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Confirmed - no "lost" battle music for Ep 2

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They might score the battle since they are doing rescoring on Episode 4.... I mean Star Wars, I mean A New Hope, I mean Episode..... WHO THE HELL CARES!!!!?! it's the same bloody movie. Originally anyway, and then we have the special edition for those who like that sort of thing. Either way, you guys are arguing over the fact that all of you have a version you prefer. I wish all movies had three different versions for people to choose from!

Sheesh!!!!!!! :roll:

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Guest macrea   
Guest macrea

The only reason to call the film "A New Hope" is to avoid confusion when one is speaking about the series of films. There is nothing wrong with refering to it as STAR WARS, whether you approve of the other films wholeheartedly or not. Even the filmmakers and Fox refer to it as STAR WARS. The trailers and the posters for the special edition 1997 releases did not call it "A New Hope." Even on the S/E soundtrack, the title STAR WARS was large and the episode title was small underneath. There is nothing wrong with this inconsistency since it continues to this day. For TPM and AOTC the episode titles were underplayed in the trailers in favor of "Episode I" and "Episode II" and the newsads and soundtrack albums favored the title "Star Wars." Yes the title "A New Hope" existed from the time the script was first published in 1978, but there was no reason to refer to the film as that until it was proven successful enough to warrant a sequel. Everyone, Lucas included, expected the movie to tank. Consequently, the first movie released in 1977, which became the biggest hit of all time and was nominated for Best Picture, and which was later declared a national treasure and one of the best movies ever made according to the AFI.... is called STAR WARS. Some of the foregoing posts make me feel like I should apologize for being 32 years old and hence able to have lived in a world for 3 years in which a movie called STAR WARS was known by that name only.

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The title of Williams' work is Star Wars.

But he didn't choose the title and doesn't own it. Lucas does.

So?

So?? So??? That makes his opinion on it no more important than ours.

It proves that Star Wars is the title of the score.

Original title yes. But that is bloody obvious. I thought you were trying to make another point.

Not only the original title' date=' but THE title of the score.[/quote']

So?

Ricard - Who doesn't really care about that 'SW Saga Lover' thing

Ricard II - Whose favorite SW movie is ROTJ.

Ricard III - Who thinks that TPM and AOTC can't be taken seriously as SW movies, or as movies in general. :angry:

:( At least someone else knows ROTJ is a great movie, not as good as TESB though. ROTFLMAO

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1- Luke, I'm surprised that you don't know that the Star Wars Double LP became the n.1 selling soundtrack of all time in 1977. It may not be the best, but it's definitely the most important release of the score. And that's not an opinion, it's a fact.

2- That both titles ('Star Wars' and 'Star Wars: Episode IV - A New Hope') are equally valid.

3- So the 'purists' are not SW saga lovers. I see...

4- :(  

1- Lets see, my opinion is that if it is complete it is the bst release (my opinion)

And I agree with you. But you said 'the most important release', NOT the best. The most important release of the Star Wars score is the original 2LP. And that's a fact.

I dont care for 1977 release. I will never have it and i was -6 years old that time.

Perhaps that's why you don't know what I'm talking about.

2- I'm sorry, you were saying that SW was the true title. Next time say it clearer, i would not have argued that. (i would habve sayd that A New Hope has more importance nowadays (and a decade ago, SW did)

And I'm sorry if I wasn't clear enough, but it was a discussion with Morn, who, like you, doesn't seem to understand that the title 'Star Wars' is as valid as 'A New Hope'.

3- Definately not. A movie is not a saga. And the SW saga is composed of 6 movies. If a decade ago it was composed of 3 (called more commonly trilogy) doesnt matter now. Now, is the fact. ROTFLMAO

Listen. The 'purists' or those who despise the prequels (but enjoy the other THREE movies -not just one) are as much as SW saga lovers as you are. Saying otherwise is disrespectful and offensive towards those who were there in May 1977.

4- What is so funny?! I said facts.

No. You compared those millions of people who (like myself) felt insulted by the Prequels, to the minority who don't think of TESB and ROTJ as true SW movies.

you are still not a saga lover. Maybe old trilogy one

You're to tell me what I am or what I'm not? :roll:

Ricard III: NO COMMENT

:angry:

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The only reason to call the film "A New Hope" is to avoid confusion when one is speaking about the series of films.  There is nothing wrong with refering to it as STAR WARS, whether you approve of the other films wholeheartedly or not.  Even the filmmakers and Fox refer to it as STAR WARS.  The trailers and the posters for the special edition 1997 releases did not call it "A New Hope."  Even on the S/E soundtrack, the title STAR WARS was large and the episode title was small underneath.  There is nothing wrong with this inconsistency since it continues to this day.  For TPM and AOTC the episode titles were underplayed in the trailers in favor of "Episode I" and "Episode II" and the newsads and soundtrack albums favored the title "Star Wars."  Yes the title "A New Hope" existed from the time the script was first published in 1978, but there was no reason to refer to the film as that until it was proven successful enough to warrant a sequel.  Everyone, Lucas included, expected the movie to tank.  Consequently, the first movie released in 1977, which became the biggest hit of all time and was nominated for Best Picture, and which was later declared a national treasure and one of the best movies ever made according to the AFI.... is called STAR WARS.  Some of the foregoing posts make me feel like I should apologize for being 32 years old and hence able to have lived in a world for 3 years in which a movie called STAR WARS was known by that name only.
bowdown:thumbup::):lurk: beerchug :ola:

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well, i just read that Episode III is going into production in June of 2003, which is much more in advance than the last two. this could be very good news for the score, becuase John Williams might be shown an almost complete version of the film. this means that he can score all of it and there won't be any bad edits because hopefully the film will be done by the time Johnny records the score in January of 2005.  

just my two cents.  :)  

Ted

Let's hope so! It's really sad that we have to wonder if JW will be able to write a complete score to any movie, let alone a SW one.

Ray Barnsbury

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As I said, all prequels have started production 2 years prior release, so Episode III will not start no sooner nor latter than the other 2 prequels.

I hear ya! I'm just being optimistic. :|

Ray Barnsbury

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As I said, all prequels have started production 2 years prior release, so Episode III will not start no sooner nor latter than the other 2 prequels.

my mistake. i just thought that he started a few months later. well, hopefully George learned his lesson and will give Williams more time (and more film for pete's sake!) to score the whole movie and get a move on the post production so that horrendous edits won't take place. if he's shooting principal photography in the summer of 2003, about two years prior to its release, it should pretty much be done by early February of 2005. there is no excuse for the butchery that has taken place in the past two movies with regards to the music.

Ted- who is still very very upset about what happened to the music in AOTC. :|

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Well I mean HOW MUCH missing music is there??

There is like what?? Nearly 80 minutes on the regular CD?? The one with that bonus track.

How much more music is there??

15-20 minutes tops I would think. Now enough to justify a second CD IMO.

Especially considering the score is NOT EXACTLY a JW masterpiece by any means IMO.

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Guest macrea   
Guest macrea

According to John Takis's analysis there is still more than 2 hours of score even after you take out all the loops, trackings, and TPM music.

(Thanks for the smilies, Ricard! Thought I didn't have a friend in the world!)

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15-20 minutes tops I would think. Now enough to justify a second CD IMO.

Of course it is! :|

Especially considering the score is NOT EXACTLY a JW masterpiece by any means IMO.

Yes, but it's still great.

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First of all I did not say I did not like the score. I thought it was good as far as scores go. I just think it is not very good as far as John Williams' scores go.

Secondly I meant I myself personally would not pay to buy a 2CD set if it only had 15 more minutes of music.

If there are people on here who would like that sort of thing. Hey, that is great for them. That is why I stated this was all MY OPINION. Others who disagree could buy it.

IMO any 2nd CD should cotain AT LEAST 35 more minutes of music. 30 BARE MINIMUM!!!!

15-20 minutes more is not enough IMO. Thats my opinion.

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Hopefully it would have a few alternates :|

Arg.

Why don't I just make a dvd rip of the score?

Morn - Who now can and doesn't need Chrusher ;)

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Listen. The 'purists' or those who despise the prequels (but enjoy the other THREE movies -not just one) are as much as SW saga lovers as you are. Saying otherwise is disrespectful and offensive towards those who were there in May 1977.  

Neil only likes SW or ar least he considers it the only SW movie. So he cannot like the SW saga.

And ROJ is as nearly despised as the Prequels by many 'purits' (although here it may not be the case)

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Neil only likes SW or ar least he considers it the only SW movie. So he cannot like the SW saga.

Of course, if someone only likes one movie, he doesn't like the saga. But that's not what we're talking about! We talk about those who only consider the Trilogy (and not the Prequels) as true SW. Those are the 'purists'

And ROJ is as nearly despised as the Prequels by many 'purits' (although here it may not be the case)

1) That's a false statement.

2) Many 'purists' may not like ROTJ, but they still consider it a Star Wars movie (unlike the prequels). See the difference?

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Guest   
Guest

Mmmmmmh..... interesting discussion. With these definitions, I could say Tim Burton is a purist...for instance.

I'm not a purist.

New SW films! Inserted deleted footage! New F/X!

That's what I like.

empiresun

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Well I mean HOW MUCH missing music is there??

There is like what?? Nearly 80 minutes on the regular CD?? The one with that bonus track.

How much more music is there??  

15-20 minutes tops I would think. Now enough to justify a second CD IMO.

Especially considering the score is NOT EXACTLY a JW masterpiece by any means IMO.

The 14 track CD is a little over 76 minutes. The complete score I believe is about 125 minutes. That's almost 50 minutes of un-released music, and I don't think that includes the tracked in Phantom Menace music. What is needed is a properly assembled Attack of the Clones score, and not something hacked up like the "Ultimate Edition" of The Phantom Menace, but then we've been saying this since May.

And yes, Star Wars is the best film of the series. The Empire Strikes Back is a well made film, but it sets up "the saga" (Star Wars is a stand alone film and can be viewed on its own). Empire's biggest problem is that it's ending is Return of the Jedi, a film almost as boring as Attack of the Clones.

Neil

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2) Many 'purists' may not like ROTJ, but they still consider it a Star Wars movie (unlike the prequels). See the difference?

No i do not. I Have heard purist saying that ROJ is AS bad as the prequels. And some only like SW so they do not think as SW ESB neither ROJ. Not on this page though

Luke, who thiks its silly try to intend the prequels are not SW films because HELL, THEY ARE. that is a fact as big as a blue whale. You can or cant like it, but not say childish things like that. It is not like George lucas was dead a decade ago and someone were trying to make more movies based on his work.

NOTE: please do not say that 'george' died a decade ago and now he is not the same. because its a lie, and you all know.

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And yes, Star Wars is the best film of the series.  The Empire Strikes Back is a well made film, but it sets up "the saga" (Star Wars is a stand alone film and can be viewed on its own.

Neil

So can The Phantom Menace. And do not tell me 'of course, it is a rip-off', thnk of it as paralelism :devil:

And do not tell me: why the ' but who was destroyed, the master or the apprentice - camera goes to Palpatine' thing then?, becasue Darth Vader survived. and the empire was not overthrown

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It is not like George lucas was dead a decade ago and someone were trying to make more movies based on his work.  

NOTE: please do not say that 'george' died a decade ago and now he is not the same. because its a lie, and you all know.

No, saying George Lucas is the greatest living director would be a lie. :devil:

Creatively, Lucas is not the same person he was 25 years ago. And that's true for anybody. 25 years ago I couldn't even walk. The music that John Williams wrote 25 years ago does not sound like his current stuff. People grow and change. To deny this is childish.

Neil

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Star Wars is:

1. One of the greatest films of all times

2. One of the most perfect films in it's original presentations.

3. One of the most mistreated and maligned films of all times.

4. A movie saga consisting of 5 films, with a 6th to be completed and released in May of 2005.

5. A line of merchandise that has made far more money than all the films combined.

6. A perfect score by John Williams.

7. A line of badly written novels.

8. A cherished movie event that only a handful of us here on this board were able to witness.

9. The 2nd true blockbuster, and the 2nd film to pass 100 million dollars in grosses

10. A parody of its former glory.

11. Many things to many people.

12. A plan by former President Ronald Reagan to build an antimissle defense system

13. Also known as Ep IV A New Hope.

14. A film yet to be released on DVD.

15. My personal favorite of the 5, soon to be 6th film, and my favorite score of the said films.

Joe, who loves Star Wars, both the film and the saga, but wished the prequels were better films, and who still has hopes that Ep III may turn out to be a good film, but I won't hold my breath.

:devil: Princess Leia's Theme from the 1977 score and original 80's cd release of Star Wars, and as Ricard said Ep IV A New Hope is no where to be found on this copy.

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So can The Phantom Menace. And do not tell me 'of course, it is a rip-off', thnk of it as paralelism :devil:

The Phantom Menace is nowhere near as good a movie as Star Wars. And The Phantom Menace is open ended. Obi-Wan is allowed to train Anakin and the Sith situation has just begun. In Star Wars the shot of Vader surviving the attack on the Death Star was obviously put in in case a sequel was ever made. With the prequels (and The Empire Strikes Back) the sequels are inevitable, so they are designed to be open-ended.

Neil

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Creatively, Lucas is not the same person he was 25 years ago.  And that's true for anybody.  25 years ago I couldn't even walk.  The music that John Williams wrote 25 years ago does not sound like his current stuff.  People grow and change.  To deny this is childish.

Neil

I think Mr Williams didn't grow a lot since 1977 (he changed of course) :devil:

To deny the SW Prequel trilogy as true SW is too. And lets not talk about 'believing' that SW is not called ANH :angry: <- i dont want to start this again only joking, ok?

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So can The Phantom Menace. And do not tell me 'of course, it is a rip-off', thnk of it as paralelism :devil:

The Phantom Menace is nowhere near as good a movie as Star Wars. And The Phantom Menace is open ended. Obi-Wan is allowed to train Anakin and the Sith situation has just begun. In Star Wars the shot of Vader surviving the attack on the Death Star was obviously put in in case a sequel was ever made. With the prequels (and The Empire Strikes Back) the sequels are inevitable, so they are designed to be open-ended.

Neil

As i said the Empire was not defeated and the Emperor was alive. If Vader survived to make a possible sequel, itns SW or ANH open ended?

I'm not saying TPM or ANH is better or not , i'm just saying the the two of them can stand on its own.

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Well, I'm not sure that open ended means a film can't stand on it's own, there are examples of films that are open ended without sequels. I think TESB can stand alone because it's plot is not exactly a to be continued of ANH.

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Open ended means there are story elements left un-resolved. Star Wars is a self contained film. Everything is wrapped up at the end of it. Vader is still alive, but so what? He was not the brains behind that movie. Vader played second fiddle to Tarkin.

The Phantom Menace, Attack of the Clones and The Empire Strikes Back all have story issues that are not answered in the films and demand a sequel. They need the sequels. Star Wars does not. Star Wars can stand on its own. You can watch only that film and be perfectly satisifed (assuming you've watched the original edit :devil: ), because you've watched a great film and the story is over. The only other film in the series to have a closed ending is Return of the Jedi and I will not pull any cheap shots by making fun of that ending. Lets just say it's not quite as good as Star Wars' ending.

Neil

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Open ended means there are story elements left un-resolved. Star Wars is a self contained film. Everything is wrapped up at the end of it.

Arguably TESB is quite wrapped up, they lost (which is satisfying in the sense of an anti-cliche :devil: ), the only remaining issue is Han, ANH still has Vader....

However, ROTJ does not stand alone because too much of the plot depends on TESB.

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Once again Morn trys to beat a dead horse.

Star Wars ending is complete. The rebel forces have destroyed the deathstar. Darth Vadar Lives but there is no continuing story line.

In the Empire Strikes Back, it doesn't end, on that count Morn you are completely and totally wrong.

3 reasons.

1. Vadar reveals himself to be Lukes father. It is opened ended in that Luke questions this, and asks Ben why but gets no answer. Is he or isn't he.

2. Han is captured and given to the bounty hunter. It is opened because Lando, and Chewie go off in the Millenium Falcon to rescue him, with Luke and Leia to follow.

3. There is another according to Yoda, this comment is left unanswered as well.

Not having a true ending doesn't really hurt the film, IMHO it is the greatest sequel of all time, yes even better than Godfather II. By the way I don't think anyone has ever said it better than Neil when he said the ending to the Empire Strikes Back is Return of the Jedi. Brilliantly said.

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Star Wars ending is complete. The rebel forces have destroyed the deathstar. Darth Vadar Lives but there is no continuing story line.

The Rebelian has yet to win, Luke has yet to become a Jedi like his father and Vader has yet to be defeated.

Those are good points about TESB, but the plot definately resolves to some extent, with the carbon freezing of Han. And true ending.... I don't see why something has to be done in the usual way.

Also, I don't quite think Return of the Jedi has a proper closed ending, because it is not clear exactly what has happened to the empire and if it is going to fall or have a civil war or just if a general will take over as new emperor. :?

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The Rebelian has yet to win, Luke has yet to become a Jedi like his father and Vader has yet to be defeated.

Star Wars wasn't about the Rebels winning a war, just a battle, and Vader was defeated, he just survived, and he was only a 2nd fiddle to Tarkin.

and the real talk of Luke becoming a Jedi like his father comes from TESB more than anything else. Remember the ghostly vision of Obi-Wan when he tells Luke he must go to Dagoba, there you will be meet Qui-Gon, oops Yoda, the Jedi master who instructed me.

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The Rebelian has yet to win, Luke has yet to become a Jedi like his father and Vader has yet to be defeated.

Star Wars wasn't about the Rebels winning a war, just a battle, and Vader was defeated, he just survived, and he was only a 2nd fiddle to Tarkin.

and the real talk of Luke becoming a Jedi like his father comes from TESB more than anything else. Remember the ghostly vision of Obi-Wan when he tells Luke he must go to Dagoba, there you will be meet Qui-Gon, oops Yoda, the Jedi master who instructed me.

Lets see. You cannot end a movie witjh a tyrant emperor dancing in a galaxy (and vader too) The Emperor is mentioned on ANH.

As far as i'm concerned, ANH and TPM have the same plot holes to make them unconclused, or from a different point of view, similar endings, so they could stand on its own. In fact the Trade Federation was defeated, the Empire was not.

Joe, please stop using Qui-Gon- Obi-Wan- Yoda training as a plot hole. Didnt you see Yoda training the Younglins? Obi wan was one too. Yoda trains the kids. After that as head of the council, (and wise ass) he advises older jedi. And this is not EU its seen in the movies. Canon. Period

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[

Joe, Didnt you see Yoda training the Younglins? Obi wan was one too. Yoda trains the kids. After that as head of the council, (and wise ass) he advises older jedi. And this is not EU its seen in the movies. Canon. Period

when I saw The Empire Strikes Back the first time I didn't know any of that, I just thougth Yoda was the jedi master who instructed Obi-Wan, and that Obi-Wan tried but failed to instruct Anakin, the way Yoda instructed him.

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ok everyone, this is going nowhere! the star wars issue has been argued and argued and argue on this Board and for no reason really. everyone's got a different opinion... key word: opinon! in many of the above posts, people make as if they're opinion is fact. and the most annoying aspect about people passing their opinion off as fact is that rarely ever do they back it up. if someone loves TPM and AOTC and goes on to mention why he or she thinks so, than that's perfectly valid. everyone approaches this stuff differently. to continue arguing is utterly pointless, especailly when a lot of people act incredibly objectified and self-riteous.

Ted

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I love TPM and AOTC and I love the Original Trilogy. Her in Portugal I actually get as much OT bashing as prequels bashing, as most people really aren't into starwars.

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2) Many 'purists' may not like ROTJ, but they still consider it a Star Wars movie (unlike the prequels). See the difference?

No i do not.

OK, I'll say it more clearly (if possible):

NOT LIKING A SW FILM IS ONE THING.

NOT CONSIDERING IT AS PART OF THE SW SAGA IS ANOTHER THING.

Better now?

I Have heard purist saying that ROJ is AS bad as the prequels.

A minority, of course. But once again, that wasn't the point (if you understood my above statement).

Luke, who thiks its silly try to intend the prequels are not SW films because HELL, THEY ARE. that is a fact as big as a blue whale. .

Of course, they are 'officially' part of the SW universe, like the books and all that stuff (that's an objective statement) But there are millions who don't consider them as 'true' SW movies (not our fault) - and that's a subjective opinion. Although I'm not sure if you'll ever see the difference, judging from your previous reactions...

You can or cant like it, but not say childish things like that...

If I were you I wouldn't use that adjective... :roll:

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That doesn't work, Steef. I still don't like this place. Anyway, I don't think Luke is from Madrid, I would've met him otherwise.

And Luke, I am arguing with you for the last time. It seems that George Lucas has managed to get veeeery deep into your superego so you'd defend him no matter what he does. You say that it's not true that the prequels aren't Star Wars movies. Well, let me ask you something, Luke: What is a Star Wars movie?

You would say "any movie that takes place in the Star Wars universe". But I don't think so. For many, maaaany people (not necessarily me) a Star Wars movie is a movie from their golden age of childhood where myth and science mix, where humanity prevails when together.

That's what Star Wars is about. It's not about machine-men, X-Wings, AT-ATs or Clones. It's about what they represent, about the hopeful and innocently plain message: good triumphs over evil.

I don't think you can make a Star Wars movie by just adding the Star Wars title and the crawling introduction. There's a lot more to Star Wars and let's face it, the Prequels just don't have that sense of good over evil, of peaceful, simple philosophy.

And that's a fact.

-ROSS who nonetheless prefers the Prequel Trilogy storywise.

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By the way I don't think anyone has ever said it better than Neil when he said the ending to the Empire Strikes Back is Return of the Jedi. Brilliantly said.

Giving credit where it's due, a buddy of mine said that to me once as we were having a discussion very similar to this one. In that case though, we were both in total agreement.

Neil

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