The 2nd OFFICIAL Indy IV Score Thread

[MattyO 62]

I've listened closely to the whole album and as I knew I would I absolutely love it. Whilst it's too early to really label it as "the best Indy score" or "the best score for Williams in the new millennium", etc, I will say, for me it is certainly the most fun Williams seems to have had in a long time. Definitely a five star score.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Anyone else notice track 13 sounds just like "The Intersection Scene" from War of the Worlds?

[Henry B 50]

I'm really conflicted about the final minute of "Finale." I love the horn/trumpet counterpoint, but the very end of the piece sounds like The Patriot or something. I don't know. I'm sort of alarmed that Williams had the gall to do this to his own composition.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

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[TIEfighter 0]

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[Humpty Dumpty 0]

What does bother me, however, is his penchant for copying others. Take, for example, the disturbing similarity between the Superman love theme and one of the main themes in Richard Strauss' Death and Transfiguration. He really needs to refrain from doing stuff like that; it's absolutely unnecessary and makes me and others feel a bit ashamed of him.

you know,we don't care. It only bothers snotty classical elitist

So believing plagiarism to be bad is "elitist"? I've never heard that defense before. I would think it's just a basic part of human morality to find fault in someone artistically profiting off of the work of others. What makes me most upset about these instances of plagiarism is that they are completely uncalled for; John is clearly a skilled-enough composer to do without them.

[Ollie 1,059]

That argument is tiring.

[Toontje 0]

Anyone one else noticed the statement of the crystal skull theme in the end of departure. It's the last few notes before it comes to an end.

SPOILERS BELOW (speculation)

Could the temple be a UFO and go up in the air at the end. That's a persistent rumour but this track, I can just imagine a scene like that with the music, even not gimmicky. If that would be true it's awesome! The track ending reminded me of it. Like at first they are running away from the temple and indy gets stuck but gets helped by mutt (just like papa jones helped him out in LC)(Darker statement of the raiders march in the departure) and when they are safe they look back and the whole temple goes up (The music in the last minute of the departure would work perfect for that!)

[JoeinAR 1,949]

some of the FOOLS here must honestly believe that John listens to classical music just so he can steal from it. He doesn't, mostly its just similarities that anal little twerps jump on and conclude that John is a plagerist.

[tpigeon 3]

This is a very good Williams effort; an all-around solid score. But I don't think it approaches real greatness, though. Maybe the full score does, I don't know. But based on these 77 minutes, I'd say this is a very good score, with nice themes, but the underscore and action writing are somewhat lacking. The Crystal Skull theme is fleshed out beautifully in the latter half, but the action material is nothing we haven't heard before, save for a few great moments in the Jungle Chase. Cues like The Snake Pit are a total bore, and Ants isn't much better (until the end).

I hate to say it, but the score seems too... active. It's frenetic in ways the previous scores were not. (Temple of Doom was, but that achieves a more swirling balletic effect.) When it's not doing the brooding thing with the Skull theme, it's trying to perform as many notes as possible. Mutt's theme and A Whirl Through Academe seem like those jovial Williams cues of old, but they're just too much, I think.

That is my initial impression. I'm not disappointed by the score, but I do not believe it to be among Williams' best in recent years. Azkaban and A.I. still hold those titles, by far.

Ted

[JoeinAR 1,949]

I'm waiting for the legitimate release, I don't do illegal downloads

[Jay 37,287]

It's not illegal to download it if you already own the CD...... so if you've already pre-ordered the CD on amazon say, and it just hasn't arrived yet.... it's not illegal either right?

WEBMASTER'S REPLY:

OF COURSE IT'S STILL 100% ILLEGAL.

[davros72 1]

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Overall, a very great score. Not JW's best by any means, but more fun than a lot of his have been lately. The returning themes appearing throughout brought a huge smile to my face when I heard them. Some of the new stuff is lots of fun, the Crystal Skull theme is a bit flat but serves its purpose, Irina's theme is well done and fun when sped up for the action cues (Jungle Chase). Love the end of the Finale, very interesting arrangement. So wonderful to hear Marion's theme back after all these years.

(There was one track, I'll have to listen again to figure out which one, where the horns sounded just a bit (but noticeably) sharp, which was unfortunate because that particular moment they were carrying the melody. It didn't sound horrible off pitch, just enough to be a bit irritating to this brass player.)

My conclusion: very enjoyable!

[Joe Brausam 214]

I'm sure there are definately quite a few highlights left from the cd. For instance, I can't imagine the Finale to be the first appearance of Marion's theme, I'd like to hear more of that!

This is definately one of those scores that it's dangerous to listen to before seeing the film. People are forming all sorts of opinions, especially about the style of the action cues. It's in a case like this where you really need to wait and see how they work in the film, becuase that's the only way that we'll truly be able to judge the quality of this score. What we have now is a nice preview, but that's all it should be to us. It's not a complete score, and it is out of the film's context. I'll judge the score on the 22nd.

[Humpty Dumpty 0]

some of the FOOLS here must honestly believe that John listens to classical music just so he can steal from it. He doesn't, mostly its just similarities that anal little twerps jump on and conclude that John is a plagerist.

You've probably never even heard Death and Transfiguration.

[Joe Brausam 214]

Death and Transfiguration resolves differently from the love thme though, and has a different progression. The only thing similat are those five notes (which if I remember correctly, the leap to the 5th note is a different interval than Williams').

Aside from that, The Planet Krypton was an intentional take on Also Sprach Zarathustra, at the request of the director. I think it's entirely possible that Donner may have wanted the Transfiguration theme in there somehow too.

Although I can see how it bothers you, I can hardly listen to one theme and not think of the other. It can be quite distracting.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

some of the FOOLS here must honestly believe that John listens to classical music just so he can steal from it. He doesn't, mostly its just similarities that anal little twerps jump on and conclude that John is a plagerist.

You've probably never even heard Death and Transfiguration.

whether I heard it or not isn't the point, you newbies who come here then spout your crap about John being a thief certainly don't ingratiate yourself very well. It might be similar it might be inspired by, hell do you even know if John has ever listened to it? Fact is you don't.

[publicist 4,643]

You've probably never even heard Death and Transfiguration.

I have. It's plagiarism by whose standards? Yours or what? The only composer Williams owes more than a dime is Prokoviev. At least for his scherzos.

[Ollie 1,059]

It doesn't bother me one bit and quite frankly I've heard most of the classical cues he's accused of borrowing from and the similarities are so small it's not even worth the time and effort.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

It doesn't bother me one bit and quite frankly I've heard most of the classical cues he's accused of borrowing from and the similarities are so small it's not even worth the time and effort.

oh my now your a facilitator in John's conspiratorial efforts to plagerise the entire spectrum of classical music.

[FattyMcButterpants 1]

Does anyone else think that some of the grand thematic statements were cut from the finale and used for the concert suites? Because as it is, the finale seems strangely devoid of thematic highlights.

[Ollie 1,059]

oh my now your a facilitator in John's conspiratorial efforts to plagerise the entire spectrum of classical music.

But seriously there is nothing to these weak arguments as far as I'm concerned.

[spielboy 0]

This is definately one of those scores that it's dangerous to listen to before seeing the film. People are forming all sorts of opinions, especially about the style of the action cues. It's in a case like this where you really need to wait and see how they work in the film,

come one, we do this with any score, but INDY must be different. Why?? Style of action cues is there, no matter how well it fits in the movie.

my overall opinion is that this is a try to return to RAIDERS (so all the reprising material), cause DOOM had a frenzier music much more fan to listen to (that was Williams at his adventurous peak) and CRUSADE more balletic moments and little themes to play with (Coronorado, Tank theme, Nazi theme...).

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

They could have cut a lot of that ominous and mysterious underscoring in favour of more thematic statements (assuming there were a lot cut out).

Do they go out of their way to make OSTs as bland and themeless as possible by editing out a whole lot of good material so as not let the album be too spoilerific before the movie is released??

[John Crichton 4]

Can I just say how nice it is to have a new Williams score to argue over after all this time?

EDIT- To Drax: I think they just try to get a "balance" between thematic, big cues and general underscore. It's the "listening experience" thing.

[Joe Brausam 214]

Well I do completely understand someone thinking that the Superman love theme is plagerized, the first five notes are incredibly similar to Strauss' piece. But the word plagiarism is just thrown around way to much. I always took it as something that Donner wanted Williams to do, which makes sense next to what Williams did for The Planet Krypton.

[Ollie 1,059]

I'm reviewing the music as a stand alone listen. If it works in the film that's fine but I listen to the music away from the film and do not associate it with it.

[Jacck 23]

If everyone is going to talk about plagiarism can you at least spell it properly.

[Ollie 1,059]

Indeed.

[Joe Brausam 214]

This is definately one of those scores that it's dangerous to listen to before seeing the film. People are forming all sorts of opinions, especially about the style of the action cues. It's in a case like this where you really need to wait and see how they work in the film,

come one, we do this with any score, but INDY must be different. Why?? Style of action cues is there, no matter how well it fits in the movie.

my overall opinion is that this is a try to return to RAIDERS (so all the reprising material), cause DOOM had a frenzier music much more fan to listen to (that was Williams at his adventurous peak) and CRUSADE more balletic moments and little themes to play with (Coronorado, Tank theme, Nazi theme...).

Well yeah, you're right in that the style of the action cues is concrete - I'm not arguing that. I'm talking about the negative opinions of them. I've judged scores without seeing the movies before too - which is ignorance, no matter how you look at it. It's just that in this case I personally would like to see how those cues fit in the film before judging them. And for the record, I love this fun/busy style that he uses for them.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

using e instead of ia is the new accepted American spelling of the word.

[Jacck 23]

I've judged scores without seeing the movies before too - which is ignorance, no matter how you look at it.

How is it ignorance? Sure, it's ignorant to judge how it works as a film score without seeing the film, but it's perfectly valid to judge the score as a musical work in itself.

[FattyMcButterpants 1]

Do they go out of their way to make OSTs as bland and themeless as possible by editing out a whole lot of good material so as not let the album be too spoilerific before the movie is released??

That's not what I meant. I meant that they could have removed, for instance, a clear statement of the Skull theme and used it for the concert suite earlier on the album.

[Joe Brausam 214]

I've judged scores without seeing the movies before too - which is ignorance, no matter how you look at it.

How is it ignorance? Sure, it's ignorant to judge how it works as a film score without seeing the film, but it's perfectly valid to judge the score as a musical work in itself.

It's just my personal opinion. I personally think that it's fine to judge a score on a purely musical level - but in the end I'm only deciding on whether it's good or bad music. I'd have to hear it in context to decide whether I think it's a good or a bad score. Again, that's just a personal thing for me though.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

well on that note there are 3 valid points of view, the cd as a work all itself, the cd as a expression of the score in the film, and then there is the score in the film itself. You can judge all 3 as a whole and each as a separate entity.

Opinions may well change upon viewing the film, and overtime.

There are many of us who didn't like the score the the Lost World, but have discoved its beauty overtime, often separate from the film in this case simply because we avoid the film.

now the task is to view this score first, then add the film into the equation over the next few weeks.

[FattyMcButterpants 1]

I don't care what the film is like - this is a fantastic score, and the film can only add to it.

[Humpty Dumpty 0]

Death and Transfiguration resolves differently from the love thme though, and has a different progression. The only thing similat are those five notes (which if I remember correctly, the leap to the 5th note is a different interval than Williams').

Aside from that, The Planet Krypton was an intentional take on Also Sprach Zarathustra, at the request of the director. I think it's entirely possible that Donner may have wanted the Transfiguration theme in there somehow too.

Although I can see how it bothers you, I can hardly listen to one theme and not think of the other. It can be quite distracting.

The chord progression is the same on those five notes (C major to D major seventh; it can also be defined as C major to D major with a C pedal). There is a slight difference in the five notes in that Williams just forms the beginning of the melody out of an arpeggiation, whereas Strauss uses a passing tone to connect the tonic and the third degree (and the third and fifth in the accompanying line below the main melody), but the basic shape is clearly derived from Strauss. That's definitely plagiarism. I don't think Donner requested this as Death and Transfiguration has nothing to do with flying around New York/Metropolis.

On the other hand, I always saw Krypton more as an homage to Zarathustra than as a steal, so I'm okay with that. However, there is a passage in the music in the Phantom Zone scene that was quite obviously lifted from the initial buildup in Alpine Symphony.

some of the FOOLS here must honestly believe that John listens to classical music just so he can steal from it. He doesn't, mostly its just similarities that anal little twerps jump on and conclude that John is a plagerist.

You've probably never even heard Death and Transfiguration.

whether I heard it or not isn't the point, you newbies who come here then spout your crap about John being a thief certainly don't ingratiate yourself very well. It might be similar it might be inspired by, hell do you even know if John has ever listened to it? Fact is you don't.

Of course John Williams knows Death and Transfiguration. That's sort of like asking if a painter knows the Mona Lisa. Please stop being so insulting. You are only revealing your own ignorance.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

I am ignorant of the music, no doubt, like that matters one bit, but you're the one being an asshole here attacking John's integrity, why don't you go fall off the wall now, its obvious that all the King(Mark)'s horses and all the King's men, wont even try to put you back together again.

You really do come across as an elitist snob who thinks he knows the mind and soul of JW, but doesnt.

[Luke Skywalker 1,792]

I don't think Donner requested this as Death and Transfiguration has nothing to do with flying around New York/Metropolis.

Why would Williams use it then?

[Romão 2,274]

I too am musically uneducated, and I agree there some melodic similarities with Death and Transfiguration, but afther those 4 or 5 notes, Williams piece simply takes off and is absolutely glorious. I don't think you dismiss that piece so easily. He did things from that startpoint with 4 or 5 notes and reached levels that Strauss, IMVHO, did not.

[Morlock 11]

The chord progression is the same on those five notes (C major to D major seventh; it can also be defined as C major to D major with a C pedal). There is a slight difference in the five notes in that Williams just forms the beginning of the melody out of an arpeggiation, whereas Strauss uses a passing tone to connect the tonic and the third degree (and the third and fifth in the accompanying line below the main melody), but the basic shape is clearly derived from Strauss. That's definitely plagiarism. I don't think Donner requested this as Death and Transfiguration has nothing to do with flying around New York/Metropolis.

The shape of the first 5 notes are, to my ears, clearly derived from Strauss at some level. But writing the entire effort off as plagarism is, in my eyes, quite unfair. How Williams uses those five notes, and expands upon them, to create something that is his own. In context, the five notes do not sound nearly as similar as they do when taken alone. Yes, Williams uses them as a starting point. But he expands upon it, adds phrases, orchestrates them in his own manner...I'm not saying it's not dissappointing, at some level, that JW uses something someone else wrote in a score. It is. But what he does with it is so much more than 'a Strauss rip' gives it credit for.

[Humpty Dumpty 0]

I am ignorant of the music, no doubt, like that matters one bit, but you're the one being an asshole here attacking John's integrity, why don't you go fall off the wall now, its obvious that all the King(Mark)'s horses and all the King's men, wont even try to put you back together again.

You really do come across as an elitist snob who thinks he knows the mind and soul of JW, but doesnt.

Raising issues of plagiarism is a legitimate form of critique. There's nothing "elitist" or "snobbish" about it, and there is no knowledge of John Williams' "soul" required to make these criticisms. If you can't tolerate that John Williams isn't perfect, then that's your problem.

I too am musically uneducated, and I agree there some melodic similarities with Death and Transfiguration, but afther those 4 or 5 notes, Williams piece simply takes off and is absolutely glorious. I don't think you dismiss that piece so easily. He did things from that startpoint with 4 or 5 notes and reached levels that Strauss, IMVHO, did not.

The chord progression is the same on those five notes (C major to D major seventh; it can also be defined as C major to D major with a C pedal). There is a slight difference in the five notes in that Williams just forms the beginning of the melody out of an arpeggiation, whereas Strauss uses a passing tone to connect the tonic and the third degree (and the third and fifth in the accompanying line below the main melody), but the basic shape is clearly derived from Strauss. That's definitely plagiarism. I don't think Donner requested this as Death and Transfiguration has nothing to do with flying around New York/Metropolis.

The shape of the first 5 notes are, to my ears, clearly derived from Strauss at some level. But writing the entire effort off as plagarism is, in my eyes, quite unfair. How Williams uses those five notes, and expands upon them, to create something that is his own. In context, the five notes do not sound nearly as similar as they do when taken alone. Yes, Williams uses them as a starting point. But he expands upon it, adds phrases, orchestrates them in his own manner...I'm not saying it's not dissappointing, at some level, that JW uses something someone else wrote in a score. It is. But what he does with it is so much more than 'a Strauss rip' gives it credit for.

John is absolutely a talented guy and can take the D&T theme in new directions, but that's exactly why I'm so upset he steals in the first place: He's good enough to write great music on his own without having to take from others. It's not exactly accurate, however, to say he took only 5 notes because the whole cue uses those notes as its main theme and has those notes interwoven around all the other material.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

why don't you just give it up, or go away. this arguement has been heard before and you're just the latest inline to take up the cause.

[Quintus 5,399]

The word 'Steals' and 'John Williams' in the same sentence is a sure fire way to wind people up around here.

And for good reason. Steal is a strong word.

It is also the wrong word to use full stop where JW is concerned. Don't be surprised by the backlash you clearly welcome.

[steb74 53]

It's not exactly accurate, however, to say he took only 5 notes because the whole cue uses those notes as its main theme and has those notes interwoven around all the other material.

It's not exactly accurate either to call it stealing.

I'm sure you have a good knowledge of centuries worth of classical/orchestral/symphonic/ whatever music.

So you should be the first to know or admit that JW is way down the ladder regarding composers who 'steal'.

It just seems to be overlooked or ignored a little more in the concert world.

Do I think what you're talking about is valid, are the pieces similar? Of course they are.

I'm sorry though, for me at least it certainly isn't theft - chord tones for crying out loud, does writing get any more basic?

I do think you are being a little unfair and picky.

[drwynn 0]

some of the FOOLS here must honestly believe that John listens to classical music just so he can steal from it. He doesn't, mostly its just similarities that anal little twerps jump on and conclude that John is a plagerist.

You've probably never even heard Death and Transfiguration.

First, let me start by apologizing for the length of this reply. But, as a thoroughly educated professional musician and John Williams enthusiast, this topic gets me quite agitated.

I've heard Death and Transfiguration. In fact, I've PERFORMED all of the greatest classical works you can ever possibly name; I've received some of the finest music education money can buy in that I have two degrees in Music Performance. One is from The Juilliard School, the other is from the Indiana University School of Music. I've been a professional timpanist/percussionist for nearly 15 years...and during my time at Indiana University, I studied Music Theory and Music History in every possible way, shape, and form. We studied every single minute detail of music you could ever think of and from every conceivable angle, viewpoint, and stance.

If you think, for one second, that John Williams is the first and only composer who has ever "borrowed" or "plagiarized" ideas, motifs, arrangements, orchestration, or any other possible musical term/idea from another composer "for profit", as you say...then, you SERIOUSLY need to go back and study your music history and theory a little more closely.

Nearly every single great composer/musician in music history owes a part of their greatness, no matter how big or small, to those who have come before them. The great classical composers of the true "classical" era (Beethoven, Mozart, Haydn) influenced each other to a great degree; some theorists even postulate that these greats even went so far as to “borrow” from each other as well. In fact, if you closely dissected much of classical music (which you seem to hold in such high regard) with the intent of doing so, you could find many instances of “plagiarism”...if you look hard enough.

And it’s not just the realm of classical music that gives us the chance to point our fingers and shout “UNORIGINAL” at the top of our lungs. The Beatles, whom many people (including myself) believe to be one of the greatest “pop” bands ever, were GREATLY influenced by The Beach Boys. In fact, many people would claim that The Beatles’ greatest album, “Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band”, owes much of its success to the Beach Boys’ “Pet Sounds” album.

Lastly, and also in the realm of “pop” music; one of the songs that Frank Sinatra was most famous for performing, “I Did It My Way”, sounds nearly identical in many sections to the Second Movement of Beethoven’s Piano Sonata No. 8 in c-minor, Op 33., “The Pathetique”.

As I said before, I studied at two of the finest music education institutions in the country...and I’ve encountered your “argument” and people who think as you do many, many times over. You certainly are entitled to your opinion, and, truth be told, there is some validity to your “claim”. Examples...certain sections of the score to “Star Wars: A New Hope” are so similar to Holst’s “The Planets” that it’s quite shocking. The scores to the first two “Home Alone” bear strikingly obvious similarity to Tchaikovsky’s “The Nutcracker”. The first six notes of Han Solo and Princess Leia’s Love Theme sound almost identical to the theme of the First Movement of Tchaikovsky’s Violin Concerto. And, finally, the melody of one of Williams’ newest themes (Irina Spalko’s theme) sounds like a direct tribute to one of Brahms’ most famous themes, from the Third Movement of his Third Symphony. Hell, even my favorite Williams theme of all time, "Indiana Jones' Theme", could be looked at as "borrowing" some of its ideas from Strauss' "Don Juan"; if I wanted to make that much of a stretch, I could. Also, I could go on all day citing examples, spouting facts, and referencing my wealth of musical education and knowledge of classical music like a snob...but, I won’t bore anyone any further with such patronizing nonsense.

Bottom line is this; all great (and often non-great) music is derivative in some way, shape, or form. It’s nearly impossible for any one composer to be so completely and entirely creative as you would like to have people believe. Perhaps the only two composers I can think of who could come close to being heralded as “entirely original” are Bach and Bartok. But, even they were derivative in some way, no matter how "small". If I had to name someone who as almost completely original in all of his works...I would have to name John Cage; but, I don't want to make anyone "in the know" roll their eyes and start scoffing.

Again, there is some merit in your argument...but, your “judgment” against Williams reminds me of the people I’ve encountered before who have made the same accusation. They haughtily (and sometimes vociferously) cry out about Williams’ “unoriginality”...and usually because he is successful and probably the closest thing we have to a modern-day classical composer who is well known in his time (much in the same way that Beethoven was in his; when Beethoven was alive...classical music was the “pop” music of its culture in many ways). But, to make this accusation against Williams and somehow make it seem like he owes all of his success to his “unoriginality” is completely ridiculous. If anything, it shows that he, like the great composers before him, is steeped in knowledge of music history and theory. He shows a profound and complete grasp of what, and more importantly, WHO has come before him. Like Beethoven, Mozart, and other great classical composers, he pays tribute to the people who have made his art and craft possible. He derives from the incredible works that have come before him because that is what nearly all great composers have done. If you think that it's "just a basic part of human morality to find fault in someone artistically profiting off of the work of others"...then, you should find fault in the majority of musicians who have been financially or artistically successful in the past; and this includes whatever classical composers you hold as "sacred" or "untouchable". Why? Because, as I said before, you can make the same claim against them. Perhaps their "borrowings" aren't as "obvious" as Williams...but, believe me, they're there; sometimes you have to look closely to find what you're looking for, and sometimes you don't. (Besides, what constitutes "plagiarism" to you appears to be "tributes" to others who are perhaps a little less critical or judgmental.)

If nothing else...think of Williams' "plagiarism" as a way of keeping the spirit and music of other great composers who came before him alive.

And if you think Williams is a “plagiarist”...try listening to some James Horner. Then you’ll know what “unoriginality” really sounds like. (I should clarify that this isn’t how I feel about Horner...but, it’s a great way to throw the wolves off of Williams.)

Also, Humpty Dumpty, please...don't take this as an open invitation to get into a "who knows more about music" debate...because I won't even respond if you try such a thing. I wasn't trying to "one up" you with this post...I was merely trying to demonstrate that it IS posible for a "real" musician who is educated in music to hear the same music you hear and take an entirely different stance on the matter. Thanks.

[Quintus 5,399]

*Begins a slow clap...*

*Sniffle*

*Wipes tear from eye...*

[MissPadmé 17]

John Williams isn't a thief.. people who say this are not very intelligent.. and believe to know a lot.

But also if you are educated in music you start to know more and more music and you hear similarities between classical music and John's

and in Indiana Jones there are many!!

But is that a bad thing, does it even matter... hell it's filmmusic, and it's great filmmusic!

Orchestral Filmmusic has to follow certain conventions.. and if John Williams sits down and thinks "Well for mutt I need something fast funny and energetic" he starts writing .. just follows his feelings and emotions.. thats what a composer does and it turns out to be a great composition and it is completely WILLIAMS BUT it sounds like Prokovief, because thats just the music I think of when writing fast and funny piecs with many runs etc. I don't think at a certain piece but i think of that feeling .. and of a certain style...

[drwynn 0]

*Begins a slow clap...*

*Sniffle*

*Wipes tear from eye...*

If that response is for me...and it's sincere...then, thank you.

I just got off the phone with my father (who is also a "clasically trained" musician/composer/pianist)...he and I were discussing the "claim" about Williams being a "plagiarist". He's not nearly the Williams fan I am; he does respect Williams, but he'd rather listen to Bartok or Beethoven before Williams, whereas I am the opposite. Anyways, when it comes to this claim, he always just laughs it off and makes the same assertion I did. To say Williams is a "plagiarist" is to call nearly every great composer in history the same.

[John Crichton 4]

So, how 'bout that Indy 4, huh? Nice to finally be able to listen to that, isn't it?