The 2nd OFFICIAL Indy IV Score Thread

[FattyMcButterpants 1]

I swear, the finale makes up for all the (existent or nonexistent) shortcomings of this score.

Seriously, are you familiar with the real life story of the crystal skulls? Of course there'll be plenty of extraterrestrial elements in the plot.

But then, I've read about things like these skulls all my life, so naturally many story elements that will be part of KOTCS don't seem as outlandish to me as it does to others.

The shot in one of the TV spots, with a plane flying over the area of the pampa around Nazca is almost like a dream coming true, that these things find their place in an Indy movie.

[Jacck 23]

OH MY GOD"!!!!!

THe new clips are soooo good.. I ACTUALLY did a bit of winky water in my pants!!!!!!!!!! zxxxxxxxxxx

[PaulSF 0]

:rocking back and forth:

...

Magnificent.

[Joe Brausam 214]

Couldn't commit to holding my thoughts. I love what Williams does with Indy's theme in The Adventures of Mutt, it's awesome! That whole track is a romp, love it!

Interesting stuff in Spell of the Skull...

[Trent B 337]

OH MY GOD"!!!!!

THe new clips are soooo good.. I ACTUAL<LY did a bit of winky water in my pants!!!!!!!!!! zxxxxxxxxxx

I'm sorry who are you?

[Jacck 23]

Seriously thoughl... These clips are AMAZING!! Oh my god... This score seounds AMAZING!!!!!!!

[King Mark 3,631]

Ah,excellent,soon I will place my thoughts based my own extrapolations of the legally available samples

[Jacck 23]

OH MY GOD"!!!!!

THe new clips are soooo good.. I ACTUAL<LY did a bit of winky water in my pants!!!!!!!!!! zxxxxxxxxxx

I'm sorry who are you?

And suddenly, Mr. Arrogant prorturdes through his bed pants to ruin all fun for all!

*rejoices*

[FattyMcButterpants 1]

The guy who missed 10 pages of illegal trading of links and unstoppable fanboy gushing

[Jacck 23]

Nice to enjoy life rather than obsessing over it in a "i have no life and never will" way, citin' if anything!!

[King Mark 3,631]

Track 1 :The Raiders March .This seems like a recording of exceptionnal sound quality ,but it brings nothing new to the table as we have heard this in countless recordings before. Same old arrangement that is closest to the Last Crusade one only more powerful sounding.

Track2:The Call of the Crystal . The cue starts with a low key mysterious motif and rapidly grows more ominous and densely orchestrated.After a false ending after a minute or so,another new motif on the clarinet starts which also grows into something more majestic and counterpointed with the initial Crystal motif and Full Bombast Williams and a kick ass ending.Oh my this is amazing.

Track 3 the Adventures of Mutt.A bouncy and playful track in the best Williams tradition .Features a new theme for Mutt with Indy's theme interpolated at several point

Irernas theme is pretty good,not quite as good as track 2

After that a few other whimsical action cues written in the old 80's style but that do not quite match the thematic unity of vintage Williams .While good,a bit of "magic" is missing here.

I'm up to Jungle Chase now.

[Bowie 45]

This is definitely the "sweet dessert" to Munich's "bitter herbs".

Congratulations Williams.

[Jacob 0]

Seriously, are you familiar with the real life story of the crystal skulls? Of course there'll be plenty of extraterrestrial elements in the plot.

I'm not sure if this was directed at me, but I agree. Certainly there are going to be extraterrestrial elements to the plot.

But I highly doubt any of the

characters will actually turn out to be aliens

. I think that would just be too much.

[odnurega1 0]

Listening currently! OMG. If I were ever to become a gushing fanboy, this would be the time.

Loving what I have heard so far! "Call of the Crystal" is brilliant!!! And, as for that spoiler...I saw it, and I wouldn't mind if that happened, but I would have loved to find out in the film and not here (yes, I know you were just speculating).

Thanks are in order, and you know who you are. Thank you.

Umm...JDan....may want to put that in spoilers! You'll get yelled at! lol.

[Romão 2,274]

People, please please don't discuss plot points in the score thread, and if you must, please use spoiler tags, even if it's just speculation

[RuBen_Kenobi 19]

Damn, I´m really enjoying it, sure it is a very funny listening! The sound quality is amazing, and the new stuff is great.

I´m at Jungle Chase, the first to get played twice, maybe it is not the big action scene we were waiting for, but it is cool (and don´t you feel that started at 2,30 it has a very "Olympic" feeling??)

[tpigeon 3]

The Jungle Chase is one of Williams' finest action cues.

Ted

[Bowie 45]

People, please please don't discuss plot points in the score thread, and if you must, please use spoiler tags, even if it's just speculation

I apologise for that little speculation point, guys, it's fixed now, but ... in my defense, would it not be a huge compliment for, and veneration of, our man Johnny, if we can figure out secret plot intricacies just from hearing what he does with his themes in the score prior to the film's release?

[Jacck 23]

ZOH MY GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THis is soooo feckin GOOOOD!!!

I can't wait to see the film

[Joe Brausam 214]

Jungle Chase really is an awesome cue! Not quite as cool for me as Desert Chase, but still very good!

Love the end of the Finale! Some people may not like it, but it's definatley interesting.

[Trent B 337]

ZOH MY GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THis is soooo feckin GOOOOD!!!

I can't wait to see the film

Quit talking emo it's annoying as hell.

[Bowie 45]

ZOH MY GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THis is soooo feckin GOOOOD!!!

I can't wait to see the film

Quit talking emo it's annoying as hell.

Please refrain from talking like an arrogant Yank, because I find it very annoying.

[Jacck 23]

Erm.. Firstly I live in the UK.. Secondly, am I not allowed to express my campness as freely as possible without being condemned and supresed into a state of vegetable-ness..

Jebus I'm just a fan of Williams who appreciates his sheer genius.. This score is amazing... Utterly mind blowing and the first listening is killing me.. Really.. JEBUS!

[tpigeon 3]

In the Finale, what's the music between Irina's theme and Mutt's theme? I can tell it's a Russian action motif, but I don't recall hearing that anywhere else in the score. Whatever it is, I like it.

Ted

[Jay 37,351]

Good score. I think it's a shame they wasted 5 minutes of the OST on the same old Raiders March we've known for 27 years, only slightly differently orchestrated. Then again, for all we know this release COULD contain the entire score... won't know till we see the movie (though I'd guess there's probably around a half hour of unreleased music or so)

Not sure what the think of the last minute of Finale... will take some getting used to. It's annoying that the d*m*n**d version cuts off the last few seconds of it.. hopefully the guy who ripped it will post a trackfix or a scene group will release a proper.

[Trent B 337]

Please refrain from talking like an arrogant Yank, because I find it very annoying.

[Bowie 45]

In the Finale, what's the music between Irina's theme and Mutt's theme? I can tell it's a Russian action motif, but I don't recall hearing that anywhere else in the score. Whatever it is, I like it.

Ted

Well it's heard in the fourth track, and also somewhere in Jungle Chase or something, can't quite remember.

[Jacck 23]

It sounds like a gorgoues and perfect blend of all Williams' styles over the years... It sounds like he's so inspired.. Constant momentum.. It sounds AMAZING!!! I can;t wait to see the film!1

[odnurega1 0]

I just finished listening to the entire thing. I loved it! I absolutely loved it! Admittedly, I enjoyed some parts more than others, though. Ironically, and to my surprise, my favorite cue is "Call of the Crsytal". It was my favorite cue in the previews, and now is my favorite on the album.

Heres the thing, though. I would like some input from those who have the soundtrack and have listened to it. Does it seem like JW has pulled a James Horner in that he has borrowed from himself quite a bit? We've had reports of War of the Worlds (Intersection Scene, which is not complete JW anyway...its Stravinsky) being used, I've heard some Minority Report, some Jurassic Park, a whole lotta Memoirs of a Geisha, and some of his work for the Olympics. I'm not really complaining (as I probably would if it were done by Horner---further explanation below), but it seems to happen a lot.

Overall, I loved it. I have only listened to it in full once, and will porbably listen to it again (a few times) tomorrow!

About John Williams and James Horner: It does not annoy me that John Williams has utilized self-ripoffs because he does not do it often. Hell, if this is the first time that he has done to this extent in his career of nearly 50 years, thats great! James Horner seems to be building and keeping his career going by doing this, which is why I find that I get annoyed by it.

OK, off to bed now. I am tired, and have to get up early. Enjoy listening to the score, all.

[scissorhands 16]

It's not borrowing, it's just the way he writes, his style, his fingerprint. And it happens to every composer.

[odnurega1 0]

Can the same be said for Horner, then? Not trying to argue, at all, just trying to understand the difference. I am trying to not be biased by the fact that I would go to my grave supporting Williams if he tried to pass off the Jaws theme in his new score for Deathly Hallows (hahaha....I wish he'd do that score).

[John Crichton 4]

This happens every time a new Williams score is released. "Oh this sounds like x, this sounds like y." Perfectly natural when there's so much body of work that's come before this, and the impression should go away with multiple listinings.

[Ollie 1,059]

That bastard copied Marian' theme and re-used it.

[John Crichton 4]

Hack! Next thing you'll be telling me he used the Raiders' march in another Indy score.

[odnurega1 0]

That bastard copied Marian' theme and re-used it.

I knew it! I just couldn't put my finger on it!

[scissorhands 16]

Can the same be said for Horner, then? Not trying to argue, at all, just trying to understand the difference. I am trying to not be biased by the fact that I would go to my grave supporting Williams if he tried to pass off the Jaws theme in his new score for Deathly Hallows (hahaha....I wish he'd do that score).

Once again in this forum I'll refer to this extraordinary interview with another serious composer, John Corigliano.

FJO: So what would you say are your stylistic signatures?

JC: There are certain harmonic progressions and certain kinds of leaps that I know that I've done many, many times. The way I became aware of all of this was because Leonardo Balada from Pittsburgh came into New York quite a few years ago and he wanted to meet me. He's a lovely man and a wonderful composer. We were talking about this whole thing and I said, "I don't believe in this whole style business. I don't feel I have one." And he said, "Oh, excuse me, you do. It's very recognizable." And I said, "What do you mean?" And he said, "Have you got a copy of the Fantasia on an Ostinato and of Etude Fantasy?" I said yes and I took them out. The Fantasia on an Ostinato was based on Beethoven's Seventh Symphony, the second movement [hums]. The whole piece is based on that, the major chord and then the minor chord, and that rhythm. Fourteen minutes in, there's a big climax in which the piano ripples and goes above and below with the left hand in major and minor thirds with a note in the middle in the right hand and then both hands and then finally just one hand. The Etude Fantasy was written as a large solo piano piece and the first movement was written for left hand alone. I wrote that first and used the material of that for all four movements. So it's based on the mechanism of how the left hand works. And there were exactly the same pitches and rhythms and textures in the two pieces: one derived from Beethoven and one derived from the left hand. I didn't know it. And I said, "My God, you're right. It's true!" I can show you.

FJO: And in the excerpts from the band piece you played for me, I heard ostinatos broken up with sudden bursts of sound which I hear in a lot of your pieces.

JC: It's full of that. But you can't control those. That's style. That's who you are. And you don't know it; somebody else tells you. But those are what make your music sound like you, the unconscious choices. Once he showed that to me, I found so many other things that I didn't realize because I wasn't concerned with those when I was writing. Musically those were the right notes. I had those notes because they were the right notes for Beethoven. I had those notes because they were the right notes for the left hand. I didn't know they were the same. And there it is.

FJO: And of course, those unconscious decisions are the things you can't study.

JC: Those are the things you can't calculate, and therefore, when you talk about style, there's the use of techniques and then there's the personal style that you have no control over. And so I use many techniques but what holds it together are two things for me. One is the style that I have in common with myself no matter what techniques there are. And the other is architecture. When you build a piece in which you need certain things that are very disparate but they have a reason for being there. When they happen, they sound surprising, but inevitable. It's what I love about Beethoven.

full interview and video here

[Miguel Andrade 1,263]

I just finished going through this one, and all I can say is that, for me, this is the first film score of interest since Munich.

And to come back to listening to contemporary film scoring with a 5-stars work is wonderful...

[Jay 37,351]

So I just had a strange thought while listening to The Spell of the Skull... does anybody else think this could be the music for the opening of the movie? It sounds like it could play under the Paramount logo and first few scenes for a little while... then it seems to jump to other music, though.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

So I just had a strange thought while listening to The Spell of the Skull... does anybody else think this could be the music for the opening of the movie? It sounds like it could play under the Paramount logo and first few scenes for a little while... then it seems to jump to other music, though.

Ding ding ding!

[Bowie 45]

So I just had a strange thought while listening to The Spell of the Skull... does anybody else think this could be the music for the opening of the movie? It sounds like it could play under the Paramount logo and first few scenes for a little while... then it seems to jump to other music, though.

I think "Snake Pit" is the opening, firstly because it comes after the three 'concert suites', and because it seems too early in the film and too joyous for it to be a significant plot moment... I suspect

Mutt is fooling around (similar to Indy's Very First Adventure), and the end is Indy helping rescue him or something... and getting angry at him or whatever...

...which opens up a private history lesson about the Ark, heard next in the "Spell of the Skull". The introduction of Irina's Theme here is probably a subtle exposition of "enemies" in general, Indy telling Mutt about those who will stop at nothing to get what they desire... and maybe we see a glimpse of Irina in this montage....

[King Mark 3,631]

So I just had a strange thought while listening to The Spell of the Skull... does anybody else think this could be the music for the opening of the movie? It sounds like it could play under the Paramount logo and first few scenes for a little while... then it seems to jump to other music, though.

I think so too.Maybe at the beginning of the movie the ark still is into play,then something else pops up

Continuing

Orelallanas Cradle is very TODish

Grave Robbers is very Jurassic Parkish

[Joe Brausam 214]

In the Finale, what's the music between Irina's theme and Mutt's theme? I can tell it's a Russian action motif, but I don't recall hearing that anywhere else in the score. Whatever it is, I like it.

Ted

Well it's heard in the fourth track, and also somewhere in Jungle Chase or something, can't quite remember.

I assume it's a Russian motif, but we'll see!

[Trent B 337]

The opening of Jungle Chase reminds me a bit of "Jango's Escape" with the xylophones.

[Jay 37,351]

I think the OST is slightly out of order... for one shouldn't A Whirl Through Acadame take place before Journey to Akator? (I haven't been reading spoilers or anything, but I'd assume Whirl is for the chase through Indy's college in Connecticut, which I'd imagine he'd be at at the beginning of the movie, before he starts journeying anywhere).

I really think the first 1:02 of Spell of the Skull is the opening scene of the movie... the rest of the track probably comes from another scene that has more to do with the Skull. Hopefully not too many tracks contain music from 2 different scenes...

[Jacob 0]

WOW. If I were wearing socks that finale would have blown them off.

But it cuts off. The last few seconds cut off!

[John Crichton 4]

I think the OST is slightly out of order...

No! Not on a Williams OST, surely?!

[Romão 2,274]

So now oficially the Ark theme is the only theme, besides Raiders March, that is featured in 3 scores.

[Ollie 1,059]

I think the OST is slightly out of order...

No! Not on a Williams OST, surely?!

Say it ain't so!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Humpty Dumpty 0]

I just finished listening to the entire thing. I loved it! I absolutely loved it! Admittedly, I enjoyed some parts more than others, though. Ironically, and to my surprise, my favorite cue is "Call of the Crsytal". It was my favorite cue in the previews, and now is my favorite on the album.

Heres the thing, though. I would like some input from those who have the soundtrack and have listened to it. Does it seem like JW has pulled a James Horner in that he has borrowed from himself quite a bit? We've had reports of War of the Worlds (Intersection Scene, which is not complete JW anyway...its Stravinsky) being used, I've heard some Minority Report, some Jurassic Park, a whole lotta Memoirs of a Geisha, and some of his work for the Olympics. I'm not really complaining (as I probably would if it were done by Horner---further explanation below), but it seems to happen a lot.

Overall, I loved it. I have only listened to it in full once, and will porbably listen to it again (a few times) tomorrow!

About John Williams and James Horner: It does not annoy me that John Williams has utilized self-ripoffs because he does not do it often. Hell, if this is the first time that he has done to this extent in his career of nearly 50 years, thats great! James Horner seems to be building and keeping his career going by doing this, which is why I find that I get annoyed by it.

OK, off to bed now. I am tired, and have to get up early. Enjoy listening to the score, all.

It doesn't bother me Williams might copy himself from time to time. What does bother me, however, is his penchant for copying others. Take, for example, the disturbing similarity between the Superman love theme and one of the main themes in Richard Strauss' Death and Transfiguration. He really needs to refrain from doing stuff like that; it's absolutely unnecessary and makes me and others feel a bit ashamed of him.

[Ollie 1,059]

Love the end of the Finale! Some people may not like it, but it's definatley interesting.

Sounds like he "reversed" the orchestrations.