Composing Contest no.4!

[Datameister 2,037]

Very, very interesting stuff, guys. Thank you for answering my question. I'd really be interested in hearing more (off-topic) descriptions from others, too!

[AI 0]

The AI method -

Find the seed, that core idea which is right. Map it out, get it nice and tight.

Wait until late at night, then down a few bottles of cheap wine.

Expand on the idea, romanticise it, make it breath.

Revise it later when you have sobered up.

Rinse and repeat, if needed.

[Datameister 2,037]

So do you guys do a lot of the composition at the piano, or simply by listening to the thoughts in your head? I do a combo of the two, with most of the best ideas coming from the latter. The piano gives me a way of experimenting and toying with the ideas in a very real-world way.

[Marcus 390]

So do you guys do a lot of the composition at the piano, or simply by listening to the thoughts in your head? I do a combo of the two, with most of the best ideas coming from the latter. The piano gives me a way of experimenting and toying with the ideas in a very real-world way.

I do most of my work simply at my desk with a pen and a sheet of paper. But I find great company in a piano (although I'm really not a very good pianist!), and it can be comforting to let my ideas breathe ouside the confinement of my mind at times, it feels refreshing.

I trained myself early on not to rely on a piano to compose, but the older I get, the more I simply enjoy working at the piano.

But I never "experiment" per se; I always know very precisely what I'm lookng for, so it's more about having the thrill of an actual acoustic space for my ideas.

It really doesn't matter, as long as you get the work done in the end.

We all have our individual preferences, and I think the important thing, is to find a comfortable method that is sustainable, and yields results.

[MSM 126]

So do you guys do a lot of the composition at the piano, or simply by listening to the thoughts in your head? I do a combo of the two, with most of the best ideas coming from the latter. The piano gives me a way of experimenting and toying with the ideas in a very real-world way.

For me also it's a mixed process of ideas and experiments, making use of piano or computer.

[AI 0]

The AI method:

Bang head against piano in frustration.

Bang head again, and wonder, why do I do this, didn't Beethoven write this story already?

Tear up manuscript, toss in bin, and vow never to have anything to do with that vixen again.

[Datameister 2,037]

That sounds awful familiar...

[AI 0]

Spin out, Trash out.

Such is the way of the AI.

[Bowie 45]

How do we submit our file?

[Marcus 390]

So, for the sake of presenting my efforts, I've dabbled with Finale, in order to get a sonic representation, in case I'll be unable to get a good pianist to record tomorrow.

I can't tell you what a strange and discouraging thing Finale is! The timbres are simply disgusting (in the end I had to go with mutiple pianos, which was the most discreet and unassuming timbre of the lot), and it's so tedious and time-consuming! I will never, NEVER abandon pen&paper!

May I post scanned pages of manuscript? How do I set about creating a link?

(EDIT: Nevermind, I think I understand how to attach a link.

Hopefully the rehearsal pianist for my opera has time during lunch break tomorrow. We're recording the entire piece, so there should be plenty of proper equipment there, it's just a matter of finding time.)

[Datameister 2,037]

May I post scanned pages of manuscript? How do I set about creating a link?

Please do! I don't know if our adjudicator will pay any attention to them, but I know I will. Once you've got the pages scanned, they should be in JPEG format. What you can do is upload them to another website--I suggest imageshack.us. There's a browse button that lets you find each file on your hard drive; then press Host It. It'll give you forum thumbnail links that you can copy and paste here.

Thank you for putting together the recording or Finale performance, too. In a way, it's kind of reassuring to hear how discouraged you are by Finale's sounds, actually, if that makes any sense whatsoever. It reminds me how inaccurate the sounds are and reminds me not to put too much stock in them.

[Marcus 390]

May I post scanned pages of manuscript? How do I set about creating a link?

Please do! I don't know if our adjudicator will pay any attention to them, but I know I will. Once you've got the pages scanned, they should be in JPEG format. What you can do is upload them to another website--I suggest imageshack.us. There's a browse button that lets you find each file on your hard drive; then press Host It. It'll give you forum thumbnail links that you can copy and paste here.

Thank you for putting together the recording or Finale performance, too. In a way, it's kind of reassuring to hear how discouraged you are by Finale's sounds, actually, if that makes any sense whatsoever. It reminds me how inaccurate the sounds are and reminds me not to put too much stock in them.

Thanks for all your help!

I'll try my best with attachments and uploads tomorrow, then! And with a little luck, I can post a piano rendition too.

[Datameister 2,037]

No problem. Looking forward to hearing/seeing it!

[indy4 155]

I noticed this is called Composing Contest n.4. What were 1, 2, and 3?

[Bowie 45]

Because I have to go to bed very soon, and don't know how else to upload it; my entry:

http://www.acidplanet.com/artist.asp?PID=1042899&T=364 (Click on the 'Play song' link.)

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

I noticed this is called Composing Contest n.4. What were 1, 2, and 3?

The last one was done over three years ago (click). I think you might be able to find the others with the Search function.

[David Vincent 8]

I have finished mine !

Unfortunately, I can't send my files to Ming San as his PM box is full so here is my composition :

- MIDI file : http://musicby.jw-music.net/crystal.mid

- MP3 file : http://musicby.jw-music.net/crystal.mp3

[MSM 126]

It is time!

All composers please post their compositions in this thread. I will turn this thread into a poll where can be voted. In order to give everybody a chance to submit their files:

on Sunday October 28 6:00 PM GMT the poll will be opened for voting.

Post them!

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The following contributors have already submitted their composition:

- Jeshopk

- Bowie

- David Vincent

The following people have shown interest but haven't submitted yet:

- Datameister

- Henry Buck

- Gullwingdoors

- AI

- Marcus

- Delorean90

- MSM

[David Vincent 8]

Hi Ming San !

Sorry, but I can't answer your PM, I have an error message telling me your box is full.

Please, PM me your email address !

I think I can help you

[Datameister 2,037]

Great stuff, guys! Bowie, I'm in awe of your love theme. It's not quite as "memorable" to me as I'd hoped, at least not yet, but it's absolutely beautiful and I'm in awe of the Raiders' March references. Fantastic work. Would you mind sharing your process like Marcus and MSM did? Anyway, I'm looking forward to hearing all the other entries!

I may not have anything to submit at all--if I do have something, it'll be short, I think. MSM, is October 28th at 6 pm GMT the deadline for entering, then? Or may we submit after the poll is open, as stupid as that would be?

[MSM 126]

Great stuff, guys! Bowie, I'm in awe of your love theme. It's not quite as "memorable" to me as I'd hoped, at least not yet, but it's absolutely beautiful and I'm in awe of the Raiders' March references. Fantastic work. Would you mind sharing your process like Marcus and MSM did? Anyway, I'm looking forward to hearing all the other entries!

I may not have anything to submit at all--if I do have something, it'll be short, I think. MSM, is October 28th at 6 pm GMT the deadline for entering, then? Or may we submit after the poll is open, as stupid as that would be?

Actually it's the deadline for joining the poll. The poll will open tomorrow 6 pm GMT, after that time no more entries can be submitted (also because once a poll has started, no more poll options can be added). Why do you not just submit what you can come up with till that time? I'd love to hear it!

[Datameister 2,037]

Actually it's the deadline for joining the poll. The poll will open tomorrow 6 pm GMT, after that time no more entries can be submitted (also because once a poll has started, no more poll options can be added). Why do you not just submit what you can come up with till that time? I'd love to hear it!

Wow, I'm a noob...I totally forgot that you can't add poll options after the poll is created. Good job, me! Anyway, I've just come back from a composing session at a crappy piano. Don't have much written down, but I'm hoping to spend a lot of time Finaleizing it so I can submit at least a little bit of it tomorrow, if not all of it. I think I got about two minutes or so sketched out, partly on paper and partly mentally...

[Marcus 390]

All right!

So I just came back from a long, long day of opera rehearsals and the first complete run through (which went very well, thankfully), and I've scanned my sketches, but unfortunately, there was simply no time for my pianist to record my two contributions.

But here they are, in pdf and manuscript (I hope this works...)

OOPS! Apparently the file size is to big!

Now what?

Is there anybody I could email this to, who'd be a little more computer savvy than I am?

Oh dear...

I'm such a klutz...

[Jeshopk 8]

All right!

So I just came back from a long, long day of opera rehearsals and the first complete run through (which went very well, thankfully), and I've scanned my sketches, but unfortunately, there was simply no time for my pianist to record my two contributions.

But here they are, in pdf and manuscript (I hope this works...)

OOPS! Apparently the file size is to big!

Now what?

Is there anybody I could email this to, who'd be a little more computer savvy than I am?

Oh dear...

I'm such a klutz...

Marcus, you put can it up on my website if you want. But how are people going to hear it? I can't transcribe it into MIDI today. I will send you an email with instructions. Just don't pass it around

[Marcus 390]

OK, Here we go again!

Thanks to Jesse Hopkins, I think I can finally offer at least the manuscript versions of my march for the Soviet villains, and also a couple of thematic ideas for the crystal skulls.

The march has two main themes, and a couple of significant motifs.

Pages 1-3 constitute ca. 2/3 of a fictitious concert arrangement. I've noted in the score exactly what the theme is, should anyone be impatient and wish to skip he introduction!

The first (main) theme is martial, and has a (hopefully) Russian flavor to it. It is followed by a secondary theme (on page 2) that is actually based on a variation of the Raiders' march (in minor), albeit with a distinctly "Red Army Choir" feel to it.

A trio that playfully dabbles with Shostakovich's "D-Eb-C-B" signature motto is strictly intended for the concert suite, and would be an inside joke, and not something that would feature in the score per se.

Page 4 contains music for the crystal skull.

First is a brief introduction that pays homage to the Ark theme, and also to some of the "South American Music" from Raiders. Then follows the main theme for the skulls, and also a final fanfare theme that would also be associated with the crystal skulls.

These are all just piano sketches, jotted down fairly quickly, but I think they present the raw material, the themes and motifs that would be expanded upon.

So here goes: (please work, please work, please work...)

http://www.composerarts.com/Page1.pdf

http://www.composerarts.com/Page2.pdf

http://www.composerarts.com/Page3.pdf

http://www.composerarts.com/Page4.pdf

And to my colleagues in this thread: Good Job!

[Jeshopk 8]

If music were just raw notes, this board never would have existed.

On a more serious note, how do you guys compose so (relatively) quickly? I can rarely put out more than twenty or thirty seconds in a day, and that's if I'm REALLY lucky. What is your process like? What is your mental state like? In short, how do you compose? I'm curious how it goes for you guys.

Hi Data,

It all depends on Tempo and complexity! I could sketch out a melody line and harmony in a short time, but to go through with all the orchestration is the feat. You just gotta go for it. Writing something in a sequencer for Orchestra, I can do 1 to 2 minutes a day. On an extremely tight deadline, I pulled off 6 minutes of orchestral music every day for 3 days in a row, but I almost killed myself due to exhaustion and I went back later to make it more detailed. I enter it one note at a time. No playing it in on the keyboard in real time. Now, of course since it is written in a sequencer, to publish this for live orchestra, i'd like to go back and respell the harmonies correctly - but then again the Batman score manuscript was all spelled very wrong and that recording sounds great. I just would rather save myself the embarrassment if I ever got something performed, and bother to spell the harmonies right. That to me is the most tedious when conceiving complex music in a notation application.

[Marcus 390]

Thank you so much for all your help, Jesse Hopkins!!

[Jeshopk 8]

Thank you so much for all your help, Jesse Hopkins!!

No problem! Can you try downloading page4 from the link? It said 'file damaged' for me. Maybe you should upload that one again. Just make sure to remove the space.

[Bowie 45]

Great stuff, guys! Bowie, I'm in awe of your love theme. It's not quite as "memorable" to me as I'd hoped, at least not yet, but it's absolutely beautiful and I'm in awe of the Raiders' March references. Fantastic work. Would you mind sharing your process like Marcus and MSM did?

Hey Datameister

Thanks for your comment!

*WARNING: Rambling composer talk below*

To be honest, I had struggled immensely with the 'theme'. I had originally come up with a couple of very simple, slow-paced Williams-esque catchy thematic ideas, but then I realised that they were just generic 'love themes' that had nothing to do with Indiana Jones. As you had pointed out, "we should aim not so much to emulate Williams as to produce a sincere sound that reflects what we think the movie will be like."

So I decided to create a melody that had a certain quality of uncertainty, that seemed to be constantly referring to something... something in the past, but never quite forming its own identity: I thought this best reflected, what I presume to be explored in The Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, the awkward history between Indiana and Marion. This melody is the best melody I could come up with that merges 'Raiders March' with 'Marion's Theme' with a reminiscent character. (I suppose it's a bit misleading calling it a "theme," because although it would get a few iterations in the film, I didn't feel it needed to be made too leitmotivic because I suspected Marion wouldn't figure too much into the plot.)

It's a bit stifled and dusty at the beginning, but during the build-up later when the horn takes the melody and then the violins do that sweeping gesture, I tried to adjust the harmonies and tempi etc so that it becomes a bit more lively, as though their amusing, quarrelling interplay is being rekindled and Marion's Theme from Raiders is suggested a bit more clearly. It was just a matter of deciding how many times the melody should be repeated and then orchestrating each iteration to best colour the above. I came up with an introduction and decided that this would basically be the traditional 'B-theme,' and so I mechanically slotted this in later to re-establish it .

(I'm not going to point out anything else, specifically or in general, because I should hope the references etc speak for themselves, as it is up to the voters to appreciate the music without being told what means what, and which bars develop what, I think. )

[Datameister 2,037]

To be honest, I had struggled immensely with the 'theme'. I had originally come up with a couple of very simple, slow-paced Williams-esque catchy thematic ideas, but then I realised that they were just generic 'love themes' that had nothing to do with Indiana Jones. As you had pointed out, "we should aim not so much to emulate Williams as to produce a sincere sound that reflects what we think the movie will be like."

So I decided to create a melody that had a certain quality of uncertainty, that seemed to be constantly referring to something... something in the past, but never quite forming its own identity: I thought this best reflected, what I presume to be explored in The Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, the awkward history between Indiana and Marion. This melody is the best melody I could come up with that merges 'Raiders March' with 'Marion's Theme' with a reminiscent character. (I suppose it's a bit misleading calling it a "theme," because although it would get a few iterations in the film, I didn't feel it needed to be made too leitmotivic because I suspected Marion wouldn't figure too much into the plot.)

It's a bit stifled and dusty at the beginning, but during the build-up later when the horn takes the melody and then the violins do that sweeping gesture, I tried to adjust the harmonies and tempi etc so that it becomes a bit more lively, as though their amusing, quarrelling interplay is being rekindled and Marion's Theme from Raiders is suggested a bit more clearly. It was just a matter of deciding how many times the melody should be repeated and then orchestrating each iteration to best colour the above. I came up with an introduction and decided that this would basically be the traditional 'B-theme,' and so I mechanically slotted this in later to re-establish it.

(I'm not going to point out anything else, specifically or in general, because I should hope the references etc speak for themselves, as it is up to the voters to appreciate the music without being told what means what, and which bars develop what, I think.)

That made perfect sense, and that's exactly what the composition conveyed to me. Fine work.

- Datameister, whose composition is still mostly lounging around on the couch in his brain

[Datameister 2,037]

Sorry, guys, but I won't be able to enter in this. I just don't have enough written in any tangible form. Composition is frustrating for me...

[indy4 155]

I have finished mine !

Unfortunately, I can't send my files to Ming San as his PM box is full so here is my composition :

- MIDI file : http://musicby.jw-music.net/crystal.mid

- MP3 file : http://musicby.jw-music.net/crystal.mp3

That was really great!!

[MSM 126]

Here is my composition, it's just MIDI without any dynamics.

It should underscore some action-comedy scene in which Indy gets to know his son, who drives on his motorcycle.

"There Will Be Adventure!" http://dev.ytec.nl/ming/There%20Will%20Be%...20M.S.%20Ma.mp3

A second (slightly different) mp3 and a (larger) WAV file can be downloaded at http://dev.ytec.nl/ming (second and third file).

Thanks to David Vincent and Datameister for creating the mp3's!

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The poll has been opened! Contributors cannot vote.

[Karovd 0]

Even though I'm not much of a presence on these boards, I do frequently visit here and - guess that makes me a lurker

Anywho, I've just listened to these pieces and quite enjoyed them, and I saw some of you have others do mp3s out of the midis for you - I'd like to do the same for any who'd like me to.

here's an example of how it'd sound:

http://www.box.net/shared/da9vv0tub9

it's not fooling anyone, but it's better than that Microsoft GS Synth.

[Marcus 390]

Even though I'm not much of a presence on these boards, I do frequently visit here and - guess that makes me a lurker

Anywho, I've just listened to these pieces and quite enjoyed them, and I saw some of you have others do mp3s out of the midis for you - I'd like to do the same for any who'd like me to.

here's an example of how it'd sound:

http://www.box.net/shared/da9vv0tub9

it's not fooling anyone, but it's better than that Microsoft GS Synth.

Greetings, Karovd!

Thank you for your generous offer!

I should be much obliged to see my sketches made into midi files (just a simple piano rendition), as I fear they are of little help or enjoment to most in their present state.

After struggling with Finale for a few hours a couple of days ago, I'm afraid I've given up.

(Anything beyond pen and paper defeats me at the first sign of friction.)

Very best and most grateful regards,

Marcus