Batman Begins vs. The Dark Knight

[Nick Parker 3,040]

"Batman Forever" has a certain "camp value" (is that the phrase?) to it, and I liked the two villains (for that aforementioned "camp value"), but I cannot say I liked it much. It is certainly is better than its sequel, however.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

In this universe, there's only one absolute... everything freezes!

[indy4 155]

I don't love any Batman film except for TDK. Burton's two films are okay/pretty good, BB was bad.

[crocodile 8,002]

In this universe, there's only one absolute... everything freezes!

Now that was on the worst films I've ever seen. It was already embarssing when I was 12! The fact that they released a dubbed version didn't help much. I can still hear it. I tried to re-watch it a couple of weeks ago. But I failed.

Karol - whose favourite old Batman was Batman Returns

[Delorean90 42]

Yeah, same here. I was surprised at how difficult to watch it was.

I don't love any Batman film except for TDK. Burton's two films are okay/pretty good, BB was bad.

No it wasn't. Why do you think BB is bad?

[Neimoidian 14]

In this universe, there's only one absolute... everything freezes!

Now that was on the worst films I've ever seen. It was already embarssing when I was 12! The fact that they released a dubbed version didn't help much. I can still hear it. I tried to re-watch it a couple of weeks ago. But I failed.

Karol - whose favourite old Batman was Batman Returns

I know what you felt... I cringed so much during it and in that age I seemed to really like many crappy movies (including Batman Forever).

[Romão 2,274]

Batman Returns has way too many wrong things about it to be considered a great movie. It does have lot of great stuff, but some things bring it down a few notches.

[arathornion33 0]

TDK, although Batman Begins was also an awesome movie. They both have very different "feels".

[Nick Parker 3,040]

I could not watch [movie title deleted for the sake of everybody] without laughing and vomiting simultaneously. I believe that that film is The Joker's true origin story.

[Henry B 50]

What?

[Morlock 11]

My thoughts exactly.

[indy4 155]

Yeah, same here. I was surprised at how difficult to watch it was.

I don't love any Batman film except for TDK. Burton's two films are okay/pretty good, BB was bad.

No it wasn't. Why do you think BB is bad?

From what I remember, the film had major pacing issues. None of the characters engaged me that much, and the action scenes were not very exciting (or understandable).

[RuBen_Kenobi 19]

Both films get worse on repeat viewings, and while two weeks ago I'd say TDK was clearly superior, now (and 2 further viewings later) I'd say its TDK by a hair's breadth, and even then its just because of Joker.

I completely disagree. The first time I watched BB I like it, but not loved it. Since that, I have watched it 4 or 5 times more and I like it more and more on each viewing and suddenly fell in love with it. Before saw TDK, BB was my favourite superheroe movie and one of my favourites of all time. I think it is a very good movie in all aspects (story, acting, directing, cinematography... and music). Yes, altought I love John Williams, and he is without doubt my favourite composer and Superman the movie is untouchable as a score, I DO LIKE Zimmer´s and Howard´s job in these Batman movies. I think it works great, and I really enjoy listening it.

So BB, was my favourite superheroe movie until yesterday, when I saw TDK. Now I have seen it two times (and in spanish, I´m sure in english the Joker is a lot of better, but the dubbing is not bad) and I can say, that not only is the best superheroe movie I have seen, it is also a very good movie as a drama, or a criminal story, at the level of Heat, The Untocuhables or The Departed for example. BB is great, but TDK is the ESB of this saga. It is bigger, darker, more emotional... and it ends "bad". It needs a third one. I can´t wait for it, altought I seriously doubt it will be better than TDK, because this movie is almost perfect to me.

Yeah, same here. I was surprised at how difficult to watch it was.

I don't love any Batman film except for TDK. Burton's two films are okay/pretty good, BB was bad.

No it wasn't. Why do you think BB is bad?

From what I remember, the film had major pacing issues. None of the characters engaged me that much, and the action scenes were not very exciting (or understandable).

Batman Begins and bad can´t go in the same sentence.

Bruce Wayne? (for the really first time we understand why a rich man becomes into the Batman), Alfred? (a great man, a great friend, a great father, that brings you into tears when he hug the little Bruce), Jim Gordon? (not a old and fat man like in the Burton films, but a great man figthing against the bads and the corrupt police), Ra az Gul and the Scarecrow? (two good and realist villians)

I understand the thing about the understable action. I think it works at the begining, with the first aparitions of Batman (you like the bad guys don´t see from where he is coming), but at the end of the movie it annoys little bit. That doesn´t happen in TDK, where you can see Batman hiting hard very clearly.

[Delorean90 42]

Yeah, same here. I was surprised at how difficult to watch it was.

I don't love any Batman film except for TDK. Burton's two films are okay/pretty good, BB was bad.

No it wasn't. Why do you think BB is bad?

From what I remember, the film had major pacing issues. None of the characters engaged me that much, and the action scenes were not very exciting (or understandable).

From what you remember? Seriously, I'd check it out again if I were you. I loved it the first time I saw it, but the way the flashbacks and all that worked and the pacing all made more sense after seeing it again. As far as the action scenes not being exciting, well...I can't say that the score really helped it all that much, but for not having a complementary score, I'd say they do a pretty good job. It's a testament to the film's quality that it's able to work so well with a merely functional score. Definitely give it another shot; it may click for you (but you're indy4, so maybe it won't ).

[indy4 155]

Definitely give it another shot; it may click for you (but you're indy4, so maybe it won't ).

What's that supposed to mean?

[Bryant Burnette 654]

Well, I'm glad to see that there does seem to be some love for Batman Begins around here, after all. I was starting to think I was crazy for thinking it was one of the best superhero movies ever made.

[Delorean90 42]

Yeah, sometimes I feel like I step into the Twilight Zone when I log on here lately. First Batman Begins gets ripped to shreds (it is indeed one of the greatest superhero films ever), and then I find out that Burton's Batman films are horrible, in the same league as the Schumacher films, and that Elfman's scores were boring or subpar? Yikes!

[Nick Parker 3,040]

Burton and Schumacher are in entirely different leagues (Michael Keaton is Batman!). Do not compare them. The same can be said of Elfman and Goldenthal.

[Bryant Burnette 654]

Burton and Schumacher are in entirely different leagues (Michael Keaton is Batman!). Do not compare them. The same can be said of Elfman and Goldenthal.

I at least like Goldenthal's Batman scores -- that's more than I can say for Schumacher's Batman movies.

For years, though (until Batman Begins came out), I would always truthfully tell people that my favorite Batman movie was Batman: Mask of the Phantasm. That's a gem of a movie. And I love the score, too.

Now, of course, my favorite Batman movie is The Dark Knight, and it's liable to stay that way for a while.

[Delorean90 42]

Burton and Schumacher are in entirely different leagues (Michael Keaton is Batman!). Do not compare them. The same can be said of Elfman and Goldenthal.

I'm not saying Burton and Schumacher are in the same league--I'm saying other people have either said or implied such things, and it boggles my mind.

Bryant, I definitely agree that Elfman and Goldenthal both gave solid scores, pretty much nailing what they had to work with. Goldenthal had that over the top stuff going on, so he just went all out and made a couple of great scores. I think they're great.

Also, Mask of the Phantasm is indeed terrific, and it's very hard for me to judge right now. I would say the top three Batman films would be MOTP, BB, and TDK (in an undetermined order). The Burton Batman films and the Adam West film are both successful in certain ways, and so I appreciate them all, but the three I picked for the top honors are the closest to the character's essence, while still being great films overall.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

I am sorry if the above comment read like an accusation to you, Delorean90. I was only making a statement. You have my apologies.

[Delorean90 42]

Oh, no offense taken.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

For years, though (until Batman Begins came out), I would always truthfully tell people that my favorite Batman movie was Batman: Mask of the Phantasm. That's a gem of a movie. And I love the score, too.

Now, of course, my favorite Batman movie is The Dark Knight, and it's liable to stay that way for a while.

I'm the same. I think MOTP has the best score of a Batflick though.

I don't consider Burton's flicks on the same level as Schumacher's, but I just fell out of love with them a long time ago (same with the scores). Schumacher's... well, I love FOREVER's score. And Drew Barrymore in lingerie.

[Bryant Burnette 654]

For years, though (until Batman Begins came out), I would always truthfully tell people that my favorite Batman movie was Batman: Mask of the Phantasm. That's a gem of a movie. And I love the score, too.

Now, of course, my favorite Batman movie is The Dark Knight, and it's liable to stay that way for a while.

I'm the same. I think MOTP has the best score of a Batflick though.

I don't consider Burton's flicks on the same level as Schumacher's, but I just fell out of love with them a long time ago (same with the scores). Schumacher's... well, I love FOREVER's score. And Drew Barrymore in lingerie.

I despise both Batman Forever and Batman and Robin (though both films have elemnts that I enjoy on their own), but I will say this in Joel Schumacher's defense, because somebody needs to: I think he gave Warner Bros. exactly what they were looking for with those sequels.

After Batman Returns' perversity and poor (sometimes outraged) reception, the studio realized that their cash cow's udders were being misused, so I would imagine that they dumped Burton and hired Schumacher with the demand being that he create a more kid-friendly, cartoony film. And he did exactly that. Batman Forever is a piece of garbage, but it was popular; it made more money than Batman Returns made and was widely seen at the time as the salvation of the series.

So, of course, the next movie was the same thing, only more so. More cartoony, more kid-friendly, with even more action-figurable characters and doodads. Only this time, the public ate their meal and promptly threw it right back up onto the carpet when they realized it had gone quite bad. Hence, no more movies for a while. But if Batman and Robin -- not an especially worse film than Batman Forever -- had made more money, we'd probably have gotten another one in the same vein.

Obviously, this is Schumacher's fault in some ways, but all signs indicate that he was doing exactly what his bosses asked him to do. So really, he's only guilty of being an effective employee, something most of us presumably aspire to. Don't take this as a defense of the man's movies, but I think his name gets an overly bad thrashing, while we should really be lashing out at whoever it was who figured that was the right road to go down with the series. I don't think Schumacher was that guy; he was just the guy driving the car.

[Romão 2,274]

Goldenthal would actually be a fantastic choice for a movie like TDK.

[Red 75]

I'm the same. I think MOTP has the best score of a Batflick though.

That's debatable with the several great bat-scores that have been written, but I may have to agree with that. It is (in a way) the example of what a Batman score should be, as is the movie.