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Schindler's List 4CD Recording Sessions


tharpdevenport

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Another question: were the film versions of "OYF'N Pripetshok" and "Yeroushalaim Chel Zahav" arranged by Williams? If yes, did he record them in Toronto as well?

This are licensed recordings, not arranged or recorded for the film.

Since the film versions of both pieces are quite different from the versions on the album (which are licensed as credited in the booklet), I thought they were specifically arranged by JW.

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Another question: were the film versions of "OYF'N Pripetshok" and "Yeroushalaim Chel Zahav" arranged by Williams? If yes, did he record them in Toronto as well?

This are licensed recordings, not arranged or recorded for the film.

Since the film versions of both pieces are quite different from the versions on the album (which are licensed as credited in the booklet), I thought they were specifically arranged by JW.

Yes, I noticed that too, when I watched the film the other day. But I believe that the film versions are also licensed version... but I'll double check the end credits later today.

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19M2/20M1 Insert is also an unreleased cue. It's an insert used in the film version of "I Could Have Done More". Heartbreaking stuff, really...

You're right, of course.

Actually, this seems to be an ALTERNATE insert from the one used in the film (which places more emphasis on the main theme). The film version is sadly nowhere to be found.

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19M2/20M1 Insert is also an unreleased cue. It's an insert used in the film version of "I Could Have Done More". Heartbreaking stuff, really...

You're right, of course.

Actually, this seems to be an ALTERNATE insert from the one used in the film (which places more emphasis on the main theme). The film version is sadly nowhere to be found.

Could the film version be an edit?

I would assume so...

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19M2/20M1 Insert is also an unreleased cue. It's an insert used in the film version of "I Could Have Done More". Heartbreaking stuff, really...

You're right, of course.

Actually, this seems to be an ALTERNATE insert from the one used in the film (which places more emphasis on the main theme). The film version is sadly nowhere to be found.

Could the film version be an edit?

I would assume so...

As far as I can tell, it's not tracked in from anywhere. It's just a different version of the insert -- a really beautiful one, too.

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Everyone should just be glad that there..... lets go back a few years.

If I were to say that there lay a 4 cd set of the recording sessions of an oscar winning film scored by JW... people would go NNNUUUUTTSSS...

well here is such a set.

Should there be ANY complaints?

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Here's my complaint:

the OST was already complete,in this very rare case.

You are one mystery of a JW fan KM. ;)

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I haven't listened to all of it yet,but for now I can't tell much of a difference between the various takes.For now I like the choirless Burial Scene the best.

What I meant is that it isn't one of these scores where we only have half the cues on the OST ,like ToD or Hook ,and that leaked recording sessions would bring us a bunch of long wanted cues.

I think even Catch me if You Can and The Terminal has more unreleased music than this.

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Obviously not, since we now have 4 hours of it.

The OST was criminally short.

Stefan, This 4 CDs are like the disc one bonus track from Star Wars SE, but instead of only the main title, the whole score.

It seems not much was left out of the OST CD.

But i think that the source cues are a nice addition :)

Mark, I really don't get you... You either want every single note recording, or then you don't feel the need for it...

To have a complete score is for listening experience.

Having 3-4 variations of each version of the main theme (and the rest of the score) its great to hear once and as you say, get insight on williams method of working. But as listening experience like Mark (Olivarez) said, hearing all versions of one cue one after the other is too much, and 4CDs even more.

I think KM is more complaining about the situation, where an almost complete score has leaked recordings sessions and where there are still scores with preposterus releases.

I'm happy with what we got, but because with it we can 'assemble' a completer score :P, and its one of Williams best works, and the only academy award wining score from Williams not to have a complete release :)

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I haven't listened to all of it yet,but for now I can't tell much of a difference between the various takes.

There's an expanded piano arrangement that's quite different from the CD, at least the ending is, plus it's longer

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The End Credits Piano Overlay (Tk 141) is longer than the album version and seems to contain continuously the main theme and part of the Remembrances theme on piano. In addition to that the pianist seems to be repeating the ending of the piece 1 more time after finishing the actual piece (heh a second take in one take).

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In addition to that the pianist seems to be repeating the ending of the piece 1 more time after finishing the actual piece

It's Williams on piano, isn't it?

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In addition to that the pianist seems to be repeating the ending of the piece 1 more time after finishing the actual piece

It's Williams on piano, isn't it?

It is.

And since when a complete score provides the best listening experience?

I did not said 'Best'

I said its more listenable and revisitable than a 4CD recording sessions.

Not necessarily. None of them may be listenable, as a musical experience.

I still consider that a shorter, well balanced sellection is always the best presentation.

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And since when a complete score provides the best listening experience?

I did not said 'Best'

I said its more listenable and revisitable than a 4CD recording sessions.

Not necessarily. None of them may be listenable, as a musical experience.

I still consider that a shorter, well balanced sellection is always the best presentation.

then these recording sessions must be a pain to get through :)

In addition to that the pianist seems to be repeating the ending of the piece 1 more time after finishing the actual piece

It's Williams on piano, isn't it?

It is.

I love when he does that.

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And since when a complete score provides the best listening experience?

I did not said 'Best'

I said its more listenable and revisitable than a 4CD recording sessions.

Not necessarily. None of them may be listenable, as a musical experience.

I still consider that a shorter, well balanced sellection is always the best presentation.

then these recording sessions must be a pain to get through :)

Of course they aren't. But I aproach them for studying purposes and not listening pleasure.

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The End Credits Piano Overlay (Tk 141) is longer than the album version and seems to contain continuously the main theme and part of the Remembrances theme on piano. In addition to that the pianist seems to be repeating the ending of the piece 1 more time after finishing the actual piece (heh a second take in one take).

That makes sense that it's a take within a take because you can clearly hear a wrong note and correction at 2:09 in tk141. Essentially what we have is a coda based on "Remembrances" not used in the film or the OST. Interesting.

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And since when a complete score provides the best listening experience?

I did not said 'Best'

I said its more listenable and revisitable than a 4CD recording sessions.

Not necessarily. None of them may be listenable, as a musical experience.

I still consider that a shorter, well balanced sellection is always the best presentation.

then these recording sessions must be a pain to get through :)

Of course they aren't. But I aproach them for studying purposes and not listening pleasure.

No a complete score is not always the best listening experience.

A complete score is needed to have all the cues so you can choose which one you want to listen to and to be sure no musical highlights are missing ,and not just those determined by John Williams in his sequencing of the OST,which are sometimes poor choices .The boring underscore can always be left off,but at least it doesn't waste a large part of the c.d. in place of better cues.

Miguels reasonning is flawed in that he takes JW's OST decisions as a final guide on HOW to appreciate the music as though Williams album arrangements and sequencing cannot be questionned as they are somehow part of the actual composition process. Example:Narration on Angela's Ashes.

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This is also true of Schindler's List. The album tosses out the theme of a man's redemption by presenting the most emotional pieces first. They belong at the end of the score. Don't get me wrong; I like listening to both versions of "Remembrances" (three, actually, as this recording sessions set reveals) and "Jewish Town," but they have no place in the narrative flow. The album also places "I Could Have Done More" far too early.

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A complete score is needed to have all the cues so you can choose which one you want to listen to and to be sure no musical highlights are missing ,and not just those determined by John Williams in his sequencing of the OST,which are sometimes poor choices .The boring underscore can always be left off,but at least it doesn't waste a large part of the c.d. in place of better cues.

Miguels reasonning is flawed in that he takes JW's OST decisions as a final guide on HOW to appreciate the music as though Williams album arrangements and sequencing cannot be questionned as they are somehow part of the actual composition process. Example:Narration on Angela's Ashes.

Oh my God Mark, how can I be such a fool... I should always have known how you know much more about music than John Williams!

Better yet, you and all the fans here know more than Williams! Maybe he should just stop composing and leave that to you all!!!

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Revenge of the Sith

Produced by King Mark

(about 78 minutes)

1)Main Title and Battle over Coruscant (Intended Version,no deleted elevator scene music)

2)Anakin Vs Dooku and Grevious and the Droids

3)Another Happy Landing and Revisiting Padme

4)Anakin's Dream

5)Be Carefull of your Friend and Palpatine's Big Pitch (not including the throat source music)

6)Good bye Old Friend and Going to Utapau

7)General Grevious

8)Palpatine's seduction (the film version)

9)Dialogue with Mace

10)I am the Senate

11)Lament

12)Bail's Escape,Yoda's Departure and Escape on the Tantive 5

13)Enter Lord Vader

14)Anakin's Dark Deeds (not edited)

15)Anakin and Padme met Again

16)Obi Wan vs Anakin and The boys Continue

17)Battle of the Heroes

18)Immolation Scene

19)Birth of the Twins (no Gui Gon's funeral)

20)Complete Finale (and no throne room re-recording)

Dropped stuff like Padme's Rumination ,jedi council music,Opera source cue,throne room...

Fits on one c.d.

Has all the highlights

with a OST like this a complete score becomes far less nessessary

K.M.

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As a listener I prefer all of the music and then I'll determine what cues to listen to. I'll take the original album as assembled and then when and if an expanded version is released I prefer it in order that the composer intended it to go in.

I don't care to have all the music from the recording sessions unless it's something that was un-used or the alternate cues are something completely different, like "Binary Sunset" from Star Wars.

But I don't need 5 versions of one cue with slight alterations to it.

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No,but he should leave it to me to arrange his OST'S!

This man really cares to put the music he has written in a kind of a Symphonic Suite like order which I really love by the way... and you just dont understand it. These albums arent made for people like you.. they are made for people who care about the music experience and not just every Ratataa Bmmm Tzzzz that was in the movie I personally think that the Revenge of the Sith Album is, as speaking of listening experience, a great thing!

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I've been listening to Williams for 30 years ,and know a lot of his scores to the smallest detail (not in musical terms though) I "understand" Williams way of sequencing his albums,and I think he does not always make the best choices.

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I've been listening to Williams for 30 years ,and know a lot of his scores to the smallest detail (not in musical terms though) I "understand" Williams way of sequencing his albums,and I think he does not always make the best choices.

well i have to admit, that the Jaws 20th anniversary edition was kind of akward.. Because that was a complete album.. but out of order.. hmm that didn make much sense to me..

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I feel like I've said this a lot, but I'll say it again: the inherently narrative nature of film music in almost all cases means that the best listening experience, and the one most in line with how the composer conceived of the music, is chronological order. There are albums that work great otherwise, like the original Jaws and E.T. soundtracks, but that's because many of the the pieces were arranged and expanded specifically for the album. To get the best idea of how the composer's music flows, develops, and tells a story, chronological order is really the only arrangement that makes sense.

This man really cares to put the music he has written in a kind of a Symphonic Suite like order which I really love by the way... and you just dont understand it. These albums arent made for people like you.. they are made for people who care about the music experience and not just every Ratataa Bmmm Tzzzz that was in the movie

I think Williams arranges the music as such because he thinks it has to be like that (tracks edited together, concert arrangements/setpieces at the beginning of the album, etc.) for us to get the most enjoyment out of it. And for casual fans or the general public, that's probably true. But I like to hear the work as it was originally intended, not spliced up and rearranged.

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While I don't particularly care about Williams's album sequencing -- I just rearrange it in iTunes -- the editing is simply awful.

I'm sorry, but it sounds fake. That's what you get when you try to stitch recordings together: a musical Frankenstein. Williams has become obsessed with the supposed power of digital editing technology. In the days of analogue, the only edit you could make was a cut. However, with the introduction of crossfading, reverb and other computer tricks it has become possible to screw around with the structure of music far more. Williams asks far too much of his editors.

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I feel like I've said this a lot, but I'll say it again: the inherently narrative nature of film music in almost all cases means that the best listening experience, and the one most in line with how the composer conceived of the music, is chronological order. There are albums that work great otherwise, like the original Jaws and E.T. soundtracks, but that's because many of the the pieces were arranged and expanded specifically for the album. To get the best idea of how the composer's music flows, develops, and tells a story, chronological order is really the only arrangement that makes sense.
This man really cares to put the music he has written in a kind of a Symphonic Suite like order which I really love by the way... and you just dont understand it. These albums arent made for people like you.. they are made for people who care about the music experience and not just every Ratataa Bmmm Tzzzz that was in the movie

I think Williams arranges the music as such because he thinks it has to be like that (tracks edited together, concert arrangements/setpieces at the beginning of the album, etc.) for us to get the most enjoyment out of it. And for casual fans or the general public, that's probably true. But I like to hear the work as it was originally intended, not spliced up and rearranged.

yes i understand you want to listen to the music as what it is.. a filmscore. So I agree that a chronological order makes sense if the score is complete.. and the goal of that release is it, to present all the notes written for a film.. But if it is a 60 minutes album and the composer has to make it an exiting stand alone product just for listening, and having just 60 minutes out of 150 he has to make decisions:

1: what music is needed, 2.what isn#t interesting 3. how shall I arrange it, that it doesnt get repetetive and boring

I think Williams is very good at arranging an album.. its almost like a huge concerto.. Vivid tracks followed by quiet tracks.. sweeping melodies then an action cue.. to me as a musician .. well music has to touch me and sory I just dont think it is exiting and having much sense in arranging a one 60 minutes score excerpt in chronological just because it appeared that way in the movie..

But I also have to say, that often I hear something in the movie that I want to listen to alone but I cant find it because the soundtrack isn't chronologically arranged :D

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I don't mind the sequencing of an album... I just hate unnecessary edits of important pieces. For example on the Revenge Of The Sith OST....having the end of "Anakin's Dark Deeds" edited the way it is, sucks balls...

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I don't mind the sequencing of an album... I just hate unnecessary edits of important pieces. For example on the Revenge Of The Sith OST....having the end of "Anakin's Dark Deeds" edited the way it is, sucks balls...

well yes.. I remeber sitting in the cinema aand hearing that fanfare and being annoyed of the fact that it isn't on the Album.. what is that 16sec.? that albumcut was especially for US.. the williams fans.. so that we buy another release in 10 years where I can "Finally" listen to that part!

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I've been listening to Williams for 30 years ,

Is that so? That's makes two of us...

and know a lot of his scores to the smallest detail (not in musical terms though) I "understand" Williams way of sequencing his albums,

I have doubts that you do...

and I think he does not always make the best choices.

Again, you base that on your taste and not on pure abstract musical ideas.

I feel like I've said this a lot, but I'll say it again: the inherently narrative nature of film music in almost all cases means that the best listening experience, and the one most in line with how the composer conceived of the music, is chronological order. There are albums that work great otherwise, like the original Jaws and E.T. soundtracks, but that's because many of the the pieces were arranged and expanded specifically for the album. To get the best idea of how the composer's music flows, develops, and tells a story, chronological order is really the only arrangement that makes sense.

E.T. and Jaws' music is narrative mostly, yet you agree that those albuns worked better as the arranged ones... Maybe then what we want are the non-narrative scores to be presented in cronological order...

This man really cares to put the music he has written in a kind of a Symphonic Suite like order which I really love by the way... and you just dont understand it. These albums arent made for people like you.. they are made for people who care about the music experience and not just every Ratataa Bmmm Tzzzz that was in the movie

I think Williams arranges the music as such because he thinks it has to be like that (tracks edited together, concert arrangements/setpieces at the beginning of the album, etc.) for us to get the most enjoyment out of it. And for casual fans or the general public, that's probably true. But I like to hear the work as it was originally intended, not spliced up and rearranged.

Ever thought that the casual listeners are the main public?

And the work as originally intended, as a piece of music, isn't what goes into the film...

May I recall you all what Copland once said to the orchestra... I know this should be played at other speed, but the scene requires to be done like this.

While I don't particularly care about Williams's album sequencing -- I just rearrange it in iTunes -- the editing is simply awful.

I'm sorry, but it sounds fake. That's what you get when you try to stitch recordings together: a musical Frankenstein. Williams has become obsessed with the supposed power of digital editing technology. In the days of analogue, the only edit you could make was a cut. However, with the introduction of crossfading, reverb and other computer tricks it has become possible to screw around with the structure of music far more. Williams asks far too much of his editors.

Yes, that's why he prefers to record in analogue...

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That in no way addresses my concerns about micro-editing.

I'm sure that is he had the time he would record the new tracks minus the bits his editors cut off.

There you go, happy now!

I dont understan why he prefers to end a cue without the glorious finale he wrote and use a neutered fanfare instead.

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I've been listening to Williams for 30 years ,

Is that so? That's makes two of us...

and know a lot of his scores to the smallest detail (not in musical terms though) I "understand" Williams way of sequencing his albums,

I have doubts that you do...

What I meant is that I probably spent as many hours listening to Williams as you have .I am guessing on this forum ,we have the most Williams listening hours of everyone.

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Williams is a horrible album producer, especially if he controls the process as much as Hellgi says he does. Going by recent big releases there'll be at least one or two micro edits in Indy 4 that will drive us mad.

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Williams is a horrible album producer, especially if he controls the process as much as Hellgi says he does. Going by recent big releases there'll be at least one or two micro edits in Indy 4 that will drive us mad.

I agree with this.

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I hope the movie's climactic scenes and Finale are intact.

AotC has the Emperor's Theme cut out

RotS fades in the middle of it with weird edits.

HPSS is missing The House Cup

HPPoA is missing Sirius Escapes and the best 13 seconds of the End Credits

We'll probably get "Indy Crawls Around in the Cave" instead of some amazing heroic cue we'll be waiting 20 years to see released.

And maybe scores like RotS would get more respect around here if Williams put amazing cues like Goodbye Old Friend and I am the Senate on the OST instead of the underscore for Obi Wan and Anakin discussing the Jedi council politics.That is why I think Williams sucks at producing albums

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What I meant is that I probably spent as many hours listening to Williams as you have .I am guessing on this forum ,we have the most Williams listening hours of everyone.

I hardly think so... I'm sure that there are many, even in this boards that have a much larger knowledge of John Williams than any of us two, and many more listening hours too...

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