The OFFICIAL The Dark Knight thread

[QMM 4]

From comingsoon.net

The biggest news from Mr. Zimmer, who told us that he's "playing around" and "getting some ideas" is the fact that he's crafting a new Batman theme for the second movie in the relaunched franchise. "It's going to evolve," He told us. "There is a big Batman theme which I was playing with for the last one, but I always felt the character hadn't earned it yet, so I just want to go and play around, and I now want to go and complete that theme, so that's part of the idea. I felt I had a good start, and now it would be really nice to develop that world a little further."

[Wycket 36]

From comingsoon.net

The biggest news from Mr. Zimmer, who told us that he's "playing around" and "getting some ideas" is the fact that he's crafting a new Batman theme for the second movie in the relaunched franchise. "It's going to evolve," He told us. "There is a big Batman theme which I was playing with for the last one, but I always felt the character hadn't earned it yet, so I just want to go and play around, and I now want to go and complete that theme, so that's part of the idea. I felt I had a good start, and now it would be really nice to develop that world a little further."

I thought this was common knowledge among us score fans, as I believe James Newton Howard has said as much as well. I guess its at least comforting to have confirmation.

[Morlock 11]

Indeed.

Morlock- eagerly looking forward to the movie and score

[Red 75]

Hopefully it will be better than Begins' score.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

I just wish Howard would stay far away from the project. I'm not generally a Zimmer-basher, but eveyone attached to the film clearly wants the Zimmer/MV/RC sound, which leaves JNH to do the unremarkable "emotional" leftovers. His talents could be spent so much better elsewhere.

Ray Barnsbury

[Morlock 11]

JNH did not just do the emotional leftovers. In fact, seeing as they orchestrated each other pieces, it is entirely possible that Zimmer did the so called emotional leftovers. And Howard seems to like the percussive, not terribly melodic sound.

As a big JNH fan, I was initially bummed out by discovering that he has also has a really generic, urban sound, that goes against the glorious rich and melodic sound he has in his best scores. I got used to the idea now. Both Zimmer and Howard are very, very capable of anything in the Batman Begins score. And, seeing as they delibaratly rewrote and reorchestrated each other's pieces, it is impossible to know who wrote what.

[Vaderbait1 1]

I just don't buy Zimmer's argument. If he could have scored a good score for Batman Begins, he would have. He may not have "earned" the Batman theme, but that shouldn't have stopped him from coming up with a theme at all. I know some people will say there was a theme, somewhere in the noise, that was three ascending notes or something, but I'm talking a real score.

I just don't buy Zimmer telling us he's deliberately "evolving" the score. I think, at best, The Dark Knight could have a good score, but it won't be evolved. It'll just be totally different from Begins.

[Morlock 11]

...but both compsoers said the same thing when the first film was released, that the material in this score was supposed to be the origins of the full theme, which would be presented in full in a later film.

[QMM 4]

I just don't buy Zimmer's argument. If he could have scored a good score for Batman Begins, he would have. He may not have "earned" the Batman theme, but that shouldn't have stopped him from coming up with a theme at all. I know some people will say there was a theme, somewhere in the noise, that was three ascending notes or something, but I'm talking a real score.

I just don't buy Zimmer telling us he's deliberately "evolving" the score. I think, at best, The Dark Knight could have a good score, but it won't be evolved. It'll just be totally different from Begins.

Uh, the theme actually came up 3 times in the movie and twice on the soundtrack (Mollossus is one of the tracks)

[Red 75]

A Batman score needs to have themes.

[Morlock 11]

Yes, it does need themes. And it does have themes. The question is whether it needs big themes. Chris Nolan obviously doesn't think his Batman needs big themes. And, seeing as the first score worked well in the film, I'm disinclined to doubt him. Elfman's score was sublime, perfect for Burtons's film. But it is not where Nolan was going with his character (i.e. a movie about Batman starring The Joker or Penguin).

[Red 75]

I agree that it worked somewhat well in the film, but Batman needs to have an operatic element to it. It should be bigger, and hopefully it will be.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

JNH did not just do the emotional leftovers. In fact, seeing as they orchestrated each other pieces, it is entirely possible that Zimmer did the so called emotional leftovers. And Howard seems to like the percussive, not terribly melodic sound.

As a big JNH fan, I was initially bummed out by discovering that he has also has a really generic, urban sound, that goes against the glorious rich and melodic sound he has in his best scores. I got used to the idea now. Both Zimmer and Howard are very, very capable of anything in the Batman Begins score. And, seeing as they delibaratly rewrote and reorchestrated each other's pieces, it is impossible to know who wrote what.

I attribute those claims more to diplomacy and their mutual friendship, rather than what actually took place. But even if Howard did play an equal role, the score sounds vastly more like a Zimmer score than a Howard score. So I don't see a point to having JNH, a fine composer in his own right (and one far superior to Zimmer) on board to dumb his own music down to the level of his colleague's.

Ray Barnsbury

[Morlock 11]

Hey, they both admitted that they did it mainly for the fun of working on it together. And while, even being a Zimmer fan, pretend that he is any where near as refined a composer as Howard is, the score's feel and sound I'm sure are entirely due to the director's wishes. I never bought that argument that a composer should be spending his time doing a better movie, or writing better music. Variety, of all sorts, is by far the most important aspect in a composer's body of work.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

Variety is great, but Howard has plenty of that already (look at "Lady in the Water" vs. "Blood Diamond" from last year alone), without being asked by a director to ape someone else's style. That's all I'm saying.

Ray Barnsbury

[Morlock 11]

I hear ya.

[Elmo Lewis 6]

I know some people will say there was a theme, somewhere in the noise, that was three ascending notes or something, but I'm talking a real score.

So it has to be a theme you like or else it isn't a real theme? That's Zimmer's style and choice for the film. I don't see how a "real score" (although I don't really know exactly what you mean by that) would have been more adequate for Begins.

But it is not where Nolan was going with his character (i.e. a movie about Batman starring The Joker or Penguin).

Come on, you were doing so good up until the "i.e.". The Dark Knight will feature the Joker (though we don't know how much exactly) and still Elfman's theme would stick out like a sore thumb.

The Nolan saga isn't about a superhero. It doesn't need a superhero theme.

-Ross, grumpy... apparently.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

To me, these all seem like weak excuses for there not being any good themes in the first film.

Ray Barnsbury

[QMM 4]

Ok if you go to 3:16 in Myotis you'll hear one of the major themes (or if it's a variation or whatever) and 0:40 in Molossus

The third time doesn't appear on the album and is when Bruce opens up the cabinet and you see the mask in it.

[Morlock 11]

To me, these all seem like weak excuses for there not being any good themes in the first film.

Ray Barnsbury

A good old disagreement. I think the film has two good, and very appropriate themes.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

I suppose you're entitled.

Ray Barnsbury

[Vaderbait1 1]

To me, these all seem like weak excuses for there not being any good themes in the first film.

Ray Barnsbury

A good old disagreement. I think the film has two good, and very appropriate themes.

That's exactly what I meant by someone would respond that there are themes. Some people are happy with a "theme" that isn't anything worth listening to. I understand it may fit the definition of a theme, but if you can't remember ever hearing it after listening to the album, it's not good enough for me.

So it has to be a theme you like or else it isn't a real theme? That's Zimmer's style and choice for the film. I don't see how a "real score" (although I don't really know exactly what you mean by that) would have been more adequate for Begins.

This is going to sound harsh, but by "real score" I mean a score with themes and beautiful music, not noise and more noise. It doesn't have to be huge. Howard could have done a good score for Batman Begins, but instead we get this mess with no themes that one can recognize without being told where to look or listening a million times, but it needs something.

[Marian Schedenig 8,192]

I don't need a Nolan movie to have big themes. Yulyan's scores for his films work very well. My problem with the BB score is that it simply does nothing for the movie. It doesn't make scenes worse (like some recent Horner scores have done), but it doesn't make them any better, either. It's just there (it you notice it).

[Vaderbait1 1]

I don't need a Nolan movie to have big themes. Yulyan's scores for his films work very well. My problem with the BB score is that it simply does nothing for the movie. It doesn't make scenes worse (like some recent Horner scores have done), but it doesn't make them any better, either. It's just there (it you notice it).

That's exactly right. This score is the worst example of film scores. For years film scores have been derided as simple background noise, and that's what BB becomes. It represents nearly every criticism of film music. Nolan's movies don't need big themes, but they need something.

[Morlock 11]

Like I said, I disagree. I think that Nolan's films in general rarely have music that really helps the films. And, a lot of the BB score is very much the same. But there are moments when it works. And I totally disagree about the concept of themes. A theme can be anything. A theme can be a little, unassuming gesture. Batman Begins has a 3-4 thematic ideas, and, IMO they are effective in and out of the film. Either way, I think they are better than anything I've from Julyan.

[Red 75]

A huge number of stills have been released. Here is a collection of all of them.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

I can see wires!

What kind of cheap production is this?

[Red 75]

I'm pretty sure that pic was taken during shooting, without any post-production work.

[Saxbabe 28]

IMO, it's Zimmer who needs to stay out of Batman. If Nolan doesn't want big "themes" for his Batdude, no problem, subtle, dark and sophisticated yet powerful is right up JNH's alley, Zimmer/RC/MV, they just don't have that.

But since they're good friends, it's fun for the two composers to work together, so that's fine, I just wish Nolan would have from the beginning realized how great JNH alone would've been...

But yeah, looks like a cool movie so far, I'm there, even with the so-so score I still went to see BB at least twice, it was just a hell of an impressive, well-made film, that was visually gorgeous and an awesome addition to the story. D*mn, I would see it again if it it were in theatres again, and that's rare for me.

Not liking the techno batsuit so much here, but the freaky Joker stuff is nice, and Christian Bale is a great reason to go see anything.

[Delorean90 42]

I've just read some tidbits from some kind of Wizard Magazine convention or something. There are some pretty cool stuff mentioned. I'm pretty excited.

If you were going to go with a solo composer, another possibility that intrigues me is Don Davis. After hearing some of his work on the Matrix films, I'm sure he could pull off some great music that fits in. And while I do think that it's bogus for a superhero to have to go a full movie without having earned his theme yet, I just hope this means we'll have a more active score that better complements the visuals. I know Zimmer and Howard can both write good stuff, and the more I hear Begins, the more I hear their talent shining through to some extent. They do have their moments in the score, it just needed to let rip. The theme that I assume is Batman's (so far--I'm curious as to what theme Batman needed to earn if the one we hear when he pulls Falcone out of the car isn't it.) is actually very good. I think they could stand to inject more musical fluidity to it. A lot of it was more pounding and rhythm/chord-heavy, and I really want to hear a bit more melody. You can do dark and serious without resorting to boring atmospherics.

[QMM 4]

(so far--I'm curious as to what theme Batman needed to earn if the one we hear when he pulls Falcone out of the car isn't it.)

I always thought that was the theme

[Romão 2,274]

Here's a new pic of Heath Ledger as the Joker

[Delorean90 42]

WHOA!!! That was...unexpected.

Purple and green, baby!! That's what I'm talking about! I'm glad they're not ditching the traditional scheme as some had feared.

Now, as for Ledger himself...you know, we're still not seeing him straight on, and in the light. I still can't fully judge at this point. His face definitely looks different than in the initial pic, which makes me think that either A) that was an earlier makeup test, or B) it was of Joker earlier in the film. I'm leaning towards the former, just because it looks so different from this. It looks like they're aging him some, unless all of that is scarring (don't think so). He doesn't look as white as before, although that could have something to do with the lighting. Where the light is most directly hitting, it seems it is a bit paler around the glare. Hmm... Also, the sloppy lipstick isn't so prominent here. It's weird, this pic almost looks like he's just gotten beaten up or something. Very interesting. I definitely like the hair. Very true to the Joker, and again, I'm glad they're not wimping out on the green, there.

Thanks for the post, Merkel! Do you recall when we're supposed to have an actual footage trailer? It was around Christmas, right? Ah, there was that "See you in December" message. Man, I will be so glad when this comes out!

[Romão 2,274]

It will be more than a regular trailer, it will be 5-minute sequence that works as a sort of prelude to the movie. And I reckon it comes out in about 2 weeks.

[Delorean90 42]

Really? Wow, that's cool. I've been out of the loop for a while, so it's nice to hear some news.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

I like his gritty look. No idea if he'll come close to Nicholson's iconic portrayal of the character though. But it'll be interesting to see such a different take on it.

Ray Barnsbury - not a big fan of Nolan's first Batman film

[Red 75]

The prologue featuring Joker will be shown with IMAX screenings of I Am Legend, which comes out in December.

Very cool picture, it's somewhat different than ones we've already seen. Empire online unveiled the photo with flipping cards, a nod to the movie.

[Red 75]

Wizard Magazine's newest issue also has a new picture of Joker on it:

Pretty disturbing, I have to say.

[Romão 2,274]

I was just about to post this. Looks fantastic, I can't wait for this movie.

[gkgyver 1,645]

Venom also looked fantastic.

And only god knows why Raimi seems to have been constantly drugged while shooting that godawful movie.

[Delorean90 42]

I gotta say, I was concerned, but this is really looking pretty good. A nose prosthetic might've been nice, but overall, it looks like Nolan has done it again. It seems every time I find something to doubt, it gets turned around eventually. The only thing left is the score...

One thing I've noticed: in all of these pictures we have yet to see a full out smile from the Joker (I can't even see Ledger here, and I mean that in a good way). I think they're saving it. This is the third time we've been able to clearly see the Joker, and still no full smile, only a grin in the second picture. Very interesting.

[QMM 4]

Venom also looked fantastic.

And only god knows why Raimi seems to have been constantly drugged while shooting that godawful movie.

Raimi didn't want to use Venom, the studios pushed it on him. He didn't know what to do with him and it shows

[indy4 155]

Venom also looked fantastic.

And only god knows why Raimi seems to have been constantly drugged while shooting that godawful movie.

I didn't think it was as bad as the reviews it got. True, there were too many sub plots, but I didn't find that TOO distracting. What annoyed me was how each movie has the same formula: Spidey must worry about his life with M.J., as well as the other parts of his normal life. Something weird happens with his powers (first one, well, he gets them, second one, they stop working, third one, the whole black suit thing). Then in the end, the villain takes M.J. and holds her for randsom, forcing Spidey to save the day once again. I would give it ***/*****, for I've seen MUCH worse.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

I actually haven't seen much worse than that piece-of-garbage film (and no, I didn't actually type garbage). But that's neither here nor there!

Back to topic, is the Joker the only villain in The Dark Knight?

[Audax 0]

Yes, although Harvey Dent will also play an important role. But I believe I read somewhere that he wouldn't be turned into Two-Face (by the mr. J.) until the 3rd movie. Oh and if you weren't speaking exclusively about super-villains; the mob will also have some importance...

[QMM 4]

Yes, although Harvey Dent will also play an important role. But I believe I read somewhere that he wouldn't be turned into Two-Face (by the mr. J.) until the 3rd movie. Oh and if you weren't speaking exclusively about super-villains; the mob will also have some importance...

The mob is actually being led by

SPOILER

Scarecrow

SPOILER

This has been confirmed by pictures taken of the shooting

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

Isn't that...redundant?

[QMM 4]

It's more of the character so I can't complain

[Red 75]

Two-Face is confirmed to have an appearance in this film, but it will probably only be a glorified cameo at the end.

[gkgyver 1,645]

Raimi didn't want to use Venom, the studios pushed it on him. He didn't know what to do with him and it shows

Well, the movie sure has more lethal problems than the radical underuse and misportrayal of Venom.