Fellowship of the Ring is a great score.

[Henry B 50]

But I don't think as much of The Two Towers and Return of the King. The tone gets campier, less expansive and less fantastical. There's nothing in those scores like the beginning of "The Ring Goes South." Opposing thoughts? Return of the King seems to be the favorite around here.

[standbyfax 0]

Fellowship is easily my favorite score of the three because of its smaller more personal nature for the most part, but I still really enjoy the way Shore developed many of the themes throughout the entire series, with many of them getting grand payoffs by the end of Return of the King.

[King Mark 3,631]

The Complete Recordings is on my ipod.

I'll let you know when I make it past the first 45 minutes

[Henry B 50]

Heh, I've just been listening to the OST. The full score is way too much.

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

yes, I like FOTR the most of the 3 by far.

Burga - who thinks the CR is too much too

[Miguel Andrade 1,263]

I just can't connect to Shore's work on Lord of the Rings. I much more prefer his earlier work.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

I should give the first score another listen...I haven't in a while, but that's because it always just failed to hold my interest all the way through (talking about the OST). Definitely has some great highlights, though. I have the second OST too, and I remember liking that less.

Ray Barnsbury

[Neimoidian 14]

Fellowship is easily my favorite score of the three because of its smaller more personal nature for the most part, but I still really enjoy the way Shore developed many of the themes throughout the entire series, with many of them getting grand payoffs by the end of Return of the King.

I think it exactly expresses my thought. Though, when it comes to regular album releases I think "RotK" has better album than "FotR".

[Richard Penna 3,683]

Someone please release a new Williams score - it seems this place will do just about anything... even bash LotR

And I will be very disappointed if any of you guys post in the inevitable 'Rotk release date announced' thread...

[oierem 152]

Heh, I've just been listening to the OST. The full score is way too much.

That's what I think. I have to admit that Shore did a fantastic job creating a especific sound/theme for each Middle Earth culture. He worked really hard. But if I had to describe his whole score, I'd say it is boring. It works well in the movie, but as a stand-alone listening, is dull, long and boring.

JW seems to have fun writing music -you can "hear" it. Shore did a long and hard job and the result is something overly long and plain. No real excitement, no real emotion, no real romance... Except for the themes (some of which I love), all the tempi are slow.

Ultimately, the score and the movies have the same problem. I love the movies, but all the crew was so inmerse in the process, it ended up being overly long and serious.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

It's not bad.

[Luke Skywalker 1,794]

I prefer ROTK. It represent the trilogy as it has all the themes

Like ROTJ for the OT.

[King Mark 3,631]

Heh, I've just been listening to the OST. The full score is way too much.

That's what I think. I have to admit that Shore did a fantastic job creating a especific sound/theme for each Middle Earth culture. He worked really hard. But if I had to describe his whole score, I'd say it is boring. It works well in the movie, but as a stand-alone listening, is dull, long and boring.

JW seems to have fun writing music -you can "hear" it. Shore did a long and hard job and the result is something overly long and plain. No real excitement, no real emotion, no real romance... Except for the themes (some of which I love), all the tempi are slow.

Ultimately, the score and the movies have the same problem. I love the movies, but all the crew was so inmerse in the process, it ended up being overly long and serious.

I kind of agree with that.That's why I had a problem with people placing LotR as the greatest film scores of all time in that other thread.

k.M.

[Hlao-roo 389]

Heh, I've just been listening to the OST. The full score is way too much.

That's what I think. I have to admit that Shore did a fantastic job creating a especific sound/theme for each Middle Earth culture. He worked really hard. But if I had to describe his whole score, I'd say it is boring. It works well in the movie, but as a stand-alone listening, is dull, long and boring.

JW seems to have fun writing music -you can "hear" it. Shore did a long and hard job and the result is something overly long and plain. No real excitement, no real emotion, no real romance... Except for the themes (some of which I love), all the tempi are slow.

Ultimately, the score and the movies have the same problem. I love the movies, but all the crew was so inmerse in the process, it ended up being overly long and serious.

I kind of agree with that.That's why I had a problem with people placing LotR as the greatest film scores of all time in that other thread.

k.M.

Wrong, you had a problem with people placing LoTR as the greatest film scores of all time because you're a fundamentalist who thinks Williams is a god who can do no wrong, and all others write music for retards.

[King Mark 3,631]

That's not true

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

I have always maintained that FoTR is the best of the 3.

That's not true

Says Mark as he prays at his altar to Williams.

[David Coscina 3]

I was liked FOTR the best of the 3 as well although I prefer the expanded Two Towers to the expanded FOTR. Some really nice writing for low winds in the second one for the Ents. Coolness.

[Quintus 5,399]

I had a problem with people placing LotR as the greatest film scores of all time in that other thread.

k.M.

Wrong, you had a problem with people placing LoTR as the greatest film scores of all time because you're a fundamentalist who thinks Williams is a god who can do no wrong, and all others write music for retards.

Oof! Response of the month right there! I tend to avoid 'l33t' speak, but there is only one word which can sum this situation up and that word is...'Owned'.

Fotr is the greatest score ever btw. Actually I don't believe that anymore, thesedays I'd say that ESB is on par with it, even quite feasibly a damn lot better.

[publicist 4,643]

If scale alone is a deciding factor, you can't ignore the musical contribution to the RING-trilogy, but as pure music, there's certainly better executed music in smaller doses.

BUT

after frequently listening to the complete score on my seemingly limitless iPod, i've found very beautiful musical moments, but they are often hidden in the thick chords announcing 'something's going to happen' for minutes. The moment when the Fellowship leaves Rivendell and Shore's score swells with it is really one of the most sublime film/score moments i know. The villain music is his weak point. The Mordor/Isengard music is repeated so often in a nearly identical setting that one really must have a lot of patience to sit through the endless hammering.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The Mordor/Isengard music is repeated so often in a nearly identical setting that one really must have a lot of patience to sit through the endless hammering.

Yes, this is done deliberatly. While all the other material is slowly developping, his Uruk material stays the same, since there is no development of these characters.

[Quintus 5,399]

If scale alone is a deciding factor, you can't ignore the musical contribution to the RING-trilogy, but as pure music, there's certainly better executed music in smaller doses.

BUT

after frequently listening to the complete score on my seemingly limitless iPod, i've found very beautiful musical moments, but they are often hidden in the thick chords announcing 'something's going to happen' for minutes. The moment when the Fellowship leaves Rivendell and Shore's score swells with it is really one of the most sublime film/score moments i know. The villain music is his weak point. The Mordor/Isengard music is repeated so often in a nearly identical setting that one really must have a lot of patience to sit through the endless hammering.

Very true. Especially with regards to the Mordor/Isengard stuff. Its times like that when Peter Jackson really could have used John Williiams, when he was in his Imperial March The Challenge mode.

Disagree with Steef, such an approach is beyond both Shore and the audience. The Uruk Hai theme is a simplistic theme written purely for identification purposes and nothing more. Development is lacking because it was never needed, as far as audience response was concerned.

Williams played around with the Imperial March orchestrations for no reason other than the fact that it entertained him.

[Luke Skywalker 1,794]

The Mordor/Isengard music is repeated so often in a nearly identical setting that one really must have a lot of patience to sit through the endless hammering.

Yes, this is done deliberatly. While all the other material is slowly developping, his Uruk material stays the same, since there is no development of these characters.

lame excuse anyway...

We see the evolution (or revelation) of saruman from white council master to evil Mordor minion. Isnt this enough?

And BTW the mordor theme gets an evolution (reorchestration), IMO very good, in ROTK.

And the elves do not evolve either...they have been the same for centuries...

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

We see the evolution (or revelation) of saruman from white council master to evil Mordor minion.

Yes, but that theme does appear when Saruman is still supposedly good. (actually, that's maybe the first 5 seconds he's in the film)

And BTW the mordor theme gets an evolution (reorchestration), IMO very good, in ROTK.

Yes in and TTT the Uruk Theme slowly ingraciates itself into other music and themes, infecting them like a virus. Nice touch.

And the elves do not evolve either...they have been the same for centuries...

They don't, but they do have to make a descision. The Rivendell theme is resolved in ROTK.

[Luke Skywalker 1,794]

meh, you have xcuses for everything

[Quintus 5,399]

Wouldn't want to upset the Grand Master now would we?

Weak.

[indy4 155]

IMO, the scores get better as each movie continues. These are what, IMO, are the best of the best cues from each score (meaning I gave them 5 stars on iTunes):

Fellowship:

Concerning Hobbits

The Breaking of the Fellowship.

TT:

The Uruk-Hai

Helm's Deep

Forth Eorlingas.

ROTK:

Hope and Memory

Minas Tirith

The White Tree

The Fields of Pelennor

The Black Gate Opens

Into the West

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Fellowship:

Concerning Hobbits

The Breaking of the Fellowship.

Add:

The Prophecy, The Treason of Isengard, Flight To The Ford, A Journey In The Dark and The Bridge of Khazad Dum

TT:

The Uruk-Hai

Helm's Deep

Forth Eorlingas.

Add:

Foundations of Stone, The Black Gate is Closed, Evenstar, Isengard Unleashed, Samwise The Brave and Gollum's Song.

ROTK:

Hope and Memory

Minas Tirith

The White Tree

The Fields of Pelennor

The Black Gate Opens

Into the West

Add:

Anduril, Shelob's Lair, The End Of All Things and The Grey Havens

[Red 75]

"The Breaking of the Fellowship" is the only piece of music that has ever made me cry. 'Course, that was right after my dog died . . .

[Quintus 5,399]

Fellowship:

Concerning Hobbits

The Breaking of the Fellowship.

Add:

The Prophecy, The Treason of Isengard, Flight To The Ford, A Journey In The Dark and The Bridge of Khazad Dum

TT:

The Uruk-Hai

Helm's Deep

Forth Eorlingas.

Add:

Foundations of Stone, The Black Gate is Closed, Evenstar, Isengard Unleashed, Samwise The Brave and Gollum's Song.

ROTK:

Hope and Memory

Minas Tirith

The White Tree

The Fields of Pelennor

The Black Gate Opens

Into the West

Add:

Anduril, Shelob's Lair, The End Of All Things and The Grey Havens

Keep talking about lotr Steef, because I'm finding you most agreeable, for a change

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I would not be effective if I was always agreeable. I don't cater to the masses!

[John Crichton 4]

Heh, I've just been listening to the OST. The full score is way too much.

There's a decent amount of fluff to wade through for sure, but there are also some really good unreleased highlights.

For a long time FotR was my favorite, but the last time I watched the movies I was really struck by RotK's score and thought it might be creeping up. I'm waiting for the final complete release to make a final judgement. And I think my rather low opinion of TTT is well known by now. Overall the scores fall in the good to really good but not quite great category for me, I'd have a hard time justifying their inclusion in a greatest ever shortlist.

[gkgyver 1,645]

Disagree with Steef, such an approach is beyond both Shore and the audience. The Uruk Hai theme is a simplistic theme written purely for identification purposes and nothing more. Development is lacking because it was never needed, as far as audience response was concerned.

Such an approach is beyond Shore? There are so damn many subtleties in these scores that it's *very* hard to believe Shore did not think of anything when writing the Isengard material. Hard to the point og absurdity actually.

The metallic 5/4 meter with the brass was supposed to be relentless and straightforward, to match the ideas of Saruman's machinistic thinking, and have the ability to overpower other thematic music with its force.

Those intentions are well covered in audio commentaries, featurettes, and also in the CR booklets, so it's quite bold to say Howard Shore wrote those parts because he couldn't, or didn't want to, come up with some variations.

With so many thematic connections and developments, it's very nice to have a few constant elements in the score anyway.

Each of the dozens of themes has a specific purpose, used intentionally. So make such a huge concept reality requires very special abilities, and criticising one theme because it's intentionally simplistic has to appear like unreasonable nitpicking.

LotR isn't your everyday score, where the composer writes two, three, maybe four themes that are used when they seem to sound nice, its intentions are simply on a higher niveau, which is not accessible to anyone.

Do you have an excuse for Williams using Leia's Theme for Ben's death?

May sound snobbish, but it seems like many at JWfan have no problem with snobbism anyway.

Compared to the absurdity of some people trying to tie Star Wars to Empire Strikes Back 30 years later, this is really nothing.

[Quintus 5,399]

Disagree with Steef, such an approach is beyond both Shore and the audience. The Uruk Hai theme is a simplistic theme written purely for identification purposes and nothing more. Development is lacking because it was never needed, as far as audience response was concerned.

Such an approach is beyond Shore? There are so damn many subtleties in these scores that it's *very* hard to believe Shore did not think of anything when writing the Isengard material. Hard to the point og absurdity actually.

Fair point. But I think we have a misunderstanding, to a degree. "Beyond" was a poorly chosen definition. What I meant by it though was that Shore wasn't overly concerned with any sort of development of the evil themes; fundamentally they are just motifs to be called upon when needed. They don't tell their own stories. The orchestration changes a little here and there, but to a catered for audience its just evil music. Development of Saurons theme and the like was beyond his concern. He knew the real challenge lied with the protagonists and besides; that deadline was drawing ever closer with each day.

[Luke Skywalker 1,794]

Keep talking about lotr Steef, because I'm finding you most agreeable, for a change

Come on, you just want to see his signature as many times as possible

[Quintus 5,399]

Okay you got me! I forgot just how beautiful Steef's mothers breasts were to be honest. Though they are even more impressive uncloaked, if I remember rightly.

[Luke Skywalker 1,794]

Okay you got me! I forgot just how beautiful Steef's mothers breasts were to be honest. Though they are even more impressive uncloaked, if I remember rightly.

that was...uncalled for?

[Quintus 5,399]

Lol, hopefully Steef will understand that I jest. I'm willing to take my chances.

In return I give him free rein to say whatever he likes about my own whore of a mother:

[King Mark 3,631]

Anyways,no matter how some people here orgasm over small bits in the FotR score(like The Breaking of the Fellowship,The Ring Goes South),it doesn't change the fact that 90% of the underscore is boring as hell.

K.M.

[Quintus 5,399]

Don't you ever get tired of saying that? Clearly not.

[gkgyver 1,645]

Anyways,no matter how some people here orgasm over small bits in the FotR score(like The Breaking of the Fellowship,The Ring Goes South),it doesn't change the fact that 90% of the underscore is boring as hell.

I could tell you now that I find far more than 50 percent of any given Star Wars score dull as hell.

[Red 75]

I find the entire score to be very interesting.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Anyways,no matter how some people here orgasm over small bits in the FotR score(like The Breaking of the Fellowship,The Ring Goes South),it doesn't change the fact that 90% of the underscore is boring as hell.

K.M.

Actually there's a though-line in these scores that I found lacking in Williams' prequel scores, which have a few highlights, but a lot of meandering underscore that goes no were and doesn't really signify anything.

[gkgyver 1,645]

it doesn't change the fact that 90% of the underscore is boring as hell.

That's not possible because LotR has no insignificant "underscore".

And I wouldn't exactly call Breaking Of The Fellowship and The Ring Goes South "small bits". It's like saying, no matter how some people here orgasm over small bits like Anakin's Betrayal or Anakin Vs. Obi-Wan, it doesn't change the fact that 90 % of the underscore is boring as hell.

Which in this case is even true.

[Red 75]

Hey I liked ROTS jerk head!

[Richard Penna 3,683]

Anyways,no matter how some people here orgasm over small bits in the FotR score(like The Breaking of the Fellowship,The Ring Goes South),it doesn't change the fact that 90% of the underscore is boring as hell.

K.M.

Everyone's entitled to their opinion. And I think yours is tragically misguided.

[indy4 155]

it doesn't change the fact that 90% of the underscore is boring as hell.

That's not possible because LotR has no insignificant "underscore".

And I wouldn't exactly call Breaking Of The Fellowship and The Ring Goes South "small bits". It's like saying, no matter how some people here orgasm over small bits like Anakin's Betrayal or Anakin Vs. Obi-Wan, it doesn't change the fact that 90 % of the underscore is boring as hell.

Which in this case is even true.

Don't start bashing RotS just because it's a popular score, and you think it will somehow do damage to the person you're arguing with. It's a fantastic score, and 99% is great!

Any the LOTR trilogy is another great score. 99% of that is great, too.

So why don't you both shut up?

[Jeshopk 8]

Well, let's at least admit the abundance of whole notes in LOTR. While it may not detract for many, it makes it a littler stale to these ears.

[Delorean90 42]

I follow that. That may also have been part of what took me a little longer to get used to. My way of saying it has been (at least in the case of action music) that it's less "fluid" than, say, JW's action cues. Again, I think it has to do with that less contemporary feel he was going for.

[Joe Brausam 214]

it doesn't change the fact that 90% of the underscore is boring as hell.

That's not possible because LotR has no insignificant "underscore".

And I wouldn't exactly call Breaking Of The Fellowship and The Ring Goes South "small bits". It's like saying, no matter how some people here orgasm over small bits like Anakin's Betrayal or Anakin Vs. Obi-Wan, it doesn't change the fact that 90 % of the underscore is boring as hell.

Which in this case is even true.

Don't start bashing RotS just because it's a popular score, and you think it will somehow do damage to the person you're arguing with. It's a fantastic score, and 99% is great!

Any the LOTR trilogy is another great score. 99% of that is great, too.

So why don't you both shut up?

No it's true...most of the underscore in ROTS is pretty boring. There are a few great moments in the score, but you can't honestly tell me that you ENJOY listening to 2 minutes of men groaning in Palpatine's Teachings and such other moments.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

Don't start bashing RotS just because it's a popular score,

Just because it's the worst selling Star Wars score released to date, does not make it popular.