG information...

[Trent B 337]

Well regardless of the arguments here, I for one am buying the OUT DVD set to finally retire my VCR and my VHS sets (my OUT and 97' Special Edition sets). I will also be buying the Saga DVD set next year. Why? Because it's Star Wars and I love buying everything movie and score wise for the Star Wars Saga.

That reminds me...gotta buy new copies of Episodes I-III sometime... TPM is pretty much scratched to hell and AOTC is almost like that, ROTS has a few scratches on that disc to...

[GoodMusician 56]

Do you eat them or something!? :-p

No, I had to do the same with my JP disk. It turned out to be cheaper to buy it as a set than JP alone so I baught thebox set lol.

I for one am AT LEAST buying Empire Strikes Back in the OT version because for some reason, that particular disk of the SE won't play in some of my DVD players or my computer at all. ALthough I'm tempted to get ROTJ for a better quality Lapti Nek rip :-p

There's no word yet on if the O-OT will be in this new box set right? So far as we know it's only going to be available those two moths and thats it...never again.

(That's what the tapes said before they released the SE's 'Own the Original Trilogy... One Last Time...' ) lol

[Trent B 337]

I really doubt the OUT movies will be re-released again with next years box set. These are only available for a limited time from September 12th to December 31st.

Edit: To answer your question, yes I eat them. I eat them for breakfast and they're pretty damn good to!!

Just kidding.

[GoodMusician 56]

I eat them for breakfast and they're pretty damn good to!!

Hmm... I guess that's the only case where the prequels are good

(OOO!! dis! Burn!) :

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Don't they have puppets that they use to imput digital information? THey used them in Jurassic Park. THe stopmotion animators used them to animate the T-rex in many scenes...

That's what they used about 14 years ago to make the transition from go-motion to digital animation. Work has changed since then.

And why spent all the effort on making a digital input device of Yoda for Frank Oz to operate, when you can just get Frank Oz to operate a puppet of Yoda? Sure, there's some set construction isseus ininvolved, but still...

Notice though that in The Beginning, there's a clip of Frank Oz watching some of the Jar Jar or Watto footage during pickups (or during the shooting of the Obi-Wan/Yoda scene at the end anyway), where he comments something like "my God, George, you don't need me anymore..."

[GoodMusician 56]

And he did end up recording his lines from like halfway across the planet or something... like in LA while George was in Enland/Australia...

I dunno... I just think that they should have done that had they wanted a performance to match that of the Originals...

And just because it's old doesn't mean much. The best CG cretures/work done to date have to be the dinosaurs in Jurassic Park... I mean there are so many scenes in that where there is CG work and you would never have guessed.

The viewing of the brachios in the distance in the lake is a 35 mm still picture, cleaned up,and CG animated with the actors placed on by green screen... amazing...

The shots of the inside of the helicoptor are blue screen...they don't even look it...

And you can't deny that the dinosaurs looked...amazing...

[King Mark 3,631]

well,except that first brachiosaurus that stands on it's hind legs.

K.M.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

And just because it's old doesn't mean much. The best CG cretures/work done to date have to be the dinosaurs in Jurassic Park... I mean there are so many scenes in that where there is CG work and you would never have guessed.

That wasn't my point. My point was that the DIDs they used on JP were merely there for a transition from go-motion to digital animating. I believe they even used some of the structures from the early puppets they were going to use for the effects sequences as structure for the DIDs. An input device for Yoda would have to be built from scratch, and would be far more complex, since it has to be a talking character, rather than an animal like the dinosaurs in Jurassic Park were.

These days it's all done with the mouse (or penpads).

[GoodMusician 56]

hence why he moves unrealistically...

[ST-321 4]

Slightly younger?

For a species that can reach 900 years, 30-40 years more or less shouldnt make a difference.

Its not the years, its the mileage.

[Luke Skywalker 1,794]

In this case, its not the years, its the parsecs

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

The shots of the inside of the helicoptor are blue screen.

They were?

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

well,except that first brachiosaurus that stands on it's hind legs.

K.M.

Still looks quite ok to me.

[Ollie 1,059]

Yet after so many years in between the Brachiosaurus in JP III really didn't look any better.

[Sandor 797]

You know, some effects will never really date. The Asteroid Field sequence from ESB still is amazing and the AOTC asteroid scene didn't really blow ESB "out of the water". Not at all. And we're talking 1980 here!

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

You know, some effects will never really date. The Asteroid Field sequence from ESB still is amazing and the AOTC asteroid scene didn't really blow ESB "out of the water". Not at all. And we're talking 1980 here!

Both looked great. AOTC was just spoiled by little Boba yelling "FIRE!"

[Ollie 1,059]

Yeah but it was nowhere near exciting as TESB Asteroid sequence.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

You know, some effects will never really date. The Asteroid Field sequence from ESB still is amazing and the AOTC asteroid scene didn't really blow ESB "out of the water". Not at all. And we're talking 1980 here!

Be carefull Roald, you actually make sense.

[Romão 2,274]

What made that sequence so exciting was the music, the camera work and the characters reactions, more than the quality of the special effects.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Indeed!

[tpigeon 3]

I think we need to be careful when discussing this for the reasons that Merkel points out. Effects, like music in many ways, can't make a bad film good. But they can make a good film better. The Asteroid scene in The Empire Strikes Back is infinitely better than the one in Attack of the Clones. A good film uses its effects wisely. Examples from The Empire Strikes Back and Jurassic Park serve as pinnacles of knowing how to utilize the tools available to make a strong scene, whereas with many films today, people are structuring scenes around good effects, which is all wrong. Digital technology may continue to improve, but it will never replace good filmmaking, something which seems to be lost on so many directors who are so infatuated with digital technology.

Ted

[Red 75]

I couldn't agree more, Ted.