The Hobbit Film Trilogy Thread

[Hedwig 5]

Oh my goodness.... so we could have another incredible battle sequence on our hands? Exciting I'm also intrested to hear from Jackson and the writing team about the whole 'tomb' thing, it's very strange.

[Incanus 5,714]

It is not known what things exactly have the film makers mined from the Appendices of LotR for this film but I think they are going to show the War of Dwarves and Orcs and glimpses of the Battle of Azanulbizar as part of the backstory of Thorin's group. I remember seeing that an actor playing Azog was already cast.

[Wojo 2,453]

Maybe the tombs of the Ringwraiths are where the families of the fallen kings were buried. Their subjects would have made resting places for final journeys of their kings and their families, but they never got to bury them since the kings became immortal under the service of Sauron, and turned into liches over time. I doubt the kings would return to these tombs as they simply became physical extension of Sauron's will over the centuries, but they'd still be spooky places.

Just reaching for straws here at this point.

[KK 3,307]

Of course, none of these articles really address the content...hopefully Jackson won't fail there...(its quite possible that all the tomb and bunny nonsense was just exaggerated bs).

- KK, The Merciful One

TOR report was very clear about the details on content, bunnies, tombs and all:

http://www.theonerin...sis/#more-55378

I'm not reading that Incanus. I wish not to be spoiled. But I'll take your word for it...which would be awful...

Maybe the guys who wrote the descriptions were a bit drunk, and actually, what they wanted to say is that there were tombs of bunnies and that Radagast sled was being pulled by Ringwraiths. That would make more sense.

I'm liking this theory a lot!

Oh my goodness.... so we could have another incredible battle sequence on our hands? Exciting I'm also intrested to hear from Jackson and the writing team about the whole 'tomb' thing, it's very strange.

Maybe....although I always had the impression that Sauron fled to Mordor anticipating the White Council's attack. The White Council was too late.

[Wojo 2,453]

Of course, none of these articles really address the content...hopefully Jackson won't fail there...(its quite possible that all the tomb and bunny nonsense was just exaggerated bs).

- KK, The Merciful One

TOR report was very clear about the details on content, bunnies, tombs and all:

http://www.theonerin...sis/#more-55378

Oh ho ho! Re-read it again and tell me again how we know 100% that it is Radagast who is pulled by the sled of rabbits.

I’m not remembering these clips in the correct order they were shown, but we also see a brief shot of Radagast being pulled along the forest floor in a sled drawn by mighty grey jackrabbits! I kid you not, it was a ramshackle version of an Iditarod dogsled, made of twisted branches and bracken, pulled by six or seven oversized rabbits. I think it was Radagast, but he went by so fast — what other character could it be?

I say we don't know. The collective nerd community is jumping to a conclusion based on somebody's best guess. There is another character who would make a grand appearance using atypical animals.

~*~

But when you look at the advent of 48 fps as a sea-change in the exhibition of movies, you can’t ignore the conclusion that film is dead. Period. We are already beyond the point of no return with other old film and television formats (Silent film, B&W, Beta, VHS, Laserdisc, etc.) that are gone the way of the dodo.

Does this person realize which two "dead" techniques were used in the last film to win Best Picture?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Brónach 1,302]

After long reflection on the matter I think I wouldn't mind the sled, specially if it was the other character's and not Radagast.

[KK 3,307]

Of course, none of these articles really address the content...hopefully Jackson won't fail there...(its quite possible that all the tomb and bunny nonsense was just exaggerated bs).

- KK, The Merciful One

TOR report was very clear about the details on content, bunnies, tombs and all:

http://www.theonerin...sis/#more-55378

Oh ho ho! Re-read it again and tell me again how we know 100% that it is Radagast who is pulled by the sled of rabbits.

I’m not remembering these clips in the correct order they were shown, but we also see a brief shot of Radagast being pulled along the forest floor in a sled drawn by mighty grey jackrabbits! I kid you not, it was a ramshackle version of an Iditarod dogsled, made of twisted branches and bracken, pulled by six or seven oversized rabbits. I think it was Radagast, but he went by so fast — what other character could it be?

I say we don't know. The collective nerd community is jumping to a conclusion based on somebody's best guess. There is another character who would make a grand appearance using atypical animals.

~*~

Be that as it may, the other critic at Badass Digest specifically mentioned Radagast. Two people being drunk and guessing Radagast is quite suspicious of not being coincidental. I was hoping the first guy was just drunk when he watched it, but if its been confirmed on TOR, then...I think I'm gonna be sick...

But when you look at the advent of 48 fps as a sea-change in the exhibition of movies, you can’t ignore the conclusion that film is dead. Period. We are already beyond the point of no return with other old film and television formats (Silent film, B&W, Beta, VHS, Laserdisc, etc.) that are gone the way of the dodo.

Does this person realize which two "dead" techniques were used in the last film to win Best Picture?

Oh ho ho! Re-read it again and tell me again how we know 100% that it is Radagast who is pulled by the sled of rabbits.

I’m not remembering these clips in the correct order they were shown, but we also see a brief shot of Radagast being pulled along the forest floor in a sled drawn by mighty grey jackrabbits! I kid you not, it was a ramshackle version of an Iditarod dogsled, made of twisted branches and bracken, pulled by six or seven oversized rabbits. I think it was Radagast, but he went by so fast — what other character could it be?

I say we don't know. The collective nerd community is jumping to a conclusion based on somebody's best guess. There is another character who would make a grand appearance using atypical animals.

Does that make a difference? In the end, the film still includes a sled being pulled by fucking bunnies!

I wonder what PJ was smoking when he decided to make that wonderful creative decision. Or what worries me more, what the hell was the freakin' crew doing well they watched PJ destroy the film they've been toiling over for years....

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Brónach 1,302]

It's Del Toro's idea, I tell you! The Mexican is evil! He has perverted Jacko! The bunnies were Del Toro's idea! Del Toro, or should I say "Del Conejo"?

Although, in all honestly, it was PJ who turned the wargs into giant weird hyenas (which I don't mind).

[KK 3,307]

I wonder what PJ was smoking when he decided to make that wonderful creative decision. Or what worries me more, what the hell was the freakin' crew doing well they watched PJ destroy the film they've been toiling over for years....

It's Del Toro's idea, I tell you! The Mexican is evil! He has perverted Jacko! The bunnies were Del Toro's idea! Del Toro, or should I say "Del Conejo"?

El Diablo?!

Well, does that mean these oversized bunnies will have eyes coming out of their paws and horns sticking out of their eye sockets? Yo, those would be some pretty vicious creatures. No wonder Radagast uses them as his guardians! Who needs dragons when you've got Del Toro Bunnies of Evil!!!!

It's Del Toro's idea, I tell you! The Mexican is evil! He has perverted Jacko! The bunnies were Del Toro's idea! Del Toro, or should I say "Del Conejo"?

Although, in all honestly, it was PJ who turned the wargs into giant weird hyenas (which I don't mind).

Well hyenas are way better than bunnies. And the wargs looked fine in the end anyways. But BloodBoal has a point. Now that he brings it up, this whole "bunnies" idea has the stench of Del Toro all over it...

I wonder what other additions we'll see on Del Toro's part. I love some of his films (especially Pan's Labyrinth), but I was always worried when he was at the head of the project...it sucks that even after he left, we'll still be seeing his fingerprints all over it.

[Quintus 5,399]

Jacko responds: http://insidemovies.ew.com/2012/04/27/peter-jackson-responds-hobbit/

[Faleel 5,346]

perhaps the "Bunny character" was Beorn....?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Jackson is saying. Stop your whining and wait till you actually see the damn film!

I agree.

Remember people were unsure about Avatar and 3D, and that killed at the box office

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Brónach 1,302]

Remember people were unsure about Avatar and 3D, and that killed at the box office

Yeah, but in the end, the film still sucked.

Word.

[KK 3,307]

But in terms of visual technicalities, it was stunning.

On the 48 fps, I've become confident again that 48 fps will probably be great once was PJ finishes the thing. I think 10 minutes with such randomly changing shots didn't allow critics to really settle and get used to the 48 fps. Once everyone gets to see the whole film, then everyone will be please. So I'm confident again that we'll get a top-notch film!

Whats really pissin' me off are those Nazgul tombs. In any way I imagine it, I can't see it working to my satisfaction...

I'm surprised theres been so little discussion of the music. Will we hear the chorus whispering the Revelation of the Ringwraiths while Gandalf fishes around. Or will the chorus hum the theme quietly? And how about those bunnies?!? For such evil bunnies, Shore better come with a villain theme of the highest order for them!

[gkgyver 1,645]

There was a lot of dark tunnels/tomb footage in ROTK (Paths Of The Dead), which ended up on the cutting room floor, just like the surrounding story of Arwen in the library.

And consider the Arwen fighting at Helms Deep idea, which was cut because of complaints.

So, it's likely that, if Petey catches wind of the complaints about freaking Ringwraith tombs and easter bunnies, he might reconsider those.

So, what I'm trying to say is: piss all over this stuff and do it as loudly as possible!!!!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Joni Wiljami 1,206]

NO!!. Too much noise from nothing.

[KK 3,307]

DISCUSS!

Fair enough.

1) I find it unlikely that Shore will craft a theme for Gandalf the Grey. He might hint at Gandalf the White in Nature here and there. As for the scene you mentioned, my belief is that Shore will probably create a theme for the White Council itself, and then we'll get to hear it in full-blown action splendour (hopefully)!

2) 99.9999% sure he will. The eagles scene in RotK is one of the most powerful and memorable musical moments in the film, I'm sure Jackson would want to pay homage to that shot in some way and would encourage Shore to do so. Besides, the Nature's Reclamation is the most ideal thematic representation at that moment.

3) Very likely. Almost certain of it. He'll probably create another 8 note theme that is very closely related to Shelob's material, but probably not as dense and dark. There'll be a slightly different effect needed for that scene.

4) He should and he will use the Mordor/Sauron material. We probably won't hear the motifs largely associated with Mordor (like the descending thirds) but we'll hear plenty of the Evil of the Ring in it. It'll be perhaps a slightly altered variation but still something the audience will recall and familiarize with. After all, with all these White Council scenes,

the identity of the Necromancer will probably be quite apparent to the audience

. In the end its the same person but slightly different form. So knowing Shore, it'll probably be the same theme in slightly different form.

5) There probably will be an end credits song for this film. But as for who should be the singer, I think I'll need a moment to think that one through...

6) We'll see lots of themes returning for sure. Here are the ones that I think will come back of the top of my head:

- The Shire (and all its associated themes)

- The History of the Ring

- The Seduction of the Ring

- The Evil of the Ring

- The Ringwraith's Theme

- The Rivendell Theme

- The Lothlorien Theme

- The Isengard Theme (but in a an altered variation that might be in perhaps major-key, basically something that tells us its Saruman but deceptively hides his true intentions)

- Nature's Reclamation

- Journey There

- Dangerous Passes

- The Pity of Gollum

- The Fellowship Theme (subtle hints, probably at the appearance of Legolas)

Here are some that I'm not so sure about, but its possible):

- The Gondor Theme:

It really depends on how the film is presented. In The Unfinished Tales, Gandalf reveals his true intentions of Bilbo's quest in Minas Tirith while Frodo was there (after the destruction of the ring obviously). But I seriously doubt the film will be doing that. If not, Shore might hint at the theme during any random appearances of their kind in the film.

- Strider's Theme:

There was some mention in a review of the 48 fps I saw somewhere (maybe at TOR, idk) that mentioned the Dunedain capturing the Nazgul or some utter nonsense like that. Maybe we'll hear hints of this theme

- Dwarrowdelf Theme:

Maybe there are hints of this theme at some mention of Moria or whatever.

Again, those last three are REALLY iff-y!

So, it's likely that, if Petey catches wind of the complaints about freaking Ringwraith tombs and easter bunnies, he might reconsider those.

That's very true. Let's go really public with this guys!!! Then Jackson will come to his senses!!!

Wait! These are easter bunnies now? That changes everything!

Did you not see my picture of the bunny dragging Radagast? Pay attention BloodBoal!!

[Faleel 5,346]

- The Isengard Theme (but in a positive, perhaps major-key version)

/

I wanna hear how that would sound!

quick! to the key converter lab!

[Marian Schedenig 8,192]

I'm surprised theres been so little discussion of the music.

Actually, I've only read one report about the preview screening, and I don't remember seeing music mentioned. What score *was* used in the preview? Was it original Shore? Was it temp-tracked? Was it without score? The wrong music, or no music at all, could also have a huge impact on how people think 48fps looks bad/artificial/"too realistic".

Giving the bunny sleigh to Beorn instead of Radagast makes sense. It's still stupid, but much easier to live with, as Beorn and his animals are really rather stupid to begin with (I still don't understand how Tolkien, with all his hate for Disney, could write something like that). One thing that worries me: From a purely narrative point of view, it might make a lot of sense to merger the character of Radagast and Beorn. Think about it: Strange eremite characters with a... fondness for beasts, living near the woods, reluctantly helping out the party. As far as their function in The Hobbit's main narrative is concerned, they're pretty much one and the same! It would of course make absolutely no sense at all in the larger view of things, and with all the White Council business included, that's exactly what the film is trying to present, so there'd be no excuse for it even within the constrains of this one film. But I can't help wondering if perhaps taht was an idea somewhere.

[Incanus 5,714]

I'm surprised theres been so little discussion of the music.

Actually, I've only read one report about the preview screening, and I don't remember seeing music mentioned. What score *was* used in the preview? Was it original Shore? Was it temp-tracked? Was it without score? The wrong music, or no music at all, could also have a huge impact on how people think 48fps looks bad/artificial/"too realistic".

Giving the bunny sleigh to Beorn instead of Radagast makes sense. It's still stupid, but much easier to live with, as Beorn and his animals are really rather stupid to begin with (I still don't understand how Tolkien, with all his hate for Disney, could write something like that). One thing that worries me: From a purely narrative point of view, it might make a lot of sense to merger the character of Radagast and Beorn. Think about it: Strange eremite characters with a... fondness for beasts, living near the woods, reluctantly helping out the party. As far as their function in The Hobbit's main narrative is concerned, they're pretty much one and the same! It would of course make absolutely no sense at all in the larger view of things, and with all the White Council business included, that's exactly what the film is trying to present, so there'd be no excuse for it even within the constrains of this one film. But I can't help wondering if perhaps taht was an idea somewhere.

TOR report says this about the music:

I was indeed taken aback by the presentation. What all did I see? I’ll break it down for you, keeping in mind this material was “unfinished” meaning incomplete green screen shots, no color-correcting, borrowed music cues from the Trilogy, etc.

And indeed we should, even though I have been pretty vocally criticizing the oddness of some decisions and ideas presented in the reports of the 10 minute preview, just wait and see what they have come up with. Even though LotR contains actually pretty many things that I can't quite reconcile as honoring Tolkien in the best way possible I still think the movies are pretty darn succesful adaptations of the novel. Perhaps when you see the whole Hobbit film(s) you might be willing to forgive a few stray design concepts that got out of hand.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Indeed is the ROTK preview only showed Legolas astride the Oliphaunt, Gandalf beating Denethor, Frodo asking Sam to leave etc...

[Quintus 5,399]

Argh bloody nora, this whiny speculation is going to be all we get in here now till the bleedin' thing comes out. Another thread ruined. Damn you Peter Jackson *shakes fist*

[Neimoidian 14]

Does 48 fps mean the score will play at double speed?

[KK 3,307]

I'm surprised theres been so little discussion of the music.

Actually, I've only read one report about the preview screening, and I don't remember seeing music mentioned. What score *was* used in the preview? Was it original Shore? Was it temp-tracked? Was it without score? The wrong music, or no music at all, could also have a huge impact on how people think 48fps looks bad/artificial/"too realistic".

They basically used Shore's material from the original LOTR films. I don't think Shore has recorded anything for the film yet (besides the trailer music). He's still in his conceptual stage; writing themes and organizing musical ideas.

Giving the bunny sleigh to Beorn instead of Radagast makes sense. It's still stupid, but much easier to live with, as Beorn and his animals are really rather stupid to begin with (I still don't understand how Tolkien, with all his hate for Disney, could write something like that). One thing that worries me: From a purely narrative point of view, it might make a lot of sense to merger the character of Radagast and Beorn. Think about it: Strange eremite characters with a... fondness for beasts, living near the woods, reluctantly helping out the party. As far as their function in The Hobbit's main narrative is concerned, they're pretty much one and the same! It would of course make absolutely no sense at all in the larger view of things, and with all the White Council business included, that's exactly what the film is trying to present, so there'd be no excuse for it even within the constrains of this one film. But I can't help wondering if perhaps taht was an idea somewhere.

I seriously doubt it. Since the film will focus largely on the bigger picture of things (including all the White Council, setting up for LOTR material) the characters for Radagast and Beorn would need their own separate identities. PJ wouldn't make such a great mistake.

But you brought a good point. The whole bunnies sled thing might be Beorn, not Radagast. If so, it would make so much more sense, and they might pull it off. After all, no one is actually SURE they saw Radagast....it could really just be Beorn we're talking about here...

And indeed we should, even though I have been pretty vocally criticizing the oddness of some decisions and ideas presented in the reports of the 10 minute preview, just wait and see what they have come up with. Even though LotR contains actually pretty many things that I can't quite reconcile as honoring Tolkien in the best way possible I still think the movies are pretty darn succesful adaptations of the novel. Perhaps when you see the whole Hobbit film(s) you might be willing to forgive a few stray design concepts that got out of hand.

Yes, there were some moments that didn't take the best route to pay homage to Tolkien, but honestly Jackson did the best adaption anyone could have come up with for Tolkien's massive works. LOTR after all is supposed to be unfilmable. And to be honest, I support a lot of the creative decisions that Jackson made because ultimately it worked towards the film's cinematic advantage. Portraying everything in LOTR exactly as written wouldn't quite work as a film. One of Jackson's greatest achievements with this trilogy is making the source material far more accessible to the mainstream while remaining very loyal to Tolkien and the roots of his themes. All in all, the films portray the same powerful themes that Tolkien's trilogy resonates with, and in the end, thats what mattered.

I must say though, I might have a bit of bias. These are my favourite films of all time we're talking about (I know some of you might be shaking your heads to this, but the LOTR films has always been my favourites, so too bad ).

Does 48 fps mean the score will play at double speed?

48fps adds a greater sense of realism to the music too! Didn't you know?! It'll feel like you're right there, at Abbey Road, listening to the LPO playing the music. You'll feel like you're right there at the recording sessions.

But it's a very controversial matter. Unfortunately, some people believe that because 48 fps makes the music sound so real, it actually sounds cheap! And apparently the music will sound like theres been no mixing at all...The big criticism is that 48 fps takes away the illusion of musical storytelling, instead of convincing you that you're listening to a film score, it souds like you're listening to a orchestra play the music for the first time live.

Its a very hot debate and its all everyone's been talking about ever since Shore's music got mixed reactions at the 10 min preview....This might just end Shore's career....

[Marian Schedenig 8,192]

Indeed is the ROTK preview only showed Legolas astride the Oliphaunt, Gandalf beating Denethor, Frodo asking Sam to leave etc...

...we still would have been entirely unprepared for the skull avalanche.

Does 48 fps mean the score will play at double speed?

Actually it means it will play at 1000x speed, compared to the image.

I seriously doubt it. Since the film will focus largely on the bigger picture of things (including all the White Council, setting up for LOTR material) the characters for Radagast and Beorn would need their own separate identities. PJ wouldn't make such a great mistake.

But you brought a good point. The whole bunnies sled thing might be Beorn, not Radagast. If so, it would make so much more sense, and they might pull it off. After all, no one is actually SURE they saw Radagast....it could really just be Beorn we're talking about here...

The idea that it might be Beorn was brought up above. I merely speculated that they could have merged the two characters. And I still think that it would make sense, *from a purely story oriented view*: Beorn lives at the edge of Mirkwood, is friendly with beasts and animals, helps the dwarf party and sends them off on their way at exactly the moment when Gandalf leaves them to go about his White Council business. Thinking about it, I think it would have made perfect sense for Tolkien to completely scrap the Beorn character in his rewrite and use Radagast in his stead. Just modify the final battle a bit to do without Beorn and the story would be fine. Of course, there'd still be the problem of Beorn being mention in LOTR...

But of course, as it is, they're two entirely different characters, and merging them in this film could only, as far as I can imagine, be a really bad idea.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

guys what is this nonsense talk about bunnies?!

Jackrabbits are HARES (genus Lepus)

BIG difference . they are bigger, slender and longer limbed and erared. it makes sense them pulling a sle.... hmmm.... what??????????

I wonder if the writer knew the difference..... after all it would make sense being rabbits: giant wetas on king kong, new zealand falcon in tintin.. could this be a cameo of the introduced pest in NZ?

[Incanus 5,714]

guys what is this nonsense talk about bunnies?!

Jackrabbits are HARES (genus Lepus)

BIG difference . they are bigger, slender and longer limbed and erared. it makes sense them pulling a sle.... hmmm.... what??????????

I wonder if the writer knew the difference..... after all it would make sense being rabbits: giant wetas on king kong, new zealand falcon in tintin.. could this be a cameo of the introduced pest in NZ?

Yes I can see the gigantic debate on rabbits and anatomical features of ponies, hounds and life and habitats of bees coming when we get more footage from the films.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Don't forget the eagles....

[Brónach 1,302]

I don't really have a problem with the Lepus, but I don't think the sled idea makes much sense unless there's snow. Just put wheels to it.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Delorean90 42]

Of course, there'd still be the problem of Beorn being mention in LOTR...

Was Beorn mentioned in the films? I don't recall that.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

guys what is this nonsense talk about bunnies?!

Jackrabbits are HARES (genus Lepus)

BIG difference . they are bigger, slender and longer limbed and erared. it makes sense them pulling a sle.... hmmm.... what??????????

I wonder if the writer knew the difference..... after all it would make sense being rabbits: giant wetas on king kong, new zealand falcon in tintin.. could this be a cameo of the introduced pest in NZ?

Yes I can see the gigantic debate on rabbits and anatomical features of ponies, hounds and life and habitats of bees coming when we get more footage from the films.

god i had forgotten they will be CGI...

the horror. I can already see the arkward walking of the hares and anatomic errors. damn, rabbits and hares walk in a very un-pull-a-sled friendly way, as they have short forelimbs. they make small hops, moving they hindlimbs at the same time. It's onñy going to look decent running at full speed...

i say, are there not tons of other animals in the world more suitable to be shown pulling a sled, are they?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

No, none that would conform to the world of Tolkien.

I suppose a huge eagle with a crown on its head is fine though.

[Marian Schedenig 8,192]

Of course, there'd still be the problem of Beorn being mention in LOTR...

Was Beorn mentioned in the films? I don't recall that.

Not in the films, no. But in the book.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

There's a short mention of him just before the Council of Elrond, and in the appendices

[Wojo 2,453]

Thank you Faleel for picking up on Beorn. He is the "other" character I implied.

I'd like to know how a giant eagle puts a crown onto his head and keeps it there all the time.

[Incanus 5,714]

Thank you Faleel for picking up on Beorn. He is the "other" character I implied.

I'd like to know how a giant eagle puts a crown onto his head and keeps it there all the time.

I just checked. Quite easily. A little bobbing back and forth but it stays on.

[Brónach 1,302]

I'd like to know how a giant eagle puts a crown onto his head and keeps it there all the time.

It could have feathers that apparent being a sort of crown on its head. Kind of a dinosaur inspired solution.

[Incanus 5,714]

I'd like to know how a giant eagle puts a crown onto his head and keeps it there all the time.

It could have feathers that apparent being a sort of crown on its head. Kind of a dinosaur inspired solution.

Well the crown was a gift from the Dwarves if I remember correctly.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Incanus 5,714]

Like totally badass!

Gwaihîr the Starfish hair-do.

[Wojo 2,453]

I'd like to know how a giant eagle puts a crown onto his head and keeps it there all the time.

It could have feathers that apparent being a sort of crown on its head.

Yeah, great idea...

So...what happens when a non-king eagle is born with those feathers on its head? Does the real king just chew them out?

[Incanus 5,714]

Of course not. There will be a kick-ass aerial battle where they tear at each other until either one drops. If the winner still has enough of those bad-ass Starfish hair-do feathers in place he'll rule the Eagles. Until the fateful day another Starfish is born...

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[KK 3,307]

No, no, no, no, no. You guys got it all wrong!

The thing is, with eagles, you've got two types of kings: the "Born Kings" and the "Crowned Kings". The "Born Kings" are eagles that are born with those type of feathers on the head. The "Crowned Kings" are eagles that were given feathers to be put on their head. During the eagles history, there often existed two kings at the same time, a Born King and a Crowned King. Sometimes, it was one and the same (a Born King which was given even more feathers to put on his head). But the problem, as you can all see, is that eagles had to choose between two kings to follow. So, which one did they follow? Well, some historians think that they only followed the king with the more feathers (which is, as you would all notice, a bit stupid, since an eagle with more feathers is heavier, and have more difficulties to fly). But the truth is, eagles always followed Crowned Kings, and never Born Kings. Born Kings were only regent of themselves. A Born King could only gives order to himself. Only once did eagles followed a Born King. It was in 2,000 B.C. (Before Curunir). Their last Crowned King had died, and they were out of feathers to crown a new one. They had no choice but to follow an eagle called Falcon, who was a Born King. Falcon The Eagle was remembered as the worst regent the world of eagles has ever seen. But he was remembered fondly by Born Kings, that's for sure.

A very intriguing theory, however your timeline is messy. 2000 B.C.?! Come on BloodBoal...since when did Christ walk the grounds of Arda? And I think you forgot to mention to the great prophecy of the Born King. It is said that a Born King shall rise to either destroy the entire eagle race and bring it to ruin, or to rise and lead the eagles to gain dominance over Middle-Earth. Most eagles like to believe the former while the Born Kings obviously like to believe the latter. Personally, I think the prophecy was just made up propoganda nonsense to inspire more hatred towards the Born Kings. I believe the prophecy was spread by the Crowned Kings right after the fall of Falcon The Eagle.

Well, that's all for today, folks. Tomorrow, we'll learn more about snails' reproduction system in Arda. See you tomorrow!

I think the next topic we should talk about are the fabled oversized bunnies of Arda. They're really a fascinating specimen.

[chuck 154]

I love the biology lessons in a JW forum....