Film Score Monthly announces the Blue Box - Superman.

[Guest macrea]

I hope this makes the concept less baffling.

Sorry, but it doesn't. "Passing" interest, I'd get. "Little" interest, I'd get. "NO" interest in something that you have absolutely no details about, and for something that is not even confirmed official, is what makes no sense because you make it sound as if you know exactly what it's going to be. After you read about the release when it is officially announced and listen to samples, or after other people get it and tell you about it, then say you have no interest. But at this exact moment, despite some valid reasoning, such a carved-in-stone dismissal is premature for any John Williams fan. After all it is possible to be "interested" in something but not get it. Example: I've had an iPod for a while and new models have come out since. My current one runs perfectly and at the moment I can't afford a new one, but that doesn't mean I have "no interest" in a new one. Lest you find yourself eating your words you should wait until you have something concrete on which to base your statement.

[King Mark 3,631]

1. Superman: The Movie is not a score I listen to regularly. Not because I believe it's poorly written or conceived, but simply because much of the music fails to engage me.

You have a point

Superman is written in the JW golden era and is epic enough,but I find it much less engaging to listen to from beginning to end than any Star Wars or Indiana Jones scores.A lot of the action cues in the second half (sonic greeting,misguided missiles,chasing rockets,superfeats)are less well structured than some other scores like Raiders or Empire.

[indy4 155]

I agree.

But the march is one of his best works ever.

[King Mark 3,631]

Back in the early 90's when I was actively seeking out JW scores in stores,Superman is actually one I skipped for a long time.I couldn't really remember any truly memorable cues from the film except the Main Title March.

[Hlao-roo 389]

I hope this makes the concept less baffling.

Sorry, but it doesn't. "Passing" interest, I'd get. "Little" interest, I'd get. "NO" interest in something that you have absolutely no details about, and for something that is not even confirmed official, is what makes no sense because you make it sound as if you know exactly what it's going to be. After you read about the release when it is officially announced and listen to samples, or after other people get it and tell you about it, then say you have no interest. But at this exact moment, despite some valid reasoning, such a carved-in-stone dismissal is premature for any John Williams fan. After all it is possible to be "interested" in something but not get it. Example: I've had an iPod for a while and new models have come out since. My current one runs perfectly and at the moment I can't afford a new one, but that doesn't mean I have "no interest" in a new one. Lest you find yourself eating your words you should wait until you have something concrete on which to base your statement.

Gasp, you're right! Golly gee whiz, what if Lukas was lying? What if the set actually ends up being free? Heck, what if turns out we end up getting paid $119.95 to order the set? Boy would I sure end up eating my words, then! You're so right that I should keep my mind open. Maybe, when Matessino alluded to the Richard Donner film in his post, he actually meant Steven Spielberg! Or maybe we were wrong all along! Maybe Richard Donner actually ghost-directed the Indiana Jones trilogy! In fact, maybe it won't be CDs at all! Maybe "8 CDs" is code for 8 iPods! 8 iPods for $119.95 -- what a steal! Hey, just imagine: what if, when people listen to the new set, they are given immortality and lifelong happiness? And maybe they'll throw in world peace and a cure for cancer as extra bonuses?

My God, how could I have been so dismissive and myopic?! Thank you, macrea, for helping me see the errors of my ways.

[Guest macrea]

Gee, I thought this was a conversation. It is a message board, after all, but once again it's been turned into a sarcastic mud sling. Look, if you don't want it you don't want it. I just think you should first find out what it is you don't want.

Moving on to the comments from K.M., who can be stubborn once in a while but at least maintains good message board conduct... Interesting view that I haven't heard too often. Superman to me is one of those scores where every moment is interesting and memorable and appropriately done. It never just drones along like a lot of the Star Wars prequel scores, Return of the Jedi and a few bits of the Indiana Jones scores. Even Raiders has at least two cues that I always felt were conceptually misguided and on that one I get a little weary of trumpets blaring away in their upper range. If a superior sounding Superman is coming out, I'll be getting it. And I stress "if", since I have no facts about this release as yet to definitively inform my purchasing decision.

[Hlao-roo 389]

Gee, I thought this was a conversation. It is a message board, after all, but once again it's been turned into a sarcastic mud sling. Look, if you don't want it you don't want it. I just think you should first find out what it is you don't want.

Moving on to the comments from K.M., who can be stubborn once in a while but at least maintains good message board conduct... Interesting view that I haven't heard too often. Superman to me is one of those scores where every moment is interesting and memorable and appropriately done. It never just drones along like a lot of the Star Wars prequel scores, Return of the Jedi and a few bits of the Indiana Jones scores. Even Raiders has at least two cues that I always felt were conceptually misguided and on that one I get a little weary of trumpets blaring away in their upper range. If a superior sounding Superman is coming out, I'll be getting it. And I stress "if", since I have no facts about this release as yet to definitively inform my purchasing decision.

The sarcasm may have been excessive, but the point you were pursuing so strenuously was patently absurd. Let's go back to read the opening sentence of your original post:

If this set is Superman I can't understand how one can be a John Williams fan and have "no interest."

Really? So if someone is not interested in purchasing this set -- defined in your statement as Superman -- then that person is automatically, in your mind, not a fan of John Williams? How did this set become a necessary condition of admiring John Williams? And, furthermore, how can you be so audacious as to think you can tell people what they should or should not be interested in -- what they should or should not think or feel? Before you start criticizing other people's "message board conduct," perhaps you should examine your own.

If you want, let's call a truce. You think that I am not a John Williams fan. I think I am. And we are free to disagree.

[King Mark 3,631]

Superman is still a must have in every JWfan's collection.

The point is we already have more than the complete score in decent sound quality.Ok,it could sound better but it's not as bad as Return of the Jedi lets say.Nothing I was ever overly concerned with,not even to bother ripping the audio off the DVD iso score.

As for Superman 2 and 3...I have the LP rips which I don't listen to much regardless of sound quality.I don;t see how more material written by Thorne will change my mind.

I hope the press release and sound clips blow me a way,but I am sceptical

[Guest macrea]

As you are re-reading, can you maybe just take a second to notice that my entire point is based on the fact that solid, confirmed information about this release does not as yet exist? If that didn't come across clearly, then mea culpa. I'm not saying anyone is required to like Superman (I happen to really dislike A.I. and I'm in a minority around here on that). One more time, friend, I'm only saying that the announcement... "unconfirmed report of unspecified new Superman release" should not, in my opinion, engender an immediate iron-clad response of "no interest" from a John Williams fan. A "wait and see" posture, sure, followed by a "no interest" once the thing is out. This is not about liking or not liking Superman, it's about saying you don't eat a particular food before you find out it's even being served. Peace.

[Hlao-roo 389]

As you are re-reading, can you maybe just take a second to notice that my entire point is based on the fact that solid, confirmed information about this release does not as yet exist? If that didn't come across clearly, then mea culpa. I'm not saying anyone is required to like Superman (I happen to really dislike A.I. and I'm in a minority around here on that). One more time, friend, I'm only saying that the announcement... "unconfirmed report of unspecified new Superman release" should not, in my opinion, engender an immediate iron-clad response of "no interest" from a John Williams fan. A "wait and see" posture, sure, followed by a "no interest" once the thing is out. This is not about liking or not liking Superman, it's about saying you don't eat a particular food before you find out it's even being served. Peace.

All righty, apparently you were merely making what you believed to be a helpful suggestion, and I misinterpreted. Apologies.

[King Mark 3,631]

Well,from what I can read it's pretty much confirmed.Not just by Ricard's post in the main page,but by reading various threads about it.

I am in a wait and see what it is mode.And I never said I didn't like Superman.It's still somewhere in my top 15 JW scores.

But Score we already have in better sound is much less exciting to look forward to than Score we don't have in an expanded form

[Hlao-roo 389]

Well,from what I can read it's pretty much confirmed.Not just by Ricard's post in the main page,but by reading various threads about it.

Yeah, I think Lukas's most recent post, coupled with his previous one and Mike Matessino's, makes it pretty clear:

I have no problem with jwfan's reporting. It seems like they are just repeating what Mike and I recently posted here at FSM. I was annoyed at Bruce Marshall's blabbing about the "blue box" around 9 months or more ago because it was so premature but we're in the end game now. And as someone wisely pointed out, you can't buy this kind of publicity...woohoo!!!

lk

[Dalton007 0]

Considering that no one has heard the Thorne stuff outside of the badly mixed films and scratchy LPs/CDs, isn't a bit premature to say "No Thanks?" Let's wait and see before jumping to conclusions.

[Guest macrea]

We can deduce it's a Superman release, but we have no specifics about content, sound quality, and unreleased material, all factors that will have a bearing on purchase decisions. This is an unusual way to operate for FSM, but apparently it happened because Lukas Kendall had to keep pushing back the release date and in the meantime a lot of people guessed what it was because some bozo months ago leaked the color of the package. If nothing else it proves why FSM and other labels don't announce anything until it's ready to send out. It's at that time that we read about a release and hear the sample tracks and decide if we want it. I see no reason to do anything different with this just because we happen to know it's coming in advance due to peculiar circumstances. As I said before, if the original Superman is presented with improved sound quality and more bonus tracks, I'll most likely get it. Of course I'd like other unreleased scores, but I prefer to enjoy what is released to its fullest rather than sit around pining for what I don't have. Experience has proved that it all eventually comes out. If you were collecting Williams scores before 1993 you know what I mean.

[Hlao-roo 389]

Considering that no one has heard the Thorne stuff outside of the badly mixed films and scratchy LPs/CDs, isn't a bit premature to say "No Thanks?" Let's wait and see before jumping to conclusions.

We can deduce it's a Superman release, but we have no specifics about content, sound quality, and unreleased material, all factors that will have a bearing on purchase decisions. This is an unusual way to operate for FSM, but apparently it happened because Lukas Kendall had to keep pushing back the release date and in the meantime a lot of people guessed what it was because some bozo months ago leaked the color of the package. If nothing else it proves why FSM and other labels don't announce anything until it's ready to send out. It's at that time that we read about a release and hear the sample tracks and decide if we want it. I see no reason to do anything different with this just because we happen to know it's coming in advance due to peculiar circumstances. As I said before, if the original Superman is presented with improved sound quality and more bonus tracks, I'll most likely get it. Of course I'd like other unreleased scores, but I prefer to enjoy what is released to its fullest rather than sit around pining for what I don't have. Experience has proved that it all eventually comes out. If you were collecting Williams scores before 1993 you know what I mean.

Yeah, I think another reason why we're differing over whether or not it's too soon to say yes or no regarding this release is that whereas you (and others) take a careful, multifaceted approach to deciding whether or not purchase a soundtrack, I tend to decide in a cruder and swifter manner, for two reasons:

a) I'm a much less avid collector of soundtracks than the majority of members here; and

b) I'm operating on a much tighter budget than at least you appear to be. As I said indicated earlier, the $119.95 price tag is prohibitive. An investment in this album set would mean that it would be quite some time before I would be able to purchase any new scores (including the forthcoming Indiana Jones score) or any of the classics I've been angling to get.

[Guest macrea]

While I don't have to raid my kids' piggy banks to buy this thing, I am very careful about how much I spend on my soundtrack hobby so if I have to I will offset the investment somehow. Lose a few trips to the cinema this year and it's covered. But it's also a matter of value. Again, not having any details I can only guess, but as a serious soundtrack collector my impression from what has been implied thus far is that the music as well as the extensive book are going to be very informative and yield many hours of enjoyment for years to come, as opposed to the new Indiana Jones score, which probably will be played once in a while on my iPod while the jewel case with its stickers and fold-out poster sit in the carousel.

[Ollie 1,059]

This whole discussion has gotten ridiculous. When you factor in shipping $120.00 + is alot to spend and not everyone can justify plopping down that amount of money on CDs.

What you are forgetting is that there has been quite a few requests for the other 3 Superman scores at other film score message boards. JWFAN does not encompass all film score, Superman or John Williams fans.

Yes I'm going to buy it because I can afford to and I actually like Ken Thorne's score to Superman III because it isn't a cut and paste job and I'm also guessing that LK and Mike Mattesino may have found some more goodies or added some things that they weren't able to include on the Rhino 2 disc set.

[robthehand 3]

Hmm, I'll have to see the details of what's on it. The Superman III score has some good moments, and of course the first score is great, but $120 + international shipping + import duty seems an awful lot. I'll probably end up getting it at some point though, if it doesn't sell out.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

Maybe I should revise my statement to say *IF the set is what's being predicted (ie, a set of the complete Superman scores)* then it's not something I'd purchase, even as a John Williams fan, because I already own the only Williams score that would be in the release. I've never paid so much for anything soundtrack-related, and enjoyable soundclips from the sequel scores aren't going to make me decide to shell out $120+. If it's something completely different, then who the hell knows, but it seems fairly certain at this point.

[Guest macrea]

It is a little ridiculous but only because we found out about this thing so far ahead of time that there's nothing else to do but speculate and spin our wheels. I can understand now why things aren't announced until they're available and I bet FSM is very annoyed that it happened like this, and all because some schmuck betrayed a confidence and went on an ego trip. Look at the path of destruction that resulted. I'm going to do my best to just forget all about the whole thing until the official word happens. See you guys then.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

1. Superman: The Movie is not a score I listen to regularly. Not because I believe it's poorly written or conceived, but simply because much of the music fails to engage me.

You have a point

Superman is written in the JW golden era and is epic enough,but I find it much less engaging to listen to from beginning to end than any Star Wars or Indiana Jones scores.A lot of the action cues in the second half (sonic greeting,misguided missiles,chasing rockets,superfeats)are less well structured than some other scores like Raiders or Empire.

Superman is a better score than Star Wars, or any of its lesser followups, and better than all the Indy scores, (Crystals skulls, likely but not sure)

[GoldsmithFanatic2000+ 0]

I listen to Superman: The Movie far more then I do Star Wars or Indiana Jones.

The only Star Wars score I ever listen to up to the level I do Superman is the original 1977 score.

The same goes for Indiana Jones. The only score I listen to around the same level I do Superman is Temple of Doom.

Williams' Superman: The Movie is pure excellence. I love everything about it and very rarely do I listen to it out of sequence.

It's far too good to just go and play the march over and over.

[King Mark 3,631]

1. Superman: The Movie is not a score I listen to regularly. Not because I believe it's poorly written or conceived, but simply because much of the music fails to engage me.

You have a point

Superman is written in the JW golden era and is epic enough,but I find it much less engaging to listen to from beginning to end than any Star Wars or Indiana Jones scores.A lot of the action cues in the second half (sonic greeting,misguided missiles,chasing rockets,superfeats)are less well structured than some other scores like Raiders or Empire.

Superman is a better score than Star Wars, or any of its lesser followups, and better than all the Indy scores, (Crystals skulls, likely but not sure)

no it's not

[Saxbabe 28]

From the standpoint of "the history of music for the Superman franchise", I think this set is absolutely worth the money. When I read the announcement, my first thought was wow, that's a nice deal. If you're only interested in JW's contributions, well, that's fine, but to look at the evolution of the music over the series, an overview like this is necessary and is a treasure to have.

I would love to get the set personally (especially for the book). Kudos to FSM for putting together a complete presentation such as this and doing the musicological detective work necessary to get there. We owe them a whole lot as a label for the advancement of film music history.

I wonder though how limited it will be, because I simply don't have the money right now, and won't for 6 months to a year (last year of school here), eventually I hope I can snag one though.

For those complaining about the price - if you don't have the money, that's one thing. Does that mean they should charge less for the product though, because you can't afford it? No.

Walk into Barnes and Noble, buy a soundtrack release - you're going to pay right at $20. For one CD. 8 of those? $160. Add in the packaging. Add in the cost of the production of the documentation. Factor in the research and effort involved, and you come out to at least at $100 over what FSM is charging.

If there will be projects like this in the future, FSM has to not only cover their costs but make money. $120 is IMO, far more than fair.

[indy4 155]

Speaking of Ken Thorne, anybody know if there's a chance of his score to Inspector Clouseau being released in the future?

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

For those complaining about the price - if you don't have the money, that's one thing. Does that mean they should charge less for the product though, because you can't afford it? No.

I hope that's not the impression I was giving...I'm sure it's a fair price for everything included in the set. I could afford such a release if I wanted to, but it's not worth it to me personally. As I said before, this is great for people who are interested in the Superman scores as a complete set.

[Saxbabe 28]

Oh no, I wasn't referring to your post.

But this:

Well considering John Williams only did the first film and only wrote themes for the fourth, $120 is a lot of money for something most people don't care for.

It seems to me, the intent of FSM wasn't to create a set to please JW fans, but Superman fans in general. Koray, okay, I understand where you are coming from, but many people do care about the other music and the complete presentation, so in general it is a good deal.

Looking at it from a purely JW standpoint, the Rhino release is great, and makes this less of buying priority. I myself won't be able to buy the new set for quite a while myself, but, I wouldn't mind paying $120 when I am able to, as I'm interested in the full material.

[Trent Hoyt 13]

Monsignor's ordered!

Okay, commence Superman-talk.

Enjoy it, I surely do.

I hate to say it but I think I'm with KM on this one. Although I love it and recognize its greatness, much of it doesn't engage me.

I'll still buy the set though.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Nothing I've read here and on FSM so far has been anything other then speculation by those who are not in the know, yet it's being reported as fact. Even on Ricard's main page.

Would a Superman box not be red rather then blue?

[Guest macrea]

Maybe because FSM's previous box set was red? (Elmer Bernstein collection) Or maybe in light of references such as "Blue Bomb Buzzes Metropolis," "Like a big blue bird," "I held up my end, I delivered you the blue boy," etc? Or maybe because blue was used throughout the film series for the credits and advertising? Those weren't red.

Ricard did seem to jump to conclusions but the "speculation" seems to have been confirmed here.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Sigh...

[Ollie 1,059]

Steef it's gonna be a Superman box set.

[Kendal_Ozzel 36]

The box inside the Ultimate DVD tin was blue...

Ozzel - still waiting for that apostrophe + s in the thread title

[Trent B 337]

Well now that I'm single again (long story don't ask) I can afford this set. I will be buying it, all though it'll have to wait a few months since I'm buying a couple of other expensive toys first.

[indy4 155]

The box inside the Ultimate DVD tin was blue...

Ozzel - still waiting for that apostrophe + s in the thread title

:spiny:

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Well now that I'm single again (long story don't ask) I can afford this set.

Too many caviar dinners and pampered room service at the Ritz?

[King Mark 3,631]

http://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/post...1&archive=0

[Trent B 337]

Well now that I'm single again (long story don't ask) I can afford this set.

Too many caviar dinners and pampered room service at the Ritz?

Ha, funny but nope as I said I won't explain what happened, really no one else's business no offense.

[Trent Hoyt 13]

"There will be an initial pressing of 3000 units. If it doesn't sell-out, then there won't be a re-pressing. The price, based on previous FSM boxset releases, won't necessarily drop. It's a fixed price. So get in there as soon as you are able to."

I think this will sell pretty well. I guess I'll have to get in.

[Maestro 147]

This isn't for John Williams fans, but for Superman fans?? How small a niche is the group of people who love both Superman AND film scores so much they're willing to shell out 120 bucks for a huge box set?

And, for the record, I stand with those who consider Superman one of the least engaging scores of Johnny's "golden age."

[Trent Hoyt 13]

And, for the record, I stand with those who consider Superman one of the least engaging scores of Johnny's "golden age."

I completely agree with you.

[pixie_twinkle 48]

I have to disagree. I think the first half of the score features some of the best music John Williams has written. The Destruction of Krypton/Trip to Earth is pure gold (or blue...)

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

This isn't for John Williams fans, but for Superman fans?? How small a niche is the group of people who love both Superman AND film scores so much they're willing to shell out 120 bucks for a huge box set?

And, for the record, I stand with those who consider Superman one of the least engaging scores of Johnny's "golden age."

I fully disagree. The score is loaded with bold fanfaric prominence, emotion, poignancy, surrealism and approached with completely different styles, sometimes all in one track. "The Fortress of Solitude" is a great example. The music is so dense, I discover something new and interesting every time I hear it.

[King Mark 3,631]

I have to disagree. I think the first half of the score features some of the best music John Williams has written. The Destruction of Krypton/Trip to Earth is pure gold (or blue...)

It's fantastic up to The Big Rescue,then it's so-so.That's where I have a problem placing it in the same league as the Star Wars and Indy scores.

Still,a re-mastered Superman score is better than Sony releasing the same Star Wars c.d.'s over and over again.

The score to Superman the Movie should be available by itself outside of the box set.

[indy4 155]

The Superman March may be above anything on the Indy/SW scores (MAYBE), but the entire score is not nearly as good as SW or Indy (any from the two series).

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

Though the score as a whole is not one of my favorites, the march and love theme are certainly as good as Williams gets.

[Miguel Andrade 1,263]

Nothing I've read here and on FSM so far has been anything other then speculation by those who are not in the know, yet it's being reported as fact. Even on Ricard's main page.

Would a Superman box not be red rather then blue?

Stefan, Lukas and Mike's posts at FSM leave no space for speculation... all is pretty obvious.

[King Mark 3,631]

Nothing I've read here and on FSM so far has been anything other then speculation by those who are not in the know, yet it's being reported as fact. Even on Ricard's main page.

Would a Superman box not be red rather then blue?

Stefan, Lukas and Mike's posts at FSM leave no space for speculation... all is pretty obvious.

Stefancos can't read between the lines,piece things together and make a conclusion from his own intuition .He needs a hard fact press release before he can finally believe it.Untill then it's just rumors based on nothing.

Same kind of stubborness applies in not believing John Williams wrote more score for Chamber of Secrets than he said in one interview.Now i see why there was even no point arguing about it,.

K.M.

[Ollie 1,059]

You do the same thing KM, in fact you mat be the king of doing that.

Do some of you honestly believe that JWFAN, or even the other film score message boards, truly represent the entire film score community of fans?

There are many more people out there who are fans that do not post at these forums, I personally know several.

There are plenty of Superman fans out there who are going to jump at this set. There are poeple who don't collect film scores that will probably buy this set because they collect Superman related material.

Outside of JWFAN I've seen plenty of people asking about the other 3 scores after the first Superman. Also don't forget not every film score fan spends his/her time on the internet, which brings in the eBay horders who will snatch them up to sell at a later date.

Personally I like Star Wars better but the entire score for Superman is one of Williams' best.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

If this Blue Box is indeed a Mega-Supes-Box set then I'll certainly buy it and not bitch and moan about it like you King Mark.

But I've been on the Internet long enough to not take rumors at face value.