Composing contest no. 4!

[MSM 126]

Welcome at the 4th JWFan composing competition! The assignment of this edition of the competition was simple, but could be interpreted in various ways:

Compose a theme for the new movie Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull!

Five JWFans entered the competition and submitted compositions. They are listed below (click on the links to open the files). Please vote for the theme you would like to hear best in the new Indy movie!

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1) Jeshopk - "Rattlesnake Jake Theme"

http://www.rattlesnakejake.com/rattlesnake_jake_theme.mp3

Referring Page:

http://www.rattlesnakejake.com/news.htm

Composer's comments: Disclaimer: He's a Cowboy, so it'd probably fail for Indiana Jones himself.

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2) Bowie - "An Excavated Affair (Love Theme)"

http://www.acidplanet.com/artist.asp?PID=1042899&T=364

(Click on the 'Play song' link.)

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3) David Vincent - "Crystal Skull Theme"

- MIDI file :

http://musicby.jw-music.net/crystal.mid

- MP3 file :

http://musicby.jw-music.net/crystal.mp3

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4) Marcus - "Russian March (Sketches)"

http://jwfan.com/forums/index.php?s=&s...st&p=377755

Composer's comments: Thanks to Jesse Hopkins, I think I can finally offer at least the manuscript versions of my march for the Soviet villains, and also a couple of thematic ideas for the crystal skulls.

The march has two main themes, and a couple of significant motifs.

Pages 1-3 constitute ca. 2/3 of a fictitious concert arrangement. I've noted in the score exactly what the theme is, should anyone be impatient and wish to skip he introduction!

The first (main) theme is martial, and has a (hopefully) Russian flavor to it. It is followed by a secondary theme (on page 2) that is actually based on a variation of the Raiders' march (in minor), albeit with a distinctly "Red Army Choir" feel to it.

A trio that playfully dabbles with Shostakovich's "D-Eb-C-B" signature motto is strictly intended for the concert suite, and would be an inside joke, and not something that would feature in the score per se.

Page 4 contains music for the crystal skull.

First is a brief introduction that pays homage to the Ark theme, and also to some of the "South American Music" from Raiders. Then follows the main theme for the skulls, and also a final fanfare theme that would also be associated with the crystal skulls.

These are all just piano sketches, jotted down fairly quickly, but I think they present the raw material, the themes and motifs that would be expanded upon.

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5) MSM - "There Will Be Adventure!"

http://dev.ytec.nl/ming/There%20Will%20Be%...20M.S.%20Ma.mp3

A second (slightly different) mp3 and a (larger) WAV file can be downloaded at

http://dev.ytec.nl/ming

(second and third file).

Composer's comments: "There Will Be Adventure!" is an up-tempo action cue in a Rondo-like form, with the main theme (hopefully) expressing the energy and fun of an Indiana Jones movie. I wrote the piece with the character of Indy's son in mind, and the music could underscore an action-comedy scene in which Indy for the first time meets his son, who drives around on his motorcycle.

Thanks to David Vincent and Datameister for creating the mp3's!

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Thanks to my collegues for all the nice contributions! Voting is now possible. Note: Contributors cannot vote.

For more information on this composing contest, see the related thread: http://jwfan.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=13884

Composers who want to change something in the above information please let me know.

[Henry B 50]

I'm leaning toward Bowie's, but I haven't heard Marcus's. An audio representation really would be nice. Also, the links to the PDFs are broken.

[MSM 126]

I'm leaning toward Bowie's, but I haven't heard Marcus's. An audio representation really would be nice. Also, the links to the PDFs are broken.

I don't understand why:s I pasted the link to the original post.

[indy4 155]

I'm not voting, because I can't hear all of them (either they won't play on my computer, or they're not in an audio format). The ones I have heard are really great, though!

[Joe Brausam 214]

After giving Marcus' a play-through on piano I've decided to vote for his. I hope that everyone gices his a fair chance to, being that its at a disadvantage, not having an audio file.

[John Crichton 4]

Can someone find a way to get Marcus' to an audio file? For people like me who have a better chance of reading hyroglyphs than music sheets.

[Jacck 23]

The problem is, due to the varying types of media submitted, one really can't vote fairly. I mean, you really can't compare a sketch to an audio realization.

[Melvin Frohike 12]

I've wrote Marcus' sketches into Sibelius and made an audio file.

http://www.johannet.de/indy4.zip

It starts with the Soviet March, the skull themes come right after that.

I've changed two things. In my opinion, the tempo of the march was to high, so i slowed it down a bit. I also didn't know what part Marcus meant to be the coda, so i wrote a basic two bar ending for the march. I hope that's allright. I can change it to your version, if you tell me what part should be repeated.

Marcus got my Vote, but the other entries are all great!

[Henry B 50]

Thanks for providing some audio, Melvin.

Marcus gets my vote.

[Datameister 2,034]

Bah, I'm having real difficulty deciding between Marcus and Bowie. Fantastic entries, everyone, though!

[Jeshopk 8]

Bah, I'm having real difficulty deciding between Marcus and Bowie. Fantastic entries, everyone, though!

I voted for Marcus. I never should have entered my buffoonery. I never had time to write anything specifically for the contest. 8O Oh well, next time I'll go head to head with Marcus and write something new.

[Joni Wiljami 1,206]

(...)

[Marcus 390]

I've wrote Marcus' sketches into Sibelius and made an audio file.

http://www.johannet.de/indy4.zip

It starts with the Soviet March, the skull themes come right after that.

I've changed two things. In my opinion, the tempo of the march was to high, so i slowed it down a bit. I also didn't know what part Marcus meant to be the coda, so i wrote a basic two bar ending for the march. I hope that's allright. I can change it to your version, if you tell me what part should be repeated.

Marcus got my Vote, but the other entries are all great!

Thanks so much, Melvin!

The tempo is supposed to be quarter note equals 74, not eighth, which means that your tempo is just about right.

Bars 10-15 should read just like bars 22-27.

(A few of my naturals have been transformed into flats.)

Also, regarding the ending: The theme would repeat as 1st time, and a coda similar to the intro bars would lead to a Abmadd#11/C- Cmin cadence.

As far as the Skull Theme is concerned, the theme shold have B natural on the third beat both times. Then follows a Bb maj arpeggio that skips to Eb (not E).

And the chords in the third bar ("trumpets+high woodwinds") are identical (7#9 chords; C then Bb).

Forgive me for not providing a more legible manuscript.

And thank you!

Thank you so much!!

Best regards,

Marcus

[John Crichton 4]

I've wrote Marcus' sketches into Sibelius and made an audio file.

http://www.johannet.de/indy4.zip

Excellent, thank you. I shall ponder...

[Marcus 390]

Sorry, quarter note=74, not half note (for some reason I got the math backwards in my previous reply to the tempo issue, silly me).

Melvin Frohike's rendition has a fairly correct tempo.

[Red 75]

Has Marcus uploaded an mp3 yet?

For some reason I can't get the "audio sketches".

[Bowie 45]

Well it looks like Marcus is running away with this! Well done, mate! I agree it's a fantastic Williams-esque march, but not overly 'pastiched'. I would love to hear it orchestrated.

Could I hear a few comments and criticisms about my effort? I don't care about winning I just want feedback.

(I'm guessing you all heard the various nods to and quotes of the Raiders' March, but it wasn't strong enough as a whole.)

[Jeshopk 8]

Well it looks like Marcus is running away with this! Well done, mate! I agree it's a fantastic Williams-esque march, but not overly 'pastiched'. I would love to hear it orchestrated.

Could I hear a few comments and criticisms about my effort? I don't care about winning I just want feedback.

(I'm guessing you all heard the various nods to and quotes of the Raiders' March, but it wasn't strong enough as a whole.)

I'd like some feedback too. I'd like to know if you all think it's crap or just, like I thought, inappropriate for the subject.

[Datameister 2,034]

FYI, Bowie, I voted for yours, despite an enormous respect for Marcus' pieces. It was a very hard decision. I'll have to take a listen to yours again so I can give it some critique later, cool?

[Bowie 45]

I'd like some feedback too. I'd like to know if you all think it's crap or just, like I thought, inappropriate for the subject.

Hey Jeshopk... I didn't really want to contribute much to the discussion because as I said before I think it would be fairer if all the entries spoke for themselves (so to speak lol), and that we composers shouldn't be permitted to explain parts of the music, just like John Williams wouldn't. As such, besides the music itself, a lot quite likely rested on the title of the piece.

I personally was nervous about competing against your entry! It's pretty darn good, really. And it is rather suitable, I think, especially considering we don't know much about the plot or characters. But I got the impression you had already composed this prior to the competition, which I still am not sure is the case. So if I were to vote (although we're not supposed to), I would probably either ask about this, or vote for Marcus's (if not mine ).

Apart from that, I would have called it something like "Don't Call Me Junior!" suggesting that it was obviously MEANT for the competition, i.e., obviously it's some light-hearted theme perhaps depicting Indiana's relationship with his son (which seems likely, anyway, even from the barest of officially revealed information), and perhaps his son is trying to fill Indy's shoes, and this is his "Raiders' March," in a sense. (Which I guess is exactly what MSM's piece is... )

But yeah I hope people are giving your piece a chance. Now that I think about it, yours is the only piece that I can actually whistle more than a couple of bars from a while after hearing .

FYI, Bowie, I voted for yours, despite an enormous respect for Marcus' pieces. It was a very hard decision. I'll have to take a listen to yours again so I can give it some critique later, cool?

Double thanks, Datameister .

(I reckon we should hold another competition soon. This was most fun! I wonder what other on-the-horizon Williams scores we could possibly anticipate compositionally. Lincoln? That space thing by James Cameron? Or perhaps score an unscored scene from an existing movie that people thought missed the mark, also voted on...? )

[AI 0]

The AI has listened to all of them.

The AI, voted for which he thinks is the most heartfelt one.

The AI, (why do you keep calling yourself "The AI? isn't that a little pretentious?)

[Jeshopk 8]

I'd like some feedback too. I'd like to know if you all think it's crap or just, like I thought, inappropriate for the subject.

I personally was nervous about competing against your entry! It's pretty darn good, really. And it is rather suitable, I think, especially considering we don't know much about the plot or characters. But I got the impression you had already composed this prior to the competition, which I still am not sure is the case. So if I were to vote (although we're not supposed to), I would probably either ask about this, or vote for Marcus's (if not mine ).

Apart from that, I would have called it something like "Don't Call Me Junior!" suggesting that it was obviously MEANT for the competition, i.e., obviously it's some light-hearted theme perhaps depicting Indiana's relationship with his son (which seems likely, anyway, even from the barest of officially revealed information), and perhaps his son is trying to fill Indy's shoes, and this is his "Raiders' March," in a sense. (Which I guess is exactly what MSM's piece is... )

Thanks, Bowie!Yours was a rather interesting take on the history/future of Marion and Indy. I didn't want to 'cheat' by saying I wrote my entry for the competition. I wrote it months ago for a video game that is a Cowboy/Comedy version of Indiana Jones. I believe the 2nd contest was lacking in entries, so I submitted it saying, if it qualifies, you can put it in judging. Now that I think about it, it probably doesn't qualify.

I personally still hope, naively, that Indy will not have a son in this outing! So, hopefully "Don't Call Me Junior" will not come true. If I wrote something original, I would have focused on the Crystal Skull theme or perhaps a chase scene.

[Karovd 0]

Even though there's already an audio version of Marcus' themes, I thought I'd still post the one I made of his Russian March - also per request:

http://www.box.net/shared/khjjiycmgf

There's probably some mistakes here and there, but I hope it's not too distracting.

[Red 75]

The AI, (why do you keep calling yourself "The AI? isn't that a little pretentious?)

Very.

[indy4 155]

(I reckon we should hold another competition soon. This was most fun! I wonder what other on-the-horizon Williams scores we could possibly anticipate compositionally. Lincoln?

Interstellar would be more fun.I was finally able to hear all of them, and I voted for David Vincent's Crystal Skull Theme. Brilliant!

[Marcus 390]

I'm just wondering: Does this have to be a contest?

I think we could get more contributions if there was no voting, but simply constructive commenting and critiquing. The challenge was a lot of fun, but I'm not so sure a poll is ultimately very beneficial...

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

But it's fun!

Kudos to all, anyway.

[Bowie 45]

I'm just wondering: Does this have to be a contest?

I think we could get more contributions if there was no voting, but simply constructive commenting and critiquing. The challenge was a lot of fun, but I'm not so sure a poll is ultimately very beneficial...

To be honest, I'd rather both... I think the contest/deadline/voting aspect taps into general human nature of competitiveness, and serves the purpose of encouraging more entries to be attempted and/or submitted than if it was just some ongoing thread that didn't have a 'current/immediate' aura of "ooh there is a JWFan competition going on right now... and the deadline is fast approaching!" in which case it would probably soon fade away.

And JWFans seem to love polls, or at least, being able to quickly have their say and see how they compare to other fans in general, so it would probably be offputting to deny them this.

I also think that composers who don't win should feel compelled to try harder next time. The poll would give composers some tangible measure of their success and/or improvements per attempt.

Other than that, YES, constructive critiquing should be obviously encouraged.

An idea, though: maybe that every voter has to post at least one sentence that describes something they like/love about each entry (five or so sentences per competition is not much!). The votes themselves would be cast via PM, and there would be a separate congratulations thread once the voting period concludes..? Therefore no visible polling to sway voters etc.

[Marcus 390]

Well, let me offer some feedback, then.

First of all, I think it's really wonderful to see how we all respond creatively to a challenge that is something of a musical wet dream (at least for me).

These efforts are all very different, yet they show how we all have been influenced by a similar tradition (or many), and more specifically, how we've been influenced by John Williams.

Also, what's interesting, is how differently each contribution reveals that, which is to say, maybe, how differently each creative mind responds to not only a challenge, but an influence.

Congratulations, all of you!

Now to the actual comments:

Bowie: Beautiful track! I think that you've solved a musical problem in a very mature and intelligent way, and I follow your rationale completely.

I also like a lot of your orchestrations (though some are harder to deduce due to midi masking true timbres), and I think the overall flow is very good.

Sometimes lines seem to switch from instrument to instrument a little quickly, especially when the lines also modulate (as in the beginning), which sounds more startling than reflective, but again, this is also something that could have been emphasised more flatteringly in an actual performance.

Every now and then, I feel I would like the theme to be chiseled out a little clearer, so that it would seem more musically pregnant, but I certainly understand your motivation for not doing so, and I guess it's ultimately a matter of taste.

Perhaps removing the "Love Theme from..."-bit, and just retaining the main title would be enough? Then we wouldn't have to expect more of a pronounced love theme?

As is, I think your track would work beautifully in a reflective love scene.

Jeshopk: I think your theme is great fun! And I love the timbral suggestiveness of the percussion-rattle! That small detail adds so much!

I also think the theme itself is very strong, and very appropriate for a more comedic march. It does become a little more difficult to actually imagine it as part of an Indy score, but that matters less.

David Vincent: Your piece has a lot of energy, and I really like the dim, sub. cresc. effect of your ending. I think the piece would also benefit from having a more pronounced theme per se, and I even have a suggestion as to what figure I think you should focus on: There's a chromatically descending line, I think in tubular bells (it's hard for me to tell with midi timbres), which I think could be made to sound both menacing and magical.

If you were to give it more orchestral prominence, and add some harmonic twists to it, it could become a powerful "idee fixe", much like Sirius Black's motif from "Prisoner of Azkaban".

MSM: For some reason, yours won't play for me... I'll get back to your piece later, then.

Cheers, everyone!

And congrats again!

[Jeshopk 8]

Thanks Marcus! So are you the winner yet or does voting go on?

[Bowie 45]

Thanks Marcus! So are you the winner yet or does voting go on?

Perhaps I should concede defeat?

I don't mind. I do feel Marcus's is inherently superior to my work. Congratulations!

Once the competition is over I shall add some specific comments for everyone's pieces.

How about we vote on what and/or when should be the next competition?

[AI 0]

I voted for your one, Bowie.

Marcus piece is very good but it wasn't composed for this purpose, so he lost a couple of gold stars. In the eyes of the AI.

Jeshopk's piece is clearly written for a different type of character.

David Vincent's one, sounds not much like Indiana Jones, though it is fine a piece of film score.

MSM's one, has an Indy type of feel, but it was a little too repetitive on the theme.

DV's and MSM's ones suffer a little from a not so great sounds.

[Marcus 390]

My "Soviet March" was indeed composed very specifically for this thread, AI.

Thank you, everyone, for your very kind comments!

(MSM, yours still won't play for me, but it could be my computer...)

[AI 0]

Aye marcus? I wrote one too, and I think it buries your one.

I threw it away.

But if you want to throw down, sure.

[Marcus 390]

You've become quite an enigma, AI...

[AI 0]

Nothing enigmatic about AI.

He's just better composer than you!

[Marcus 390]

OK.

I will not contest that (not that I've ever heard your music, but if you say so, at least you think so, and I respect your opinion. Sincerely).

[AI 0]

I'm just a squirrel, trying to get a nut.

[Marcus 390]

Aren't we all...

But if you want to, you can be a better squirrel than me, too.

[AI 0]

Me? no, you are a better squirrel than I marcus, you like to squirm, don't you?

[MSM 126]

MSM's one, has an Indy type of feel, but it was a little too repetitive on the theme.

DV's and MSM's ones suffer a little from a not so great sounds.

It's a Rondo

David and Datameister kindly made these recordings for me, at least they're better than nothing (my own recording was corrupted). It seems some have trouble opening my clip, I'll see if I can fix it.

Marcus, it seems you're winning, congrats!

[David Vincent 8]

It seems some have trouble opening my clip, I'll see if I can fix it.

If some people have trouble while opening your file and not the others, it is probably because you named your file using spaces and URL can't contain spaces.

While your file is named :

There Will Be Adventure - M.S. Ma.mp3

... the URL to download it must be http://dev.ytec.nl/ming/There%20Will%20Be%...20M.S.%20Ma.mp3.

Some internet navigators should be confused, even with capital letters so I used to have URL without any space nor upper cases.

[MSM 126]

It seems some have trouble opening my clip, I'll see if I can fix it.

If some people have trouble while opening your file and not the others, it is probably because you named your file using spaces and URL can't contain spaces.

While your file is named :

There Will Be Adventure - M.S. Ma.mp3

... the URL to download it must be http://dev.ytec.nl/ming/There%20Will%20Be%...20M.S.%20Ma.mp3.

Some internet navigators should be confused, even with capital letters so I used to have URL without any space nor upper cases.

I see...then I'll see if I can get the url changed. I didn't upload it myself either... Thanks, anyway.

[Karovd 0]

Personally I found it difficult to choose, since they're very different imho - But I've decided to vote for Marcus' piece(s). I even went and orchestrated his Russian March, but I'm a bit reluctant to post it since it didn't turn out quite as good as I had hoped

[Marcus 390]

Personally I found it difficult to choose, since they're very different imho - But I've decided to vote for Marcus' piece(s). I even went and orchestrated his Russian March, but I'm a bit reluctant to post it since it didn't turn out quite as good as I had hoped

Dear Karovd, you are too kind!

Wow, I'm completely flabbergasted! Could you PM me the orchestrations? I could make some suggestions.

Thank you so very, very much!

[AI 0]

I would like to hear what you did Karovd! Please post it.

or otherwise,

(I may regret this later!) , but I will render an orchestration of Marcus piece with some nice sounds, if you send me the midi file, Karovd.

Since Marcus is the winner, it seems, I think his composition deserves as such.

[Karovd 0]

Ok, I'll post it, though please note, that Marcus had a couple of good ideas for changes that I haven't had the time to implement yet:

http://www.box.net/shared/7qms309b40

btw, AI what sounds do you use?

[AI 0]

Cat, that is really good! I'm sure Marcus is beaming.

btw, AI what sounds do you use?

The same ones as you.

[MSM 126]

Ok, I'll post it, though please note, that Marcus had a couple of good ideas for changes that I haven't had the time to implement yet:

http://www.box.net/shared/7qms309b40

btw, AI what sounds do you use?

Wow, damn, what does it take to get such amazing sounds?

It's a great piece, and a great orchestration, good work

[Pieter Boelen 740]

This is a rather a hard choice to make; it is all very good. So rather than voting, I'll just try to give some very short and very unprofessional comments of my thoughts.

Jeshopk - "Rattlesnake Jake Theme"

Sounds like good fun and I actually found myself humming it in my head on the way to the store on day. It sounds perfect for the purpose it was written for, though perhaps not so much as actual Indiana Jones music. Very good though.

Bowie - "An Excavated Affair - Love Theme"

I like how there are hints of the Raiders March in the piece. Very nicely incorporated.

David Vincent - "Crystal Skull Theme"

Sounds mysterious and somewhat dangerous and threatening. A little bit crystally perhaps as well. Good one!

Marcus - "Russian March"

Sounds really quite Russian. It's not nescessarily a hummable march tune, but I can see it working very well in a scene of Soviet trucks driving through a snowy Russian landscape. Impressive.

MSM - "There Will Be Adventure!"

This one is really good fun and I can actually see it playing in an Indiana Jones with son on motorbike chase sequence. Perhaps a bit too cheerful for a real Indiana Jones film, but then so was Indy's Very First Adventure. It seems to be somewhat in the same vein as that cue, which can only be a good thing.

In short: Good job everyone! I would very much like to hear the rest of those Indiana Jones IV fan scores. Though I know you probably won't go through the trouble of composing them, I would still like to hear it if ever you do.