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      Donate to JWFan, win a CD!   05/30/17

      Hello!

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Trent Hoyt

Vinyl

103 posts in this topic

Vinyl has a certain sophistication about it. It's the great care you need to take with them, that makes them seem like you're pouring a fine vintage wine. Or, like Indy trying to replace the weight of that idol in ROTL with the bag of sand. It requires a lot of attention and delicate movement not to damage the disc itself with the needl. I'm talking about playing classical vinyls or something, of course. The way some people treat CDs can be quite amazing. Rental CDs from my local library are often a right state. Scratched beyond belief, and sometimes even glue on them. Some also did this with Vinyl I know. But overall the care required in handling Vinyl is one of the things that made it a special experience to play one. Like dismantling a land mine. ROTFLMAO

God, that sounds hot.

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Buy some hybrid discs (SA-CD or DVD-A) of music you like and go to Tweeter. (They might even have some demo disc there.) As an audiophile, you owe it to yourself.

I would, but they seem to have gone out of business. Bummer.

That is a top reason that SA-CD is struggling badly. I feel that people that are buying a CD should spring the extra few bucks and buy the SA- version. If you do get an SA-CD player, you won't regret getting that SA- disc instead. OH, THE SOUND QUALITY!

That's technically correct, but I don't see it being an effective marketing campaign. Buy something with extra frills in the hope that you may eventually take advantage of them? Consumers just won't spring for that.

But say it was a DVD-A or SA-CD; there'd be no way to manipulate the music like that.

Again, not true. SA-CD ha has the CD layer. DVD-A has the Dolby Digital track. And there's always the analog way; no big deal if you really wanted to edit the music.

Again, the regular CD layers are irrelevant. The issue here is that the consumer is unable to work with the hi-fi surround sound material.

It not an opinion that vinyl, SA-CD, and DVD-Audio can produce more realistic sound than CD (and the mp3-like files that come from them). However, the CD comes out on top in the most important factors: price and compatibility. And let's not forget it's been the industry standard for music distribution for 20+ years. Now digital distribution is gaining ground. It's beyond me that people pay for compressed music. They just can wait, can they?

Eh... I've bought some compressed music. Mostly pop. I'm an audiophile, but if I'm interested in one song from an album, and I'd rather pay 99 cents for the song than twenty dollars for the whole CD, I'm not going to wait indefinitely for the song to possibly be released in a lossless format in the future. It isn't that important to me. Now that iTunes has upped their compression standards the audio quality is, I think, very acceptable. It's nearly at the CD level. Would I like for it to be higher than CD quality, or in surround sound? Definitely. I'm not going to complete cut myself off from music purchases until that time comes, though. I find it just isn't worth it.

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Trendy people will not like the design nor the anti-ecological message of these 'things'. They might look good in a Swiss cabin though.

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NPR's Bob Boilen on Why Vinyl Isn't Really Coming Back:

Despite the romance and love for that warm "vinyl sound," it has so many imperfections. Vinyl's biggest downside in practical, everyday use is the quality of sound. Without going into the physics of it all, the inside tracks of a vinyl record often didn't sound the same as the opening tracks. It has to do with the tracking force of the tone arm and its tendency to push toward the inner grooves or pull toward the outer grooves of a record as the needle makes its way from the beginning of the record to the end. Sure, you could adjust the anti-skating on a turntable, but really, it was a subtle, shifting art.

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Well tomorrow is National Independent Record Store Day. There are going to be a lot of exclusives out there tomorrow.

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I just got a high-end system. Bought some sealed Williams LP's. Superman, Raiders, Empire, both Jaws, and E.T. I feel bad for those of you who think it's not better than CDs. You should hear Empire, Superman, and Raiders. You would cry.

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LPs were really before my time, but I nevertheless grew up with the Star Wars OST LP, and I don't find the sound to be unequivocally better. It's...different. There's something very nice and "warm" about it, cliche as that is, but I've heard some really stunning sound on CDs. Really depends on what you're going for.

For me, the biggest turnoffs are not the sound quality, but the fragility, physical bulk, immutability, and sheer contemporary rareness of the medium. Do those things make you tend to value and treasure and relish the experience in a more focused way? Sure, yeah. But I can't ignore the more practical disadvantages.

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A record player would be nice if you had a lot of house get-togethers and parties. I could imagine myself using it in that way.

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I've been thinking about starting a record collection. If you shop smartly, you can find records dirt cheap. Currently I own about 10 records but I don't have a record player.

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I just got a high-end system. Bought some sealed Williams LP's. Superman, Raiders, Empire, both Jaws, and E.T. I feel bad for those of you who think it's not better than CDs. You should hear Empire, Superman, and Raiders. You would cry.

Did you also get a woodburning stove, and mullioned windows? Maybe that thatched roof will appeal to you.

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I just got a high-end system. Bought some sealed Williams LP's. Superman, Raiders, Empire, both Jaws, and E.T. I feel bad for those of you who think it's not better than CDs. You should hear Empire, Superman, and Raiders. You would cry.

What's a CD?

I thought audiophiles all got lossless FLACs these days, shouldn't we have a thread on those, not antiques?

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i dont know if lps had better sound. i just know that the lp rip of 'marion into the pit' sounds very jarring in the high tones, screaming 'lp'.

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Not realising at first that this is an old thread, I'm replying to some ancient posts, too:

I'm a vinylphile. It's all about sound quality. Music on vinyl is far less compressed and has more dynamic range than music on CD (generally). It really just sounds a lot better in most cases, provided the vinyl is clean, and your system doesn't suck. Those are two big provisos, however.

This really only effects pop and rock, though. Classical music and scores generally sound just as great (or better) on CD as on vinyl.

I thought dynamic range is the one thing everyone agreed was improved with the CD, even when it was new and digital recordings weren't what they are today. My understanding was that for LP mastering, dynamic compression was necessary, and one of the big advantages of CDs, especially for classical music, was the extended dynamic range.

Plus I don't see how that would make an improvement for pop and rock and none for orchestral music. It's the latter that typically has the highest dynamic requirements.

The reason for the comeback of vinyl is not an audiophile one but a psychological one. Deejays love vinyl. Deejays are the new music heroes (of the proletarian culture). And so LPs are giving people the feeling that they too are a little bit deejay.

Plus a lot of people like the noise of a typical non-high end turntable. They prefer to buy a product for its inferiorities instead of its strenghts.

Otherwise I guess it wouldn't have been LPs that got a revival, but SACDs.

I won't invest into SACD because A: I don't want to have to buy a separate player for that and B: the investment isn't worth it.

Your first point makes no sense. When CDs came out, people had to buy a separate player for that. When DVDs came out, people had to buy a separate player for that. Both were - and still are - highly successful formats, and their successors (Blu and SACD) are actually somewhat compatible in that their players still allow you to play the media you bought earlier. You couldn't put LPs/cassettes in a CD player, nor VHS tapes in a DVD player.

Your second point of course is what it's all about. The format never caught on. In the beginning, it depends on how many people buy it regardless of point B, to reach critical mass. That worked with CDs and DVDs, and apparently BDs, but not with DVD-A and SACD.

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I just got a high-end system. Bought some sealed Williams LP's. Superman, Raiders, Empire, both Jaws, and E.T. I feel bad for those of you who think it's not better than CDs. You should hear Empire, Superman, and Raiders. You would cry.

Did you also get a woodburning stove, and mullioned windows? Maybe that thatched roof will appeal to you.

Not yet. I just finished installing the outhouse. First things first.

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For me, what makes the CD the winner over LPs is this: each time you play that vinyl, it wears out a little bit more. Every time you play that CD, it pretty much sounds exactly like it did the last time you played it.

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Did anyone pick up any of the record store exclusives yesterday? I went to my local independent record store and the crowds were pretty nuts. I didnt pick up any records though just cds.

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I thought dynamic range is the one thing everyone agreed was improved with the CD, even when it was new and digital recordings weren't what they are today. My understanding was that for LP mastering, dynamic compression was necessary, and one of the big advantages of CDs, especially for classical music, was the extended dynamic range.

Theoretically, yes, dynamic range can technically be better on CD. And most classical and movie score CDs are indeed superior in digital formats. But with popular music like rock, CDs are only sounding worse and worse as time goes on. See

and
.

(That said, if you want some soundtrack vinyl that'll knock your socks off, find the DCC LP of Raiders. It's completely awesome. Other soundtracks sound pretty lousy, though. The original Star Wars LP is REALLY compressed.)

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But with popular music like rock, CDs are only sounding worse and worse as time goes on. See

and
.

That's a matter of mastering though, not of CD technology. Someone who over-compresses music for a CD release would surely do the same thing for an LP release. Unless the whole point was to fake an LP advantage where there wasn't one.

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Dynamic range is overrated. Obviously, you need enough range for the music to sound natural and not totally exhaust you, and obviously clipping is bad, but I'd rather not have to be constantly adjusting the volume while I listen. Maybe my ears just have a strange sensitivity curve or something, but I find that the range of volume levels in which I'm comfortable is fairly narrow. Although I do listen mostly with headphones, so perhaps I'd be more comfortable with a wider dynamic range on speakers. EDIT: But take, for example, the HP:SS recording sessions. Very wide dynamic range. If I were to listen straight through, I'd have to be constantly fiddling with the volume in order to be able to hear the music but not blow my eardrums out. So I went through and tweaked every cue to make them listenable.

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Did anyone pick up any of the record store exclusives yesterday? I went to my local independent record store and the crowds were pretty nuts. I didnt pick up any records though just cds.

I went to the Newbury Comics in North Attleboro and picked up a live dream theater CD I didn't have. My girlfriend picked up a bunch of stuff from a table of free stuff - a free sampler EP, an Iron and Wine button, and some flavored water

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Newbury Comics is the best. They have so many sales and their used selection is great. I have never gotten a cd or dvd that was scratched.

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Yea I absolutely love their B1G1 used blu ray sales. Best way to get blu rays

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And the B1G1 used cd sales. They usually have a limit of 5 free cds. Sometimes I'll hit up 2 Newbury Comics during one of those sales.

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I hit up two Newbury Comics during the last one :P

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I'd certainly buy one of those, but not for $15,000.

It doesn't seem to be anything new, though:

In late 1989 Finial's investors finally cut their losses and liquidated the firm, selling the patents to Japanese turntable maker BSR, which became CTI Japan which in turn created ELP Japan for continued development of the "super-audiophile" turntable. After eight more years of development the laser turntable was finally put on sale in 1997 as the ELP LT-1XA Laser Turntable, with a list price of US$20,500 (in 2003 the price was lowered to US$10,500).

Apparently ELP are just trying to promote their more recent models through a couple of websites.

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Nope.

Vinyl and LP players are tech from a bygone era. Its like buying a wood burning stove.

It's not the solution!

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Hipsters don't care about that, Steef. They want a solution to the non-ritual process that goes with USB sticks or streaming.

However, I can understand that this device splits the hipsters into two groups.

Why not just buy a CD player?


Why not just get CDs then?

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Is vinyl really that hot? Heck, there's not even one youtube video of someone playing the ESB 2-LP.

Alex

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