The Hobbit Film Trilogy Thread

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Wycket 36]

I'm not a fan of Lord of the Rings. I haven't read any of the books and personally don't like the three films. I personally think they're far too long and the story doesn't compel me enough to invest over nine hours of my life to ever watch them again. That being said, I have no problems acknowledging that they are extremely well crafted films and obviously had a lot of care and attention put into them all headed by a director who never achieved greater before or probably since.

With all that being said, I don't see why he would do the 48fps with these films. If they're supposed to be viewed in unison with the trilogy, wouldn't you want them to visually be similar to the others? While they might be using the same locations and similar set designs, the fps will clearly stand out and detract from the ability to connect the films together. This is the same problem Lucas got into when he decided that the Star Wars films apparently didn't need to build sets any more. Phantom Menace at least visually fits into the series, yet the other two just feel completely out of place and have very few visual connections to the original films. For being such a fan of Star Wars, it seems that Jackson failed to heed the mistakes that Lucas made.

Again, I have no investment in these films so I could care less, but its unfortunate that fans of these films will now have to deal with the same problems that Star Wars fans have to. Personally I'm not too surprised, as other than LOTR, I haven't found any Jackson film particularly amazing or worthy of high praise. Perhaps just like Lucas, Jackson just had a brief period of supreme creativity and achievement.

[gkgyver 1,645]

Since the films are also released in 24 fps, and Jackson didn't go the Lucas way, in any sense, of filming in a complete digital environment, I don't see a problem with visual continuity.

The wonderful places in New Zealand play a major major part, and sets and miniatures are being built just like with LOTR.

There isn't even the faintest reason to worry about visual continuity.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Quintus 5,399]

I'm not a fan of Lord of the Rings. I haven't read any of the books and personally don't like the three films. I personally think they're far too long and the story doesn't compel me enough to invest over nine hours of my life to ever watch them again. That being said, I have no problems acknowledging that they are extremely well crafted films and obviously had a lot of care and attention put into them all headed by a director who never achieved greater before or probably since.

With all that being said, I don't see why he would do the 48fps with these films. If they're supposed to be viewed in unison with the trilogy, wouldn't you want them to visually be similar to the others? While they might be using the same locations and similar set designs, the fps will clearly stand out and detract from the ability to connect the films together. This is the same problem Lucas got into when he decided that the Star Wars films apparently didn't need to build sets any more. Phantom Menace at least visually fits into the series, yet the other two just feel completely out of place and have very few visual connections to the original films. For being such a fan of Star Wars, it seems that Jackson failed to heed the mistakes that Lucas made.

Again, I have no investment in these films so I could care less, but its unfortunate that fans of these films will now have to deal with the same problems that Star Wars fans have to. Personally I'm not too surprised, as other than LOTR, I haven't found any Jackson film particularly amazing or worthy of high praise. Perhaps just like Lucas, Jackson just had a brief period of supreme creativity and achievement.

Some valid points here. Some.

[KK 3,307]

I'm sure under normal circumstances the journos would absolutely take an unfinished state into consideration. No, this seems alarming. Maybe the final colour grading and various other tinkerings will drastically improve the finished aesthetic, but I still can't help but wonder why Jackson would allow such an apparently substandard work-in-progress to be seen... and dissected by the rabid internets. It makes no sense.

Agreed. Even if this was the right way to show off the new film-technique, I am extremely surprised that a high-profile perfectionist like Jackson and his brilliant team would allow anything sub-standard to be shown. But one thing I'm pretty sure about is that after all this negative criticism, Jackson isn't going to let this slide. I'm sure he'll do whatever needs to be done to fix the 48 fps.

And by the way. The trailer looks great, yes, but its in 24 fps right?

[Incanus 5,713]

But can you let the bunnies/jackrabbits/floppy eared bushy tailed creatures slide? Even on skates or skiis?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Incanus 5,713]

Maybe they created these CGI rabbits just for this particular screening, and they'll be replaced by giants dragons in the final film, to create the biggest "WOW" surprise EVAH, MAN!

No wonder the other scenes looked so rough and unfinished. All the time and effort went to the fake CGI bunnies to mask the real beasties pulling the sled/carriage. It makes sense my friend. It all makes sense.

[Brónach 1,301]

I find it funny what they mention about fake stuff on set looking more fake and CGI stuff looking more real.

[KK 3,307]

That image is frankly quite disturbing...maybe BloodBoal's idea is valid, maybe they'll be replaced by epic Dragons!!

But in all seriousness, why can't Radagast ride a horse again?!

Horse = animal

Radagast loves animals

Therefore: Radagast loves horses!!!

If that was not apparent to Jackson...then I don't what to say.

The main point is, how do we know they're really bunnies. Because some guy who was displeased with the film said so? I don't buy it. I don't buy the fact that with such a brilliant crew with some of the world's best Tolkien fanatics (namely Phillipa Boyens) would let something as atrocious as bunnies bear the honour of carrying Radagast...seriously thats just messed up. I refuse to believe any crew (with the exception of one that is led by Lucas) is that stupid.

No other review mentioned bunnies, so I'm just going to go with the theory that that guy was kind of pissed with the preview that he dismissed a bunch of animals as anything cute and fluffy...

[Brónach 1,301]

But in all seriousness, why can't Radagast ride a horse again?!

Horse = animal

Radagast loves animals

Therefore: Radagast loves horses!!!

If that was not apparent to Jackson...then I don't what to say.

Even if they wanted him to use a slide or a chariot, they could take inspiration of the Celts. With horses.

[gkgyver 1,645]

Yep. And the source material is awesome, so the films would be at the very least tolerable, moreso than the prequels.

And the casting is still top notch, while the same can't be said about the prequels.

I beg to differ.

The Star Wars prequels had great potential as far as the story is concerned, and the casting with Ewan McGregor, Natalie Portman, Samuel L. Jackson, Liam Neeson and others are top-notch as well.

The iceberg that sank the Titanic is still Lucas' incompetence.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[gkgyver 1,645]

Of course you're right.

But the reason they don't show their skills in these "films" is in my view Lucas' direction and abysmal screenplay.

[KK 3,307]

Well, this thread is frankly pretty depressing with all this negative Hobbit news...after a bit digging myself, the reactions to the 48 fps haven't been all that negative!

Look at these:

http://hollywood-elsewhere.com/2012/04/48_frames_chang.php

The state of cinema as most of us know it changed radically today when 10 minutes of footage from Peter Jackson's 48 frames-per-second 3D The Hobbit were shown on the huge Collisseum screen inside Caeser's Palace today. 48 fps 3D is such a startling and game-changing thing that it's like the introduction of sound in 1927, CinemaScope in 1953, and high-end 3D with Avatar. I was knocked back in my seat...open-mouthed. This is the most startlingly "real" form of cinema I've ever seen, so much so that it isn't "cinema." And there's the rub.

That's coming from Jeff Wells, a man who hated the Lord of the Rings trilogy. If he really fell in love with The Hobbit, then it must be something.

Here's another one:

http://movies.about.com/b/2012/04/24/hobbit-footage-screened.htm

Once audiences get to see The Hobbit screened at the 48 frames per second rate when it's released in theaters on December 14, 2012, I can guarantee moviegoers are going to demand all films be presented at 48 fps.

- RE: the 48 frames. I think it will take a bit of adjusting our expectations, but I've never a movie that jumps off the screen and immerses you in the film the way this 10 minute piece did.

- RE: the performances. On par with Lord of the Rings, with Martin Freeman appearing to be the perfect Bilbo.

From AICN:

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/55212

I have major reservations, but at the same time am beyond awed at many elements of what hit my visual cortex. Recalling the sweeping landscape shots they opened with now, I almost feel tears welling, and I can’t explain why. It was overwhelming in the most literal sense. It directly assaults your synapses with twice as much information through your retinas as you have become conditioned to expect from traditional cinema. I did not see the digital seams around creatures like Gollum and the trolls, a major benefit over 24fps. The creatures had a sense of mass in the environment, which was disconcerting in a good way.

I started getting acclimated, and then it cut away again, and again, and again. The scene that really allowed me to relax and get used to it was the scene with Bilbo and Gollum in the cave, the longest segment they showed us. If there had been more contiguous sequences like that, cut together like a full scene (albeit with unfinished color grading and effects), I think the response might have been very different in that room today. The enemy of a radically new presentation like 48fps is the sizzle reel format of cutting. People needed to be given the benefit of their patience not being tried by rapid cutting back and forth from non-contiguous scenes.

That last point is probably what what was the root of these negative reactions. Perhaps there were too many cuts for anyone to really adjust to the 48fps.

This one was the most assuring in my eyes:

http://blogs.indiewire.com/theplaylist/peter-jacksons-48fps-presentation-of-the-hobbit-at-cinemacon-gets-a-mixed-response-20120424

It's too early to determine the success or failure of this new "format" (for lack of a better term), but calling it a "mistake" (as some people are) based on 10 minutes of footage is premature at best. In fact, much of the reaction today is reminiscent of the same concerns that James Cameron's "Avatar" was met with in the months leading up to its release, that 3D wouldn't be the game changer that Fox was hoping for, and audiences wouldn't be impressed enough to make it a hit. And then it went on to make over 2 billion dollars. But at the current moment, while everyone at CinemaCon is talking about 48fps, to the average regular moviegoer out in the real world? They have no idea what that means.

This is what I'm getting from all these articles. I used to think that 48 fps would just be more hi-def and more realistic, but it seems like it makes it seem you feel like you're literally there. This is probably what is disturbing so many folks used to the cinematic illusion of 24 fps. And I have to say, those articles are quite encouraging because it means the 48 fps is definitely not as bad as Badass Digest made it out to be. It looks like he was really exaggerating as most just needed more time to get used to 48fps. And considering how Devin was exaggerating about the 48 fps, whats to say he wasn't exaggerating about all that bunny nonsense.

It seems to me that people will need some time to get used to 48 fps, and once that happens, people will eventually love it. And some of the complaints about the sets will probably be addressed by Jackson and his crew. I think I'm pretty ok with the 48 fps issue now.

Of course, none of these articles really address the content...hopefully Jackson won't fail there...(its quite possible that all the tomb and bunny nonsense was just exaggerated bs).

- KK, The Merciful One

[Brónach 1,301]

I want to see what absurdly high framerates look like. Maybe they're going high, stepping outside the comfort zone of the audience, but not high enough to impress by the sheer difference.

[gkgyver 1,645]

Seven months, only seven months to go!

And we'll get score previews even earlier .... I'm getting nervous in my comfy chair.

[Quintus 5,399]

I know what higher fps look like. It's weird at first, but you adjust. Movements are like silk, blurring is eradicated, a long dolly shot sails from left to right like a steadicam mounted on a ghost. It's quite amazing, once you adjust. Which is why I'm baffled as to why Jackson would give a demonstration with unfinished lighting passes and unsatisfactory colour grading. Let's just say I'm not surprised it looked like seventies tv drama. I only hope the 48fps doesn't have some sort of detrimental effect on the digital post production process - causing uncanny byproducts which are difficult to filter out. But really, I remain hopeful the finished article will dazzle.

[gkgyver 1,645]

If it really helps to make it appear like I'm standing in the set, with 3D, then bring it on!

As long as I have the choice to watch it in the "old" way, I don't get the complaints.

And I'm pretty sure, bunnys and jackrabbits aside, that The Hobbit will be an awesome film on its own, and is just as good without the digital goodies.

[Muad'Dib 1,800]

This bad press might be good, in a way. It lowers your expectations and allows you to actually enjoy the actual product.

Someone should have done this type of press for the prequels!

[Elder Joseph Harbinger 0]

Please reconsider all this fantasy movies. Sometimes, they seem to be fun, but they are not what they seem.

Explore this, for a start:

[Augie 1]

Thank you, preacher.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Elder Joseph Harbinger 0]

Excuse me, young man?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Elder Joseph Harbinger 0]

Accepted.

[chuck 154]

OMG, we have been invaded.

[Jay 37,263]

The troll has been banned

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Faleel 5,326]

it was Timmy (PJ's FOTR)

[Incanus 5,713]

Nuh-uh. It was Joseph, the conservative mountain troll cousin of the three trolls.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[chuck 154]

And the whole Middle-Earth heave a collective sigh of relief.

[MrJosh 892]

LOL, that elder made some awesome contributions to the forums this morning. What a guy!

[chuck 154]

And they say "You should respect your elders".

[Incanus 5,713]

I liked the surname, Harbinger. It sounds so fateful. I hope it is not an omen so that the MB doesn't have fully armored battle trolls at our gates tomorrow.

[chuck 154]

No, it's just a birthday surprise.

[Faleel 5,326]

I just hope he does not use his "lawyer/attorney" status against us

[Brónach 1,301]

I liked the surname, Harbinger. It sounds so fateful. I hope it is not an omen so that the MB doesn't have fully armored battle trolls at our gates tomorrow.

It's also a DC character.

[Wojo 2,453]

This. Is. Awesome.

1) Go to Google Maps (http://maps.google.com/)

2) Click "Get Directions"

3) A = The Shire

4) B = Mordor

5) Click "Get Directions"

6) Select the walking icon

[Faleel 5,326]

BUAHAHA!!

[Jay 37,263]

How about these:

1. go to www.google.com

2. type in "askew" and hit enter

1. go to www.google.com

2. type in "do a barrel roll"

[Faleel 5,326]

switch the shire with mordor, and you get a funny (not as much as the other) message

[Wojo 2,453]

switch the shire with mordor, and you get a funny (not as much as the other) message

That's the standard message for walking between two places.

This was always funny too:

[Incanus 5,713]

Of course, none of these articles really address the content...hopefully Jackson won't fail there...(its quite possible that all the tomb and bunny nonsense was just exaggerated bs).

- KK, The Merciful One

TOR report was very clear about the details on content, bunnies, tombs and all:

http://www.theonering.net/torwp/2012/04/27/55378-hobbit-footage-review-massive-spoilers-full-coverage-analysis/#more-55378

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Incanus 5,713]

Tally ho Witch King, tally ho Khamûl! Tally ho seven nameless ghosties garbed in black! Mush! Mush!

[Hedwig 5]

Does anyone know what 'extra bits' could have been added to the film? I've read a lot about the the White Council being in it, but will they just talk, or is it possible we see them in battle? Obviously I know no one's seen the film, but I take it the filmakers have added to the film thing's that Tolkien wrote outsde the hobbit story. So what does Gandalf actually do when he leaves Bilbo?

[Incanus 5,713]

Does anyone know what 'extra bits' could have been added to the film? I've read a lot about the the White Council being in it, but will they just talk, or is it possible we see them in battle? Obviously I know no one's seen the film, but I take it the filmakers have added to the film thing's that Tolkien wrote outsde the hobbit story. So what does Gandalf actually do when he leaves Bilbo?

Yes the two Hobbit films also bridge in part the gap left between Bilbo's story and LotR. The White Council purging Dol Guldur takes place after Gandalf leaves the Dwarves and Bilbo at the edge of Mirkwood so I guess they will somehow show that. If all these misadventures Gandalf has digging up old graves of Nazgûl (Absurdity! Harrumph!) and whatnot take place before or during the journey of the Dwarves, then I guess the culmination of this sleuthing will be the attack of the White Council to Dol Guldur driving Sauron into hiding in the East.