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Goldsmith secretly admired Williams

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In one preview of the now never-to-be-released Goldsmith biography, Goldsmith was critical of Williams's public persona.

Seems like maybe Goldsmith was a bit envious of JW... which is completely understandable, IMHO.

Definitively NO ! Goldsmith pointed that Williams wanted to have a carreer " à la Previn " , to be recognized as film composer and as "concert " (classical) composer.

and that was bad?

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In one preview of the now never-to-be-released Goldsmith biography, Goldsmith was critical of Williams's public persona.

Seems like maybe Goldsmith was a bit envious of JW... which is completely understandable, IMHO.

Definitively NO ! Goldsmith pointed that Williams wanted to have a carreer " à la Previn " , to be recognized as film composer and as "concert " (classical) composer.

and that was bad?

I'm not surprised if Goldsmith was a bit envoius of Williams. After all, who can blame him, when he puts his musical heart and soul into ABSOLUTELY BRILLANT scores for dross like "The Swarm", "Lionheart", "The Secret Of N.I.M.H." and "Logan's Run", while watching Williams get Oscar-nominated for farting. I guess that the real-the only-winners in all of this is us, the listening audience, which gets to hear all that marvelous music from Williams, Goldsmith, Horner, and the like.

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I have always wondered which composers like, or do not like who. Goldsmith, obviously LOVED Alex North (and qiute rightly so!!), and Williams loved Herrman (he once said that every note of Bernie's "runs through me", and that's why he scored "The Fury"). I'm not sure if Williams likes Morricone, and was a little put out when asked to "lean on The Mission" when composing "Empire Of The Sun". I have also heard that Goldsmith absolutely HATED Horner with a passion, and said that he was wasting his talent. Ho hum. I would like to think that most composers at least admire the work of their fellow professionals, if not actually liking every note that they compose. After all, they are only human-except Williams, of course!

Goldsmith was the only name Williams thought of when asked about what contemporary film music he admired. Then again, when asked about classic film music, he only said, "Bernard Herrmann".

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Horner dated Jerry's daughter.

May this be the cause of that (supposed) hatred?

Its is something more insidious, well , Horner dated Jerry Goldsmith daughter, Goldsmith was close relationship with Horner, inviting him at scoring sessions and so on...Then was an Horner interview that was reported to Goldsmith, something not really nice regarding their relationship was spoken, that broke something between Goldsmith regarding Horner...

In one preview of the now never-to-be-released Goldsmith biography, Goldsmith was critical of Williams's public persona.

Seems like maybe Goldsmith was a bit envious of JW... which is completely understandable, IMHO.

Definitively NO ! Goldsmith pointed that Williams wanted to have a carreer " à la Previn " , to be recognized as film composer and as "concert " (classical) composer.

and that was bad?

Seems like maybe Williams was, at earlier time, bit envious of Previn and wanted follow this kind of career...

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I doubt it...Previn is known genereally as a conductor. He does not seem to have any great acclaim for his concert work.

The kind of carrer that Mr Previn have, is he has started as film composer and he is now a big name in the world of classical concerts.This is what Jerry Goldsmith pointed over Williams ( who tend to find a legitimacy with a more "classical" public ), and believe he was right .

Personnaly in the world of the both sides of films/concerts composers I like William Walton and Ralph Vaughan Williams .

I believe Williams will only be remembered as to be the composer of StarWars by most of the (lambda) public, as Herrmann is remembered by same public for his Psycho score and Morricone for his Once upon time in west...

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I'm not surprised if Goldsmith was a bit envoius of Williams. After all, who can blame him, when he puts his musical heart and soul into ABSOLUTELY BRILLANT scores for dross like "The Swarm", "Lionheart", "The Secret Of N.I.M.H." and "Logan's Run", while watching Williams get Oscar-nominated for farting. I guess that the real-the only-winners in all of this is us, the listening audience, which gets to hear all that marvelous music from Williams, Goldsmith, Horner, and the like.

Is that why Goldsmith started to use farts ín his scores?

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Goldsmith respected and admired Williams and it was no secret. He was very open about it on several occasions. In fact, I can think of more statements where Goldsmith praises Williams than the other way around. I remember, in particular, a live web chat Goldsmith did back in the 90's and someone asked if he thought Williams had "lost it". Goldsmith's reply seemed terse as he said... "go and listen to Schindler's List and come back and say he's "lost it."

What Goldsmith didn't like was pretense and he found some of the Boston Pops posturing pretentious as well as film composers trying to cozy up to the classical establishment for validation as if film scoring was some lesser art form. Goldsmith strongly believed that film scoring was every bit a legitimate musical form as concert music.

I even have an audio interview where he defends John Williams as the single creative force behind the 5-note Close Encounters theme when someone in the audience claimed that it was Spielberg who came up with it.

Most of the competition and envy regarding these two giants more often stemmed from the fans rather than the men themselves.

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I'm not surprised if Goldsmith was a bit envoius of Williams. After all, who can blame him, when he puts his musical heart and soul into ABSOLUTELY BRILLANT scores for dross like "The Swarm", "Lionheart", "The Secret Of N.I.M.H." and "Logan's Run", while watching Williams get Oscar-nominated for farting. I guess that the real-the only-winners in all of this is us, the listening audience, which gets to hear all that marvelous music from Williams, Goldsmith, Horner, and the like.

Is that why Goldsmith started to use farts ín his scores?

WhatEVER can you mean?

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I'm not surprised if Goldsmith was a bit envoius of Williams. After all, who can blame him, when he puts his musical heart and soul into ABSOLUTELY BRILLANT scores for dross like "The Swarm", "Lionheart", "The Secret Of N.I.M.H." and "Logan's Run", while watching Williams get Oscar-nominated for farting. I guess that the real-the only-winners in all of this is us, the listening audience, which gets to hear all that marvelous music from Williams, Goldsmith, Horner, and the like.

Is that why Goldsmith started to use farts ín his scores?

WhatEVER can you mean?

Try 'Rambo II', after the first 20 seconds, it becomes fart galore!

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I'm not surprised if Goldsmith was a bit envoius of Williams. After all, who can blame him, when he puts his musical heart and soul into ABSOLUTELY BRILLANT scores for dross like "The Swarm", "Lionheart", "The Secret Of N.I.M.H." and "Logan's Run", while watching Williams get Oscar-nominated for farting. I guess that the real-the only-winners in all of this is us, the listening audience, which gets to hear all that marvelous music from Williams, Goldsmith, Horner, and the like.

Is that why Goldsmith started to use farts ín his scores?

WhatEVER can you mean?

Try 'Rambo II', after the first 20 seconds, it becomes fart galore!

Now you come to mention it, it does sound like someone farting, but I'd rather hear Goldsmith's farts, than someone like Zimmer's so-called music.

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The bitter truth it remains though. Besides, as much as Goldsmith is in a different league to Zimmer, I still champion the latter as a very talented composer of MUSIC.

I'm proud to admit that I believe that, just as you're equally proud to deny it. Either way, what you think on this subject matters very little to me, my friend. Your petty attempt at belittlement ends here.

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Hans Zimmer has made a bigger impact on cinema audiences than Jerry Goldsmith ever did.

Actually, this is one thing I am really bitter about.

On the other hand, I wholeheartedly disagree with anyone bashing all Zimmer's work.

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The bitter truth it remains though. Besides, as much as Goldsmith is in a different league to Zimmer, I still champion the latter as a very talented composer of MUSIC.

I'm proud to admit that I believe that, just as you're equally proud to deny it. Either way, what you think on this subject matters very little to me, my friend. Your petty attempt at belittlement ends here.

If you actually believe I care what you think then you're more of a pompous ass than I've given you credit for.

Bitter? Hell no. Bewildered? Hell yes.

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I can't say I'm bitter. It's unfortunate he's not more popular in the mainstream, but I know he's a far better composer and I have his great music to listen to, so it doesn't matter too much.

Oh I think he's more appreciated than some would admit. The fact he toured and did concerts all over the world, and even after passing concerts are devoted to him, says alot.

Hell Horner couldn't generate enough of an audience to get a Titanic concert rolling.

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No, he's about as appreciated as anybody would gladly admit. Seriously, why would someone deny an appreciation for an obvious talent like his? That's a baseless ideal. Sadly, his legacy lives on under the shadow of JW and HZ.

A Goldsmith conspiracy?

No, 'fraid not.

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i remember back in November of 2004 when John Williams was in Chicago conducting the CSO, he was commenting on Jerry's death. i can't remember exactly what he said, but it was respectful and admirable, talking about how Jerry always had the ability to find the emotion of a scene or convey the emotion of a scene (don't quote me on that). then they performed the Star Trek theme. i can't even begin to describe how awesome that was.

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i remember back in November of 2004 when John Williams was in Chicago conducting the CSO, he was commenting on Jerry's death. i can't remember exactly what he said, but it was respectful and admirable, talking about how Jerry always had the ability to find the emotion of a scene or convey the emotion of a scene (don't quote me on that). then they performed the Star Trek theme. i can't even begin to describe how awesome that was.

Well this one came pretty close though this was a year later after JG's passing...

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Some interesting tidbits in this thread...I'm wondering, does anybody still have the links to the following?

In one preview of the now never-to-be-released Goldsmith biography, Goldsmith was critical of Williams's public persona.

. I'm not sure if Williams likes Morricone, and was a little put out when asked to "lean on The Mission" when composing "Empire Of The Sun".

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I have downloaded the second chapter, too. I think the quotes about Williams are in there. Goldsmith just rails about Williams appearing as grandfatherly mascot of the rose parade and some pops appearances someone as crusty as Goldsmith must have found extremely off-putting. In a nutshell, JG seemed to think that what they do as film composers is worthy enough without catering to crowds and classical snobs that is all but inevitable in Williams position.

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Some interesting tidbits in this thread...I'm wondering, does anybody still have the links to the following?

In one preview of the now never-to-be-released Goldsmith biography, Goldsmith was critical of Williams's public persona.

. I'm not sure if Williams likes Morricone, and was a little put out when asked to "lean on The Mission" when composing "Empire Of The Sun".

I know I read Morricone saying that he should have won the oscar for "the mission", what he thinks is his crowning achievement. It lost to E.T. so i think he does not like Williams very much ;)

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Some interesting tidbits in this thread...I'm wondering, does anybody still have the links to the following?

In one preview of the now never-to-be-released Goldsmith biography, Goldsmith was critical of Williams's public persona.

. I'm not sure if Williams likes Morricone, and was a little put out when asked to "lean on The Mission" when composing "Empire Of The Sun".

I know I read Morricone saying that he should have won the oscar for "the mission", what he thinks is his crowning achievement. It lost to E.T. so i think he does not like Williams very much ;)

The Mission was in 1986, four years after E.T (and one of the few years Williams wasn't nominated). It lost to 'Round Midnight. I don't blame Morricone for being upset about losing to such a mediocre score.

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In a nutshell, JG seemed to think that what they do as film composers is worthy enough without catering to crowds and classical snobs that is all but inevitable in Williams position.

And he would be right ofcourse!

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I saw some recent queries about this book on the Jerry Goldsmith forum so I decided to post the following here:

I was briefly involved with trying to help Carrie Goldsmith find a publisher for her manuscript, or self-publish, and also work on the book editorially. The manuscript had a lot of fascinating material but, as Carrie advised me, there were likely legal issues pertaining to some of the content (i.e. persons depicted therein). Unfortunately, in trying to explore ways to smooth over these legal issues, I showed the manuscript to someone without permission and when I fessed up to Carrie, she and her brother Joel decided -- and I don't blame them -- to terminate my involvement. This was entirely my fault and I take full responsibility.

The last I heard, Carrie had decided to shelve the book indefinitely. I have sworn not to share any of the content of the book outside of the brief excerpts that Carrie allowed us to quote in a couple of liner notes (as in The Last Run). I will say that the manuscript is fairly represented by the sample chapters published online, in that it is largely a presentation of the oral history Carrie began with her father during the last months of his life, interspersed with Carrie's interviews with other composers, film music figures, and family members, and Carrie's own journey of trying to connect with her father and detail difficult aspects of her personal history with him.

In my opinion, the book is not a true biography of Jerry Goldsmith but a very personal and candid memoir from Carrie's point of view with a great deal of literary potential. However, there is considerable work remaining to make the book fit for publication. In my observation, Carrie really poured her heart into the book, and made great personal sacrifices to work on it, and at this point she just doesn't want to deal with it anymore. In a way I feel like I was the straw that broke the camel's back, and as Joel and Carrie will likely read this, if they want a public apology, I offer it here. However, I will say I worked on the book with the best of intentions, and that the manuscript, as it stands now, is not appropriate for publication -- and to be perfectly clear, this is something on which Joel and Carrie appeared to agree with me.

It is regrettable that the manuscript may never reach the public. The responsible thing for Carrie and Joel Goldsmith to do would be to continue to work on the manuscript so that a version of it could be published -- even if online -- or alternatively provide the material to another author for a scholarly biography. I don't know what good it would do to write them letters to this effect.

I think I am characterizing the above fairly but it's likely Joel and Carrie, or someone else involved, might have a different recollection.

Please excuse me if I don't want to make any further statements on this book. It was a very difficult project to be associated with and I really regret my failure to help Joel and Carrie, and of course to the fans dying to read about Jerry Goldsmith.

Lukas Kendall

http://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=21334&forumID=1&archive=1

The bio previews were on Joel Goldsmith's site for a long time

I found something

http://www.jerrygoldsmithonline.com/spotlight_biography_preview.htm

Where can I find chapter 2?

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