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Confirmed - no "lost" battle music for Ep 2

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I attended a seminar today in Hollywood, CA, and it was confirmed by Matt Wood, the supervising sound editor for ATTACK OF THE CLONES, that the plan from the begining was to use music from PHANTOM MENACE for the CLONE WAR section of Reel 6. He said the Clone War was in such embryonic form when the film was turned over to John Williams that it was decided not to compose any original music for the sequence, but instead to track it with music from PHANTOM MENACE. In conjunction with the report from Abbey Road a few months ago and John Takis's mathematical calculations re:cumulative timigs of the score so far, this would seem to clinch it.

Additionally, other scenes that were tracked with music from PHANTOM MENACE, such as the scene on the balcony in Naboo, may have had music written for them that WAS dumped. Matt Wood did not have a definitive answer except to say that the film had been spotted pretty much wall to wall.

Finally, in a demonstration that showed how badly film can deteriorate over the course of time, McCallum showed the first few minutes of the original Star Wars from 1977 - this was 35mm film struck directly from the original camera negative of the print from 1977 and guess what? No Episode 4 A NEW HOPE title in the opening crawl. I saw it with my own eyes today, and it is just as I have always said it was - the crawl was not added until the film was rereleased in 1979 or 1980, just before EMPIRE (it IS possible the EP 4 thing was not added until even 1981, when the film was rereleased again!).

elvisjones

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Not that we didn't knew this already,it would seem more credible by someone who is a REGISTERED member and doesn't call himself"The phantom " or whatever.

K.M.

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I saw STAR WARS more than two dozen times theatrically without "Episode IV" on the opening crawl. To this day, when I think of the film, that's the way I see it in my mind.

As for AOTC, tracking music is one thing, but tracking it:

a) for such an extended section of the movie,

B) for a climactic action sequence,

c) for a Star Wars movie,

d) with poor editing,

all for the sake of having extra time to work on the movie is nothing short of creative suicide.

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Thanks elvisjones. I always thought the original Star Wars was subtitled Episode IV but I guess we've all been duped by a suspect bit of historical revisionism. So much for George Lucas' comprehensive nine-trilogy vision (although I could understand it if the studio decided to cut the subtitle 'cause it would not have made much sense at the time).

And I definitely reckon Williams should score that final battle in AOTC. Or maybe they should just get rid of the botched cut-and-paste TPM music they used entirely because it completely sucks. No music is better than that. And whatever Williams might potentially get around to composing will probably just be completely drowned out by the sound effects anyway (though I would really love to listen to it on its own ;) ).

CYPHER

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Not that we didn't knew this already,it would seem more credible by someone who is a REGISTERED member  and doesn't call himself"The phantom " or whatever.

K.M.

The message is signed Elvisjones.

Stefancos- who considers EJ an authority on all SW matters.

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No Episode 4 A NEW HOPE title in the opening crawl. I saw it with my own eyes today, and it is just as I have always said it was - the crawl was not added until the film was rereleased in 1979 or 1980, just before EMPIRE (it IS possible the EP 4 thing was not added until even 1981, when the film was rereleased again!).

"Episode IV - A New Hope" was not added until the April 10, 1981 re-release.

Neil

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"Episode IV - A New Hope" was not added until the April 10, 1981 re-release.

What does it matter when it was added?

Because Morn, people are always claiming that it was there when they saw Star Wars in 1977. It just isn't the case. There is a lot of confusion as to when it was added. Even EJ said, "the crawl was not added until the film was rereleased in 1979 or 1980, just before EMPIRE (it IS possible the EP 4 thing was not added until even 1981, when the film was rereleased again!). "

The fact is, there is a lot of mis-information out there regarding the title addition. Forgive me for trying to present some accurate information on the internet.

Neil

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I'm sick of this purist it's Star Wars only thing.  ;)

Morn, I never said that in this thread. I was just trying to present some valid information. If you can prove that I'm wrong, please do, otherwise you are wasting my time.

Neil

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These are good news, at lest we knoew that they didnt have time to score them, so maybe they fix it in upcoming releases (2006)

KM, has you something against guests?

- The Phantom, Menacing ;)

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These are good news' date=' at lest we knoew that they didnt have time to score them, so maybe they fix it in upcoming releases (2006)

That would cost money, and i'm not at all convinced Lucas cares enough to be willing to pay for that.

This news just adds to my feeling that AOTC was made in a very...very amatuerish way.

Stefancos- :cry:

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I'm sorry, your sentence in incomprehensible.

Stefancos-  ;)

Did i really wrote that? I'll have to check spelling more ;)

I intended :roll: to say:

He is paying about rescoring the old trilogy. And believe me he can afford it

- The Phan..Luke :biglaugh:

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No kidding. You'd think they'd reason with themselves, "Well, we have five movies already, why do a new score? Let's just track stuff from them for the Episode III score!"

How incredibly disappointing. Why didn't they just give it more time? It ain't like anyone was MAKING Lucas release it on that day, he tells Fox what to do, not the other way around, right?

Bah! Bah! A thousand times, bah!

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Well, this news doesn't change my feelings about that sequence (it's still overdone and too loud), but it does change my presumptions that I have had since I saw it the first time. I had always thought (as did most of us) that Williams had scored the sequence, then had his music cut for any number of reasons. Whether they be because the sequence was badly re-edited and therefore the music didn't work or because Lucas didn't like the music, it made me upset.

Now knowing that there was never a plan to write the music because the sequence was in an "embryonic stage," makes me wonder, as Kevin has, why they didn't push back the date to allow Williams time to score the sequence? I still blame Lucas, but for different reasons.

Jeff -- who hopes every minute of music in Episode III is newly written

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PS. And try to find the title 'A New Hope' in your CD collection (excluding the 1997 SE Release).

Morn's c.d. collection concists of cdr's made from MP3's. :roll:

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KM, has you something against guests?

- The Phantom, Menacing 8O

No,but I have a problem with "guests" that post regurarely without registering.

K.M.Who hadn't seen Elvisjones signature.

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I'm sick of this purist it's Star Wars only thing.  8O

Tell that to JOHN WILLIAMS.

He has said that as a fellow artist he understands why Lucas changes the movies. But not in those words.

PS. And try to find the title 'A New Hope' in your CD collection (excluding the 1997 SE Release).

That's irrelevant.

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You assume Williams decides the title? You assume he cares?

There is nothing you can learn here from the title of Star Wars cd's.

Further more it doesn't really matter what Williams thinks on this issue.

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There is nothing you can learn here from the title of Star Wars cd's.

Sure you can.If Star Wars when released in 1977 would have been titled Star Wars ,A New Hope,then the original polydor L.P. or c.d. would have had that same title and just not Star Wars only.Is that simple enough for you.

K.M.

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Ricard seemed to be using it to back up is statement about telling it to John Williams, not to find out if Star Wars was Star Wars in 1977, which we already know.

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You assume Williams decides the title? You assume he cares?

There is nothing you can learn here from the title of Star Wars cd's.

Further more it doesn't really matter what Williams thinks on this issue.

I don't assume anything. Williams uses Star Wars as the title of the Academy Award Winning score he recorded in 1977. It's HIS work, so what he thinks DEFINITELY matters.

And regarding the CDs, *ALL* re-recordings of music from Star Wars (1977) are credited on dozens of LPs & CDs as Star Wars, and *NONE* as 'A New Hope'. If you think that's not relevant you prove once again YOUR irrelevance to this forum.

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I can bet that the score releases of 2006  :) will have the correct titles (for us, the SW saga lovers)

BOTH titles 'Star Wars' and 'Star Wars: Episode IV - A New Hope' are correct.

(for us, the SW saga lovers)

Are you're implying that those who prefer 'Star Wars' to 'A New Hope' are not SW saga lovers?

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You assume Williams decides the title? You assume he cares?

There is nothing you can learn here from the title of Star Wars cd's.

Further more it doesn't really matter what Williams thinks on this issue.

I don't assume anything. Williams uses Star Wars as the title of the Academy Award Winning score he recorded in 1977. It's HIS work, so what he thinks DEFINITELY matters.

The title is Lucas's work, not his.

And regarding the CDs, *ALL* re-recordings of music from Star Wars (1977) are credited on dozens of LPs & CDs as Star Wars, and *NONE* as 'A New Hope'. If you think that's not relevant you prove once again YOUR irrelevance to this forum.

What is it relevant to? The comment you made to me or the topic of this thread? If the comment you made to me, it doesn't support it in any way as I have said, as you can't infer what he thinks from the titles of his CD's.

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The title is Lucas's work, not his.

The title of Williams' work is Star Wars.

And regarding the CDs, *ALL* re-recordings of music from Star Wars (1977) are credited on dozens of LPs & CDs as Star Wars, and *NONE* as 'A New Hope'. If you think that's not relevant you prove once again YOUR irrelevance to this forum.

What is it relevant to? The comment you made to me or the topic of this thread? If the comment you made to me, it doesn't support it in any way as I have said, as you can't infer what he thinks from the titles of his CD's.

It proves that Star Wars is the title of the score.

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The title of Williams' work is Star Wars.

But he didn't choose the title and doesn't own it. Lucas does.

It proves that Star Wars is the title of the score.

Original title yes. But that is bloody obvious. I thought you were trying to make another point.

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Ricard, the most important release of the score until now is the one from the special edition, that has 'A New Hope'. Anyways i do not know what do you mean to say.

AND DAMN IT! I put 'for us, the SW saga lovers' to say politically corrct that the title is corract for us, the people who like all mivoes, not the purists.

AND DAMN IT! (again) How many times have you and the people that thik like you said that the SW movies are only three (there is even people that thinks that there is only one) The star wars saga is made up of Six movies, so you are not a saga lover since you like as much three movies. And If you only like SW and ESB, less more, and if you like only SW much much less more.

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It proves that Star Wars is the title of the score.

Original title yes. But that is bloody obvious. I thought you were trying to make another point.

Not only the original title, but THE title of the score.

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Hmm....

Star Wars - Epsiode 1: The Phantom Menace

Star Wars - Epsiode 2: Attack of the Clones

Star Wars - Epsiode 3: (???)

Star Wars

Star Wars - Epsiode 5: The Empire Strikes Back

Star Wars - Epsiode 6: Return of the Jedi

Doesn't compute....

Marian - stack overflow

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Ricard, the most important release of the score until now is the one from the special edition, that has 'A New Hope'.

Luke, I'm surprised that you don't know that the Star Wars Double LP became the n.1 selling soundtrack of all time in 1977. It may not be the best, but it's definitely the most important release of the score. And that's not an opinion, it's a fact.

Anyways i do not know what do you mean to say.

That both titles ('Star Wars' and 'Star Wars: Episode IV - A New Hope') are equally valid.

AND DAMN IT! I put 'for us, the SW saga lovers' to say politically corrct that the title is corract for us, the people who like all mivoes, not the purists.

So the 'purists' are not SW saga lovers. I see...

AND DAMN IT! (again) How many times have you and the people that thik like you said that the SW movies are only three (there is even people that thinks that there is only one) The star wars saga is made up of Six movies, so you are not a saga lover since you like as much three movies. And If you only like SW and ESB, less more, and if you like only SW much much less more.

:)

Ricard - Who doesn't really care about that 'SW Saga Lover' thing

Ricard II - Whose favorite SW movie is ROTJ.

Ricard III - Who thinks that TPM and AOTC can't be taken seriously as SW movies, or as movies in general. :)

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1- Luke, I'm surprised that you don't know that the Star Wars Double LP became the n.1 selling soundtrack of all time in 1977. It may not be the best, but it's definitely the most important release of the score. And that's not an opinion, it's a fact.

2- That both titles ('Star Wars' and 'Star Wars: Episode IV - A New Hope') are equally valid.

3- So the 'purists' are not SW saga lovers. I see...

4- :)  

1- Lets see, my opinion is that if it is complete it is the bst release (my opinion) I dont care for 1977 release. I will never have it and i was -6 years old that time.

2- I'm sorry, you were saying that SW was the true title. Next time say it clearer, i would not have argued that. (i would habve sayd that A New Hope has more importance nowadays (and a decade ago, SW did)

3- Definately not. A movie is not a saga. And the SW saga is composed of 6 movies. If a decade ago it was composed of 3 (called more commonly trilogy) doesnt matter now. Now, is the fact. :)

4- What is so funny?! I said facts.

Ricard: no comment

Ricard II: Amazing. But you are still not a saga lover. Maybe old trilogy one

Ricard III: NO COMMENT

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It was called just star wars, now it's called Star Wars Episode IV : A New Hope. The single title "star wars" no longer concerns one movie, but a saga of 5 (in the future 6).

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Ricard, is this harsh, cynical style new? I always thought it was there, I just never believed it had ever surfaced.

Either way, I really like it!

-ROSS, who agrees with Ricard on this matter.

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Ricard - Who doesn't really care about that 'SW Saga Lover' thing

Ricard II - Whose favorite SW movie is ROTJ.

Ricard III - Who thinks that TPM and AOTC can't be taken seriously as SW movies, or as movies in general.

I agree only with Ricard III

Richard%20III.jpg

Well, on reflection, I disagree at all with the three Ricards.

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well, i just read that Episode III is going into production in June of 2003, which is much more in advance than the last two. this could be very good news for the score, becuase John Williams might be shown an almost complete version of the film. this means that he can score all of it and there won't be any bad edits because hopefully the film will be done by the time Johnny records the score in January of 2005.

just my two cents. :(

Ted

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All prequels began shooting 2 years prior release, so Episode III will not enter production sooner or later than the other 2 prequels. i do hope, John Williams scores new music for the Battle of Geonosis in a near future.

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