The 2nd OFFICIAL Indy IV Thread

[Luke Skywalker 1,793]

Indy does not do fancy moves and outrageously impossible stuff;

You're right.

Throwing him miles through the air in a refridgerator, caused by an atom bomb,

is perfectly feasable.

As is the scene where

Marion drives over the cliff and lands in a tree.

They've crossed the line on these, even by Indy standards.

Sorry when i read that i can only remember 'slalom on mount humol'

PS: Universal Logo info anyone?

[FattyMcButterpants 1]

Slalom on Mt. Humol didn't nearly have the same effect of WTF? on me.

At least that ToD scene was only physically questionable, but the

fridge and truck scenes

were not only physically impossible, but also very goofy.

Stretching people's imagination is great, but don't treat them like complete morons.

[John Crichton 4]

There's no Universal logo, at least not the print I saw. It starts with the LucasFilm logo, then Paramount.

One other thing that struck me that I'm now just finding cohesive sentences for: it honestly didn't have a whole lot of weight. Depite Iriana's big speech about the potential of psychic weapons, the whole thing felt more like an exercise in intellectual curiosity than in world saving heroics. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, just different. And Indy did strike me as a bit more of the academic than adventurer in this one, so I guess that fits.

[Olivier 5]

Indy does not do fancy moves and outrageously impossible stuff;

You're right.

Throwing him miles through the air in a refridgerator, caused by an atom bomb,

is perfectly feasable.

As is the scene where

Marion drives over the cliff and lands in a tree.

They've crossed the line on these, even by Indy standards.

Er-- yeah.

Well, regarding

the fridge stunt, I admitted ealier it was cartoonish indeed. As for the cliff & falls sequence, I consider it part of the magic of such movies.

What I mean is that Indy himself does not leap 30-meter ravines nor jump them with a horse; he does not indefatigubly jump and skip about the set during a fight; he does not bend steel; he does not crash through a 30-centimeter door; ...

Something I have repeatedly forgotten to mention (or develop-- I think I did mention it rapidly):

I wish more had been done with the natives; both sombie-like guy and the tribesmen had wonderfully creepy appearances (popping out of a tomb, appearing & disappearing; literally coming out of the temple, through the carvings or whatever they were, I don't remember; both were excellent stage entrances), but they were much too quickly dealt with, especially on the temple's grounds. As it is, they might as well not even have existed, and the temple would still have been protected by its centuries-old traps; it is all the more disappointing as they are featured on the poster in a way that strongly recalls "Escape from Peru"

.

Regarding studio sets as opposed to location shoots as mentioned above, besides noting that I don't think King Kong had much location footage and used plenty of miniatures and photographic tricks, let me quote Steven Spielberg...

"[...] as exotic as we would like to think ourselves as filmmaker adventurers traveling the world to foreign locations, it might be more productive, and pleasant sometimes, to work wih some of the expert artists, the great matte painters and technicians we have at ILM. [...] Certainly, a lot of background shots have to be done in National Geographic countries, bit a lot more could be done and perhaps a lot of money and frustration saved, by more detailed work in the lab. I kind of like the idea of getting back into the old-fashioned studio system, the methodology of craftsmanship in movies, like it used to be in the Thirties-- glass painting , split screens, matte paintings."

Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom-- Official Collector's Edition (Paradise Press, Inc., 1984),

"Part 5: An Interview with Steven Spielberg", p 56

[Jay 37,323]

Anyone catch the nice Wilhelm scream when Indy and Mutt bust into the library on their bike?

[benefactor 3]

Seriously though, someone out there has to agree with me...entertainment standards are so low these days...it's amazing. I'm not even an old guy, i'm 24, and absolutely amazed.

I'm almost 30 and I agree with you completely! Sadly!

[FattyMcButterpants 1]

Of course the standards are low. That's why I'm struck by the apparent fact that alot of people can not only watch that

fridge or tree

stunt without keeling over, but can genuinely enjoy it.

[Luke Skywalker 1,793]

Of course the standards are low. That's why I'm struck by the apparent fact that alot of people can not only watch that

fridge or tree

stunt without keeling over, but can genuinely enjoy it.

I dont droll about it

i thought the amphivehicle was going to land directly in water,

but hey its not that awful

I dont buy Willie doesnt melt in the lava pit, for example.

And mine car, slalom are somewhat a strech too.

Come on which are the odds of surviving a airplane fall (if indy can survive this,

a jump on a fridge is no more difficult

) on a inflable boat, slide though a himalaya's mountain, (plenty of rocks to rip it) and land in a river----unscathed???

[John Crichton 4]

Anyone catch the nice Wilhelm scream when Indy and Mutt bust into the library on their bike?

Yeah. Definately an unusual placement.

[chinaismine 64]

The worst part of the movie, was that it was boring. The Indiana Jones films all have their flaws, but none of them inspired boredom. This one did.

Seriously though, someone out there has to agree with me...entertainment standards are so low these days...it's amazing. I'm not even an old guy, i'm 24, and absolutely amazed.

I agree 100%. I walked into the theater wanting to love this film and left with the same conclusion you did - this is a BORING film. There's not an ounce of peril or danger in the entire movie. Not to mention all the incredibly lame scenes people have already mentioned -

Prarie dogs, refridgerator, driving onto the tree - when this one came up it was all I could do to keep from bursting out laughing

. The entire

Marion-Indy

portion felt tacked on and forced. And the humor in this film did not work for me at all; this coming from a huge Last Crusade fan. Beyond that I'll just say that I agree with virtually every negative comment people have written in this thread. This is by far the worst of the four Indy films.

[Genius_Gone_Insane 5]

Some of you guys sound like you should consider a little reproduction practice as that may reduce your general bitterness and promote a more genuine appreciation of the good things in life.

[FattyMcButterpants 1]

Come on, the humor in LC is far more tasteful than KOTCS.

I may add that the scene after "Ants!", when Indy

picks up his hat to the heroic tones of the March

is almost corny.

[chinaismine 64]

Come on, the humor in LC is far more tasteful than KOTCS.

If this is directed at me than you misread my post - I love the humor in Last Crusade.

Some of you guys sound like you should consider a little reproduction practice as that may reduce your general bitterness and promote a more genuine appreciation of the good things in life.

I have no problem appreciating good things in life. This movie however, is not among them.

[FattyMcButterpants 1]

What I meant was, you sound like you should apologise for the humor in LC, when I think that the humor in LC is great.

[Guest macrea]

Seriously though, someone out there has to agree with me...entertainment standards are so low these days...it's amazing. I'm not even an old guy, i'm 24, and absolutely amazed.

I'm almost 30 and I agree with you completely! Sadly!

I agree with all the points in your post.

If Neil hates this movie, he's an extremely honest and perceptive fellow.

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

Anyway, another random thing I just remembered: As worryingly reported, there is no peril in this movie. At no point was I concerned about the safety of ANY of the 'Goodies', let alone Indy himself. Not a good sign.

Its something which also affects The Last Crusade for most part frankly.

This one was shot only in Hawaiia and the US . . .

Isn't Hawaii in the US?

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

I liked it a lot...there were certain things that didn't work so well, but overall I thought it was good. The score definitely seems better now, having seen how it works in the film, and there were several unreleased portions that would be great to have. Irina's theme in particular is really well done throughout the score, a terrifc musical signature for an Indy villain.

[indy4 155]

Irina's theme in particular is really well done throughout the score, a terrifc musical signature for an Indy villain.

And JW's music wasn't the only brilliant quality about Irina. She's probably my favorite Indy villain, even more than Belloq. Her image was brilliant and iconic, and her acting was superb.

[Ollie 1,059]

I don't even know where to begin with this mess of a film.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

And JW's music wasn't the only brilliant quality about Irina. She's probably my favorite Indy villain, even more than Belloq. Her image was brilliant and iconic, and her acting was superb.

Yeah, I knew Cate would be amazing. Never has a Russian accent been so sexy!

[ST-321 4]

I enjoyed the movie very much. A few things were over the top & unnecessary, but it was a fun romp as it was intended to be. I really enjoyed JW's score as presented in the film as well. Bring on a complete release now please.

[Jacob 0]

I just watched it.

Damn I thought it'd be better.

[MissPadmé 17]

I don't even know where to begin with this mess of a film.

well finally someone who semms to have some major problems with this "film" too. I really wasn't expecting such a positive response over here and general... from the moment Marion appeared.. everything became very quick, under developed.. un very hectic...

and that schmaltzy hollywood applause at the end and then even "Well done Indy!" ohh come on this was too cheesy for me ...

don't know do I have to use spoilertags?

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Yeah, Ricard or Marc will ban you if you don't.

Anyway, I didn't think this movie was anywhere near as bad as what people are making it out to be. Sure, the filmmakers might have gone a bit silly for certain scenes, but it's not the end of the world.

Yet again, I found King Solomon's Mines to be an 80's classic.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

It's probably best to err on the cautious side with spoilers for now, to avoid banning.

[indy4 155]

and that schmaltzy hollywood applause at the end and then even "Well done Indy!" ohh come on this was too cheesy for me ...

Was that at the end of the end credits, or during the film?

[MissPadmé 17]

and that schmaltzy hollywood applause at the end and then even "Well done Indy!" ohh come on this was too cheesy for me ...

Was that at the end of the end credits, or during the film?

that was in the last scene during the marriage... I think that the indy marion relation was SOO heavily underdevelpoed and unbelievable even for a Indy film

[Elmo Lewis 6]

It was fun watching this in the theater - yes, everything in this film is way underdeveloped but, in a strange and roundabout way, it adds to the casual-ness, the light-weight tone of the film. It was very strange for me to see an Indy film that wasn't familiar territory.

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

*cough* Temple of Doom *cough*

[Luke Skywalker 1,793]

It was very strange for me to see an Indy film that wasn't familiar territory.

yep. its an odd feeling right?

[Olivier 5]

Gee.

So

the refrigerator gag is admittedly cartoonish and some of you don't like two harmless prairie dog gags

, and this makes it the worst movie ever, a proof of low (taste & intellect) standards, a sign of coming apocalypse, and everybody should answer the call to arms to stone Spielberg, Lucas, Koepp and Ford and burn the movie?!?!?!

Of course your were meant to laugh when

the vehicle lands on the tree, the tree bends nicely, and then swaps a few communist soldiers

Of course a few things are corny

picking the hat, no that's mine

! They're meant to be!

There are some flaws, but not everything is a mistake, not everything is a blasphemy, not everything is proof that Spielberg is an incompetent hack who has lost his marbles. He has repeatedly shown over the years his mastery of storytelling, directing, emotion, taste, ... Of course he is not immune to failure, but this movie is absolutely not the complete failure some want to believe it is.

It's not Raiders, because it could not be; the team knew it, and they decided to do something different yet again, have a lot of fun, and to pull out some more stops.

Howcome so many people reproach hundreds of movies and scores their "uniformity", "sameness" and "derivativeness", yet when it comes to specific movies/scores, especially for franchises, they expect to see exact clones of their favorite ones (which they would rip apart if they were given just that), and bash the movie/score because it is not what they wanted it to be?!

A surprising (symptomatic? revealing?) thing is that the criticism always seems to hinge mostly around the same things:

the fridge

,

the prairie dogs

(about 10 seconds in all),

the Tarzaning

,

the bending tree

; yet not one of these has a major incidence on the action (

Mutt could have joined them any other way

, and

the tree gag helped end an already long chase; granted, the ants could have been used as a barrage stopping the villains; so that's one cartoony thing that could have been been avoided, along with the fridge scene

; wow, big deal, two so-so gags for a two-hour movie).

How about Marion not breaking at rib or spraining an ankle when she is thrown into The Well of Souls? How about Indy on the Nazi sub (the explanation-- tying himself to the periscope with his whip-- was edited out, but shown in the comic adaptation; yet even this did not explain why the sub never went under and lowered its periscope)? How about the "obvious effects" at the end?

How about Willie not dying from the heat and fumes when she is lowered very low into the lava pit?

Do these make the movies "the worst movies" ever? No. Neither do the liberties taken in the new one-- once again:

I do agree the fridge bit was over-the-top, but it did not ruin the whole movie for me; it can ruin it, however, if you were looking for an excuse to hate it from the start, which is clearly the case of some of the most vocal critics

.

Concerning the special effects,

the ants are truly

extremely well done. It could never have been done live, and it was a good idea that deserved being filmed.

Had such CGI effects been available at the time, they would have been used for Temple's bug tunnel scene, and it would have been just as good; the difference is that it would have been a lot easier for them to shoot, and they could have had more & longer shots and probably something a bit more digusting.

The ant scene was great, and the officer's death was impressive

.

The bottom line of it all:

- it's not Raiders, but it's not the worst film ever

- it's a good, fun, entertaining Indiana Jones movie, with some flaws (like the very first movie and many classics)

- liking it does not mean you have lower standards and are not intelligent enough to distinguish trash from real art

- hating & bashing it with a vengeance does not mean you are a superior intellect

- some basic principles, which all four movies are built on, must be kept in mind, and you must grant the filmmakers the freedom of going a bit further with those principles in a few instances; it's their right, and it does not ruin the whole movie

- the lack of a big crisis moment in the one truely big flaw-- not

the fridge and the prairie dogs

; yet there is so much genuine good humor & energy, there such great scenes, it is so well directed and edited, that the movie makes you oversee it and is highly enjoyable-- which is the very aim of this kind of movie.

[Luke Skywalker 1,793]

Does mac wear the cap that is featured in the poster?

I think it's mutts cap. Mac used a panama hat...

Unreleased scene?

Or artistic creative decision?

[Quintus 5,399]

Another shot which ended up on the cutting room floor?

[benefactor 3]

Gee.

So

the refrigerator gag is admittedly cartoonish and some of you don't like two harmless prairie dog gags

, and this makes it the worst movie ever, a proof of low (taste & intellect) standards, a sign of coming apocalypse, and everybody should answer the call to arms to stone Spielberg, Lucas, Koepp and Ford and burn the movie?!?!?!

Try to actually read before you sum up things, Comrade! Especially Post #645. A Murdoch comment.

[Neimoidian 14]

Slalom on Mt. Humol didn't nearly have the same effect of WTF? on me.

At least that ToD scene was only physically questionable, but the

fridge and truck scenes

were not only physically impossible, but also very goofy.

Stretching people's imagination is great, but don't treat them like complete morons.

For me, the Slalom scene had exactly the same efect as

the fridge scene

. One big WTF. However, knowing that such things do happen in IJ universe, I - managed to cope with such moments in the newest installment - not without some difficulty, though.

So

the refrigerator gag is admittedly cartoonish and some of you don't like two harmless prairie dog gags

, and this makes it the worst movie ever, a proof of low (taste & intellect) standards, a sign of coming apocalypse, and everybody should answer the call to arms to stone Spielberg, Lucas, Koepp and Ford and burn the movie?!?!?!

Mostly Lucas, since he became a scapegoat for every weak point of the movie. Not that he hasn't cheese on his hands, 'cause he probably has. But he is responsible for the good parts too and that should be acknowledged, especially since most of the board here enjoy this movie more or less.

The bottom line of it all:

- it's not Raiders, but it's not the worst film ever

- it's a good, fun, entertaining Indiana Jones movie, with some flaws (like the very first movie and many classics)

- liking it does not mean you have lower standards and are not intelligent enough to distinguish trash from real art

- hating & bashing it with a vengeance does not mean you are a superior intellect

- some basic principles, which all four movies are built on, must be kept in mind, and you must grant the filmmakers the freedom of going a bit further with those principles in a few instances; it's their right, and it does not ruin the whole movie

- the lack of a big crisis moment in the one truely big flaw-- not

the fridge and the prairie dogs

; yet there is so much genuine good humor & energy, there such great scenes, it is so well directed and edited, that the movie makes you oversee it and is highly enjoyable-- which is the very aim of this kind of movie.

I wholeheartedly agree and I'm happy this flick got rather positive response from the audience.

[Elmo Lewis 6]

A small bit I really liked -

barely minutes after he learns that Mutt is, indeed, his son, one of Indy's first reactions to Mutt's ideas is: "This is intolerable!".

It's kinda drowned in sound effects, but it's there.

Excessive self-referencing is one of this movie's biggest flaws, but in this case it works.

[Ollie 1,059]

Having over the top scenes are fine but it helps when the actual film is good.

I had no problems

with the prairie dog at the begining because the opening credits were beautifully shot. It was all real.

There was one moment that really grabbed my attention and that was

the mushroom cloud sequence. I have to admit that was a beautiful shot. Even my son nudged and said wow.

There was

no need for Marian to even be in this film. Her character is just there so Lucas and Spielberg can have their happy ending. Shia was wasted after the jungle chase sequence and that monkey scene was just...well awful.

Even the

ant sequence was tame compared to the past. I was expecting to see the ants tear a person apart in a somewhat gruesome way and carrying body parts back to the hole.

I never though I would be looking at my watch in an Indiana Jones film and wondering how much longer we had.

[Elmo Lewis 6]

Even the

ant sequence was tame compared to the past.

Then don't compare it to the past.

[Quintus 5,399]

You should know that is impossible.

[Delorean90 42]

I thought the

death of the Pat Roach replacement worked rather well despite the lack of expected gore. The ants pouring into his mouth, and then him writhing under a blanket of ants, getting pulled into hole with his legs sticking out

...it was pretty effective.

Another shot which ended up on the cutting room floor?

I was wondering about that...

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Mark is just being an old eff.

This film reminded me a lot of Lethal Weapon 4. A lot of references to the earlier films, some scenes and characters that did not need to be there, and a rather forced comedy ending.

But I've always loved Lethal Weapon 4, really loved it.

And I agree with Elmo that it was weird watching a new Indiana Jones film.

Did anyone find it odd, seeing Indiana in jeans and a T-shirt during the scene with the FBI guys?

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

A small bit I really liked -

barely minutes after he learns that Mutt is, indeed, his son, one of Indy's first reactions to Mutt's ideas is: "This is intolerable!".

It's kinda drowned in sound effects, but it's there.

Didn't that line actually appear just before he and Marion got

stuck in the quicksand?

Did anyone find it odd, seeing Indiana in jeans and a T-shirt during the scene with the FBI guys?

Let's not forget that he gets his balls scratched too this time.

[FattyMcButterpants 1]

For me, the real Indy film starts when we're back at the university, so the view of Indy in jeans doesn't do much for me.

[Elmo Lewis 6]

A small bit I really liked -

barely minutes after he learns that Mutt is, indeed, his son, one of Indy's first reactions to Mutt's ideas is: "This is intolerable!".

It's kinda drowned in sound effects, but it's there.

Didn't that line actually appear just before he and Marion got

stuck in the quicksand?

Did it? So he was being an old grouch, even if it was a reaction to Mutt's plan.

By the way, I hope the Pancho Villa story isn't a reference to the Young Indy TV show.

[Delorean90 42]

I kind of felt that too, Fatty. Part of it may have had to do with the fact that I was adjusting to it. But it was much more familiar once we get back to the university--I'm telling you, that establishing shot looked like it could have been shot in '80. And particularly the motorcycle chase just gave me a feeling of "Oh yeah, here we go."

Mark is just being an old eff.

This film reminded me a lot of Lethal Weapon 4. A lot of references to the earlier films, some scenes and characters that did not need to be there, and a rather forced comedy ending.

But I've always loved Lethal Weapon 4, really loved it.

And I agree with Elmo that it was weird watching a new Indiana Jones film.

Did anyone find it odd, seeing Indiana in jeans and a T-shirt during the scene with the FBI guys?

It was kind of weird. For me, as much as I liked it, it just kind of feels a little unreal, like my brain almost can't believe that there really is a fourth Indiana Jones film, and I've seen it. It'll probably help to see it again. I suspect the adjustment will be easier and easier as I continue to see it more and more. It's a bit surreal, though. I can't wait to see it again.

And it was a bit odd to see the jeans and T-shirt.

[Vaderbait1 1]

A few of the early scenes were a bit awkward, I think. Indy looked a little...well...old. But after that he seemed to get more comfortable in the role and moving around and I stopped even noticing his age. A few scenes were over the top, which kind of took away from the reality, but the writing, the banter, the action (except for two or three parts where it was just too over the top), was amazing. The finale wasn't as bad as people have said it was. It's not the best ending (that's LC), but it's not a bad one.

So apart from a few scenes in the beginning, I'd say this movie deserves to sit with the other three. And I'm far from a blind fan boy on this issue.

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

A small bit I really liked -

barely minutes after he learns that Mutt is, indeed, his son, one of Indy's first reactions to Mutt's ideas is: "This is intolerable!".

It's kinda drowned in sound effects, but it's there.

Didn't that line actually appear just before he and Marion got

stuck in the quicksand?

Did it? So he was being an old grouch, even if it was a reaction to Mutt's plan.

It did. I remember chuckling at it. Right after the camp escape and just before the quicksand. It was followed quickly by another line though.

[Luke Skywalker 1,793]

By the way, I hope the Pancho Villa story isn't a reference to the Young Indy TV show.

Lose your hope. It is.

That renders Joe's comment 'If it doesnt appear in the films its not canon' false.

[Elmo Lewis 6]

By the way, I hope the Pancho Villa story isn't a reference to the Young Indy TV show.

Lose your hope. It is.

Yeah, I don't know what I was thinking.

[tpigeon 3]

I liked the film a lot. There is definitely a different feel to it --perhaps due to the shortened shot lengths-- but I found it to be in the Indy tradition nonetheless. Surprisingly, it was the action that disappointed me most. I was very disappointed with the jungle chase. As many have said, there is just too much happening, and not enough interesting things happening. Still though, there were inspired moments abound in that nine minutes. They just weren't cohesively strung together. I'm looking forward to seeing it again to get a better sense of what's actually happening. One of my favorite shots of the movie was when the boat fell out of the tree, taking a few Russians with it. A nice, little moment.

The movie has its fair share of questionable elements, but the more I've thought back on the film, I realize that it was an airy, fun two hours made in the Indy tradition. The script wasn't excellent, and the filmmakers treat it more like a reunion than a fresh new story. If there was any depression that sunk in, it was that I realized Steven Spielberg has moved on from these kinds of movies. He's still enthusiastic about it, but he couldn't cover up the fact that this just isn't his bag anymore. That said, it's more of a fun riff than a true Indiana Jones experience.

Ted