Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire

[Hlao-roo 389]

Delerue died in 1992, well before the MC/RC take-over.

Why was he thrown off Regarding Henry?

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Sure, it's a business, it's a dog-eat-dog world, but why does the MV/RC sound have to be the dominant aesthetic?

That's what producers and directors want.

[Hlao-roo 389]

Sure, it's a business, it's a dog-eat-dog world, but why does the MV/RC sound have to be the dominant aesthetic?

That's what producers and directors want.

The customer is always right.

[Neimoidian 14]

Sure, it's a business, it's a dog-eat-dog world, but why does the MV/RC sound have to be the dominant aesthetic?

That's what producers and directors want.

They want it, beacause they have little taste of music or are too lazy to take the risk with the real artists. An inflation of talent has taken place, beacuse the market has been seriously weakened by the massive supply of low-quality composers and this is what Zimmer is mostly responsible for.

[Josh500 1,615]

I'm not quite sure what this "inherent mystical loneliness" of which you speak is, but those are words I would use to characterize "A Window to the Past," for sure.

I think we have a misunderstanding. I was not referring to literal solo woodwinds that give you sense of isolation, but rather an intangible quality to the score that's within its architecture. It is a very cold score. "A Window to the Past" is lonely, yes, but it is also very warm.

GoF is a cold score in the sense that it leaves me a bit "cold."

But PoA is definitely a "colder" score (meaning more lonely, isolated, mythical) than the first 2. If it is also warm, it's because we can relate to the emotions expressed within the score so well.

Well, he did score Lost World.

I love The Lost World... it's not a bad score by any means.

The movie could have been better, but it's not bad, either. It just does its job.

[Neimoidian 14]

Well, he did score Lost World.

I love The Lost World... it's not a bad score by any means.

The movie could have been better, but it's not bad, either. It just does its job.

The Lost World is a terrific action score. I prefer it to the original.

[Josh500 1,615]

Well, he did score Lost World.

I love The Lost World... it's not a bad score by any means.

The movie could have been better, but it's not bad, either. It just does its job.

The Lost World is a terrific action score. I prefer it to the original.

I think Incident on Islar Nubar and T-Rex Rescue and Finale still beat the crap out of anything on The Lost World, but yeah... it is terrific.

[Neimoidian 14]

Well, he did score Lost World.

I love The Lost World... it's not a bad score by any means.

The movie could have been better, but it's not bad, either. It just does its job.

The Lost World is a terrific action score. I prefer it to the original.

I think Incident on Islar Nubar and T-Rex Rescue and Finale still beat the crap out of anything on The Lost World, but yeah... it is terrific.

I like Incident, but dislike T-Rex Rescue. One of the main problems I have with Jurassic Park is that I really don't like its action music. It's too loud and chaotic for me, nothing there (action-wise) stands up to tracks like The Hunt, Rescuing Sarah, Raptor's Attack or Visitor in San Diego.

[Josh500 1,615]

I like Incident, but dislike T-Rex Rescue. One of the main problems I have with Jurassic Park is that I really don't like its action music. It's too loud and chaotic for me, nothing there (action-wise)

Don't agree.

But then tastes differ.

[Marian Schedenig 8,191]

That's the first time I've heard a Doyle score referred to as "cold."

Hamlet is as chilly as an ancient castle in winter.

[MSM 126]

I like Incident, but dislike T-Rex Rescue. One of the main problems I have with Jurassic Park is that I really don't like its action music. It's too loud and chaotic for me, nothing there (action-wise)

Don't agree.

I agree.

[Romão 2,274]

T-Rex is one of the greatest action tracks JW has ever written.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

That's the first time I've heard a Doyle score referred to as "cold."

Hamlet is as chilly as an ancient castle in winter.

Nice analogy.

I like Patrick Doyle, his Branagh stuff is excellent.

[Neimoidian 14]

T-Rex is one of the greatest action tracks JW has ever written.

I could name dozens of better tracks, but then again, as I said before, I never liked JP action music.

[Henry B 50]

I never liked Jurassic Park, well, much at all. The "Journey to the Island" fanfare is nice and heroic, and some of the action music is good, but I can't stand that main theme hymn. Just can't stand it.

[Neimoidian 14]

I never liked Jurassic Park, well, much at all. The "Journey to the Island" fanfare is nice and heroic, and some of the action music is good, but I can't stand that main theme hymn. Just can't stand it.

I love it every time I start listening to JP, but cease to like it by the end of cd, becuse at that moment I already feel so tired of it...

[Henry B 50]

Yeah. It's a little boring and dry, I feel. But The Lost World is amazing!

[Neimoidian 14]

Yeah. It's a little boring and dry, I feel. But The Lost World is amazing!

As far as the JP theme is concerned, I can't help, but feel shivers when it comes in on bells during Visitor in San Diego track.

[Henry B 50]

Oh my goodness, I feel exactly the same way.

The thing I like about the Island fanfare in The Lost World is that it's treated completely differently. No longer a heroic theme for the good guys, it represents what a tragedy the original Isla Nublar experiment was and how foolish people were to clone dinosaurs. The use of this theme by Williams and Spielberg is very intelligent. That bit in "Visitor in San Diego" is the one slim ray of hope left in the theme.

The only big problem with the score is that the ridiculous bit with Hammond at the end of the film forced Williams to reprise the plaintive piano hymn, which creates a disappointing finale.

[MSM 126]

I never liked Jurassic Park, well, much at all. The "Journey to the Island" fanfare is nice and heroic, and some of the action music is good, but I can't stand that main theme hymn. Just can't stand it.

Are you revolting again or are you serious this time? I mean you really dislike the JP main theme?

[Henry B 50]

I am serious. I don't hate the theme or anything, but it rubs me the wrong way.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

Is is the theme's inappropriateness (or at least, your perception of its inappropriateness) in the context of the film what you don't like, or the actual music itself?

[Nick Parker 3,040]

Though I do not agree with your opinions on "Jurassic Park", Henry, I certainly agree with your views on "The Lost World: Jurassic Park". But I thought its awesome statement in "Visitor in San Diego" was because Malcom and Harding were driving through that San Diego Jurassic Park....

[Red 75]

I'm not a huge fan of Jurassic Park, but I'll admit the main theme is moving.

[Henry B 50]

Is is the theme's inappropriateness (or at least, your perception of its inappropriateness) in the context of the film what you don't like, or the actual music itself?

One lends itself to the other, I suppose. It's certainly a well written piece, but it seems misguided, and I'm sure Spielberg is really to blame. It sounds calm, comforting and reassuring... it wouldn't be out of place at a college graduation ceremony. Hmm, I bet it is played at graduations!

I guess my musical criticism is that it's essentially a pedal point on the tonic. More development and contrast would have been nice.

[John Crichton 4]

The main JP theme is OK. The island fanfare is the only part of the score I'd call truly great.

[indy4 155]

can that guy sound anymore pretentious? GoF is the worst movie of the series .Oh well this director got the boot after one movie

And the worst score!

This is upseting. Jaws 2 and Jaws are both very different scores, he clearly doesn't know what he's talking about. And to say that JW didn't "move on..." compare CoS score to PoA...they couldn't be more different!

All this time I thought that JW left because couldn't score both Geisha and GoF...can't believe it.

[FattyMcButterpants 1]

And a little note to that brain: a film series needs musical continuity. Pea brain.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

Yeah. Though I like what Doyle did with Hedwig's theme, Newell made it sound like he begrudgingly used it at the command of studio execs, and even then went to great lengths to make it sound as different as possible. Kind of a weird attitude.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Even George Martin used the James Bond theme!

[Henry B 50]

Yeah. Though I like what Doyle did with Hedwig's theme, Newell made it sound like he begrudgingly used it at the command of studio execs, and even then went to great lengths to make it sound as different as possible. Kind of a weird attitude.

I agree, it sounds good. If Doyle and Newell were trying to disrespect Williams by warping the theme as much as possible, it didn't show.

[mahler3 478]

Some of you have already heard this, but if you want to have a listen to my interview with Doyle last year then click on the link below.

The Harry Potter segment is 8mins in and I can assure you (as you will also hear) there's no anamosity between Williams & Doyle whatsoever.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/5tvyxh

Newell's comments are ignorant yes but perhaps we are reading too much into it, Tommy was quick to defend by stating Williams talent and Newell agreed.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,511]

can that guy sound anymore pretentious? GoF is the worst movie of the series .Oh well this director got the boot after one movie

Not true; Newell was offered "Order of the Phoenix", but turned it down.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

Anyone considered that maybe Newell is just bitter John Williams ditched him for Geisha?

[Ollie 1,059]

I posted that earlier but no one wants to admit that Williams had no intention of scoring GOF. He was going to score Geisha no matter what.

If Williams truly wanted to score GOF, he would have. I'm pretty sure if his agents told them he would like to return, Warner Bros would have laid out the red carpet.

[John Crichton 4]

Yeah. Though I like what Doyle did with Hedwig's theme, Newell made it sound like he begrudgingly used it at the command of studio execs, and even then went to great lengths to make it sound as different as possible. Kind of a weird attitude.

I agree, it sounds good. If Doyle and Newell were trying to disrespect Williams by warping the theme as much as possible, it didn't show.

The bookend statements for the opening and closing titles sound really good, the in film statements...less so.

[MSM 126]

I posted that earlier but no one wants to admit that Williams had no intention of scoring GOF. He was going to score Geisha no matter what.

If Williams truly wanted to score GOF, he would have. I'm pretty sure if his agents told them he would like to return, Warner Bros would have laid out the red carpet.

Then why didn't he come back for OotP? I think the studio and the producers have all the power, even if it is about JW.

[Luke Skywalker 1,794]

OH my god how many badmouthing about the gorgeus score from Jurassic Park.

I'm shocked.

[Ollie 1,059]

I posted that earlier but no one wants to admit that Williams had no intention of scoring GOF. He was going to score Geisha no matter what.

If Williams truly wanted to score GOF, he would have. I'm pretty sure if his agents told them he would like to return, Warner Bros would have laid out the red carpet.

Then why didn't he come back for OotP? I think the studio and the producers have all the power, even if it is about JW.

Probably because he didn't want to return. With the exception of a few projects he doesn't go throwing his weight around demanding to score films. I think he's moved on from HP.

He wasn't going to score GOF because it would interfere with Geisha, which he really wanted to score.

It's been mentioned by people in the business that Warner Bros went out of their way to get him on COS & POA.

So if Williams told them up front he wasn't going to return then it makes sense that Newell would turn to someone he wanted, the same with Yates and Hooper.

[MSM 126]

OH my god how many badmouthing about the gorgeus score from Jurassic Park.

I'm shocked.

I don't really see the problem with the score either

I posted that earlier but no one wants to admit that Williams had no intention of scoring GOF. He was going to score Geisha no matter what.

If Williams truly wanted to score GOF, he would have. I'm pretty sure if his agents told them he would like to return, Warner Bros would have laid out the red carpet.

Then why didn't he come back for OotP? I think the studio and the producers have all the power, even if it is about JW.

Probably because he didn't want to return. With the exception of a few projects he doesn't go throwing his weight around demanding to score films. I think he's moved on from HP.

He wasn't going to score GOF because it would interfere with Geisha, which he really wanted to score.

It's been mentioned by people in the business that Warner Bros went out of their way to get him on COS & POA.

So if Williams told them up front he wasn't going to return then it makes sense that Newell would turn to someone he wanted, the same with Yates and Hooper.

So if Williams wanted to score the last film, he would get to? I doubt it. For some reason the studios and producers think they fine without JW.

[FattyMcButterpants 1]

Newell's comments are ignorant yes but perhaps we are reading too much into it, Tommy was quick to defend by stating Williams talent and Newell agreed.

Well, maybe because he quickly realised his honest opinion could not only hold no candle, but is also wrong, ignorant, and self- indulgent?

[Jacob 0]

T-Rex is one of the greatest action tracks JW has ever written.

Gives me shivers every time I hear it.

The good kind.

[Elmo Lewis 6]

I posted that earlier but no one wants to admit that Williams had no intention of scoring GOF. He was going to score Geisha no matter what.

If Williams truly wanted to score GOF, he would have. I'm pretty sure if his agents told them he would like to return, Warner Bros would have laid out the red carpet.

I agree with the first statement, but I think it was our blind faith in the second one that's caused this bit of shock over some (curiously phrased) opinions that aren't really that unreasonable once you've thought about it.

I've always had the deep conviction that if any producer or director got a call from John Williams' agent showing interest in their movie, they wouldn't hesitate to do so, because obviously this is John Williams. And this may very probably be the case, but I realize now how blindly and staunchly I've been clinging to this notion, and neglecting the possibility of some filmmakers thinking JW would be detrimental to their movies. It's interesting to imagine how right they would be in a lot of cases.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

OH my god how many badmouthing about the gorgeus score from Jurassic Park.

I'm shocked.

[Ollie 1,059]

I posted that earlier but no one wants to admit that Williams had no intention of scoring GOF. He was going to score Geisha no matter what.

If Williams truly wanted to score GOF, he would have. I'm pretty sure if his agents told them he would like to return, Warner Bros would have laid out the red carpet.

I agree with the first statement, but I think it was our blind faith in the second one that's caused this bit of shock over some (curiously phrased) opinions that aren't really that unreasonable once you've thought about it.

I've always had the deep conviction that if any producer or director got a call from John Williams' agent showing interest in their movie, they wouldn't hesitate to do so, because obviously this is John Williams. And this may very probably be the case, but I realize now how blindly and staunchly I've been clinging to this notion, and neglecting the possibility of some filmmakers thinking JW would be detrimental to their movies. It's interesting to imagine how right they would be in a lot of cases.

I'm only applying it to HP. I don't believe that he is all powerful but his name does carry some weight, both good & bad. In fact Lawrence Kasdan maentioned in an interview that while he loved Williams work and the job he did on The Accidental Tourist, he would never work with him again because Kasdan felt he had no input on the score. Basically Williams spotted the film and then went away for 6 weeks without any contact with Kasdan.

It's been mentioned that while David Arnold & D&E's relationship possibly soured on Godzilla, the reason they wanted Williams for The Patriot is because his name added quality to a picture they were hoping would be recognized during the Oscar/awards season. John Singleton went out of his way to get Williams forRosewood, James Cameron wanted him forTitanic but he was busy on TLW. Williams also asked to score Geisha and Angela's Ashes.

I believe HP was one of those exceptions where he could score it if he wanted to.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

Hm. John Williams scoring "Titanic"... I wonder what that would have sounded like....

[Hitch 57]

OH my god how many badmouthing about the gorgeus score from Jurassic Park.

I'm shocked.

The painting depicts Peter denying Jesus 3 times. I thought all religious material was banned by the Kitomer Accord?

Hm. John Williams scoring "Titanic"... I wonder what that would have sounded like....

Gurgle, gurgle, gurgle....after it hit the iceberg. In an alternate universe, Jerry would have won the Oscar as Johnny's Amistad and Titanic would have cancelled each other out.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

I agree about the JP main theme. I think it only really works when the Brachiosaurs are first seen. I don't mind the score, but it's not one of my favourites (I prefer TLW). I think the B theme (as heard in "Journey To The Island") is far away the best piece from the film, and even that's not amazing.

[indy4 155]

Yeah. Though I like what Doyle did with Hedwig's theme, Newell made it sound like he begrudgingly used it at the command of studio execs, and even then went to great lengths to make it sound as different as possible. Kind of a weird attitude.

I don't really mind that approach. The switch from CoS to PoA was one of the most radical mood changes in film scores, but it worked wonderfully. What I dislike (and it's not even that I dislike it, it is just weak in comparison to JW, or even NH's work) is the actual material. The entire scores seems like it's trying to pull out the bombast for every single dramatic moment, with blaring trumpets and dramatic drum beats. Nothing wrong with that every once in a while, but it gets very old after a while.

Having said that, there are many good moments, such as "Harry in Winter."

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

OH my god how many badmouthing about the gorgeus score from Jurassic Park.

I'm shocked.

The painting depicts Peter denying Jesus 3 times. I thought all religious material was banned by the Kitomer Accord?

I thought it was Socrates.