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The Quick Question Thread

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On 11/25/2017 at 9:57 PM, Bespin said:

Allez, on efface l'ardoise.

 

Resetting my ignore list to zero... because I even don't rememeber why I put you on my ignore list.

 

 

 

If you would have included Stefancos on this list, you had been wondering why nobody is writting on this forum any more.

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@Ludwig, what would you say is the origin of this theme?

Is it derived from any previous theme or is this something new not heard before this cue?  I also hear this motif further used and developed in Hyperspace a few minutes later as you can hear here:

 

One of the things I love about ESB score is how organic the development is.  The themes go through quite a lot of dramatic exploration so the first act is quite lyrical but the last act is quite dramatic using the same material.

 

An example of what I mean: Han Solo and the Princess (0:15 to 0:30):

 

compared to this very intense variation that repeats the opening phrase (fragmentation, transformation, extension, modulation, etc.):

 

So my question is, the "rescue from cloud city" motif, is that derived from something pre-existing or is it something new?  If new, why do you think new material was necessary rather than a dramatic variation of either the yoda theme (used throughout the Luke's conflict with vader) or something that already has been established?

 

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On 12/5/2017 at 11:10 AM, karelm said:

@Ludwig, what would you say is the origin of this theme?

 

[...]

 

So my question is, the "rescue from cloud city" motif, is that derived from something pre-existing or is it something new?  If new, why do you think new material was necessary rather than a dramatic variation of either the yoda theme (used throughout the Luke's conflict with vader) or something that already has been established?

 

 

Before TFA was released, I went through the six previous films and soundtracks and catalogued the themes, giving them names if ones didn't seem to exist already. This one I called "Rebels Struggle" because it only appears once Luke is hanging from those bars beneath Cloud City and is consistently associated with Luke and the Rebels as they make their final escape of the film. I did not hear it as a derivation of any other theme in the score, though like a few other themes, it brings in several aspects of a funeral march - the slow four-beat pulse, the minor key, the "lamenting" melody of scale degrees 5-6-5. Similarly funereal themes include one I call "Empire in Control" and another I call "Vader Succeeding", this last one obviously based on the Imperial March.)

 

When trying to make sense of why a theme would or wouldn't be derived from another, I think we always have to remember that, to a greater extent than his contemporaries, Williams' music is tightly knit to the ever-changing emotional implications of the film. So in this case, having this new theme appear only after Luke has lost the saber fight points up the direness of the situation: the Rebels just lost Han to the enemy, and now Luke has not only lost, he has barely made it out alive. The new theme we hear at this point acts as a kind of concluding theme that ends the film on a dark and somewhat hopeless note. Had the theme instead been another form of the Imperial March to show Vader's dominance over the situation, I think it would have been less effective since something new near the end of the film can signal conclusion far better - cadences in music, for example, are usually based on a different melody and different harmony that what precedes them to distinguish endings from beginnings. And with the emotional qualities of the theme, that sense of conclusion comes with feelings of gravity and hopelessness that are a perfect match for the drama at this point.

 

In short, it's a subtle but brilliantly effective tactic to stir up just the right emotions at this point in the film.

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32 minutes ago, Ludwig said:

 

Before TFA was released, I went through the six previous films and soundtracks and catalogued the themes, giving them names if ones didn't seem to exist already. This one I called "Rebels Struggle" because it only appears once Luke is hanging from those bars beneath Cloud City and is consistently associated with Luke and the Rebels as they make their final escape of the film. I did not hear it as a derivation of any other theme in the score, though like a few other themes, it has brings in several aspects of a funeral march - the slow four-beat pulse, the minor key, the "lamenting" melody of scale degrees 5-6-5. Similarly funereal themes include one I call "Empire in Control" and another I call "Vader Succeeding", this last one obviously based on the Imperial March.)

 

When trying to make sense of why a theme would or wouldn't be derived from another, I think we always have to remember that, to a greater extent than his contemporaries, Williams' music is tightly knit to the ever-changing emotional implications of the film. So in this case, having this new theme appear only after Luke has lost the saber fight points up the direness of the situation: the Rebels just lost Han to the enemy, and now Luke has not only lost, he has barely made it out alive. The new theme we hear at this point acts as a kind of concluding theme that ends the film on a dark and somewhat hopeless note. Had the theme instead been another form of the Imperial March to show Vader's dominance over the situation, I think it would have been less effective since a something new near the end of the film can signal conclusion far better - cadences in music, for example, are usually based on a different melody and different harmony that what precedes them to distinguish endings from beginnings. And with the emotional qualities of the theme, that sense of conclusion comes with feelings of gravity and hopelessness that are a perfect match for the drama at this point.

 

In short, it's a subtle but brilliantly effective tactic to stir up just the right emotions at this point in the film.

 

Very interesting observations.  I like the idea of bringing in new material based on pre-existing ideas but with new twists during the third act especially after an act of villainy has been perfectly executed. 

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10 minutes ago, Fal said:

So, @Sharky @TheGreyPilgrim @karelm @Loert what does this mean? Sheetmusicquestion.png


They're both treble clefs. The bottom one has some additional marking overtop of it, but it's impossible to say what it is without a bit more context.

 

And hey, I don't get a shout out? What am I, chopped liver?!

 

Kidding. These things can be very hard to decipher. Jaws, anyone?

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11 hours ago, Fal said:

Anybody else able to decipher the hadnwriting for these chords?

Em?, Eaug? and FnM9?

Chordquestion.png

 

Em, Emin6, and the last one looks like F(half-diminished)minor7, but that would be a redundant symbol, so could it be 9 instead of 7?

 

If these appear above a part, the notes should confirm the symbols.

 

EDIT: Actually the last one is F#m7.

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Does JWfaner own Cliff Martinez's score for TRAFFIC?

I ask because, at the end of the last track (Eno's ASCENT) there appears to be approximately ten minutes of...well...nothing!

Is this right? Has anyone else got these ten blank minutes? Am I annoying every single dog in the neighbourhood?

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My Armor Is Iron, though not all the music heard in the film is in the OST track, because the OST track is edited down from the full recording(s)

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Absolutely there is, yep.

 

The awesome version of Gandalf's Theme as he draws his sword when entering Dol Guldur?  Unreleased.

 

Opening of the Forest River chase?  Unreleased.

 

Lots more stuff all throughout the whole film unreleased.

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Just now, Brundlefly said:

Is there an overview of how the SW OT OSTs are assembled and of what the medleys consist?

 

I'm already regretting saying this, but if nobody points to an existing breakdown till tomorrow, I could probably do it with a single click-through-to-find-the-next-edit listen off the top of my head if I can find the OSTs.

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1 hour ago, Holko said:

 

I'm already regretting saying this, but if nobody points to an existing breakdown till tomorrow, I could probably do it with a single click-through-to-find-the-next-edit listen off the top of my head if I can find the OSTs.

Careful. I might hold you to that!

like Brundlefly I would be really interested (if it doesn't already exist)

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Whew! Thanks, I was just about to start! :) Empire's link doesn't seem correct though...

There really should be a place where we can access all your wonderful spreadsheets.

 

One little correction to the Jedi one, and sorry if this has been discussed to death 1000 times in the past or I'm wrong:

Victory Celebration. I don't think the movie version is different from the recorded one, just significantly edited. Instead of the long-winded woodwind intro and weird noises at the beginning, the movie just has the percussion in the very beginning looped over and over for the various planets, then the woodwind begins like in the recorded, but is cut away to the part with the yaaa-yaaaa Ewok choir, which is dialed out in the film mix, but I swear I can hear remains of it ever so faintly. Then it finishes like the recorded, the "normal" choir is back.

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I have a quick question regarding STAR TREK: VI.

At the beginning, there's the C in C, but further on there's the Kurtwood Smith character - the President. So..who's actually the head of Starfleet (and why didn't Robert Ellenstein return)?

Also, is Smith's character meant to be blind? I've always wondered.

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7 hours ago, Holko said:

 

Whew! Thanks, I was just about to start! :) Empire's link doesn't seem correct though...

 

I don't seem to have an Empire spreadsheet, but that's a list of the original reel/part numbers and original cue names at least.  It's not hard to figure out where each one starts/ends inside the tracks.

 

 

7 hours ago, Holko said:

There really should be a place where we can access all your wonderful spreadsheets.

 

I know, I gotta whip something up for that

 

 

7 hours ago, Holko said:

One little correction to the Jedi one, and sorry if this has been discussed to death 1000 times in the past or I'm wrong:

Victory Celebration. I don't think the movie version is different from the recorded one, just significantly edited. Instead of the long-winded woodwind intro and weird noises at the beginning, the movie just has the percussion in the very beginning looped over and over for the various planets, then the woodwind begins like in the recorded, but is cut away to the part with the yaaa-yaaaa Ewok choir, which is dialed out in the film mix, but I swear I can hear remains of it ever so faintly. Then it finishes like the recorded, the "normal" choir is back.

 

Can't say I ever analysed it at all, I don't really like that music as much as the original Yub Nub cue so don't really care that much about the film version vs album version differences.  I like what Giacchino did with the melody for Star Tours II, though.

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Seriously, why is there a decent 70+ minutes OST for every Star Wars soundtrack, except for Return of the Jedi which has a 40 minute pile of rock 'n' concert arrangements?! You could really not represent the score worse!

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Disney's re-release of the OST should have added 30 minutes! A friend of mine is just getting familiar with all Star Wars scores by means of the OSTs and he said he couldn't really dive into the music of Episode 6.

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For those with better musical knowledge than I have. I was listening to 'Revisiting Snoke' and was trying to figure out what creates the hissing sound that accompanies the Imperial March moment from 1:12-1:21 (I believe this plays in the movie when Kylo Ren is looking at Vader's helmet):

 

 

Is this an electronic sound effect based on Vader's actual breathing? Some kind of cymbals? It stood out to me as an unusual (yet appropriate) moment so was just curious.

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2 hours ago, idril said:

For those with better musical knowledge than I have. I was listening to 'Revisiting Snoke' and was trying to figure out what creates the hissing sound that accompanies the Imperial March moment from 1:12-1:21 (I believe this plays in the movie when Kylo Ren is looking at Vader's helmet):

 

 

Is this an electronic sound effect based on Vader's actual breathing? Some kind of cymbals? It stood out to me as an unusual (yet appropriate) moment so was just curious.

It sounds like a suspended cymbal roll with metal brushes.  Sort of like this:

 

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1 hour ago, karelm said:

It sounds like a suspended cymbal roll with metal brushes.  Sort of like this:

 

Thanks! Yeah I was thinking it sounded like it could be cymbals but very cleverly employed to echo the Vader sound effects.

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So... I've got way too much time on my hands right now and thought it would be fun to make a chronological JW-Spielberg playlist. Obviously, my main source is the 3CD box set, but AFAIK it does not cover The Lost World, AI, War of the Worlds and The Post. I'm not familiar with these scores minus TLW (hope to watch Post soon), but want to include tracks that would likely have been chosen by JW if they had been covered on that set.

 

So, which tracks should I include? After some research, I came up with:

AI: Abandoned in the Woods and Where Dreams are Born (two concert arrangements)

WOTW: Escape from the City (album version), this score doesn't seem to have any concert arrangements

The Post: ?

 

Any suggestions?

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41 minutes ago, Josh500 said:

Anybody know which orchestra this is and when and where this was the recorded? John Williams is in top form! 

 

https://youtu.be/bQP-b30n2xo

I believe it is from the 2014/2015 Opening Night Gala Concert of the Los Angeles Philharmonic with the orchestra conducted by Gustavo Dudamel celebrating Williams' career. The concert took place in the Walt Disney Concert Hall. The composer was in attendance with his daughter and was summoned to the podium to conduct the Imperial March as an encore. This concert has been released on Blu-ray and DVD under the title A John Williams Celebration.

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2 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said:

Correct. Sadly, the march is ruined by the pointless appearance of the stormtroopers and Vader (or rather, the resulting noise from the audience) in the second half.

 

It's not ruined, I've got chills when I saw it! :huh:

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The concert is also significant as the first official recording of Soundings released outside its premiere in that very hall. Plus the version of Escapades (from Catch Me If You Can) Williams just won a Grammy for is featured in the programme with e.g. the lengthy double bass coda in the second movement and revised saxophone solos.

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On 25.1.2018 at 12:00 PM, bollemanneke said:

So... I've got way too much time on my hands right now and thought it would be fun to make a chronological JW-Spielberg playlist. Obviously, my main source is the 3CD box set, but AFAIK it does not cover The Lost World, AI, War of the Worlds and The Post. I'm not familiar with these scores minus TLW (hope to watch Post soon), but want to include tracks that would likely have been chosen by JW if they had been covered on that set.

 

So, which tracks should I include? After some research, I came up with:

AI: Abandoned in the Woods and Where Dreams are Born (two concert arrangements)

WOTW: Escape from the City (album version), this score doesn't seem to have any concert arrangements

The Post: ?

 

Any suggestions?

 

TLW:

The Lost World

The Hunt

 

AI:

Abandoned in the Woods (album version)

Where Dreams Are Born

 

WOTW:

Escape from the City (album version)

Epilogue

 

TP:

The Presses Roll

Setting the Type

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3 hours ago, Bespin said:

 

It's not ruined, I've got chills when I saw it! :huh:

 

Why?

 

Also, I've made an audio rip of the Blu-ray, and it's basically impossible to listen to the IM when halfway through the audience suddenly bursts into applause without apparent reason.

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