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John Williams and West Side Story


Williamsfan301

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An interesting side note came up on a email I received from a member of the Conductor's Guild concerning West Side Story. I don't know the answer, but I figured someone on this board probably would. Here's the question...

"On a side note, my liner notes from the original Broadway Cast recording (with Larry Kert as Tony) lists John Williams as the pianist. I'm not sure if he was a studio musician or a member of the original pit orchestra, but I've always been curious if it was the John Williams of film composer fame. Does anyone have any more details? I'm sure IBDB.com there might reveal some interesting answers . . . "

So, anyone know? JW did do alot of studio work during this time AND would probably still have been at Julliard when this production opened on Broadway.

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To be honest, Quint,I have never heard of an instrumental West Side Story album, I am not sure one exists. I found some videos on Youtube.com a while ago that featured Leonard Bernstein's recording sessions, but I cannot seem to find them right now....

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A Special Edition of the soundtrack was released in the early 2000's with all the score as well as the songs. The edition I have only includes the songs and the two most prominent cues ("Overture" and "The Rumble").

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Stan Kenton's "West Side Story" album is awesome...if you're not familiar with it, you should check it out. It won the Grammy for Best Jazz Recording in the early 60s (19610 or 62 or something).

The film's producers heard it after they were finished with the movie, and claimed that they wished they had known about Kenton's version, as they would have used it for the film. In the long run, probably best that didn't happen, as the film is great the way it is.

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John (Towner) Williams was the session pianist on at least some of the sessions of West Side Story film.

Regarding the musical, all I can say is that, during the 50's when Williams was studying at Julliard, he did play on jazz clubs and broadway musicals to earn a living and pay for his studies. So it isn't so much of a long shot to think he may have played on at least some performances of this one.

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John (Towner) Williams was the session pianist on at least some of the sessions of West Side Story film.

Regarding the musical, all I can say is that, during the 50's when Williams was studying at Julliard, he did play on jazz clubs and broadway musicals to earn a living and pay for his studies. So it isn't so much of a long shot to think he may have played on at least some performances of this one.

Cool. I'll relate that answer.

Thanks much!

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Okay, I found them. A really nice documentary, very informative.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBHp52JFGs8 (Part I)

This is a re-recording of the songs from West Side Story, conducted by Bernstein. He used opera singers. This is a great 60 minute documentary, and there are a few moments when you can really see his temper. The male vocalist looks scared and worried most of the time. The instrumental portions are excellent!

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Miguel - nice to see you again!!!

Alejandro - I'm glad I'm not the only one who seems to know about this doc....it's well worth a watch to see Bernstein almost throw his teddies out of his pram when Jose Carreras (does anyone else see the fatal flaw in that casting??) asks to do 2 bars again....

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  • 8 years later...
  • 10 months later...

I wonder if Williams is orchestrating anything for this? Production begins early next summer apparently (no release date announced). 

 

Wouldn't they need the music recorded in advance of production, for use on set? And would Spielberg hire anyone other than Williams to oversee the sessions? I'm guessing we'll hear more over the coming months, as Williams will probably start writing for SWIX early next year as well. 

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I hope Williams is involved in this.  I can't think of a better person to oversee the music, conduct the sessions, and adapt where necessary.

 

However, I wonder if they will go down the pre-recorded route.  I feel the modern approach to film musicals is interesting, where the singers sing on set with a live piano accompaniment relayed to discreetly concealed headphones, allowing them to shape the vocal performance with their acting, and the accompanist following their interpretation.  The orchestra then replaces the piano accompaniment in the sessions.  This worked well for the recent Les Miserables film, but would it be feasible with a score as complex as West Side Story?

 

Either way, I'm very excited for this adaptation!

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I'm sure Williams has been consulted as a minimum. It would be rather shocking if Spielberg finally made his long-awaited musical and his closest collaborator (arguably the greatest living film composer) wasn't even involved. No way! 

 

One way or another the music needs to be freshly recorded for Spielberg's film (potentially before they even start filming). Why would he hire anyone other than Williams to conduct those sessions? 

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1 hour ago, crumbs said:

I wonder if Williams is orchestrating anything for this? Production begins early next summer apparently (no release date announced). 

 

Wouldn't they need the music recorded in advance of production, for use on set? And would Spielberg hire anyone other than Williams to oversee the sessions? I'm guessing we'll hear more over the coming months, as Williams will probably start writing for SWIX early next year as well. 

 

SWIX. Funny abbreviation. Name of a type of ski wax here in Norway (and also a sports/ski brand in general):

 

istock_skismoring_250.jpg

 

But back on topic -- yes, I'd be curious to see if Spielberg will hire anyone other than Williams to oversee this, since he's a guy who actually PLAYED on the original recording!

 

 

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And you just know that will make a great story in some Variety article promoting Williams' involvement, a bit like how he met Katharine Graham years before Spielberg made The Post.

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Listening to the West Side Story movie version soundtrack again.  It's horrible!  What were the arrangers thinking when they decided to rewrite the prologue, throwing in little smatterings of "Cool" and the Ballet music here and there?  Also the horribly over-sized orchestra detracts so much from the tight, spiky score.  No wonder Bernstein hated it.

 

I trust Williams and Spielberg will be more intelligent and respectful to the music!

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I'm sure Bernstein would want Williams as music supervisor for any remake of the film. Surely everyone involved wants it!

 

I'd just be very surprised if the wheels aren't already in motion. We haven't really heard anything about Williams since London, not even about his return to LA or recovery (I believe he was fully recovered before even leaving London?)

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The 1961 soundtrack album to the film did have John Williams on piano on it (at least for part of it as some people noted). Importantly regarding the film, according to the biography of Bernstein I read earlier this year, Lenny was not involved in the film. Johnny Green was brought in to handle the conducting.

 

I highly recommend John Williams and the Boston Pops' album Bernstein by Boston. It's still in print (at least digitally). Just a great take on the tunes of LB from his hometown.

https://www.discogs.com/Leonard-BernsteinBoston-Pops-John-Williams-Bernstein-By-Boston/release/9225905

 

I completely agree that John Williams should be involved in WSS if Spielberg finally does it. As if a resume were needed, here are his qualifications:

1. Played on West Side Story film

2. Won academy award for adapting Fiddler on the Roof from Broadway production. Also worked and nominated for adapting other material throughout early part of his career

3. Extensive jazz background

4. Knew and worked with Leonard Bernstein

5. Pretty good :) at writing for the human voice

6. Knows that young kid Spielberg at the helm of this project

 

The only issue I really see is if there is a big push to work with the current crop of broadway star writers and lyricists. The same can probably be asked about the choreography. Does the Jerome Robbins material need to be replaced? It's still performed during ballets around the world. However, if the film is the same as the 1960's version, what's the point in remaking it?

 

 

Two other musicals (well, one is an opera) that John Williams has lot of connection to are My Fair Lady and Porgy and Bess. 

  • On MFL, he played on the film recording, and he created arrangements for Shelly Manne's jazz album (which is great). These were also performed at Tanglewood a while back.
  • On P&B, he played on the film score (led by long time associate of JW, André Previn) as well as a number of other related albums of the music from the late 50's and 60's including a Broadway cast revival album. In the Joshua Bell album Gershwin Fantasy, there is a fantasy on the music from P&B conducted by JW. Courage (another name long associated with JW) did the orchestration for that piece.

 

 

On 5/2/2009 at 2:48 PM, Miguel Andrade said:

Regarding the musical, all I can say is that, during the 50's when Williams was studying at Julliard, he did play on jazz clubs and broadway musicals to earn a living and pay for his studies. So it isn't so much of a long shot to think he may have played on at least some performances of this one.

 

I have recently found another John T. Williams, jazz pianist, active in NYC around the same time. (I am sure he is noted on these forums, so apologies for not looking first.) He was there in the 50's in NY and did a number of recordings.

 

John Thomas Williams was born January 28, 1929 in Vermont. His career started with him playing church organ. He later played in an Army band in Korea (a parallel to famous JW in the Air Force band). He went to NY in 1954. He played a lot with Stan Getz. He moved to Miami in the late 50's, so he could have played in the pit for the broadway run of West Side Story before leaving for Florida. However, I've not seen any notes on him that indicated that he did any such work. He passed away 9 days ago (Dec 15, 2018) at the age of 89.

https://news.allaboutjazz.com/john-thms-williams-1929-2018.php

 

  

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16 hours ago, lairdo said:

 

 

I have recently found another John T. Williams, jazz pianist, active in NYC around the same time. (I am sure he is noted on these forums, so apologies for not looking first.) He was there in the 50's in NY and did a number of recordings.

 

John Thomas Williams was born January 28, 1929 in Vermont. His career started with him playing church organ. He later played in an Army band in Korea (a parallel to famous JW in the Air Force band). He went to NY in 1954. He played a lot with Stan Getz. He moved to Miami in the late 50's, so he could have played in the pit for the broadway run of West Side Story before leaving for Florida. However, I've not seen any notes on him that indicated that he did any such work. He passed away 9 days ago (Dec 15, 2018) at the age of 89.

https://news.allaboutjazz.com/john-thms-williams-1929-2018.php

 

  

 

Yes, I'm well aware of John Thomas Williams. Didn't know he had just passed away.

He was active on the East Coast jazz scene for a while, during the 50's, then got disenchanted and moved to Florida. He still did play every now and then and even helped with a Jazz Festival. The easiest way to be sure of which John T. Williams we are looking at is trough recording locations. John Thomas recorded either in New Jersey or New York. His only recording made in the west coast, was a live one, while on tour with Stan Getz. The problem is that both of them played for a lot of the same people, many of whom started on one coast and then moved to the other, ending up having two different pianist with the same name...

 

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11 hours ago, tannhauser said:

Much more interested in this than another Star Wars film!

 

Him completing a 9 film saga of his own creation or him adaptaing something written by someone else?

 

Easy decision. 

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To my knowledge, no composer ever has done a 9-film saga like this. Correct me if I'm wrong. It's a worthy feat to go out on. But again -- I don't know why this thread keeps running (and why I keep contributing to that). There is no official word on this. Let's just sit back and enjoy it for as long as we can.

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I prefer the pre-2009 Star Trek approach of letting various composers have a go at the series. It keeps things more eclectic while still remaining stylistically similar (Rosenthal's still achieves the romantic Trek sound, even if mainly in the closing minutes; original Courage theme binds the Enterprise saga) and the contributions of all those guys are just great. Of course, we can't expect Hollywood composers circa 2019 to deliver anything worthy of JW or on the level of the countless hours of Star Trek music or all those John Barry 007 scores. Those days are long gone.

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38 minutes ago, Horner's Dynamic Range said:

I prefer the pre-2009 Star Trek approach of letting various composers have a go at the series.

 

Doh. How could I forget Star Trek. Irony is that one of my holiday break project is to clean up my media closet, and I just organized the Star Trek CDs. Golly.

 

I think we think of Courage/Steiner/Goldsmith as a unit, then for sure that's pretty close in terms of impact. Goldsmith for sure on defining the sound of the 10 original trek movies and TNG + Voyager. My wife did not know that the Next Gen theme came from STTMP until yesterday. (She has only seen that film once or twice but has seen all the TV shows multiple times through.) Jerry did 5 of the films. Ironically of course, the most famous Khan was scored by young James Horner.

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Akira Ifukube scored 11 Godzilla films, a 12th film featured a score entirely comprised of his music from previous films. 6 other films used his music at various points. Plus he scored 11 films that featured possible tie ins to the Godzilla universe.

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