Black Sunday is here!

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Is that Max Zorin's airship on the cover of Black Sunday?

[MSM 126]

Anyone else who finds the hotel source cue irresistable? I am listining to the mp3 sample for already 1h and still can't get enough of it!

Also this score is another amazing example of how well one can recognize JW style period. I can hear Dracula in the End Titles, and of course 1941 and SW. Btw I also hear echoes of Quidditch Match

[fommes 153]

Awesome release indeed. Everybody get this NOW! If this sells well, perhaps it can be a start for ending the ridiculous limited edition games from some labels.

Actually it's not fair to blame the labels, some studios require a certain amount be pressed regardless of how many they might sell.

And then there are those titles that they must take a guess / gamble on how many they should press.

Even though some titles go quickly there are still a bunch left that haven't.

I did a quick count and came up with these, I was counting quickly so I might off by a few.

FSM has close to 200 releases and only 17 have sold out, Varese, not counting their regular releases, has around a 100 club releases with 60 sold out, Intrada has a combined 157 limited releases Signature & Special) with 108 sold out. LaLaLand has roughly 117 releases, both limited and unlimited and has only sold out 25. I know Bruce Kimmel is careful on the quantities he releases at Kritzerland and I would suspect almost all his titles have sold out.

Most of the titles that have sold out, not counting FSM, are in the 1000 to 2000 range. I'm almost willing to bet had they pressed 3000 of those, they would all be stuck with a ton of inventory and it would affect us, the listener.

Nice post - good counting! Still, I'm not so sure about that. I think it hurts FSM more, as they're the only label still doing the 'decent' thing on a constant basis, and so in the long run it might affect the listener (though the timely opening of some vaults may prevent that...). I get what the labels are trying to do (and am also aware of some contractual obligations and whatnot), and obviously it is absolutely defendable to limit some obscure titles to less that 3000. But their politics are more often than not much too aggressive. Varèse started doing it, unfortunately, and Intrada, which often takes great decisions but can really drop the ball too (on some Goldsmiths for instance), followed them. Look at how many Varese and Intrada titles are sold out, for instance; that's pretty ridiculous. I mean, it's good that these titles have been released, but I can imagine it's pretty off-putting for either new fans or older fans who don't have regular internet access or just miss out on some titles by not logging in every day (which one really needs to do). My point is that I don't buy Bruce Kimmel's reasoning for a minute (which he stubbornly applies to his own label now); of course I get it from a purely business-tactics point of view, but it's not really thinking long term for the whole of the niche you're working in. For instance: had a lot of titles not been so low in pressings, granted they would have definitely sold less (though happily the climax of the limited edition frenzy seems to be behind us), but 1) I can't imagine they would have sold all that much less - and cértainly not in the long term - and 2) there would be other titles that would have been sold out instead (only look at some of the FSM titles that are still in print!).

[publicist 4,643]

When things sellout, people just download this stuff from the internet. At least a cursory glance at the google-blogsearch results for 'baby secret lost legend Goldsmith' seems to suggest as much.

It is illegal, i know, but it's really nothing else than the old copying it from a friend made easier.

[Jay 37,322]

Alright, so I'm going to pair my order for Black Sunday with 2 other JW scores that I don't own to get $1 shipping from moviemusic.com

Out of these, which do people here recommend most?

-Checkmate

-John Goldfarb, Please Come Home!

-A Guide For The Married Man

-Goodbye, Mr. Chips

-The Cowboys

-Images

-Cinderella Liberty

-The Man Who Loved Cat Dancing

-The Witches Of Eastwick

[Ollie 1,059]

Nice post - good counting! Still, I'm not so sure about that. I think it hurts FSM more, as they're the only label still doing the 'decent' thing on a constant basis, and so in the long run it might affect the listener (though the timely opening of some vaults may prevent that...). I get what the labels are trying to do (and am also aware of some contractual obligations and whatnot), and obviously it is absolutely defendable to limit some obscure titles to less that 3000. But their politics are more often than not much too aggressive. Varèse started doing it, unfortunately, and Intrada, which often takes great decisions but can really drop the ball too (on some Goldsmiths for instance), followed them. Look at how many Varese and Intrada titles are sold out, for instance; that's pretty ridiculous. I mean, it's good that these titles have been released, but I can imagine it's pretty off-putting for either new fans or older fans who don't have regular internet access or just miss out on some titles by not logging in every day (which one really needs to do). My point is that I don't buy Bruce Kimmel's reasoning for a minute (which he stubbornly applies to his own label now); of course I get it from a purely business-tactics point of view, but it's not really thinking long term for the whole of the niche you're working in. For instance: had a lot of titles not been so low in pressings, granted they would have definitely sold less (though happily the climax of the limited edition frenzy seems to be behind us), but 1) I can't imagine they would have sold all that much less - and cértainly not in the long term - and 2) there would be other titles that would have been sold out instead (only look at some of the FSM titles that are still in print!).

I can sympathize with the labels because I face similar problems at work, one of my hats is managing inventory. So I know how difficult it can be to satisfy enough people yet keep the costs down.

As far as the Goldsmith goes, it took Intrada 15 years to sell out of their original pressing of Inchon, which was pressed in limited numbers, so they pressed the same amount for the re-release.

The Sony Blue Max is still in print so they took a huge gamble by pressing 2500, given the economy and the rants of message board posters about reissuing older titles multiple times.

They had no choice on Baby, licensing only allowed them 3000. They managed to up the quantity for Boys From Brazil.

And don't forget, Wind And The Lion and Alien are non-limited releases.

It's like everything else, you are going to please some and you are going to disappoint some.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Alright, so I'm going to pair my order for Black Sunday with 2 other JW scores that I don't own to get $1 shipping from moviemusic.com

Out of these, which do people here recommend most?

-Checkmate

-John Goldfarb, Please Come Home!

-A Guide For The Married Man

-Goodbye, Mr. Chips

-The Cowboys

-Images

-Cinderella Liberty

-The Man Who Loved Cat Dancing

-The Witches Of Eastwick

Images

The Witches Of Eastwick

Cinderella Liberty

The Cowboys

You really can't go wrong with those 4, so I say take your pick from them. FYI though, Cinderella Liberty is Jazzy Johnny, so that may not be your cup of tea.

[Diego 21]

I'd say "Witches of Eastwick" and "Cowboys" both have the more familiar Williams sound most of us like around here.

[Jay 37,322]

I feel like I should also weigh my choice against how quickly the titles might go OOP. Checkmate, Guide, Chips, and Cinderella are all 3000 unit items. Perhaps I should snatch up before I get screwed out of them.

But then I wonder if owning every JW score is really worth it if I won't love the score... hmmm.

[Maglorfin 196]

I'd say "Witches of Eastwick" and "Cowboys" both have the more familiar Williams sound most of us like around here.

Seconded.

[fommes 153]

If you want to buy the ones that'll go out of print first, I'd snatch up Guide for the Married Man. Also The Cowboys (not on Varèse's site or Amazon anymore), Images, and other older FSMs like Cat Dancing and Golfarb.

If you go by recommendation: Checkmate, Married Man, Cowboys, Images, Cinderella Liberty, Witches of Eastwick. They're all good, really. Except perhaps parts of Goldfarb, but that's not nearly as bad as its reputation would have you suspect, only slightly less fun than Married Man.

[King Mark 3,626]

It depends if you like the "Johnny Williams comedy sound". I have a cut off point of 1970 for collecting everything

Post 1970:I buy every Williams score except the "adapted" scores (Mr.Chips,Tom Sawyer,Fiddler)

Pre-1970:I buy some of them and I can live with cdr's for the other ones

So I got Cinderella Liberty but I don't like it very much

[Ollie 1,059]

Black Sunday has arrived at my house today!!!!!

[Maglorfin 196]

Black Sunday has arrived at my house today!!!!!

So today must have been a very Bright Monday for you.

[Andy 4,091]

What a treat to find it in my mailbox too! I am loving the booklet. Sure these discs are pricey, but when you see the quality of the presentation, it makes the exploration of an unfamiliar score that much more fun.

[Wojo 2,453]

Did you guys pay extra for rush shipping or something? Or do you live a lot closer to their warehouse?

[King Mark 3,626]

I got a message that it's shipped

[Wojo 2,453]

I never got an email, but I did just check my account at SAE and both have shipped. I think my quartet of Goldsmith has actually arrived at my house, so I'm just an impatient little boy. I'll shut up now.

[King Mark 3,626]

the only time I got impatient is when it took a month for my Indy box to get to me

[Luke Skywalker 1,793]

that was a divine punishment.

Did you do something at that time to upset God?

[Andy 4,091]

I live in NY, ordered through Amazon. Not sure why it arrived so quickly.

[Joe Brausam 214]

Black Sunday has arrived at my house today!!!!!

Awesome! No shipping notice or anything for me yet.

[Ollie 1,059]

I had received Islands In The Stream the following Tuesday after it was announced so I thought I would check my new order status at SAE. They had shipped it and it was sitting at my house waiting for me, I called home when I saw the package would be delivered today.

Did you guys pay extra for rush shipping or something? Or do you live a lot closer to their warehouse?

No, you live closer than I do.

I ordered mine immediately after they announced it. They shipped mine priority mail in the flat rate box, I ordered a few other scores besides Black Sunday.

[Wojo 2,453]

It's no big deal. I am way behind in ripping CDs anyways.

[Diego 21]

I've been thinking that I really should get this, maybe order something more to save a bit on shipping, some Goldsmith maybe, I'm really curious about Rambo and Legend.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I just checked and my order has shipped. I'll probably get it tomorrow or the day after.

[Andy 4,091]

After my first listen, here are my initial impressions...

A solid average score. The sound quality is delightful, but the performance really makes you miss the LSO. I didn't expect this to be another Close Encounters or Star Wars. But it's missing... something. I am so grateful to be able to explore this time period in Williams' career, but I doubt this will get many rotations for me.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I've listened to bits and I'm not particularly impressed. I realize people wanted this, so good. And it's JW instead of another obscure Goldsmith score or some composer I don't even recognize. So again, good. But this may be JW in the late 70's, but it isn't Jaws, Star Wars, CE3K, Superman or even Dracula. It's fairly average. Family Plot is better, in my opinion. That's a score I actually want. Still, this is a good release for the high edition count, a previously unreleased score from JW's prime and the demand being there. WAY better than None But the Brave, which I'll never listen to again...

[Ollie 1,059]

Man you guys are hard to impress. I can't believe anyone would call this score average. Even if I didn't like John Williams I would be hard pressed to find any fault with it.

If Star Wars or CE3K hadn't been released in 1977, Black Sunday would have easily been the best score of that year.

[Diego 21]

I haven't listened to it, but come on, this is 1977 Williams, the man could sneeze and it would be a freaking masterpiece.

[King Mark 3,626]

It's the last "pre-Star Wars" score

[Andy 4,091]

I don't mean to be too hard on this score. Make no mistake, it is Williams. But after one listen, this falls far behind his other scores of that era.

Jaws was pre-Star Wars too, and yet had so many different moods and tones and nuances. Or look at CE3K, composed the same year - it had moments of tension, beauty, terror, sadness, wonder, whimsy, and fantasy. Black Sunday's tone felt very singular - driving, building tension. No doubt, Williams' emotional palette was dictated by the script.

It could be that I'm just not used to it, and perhaps with more listens, Black Sunday will reveal its treasures a little more to me.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Got it in the mail a couple hours ago. Starting to listen now, and I'm already in love with it.

"Commando Raid"

[Nemesis 244]

Lucky guys you are!! I have to wait over week for it

[Ollie 1,059]

It will be well worth the wait.

[crocodile 7,990]

Let's hope so. I had to delete my initial order (money problems). But I already placed another one so I should get it in ten days. I am not so familiar with the score (nor with the film). But from what I've heard it will probably be someting I'll like.

Karol

[Kendal_Ozzel 36]

Just got mine!

I was about to rip it, but apparently the track information isn't in the CDDB yet. Hmm. Guess I'll just listen to the CD for now. Barbaric!

[Ollie 1,059]

I submitted Black Sunday to the CDDB Monday night, along with 3 other scores.

It Must take awhile for the database to log these.

[Wojo 2,453]

Or there are regional databases that don't necessarily talk to each other.

I don't mess with CDDB. I either type track info myself, or import from text files culled from Amazon, the label's site, or other sources.

[Ollie 1,059]

Well I typed them in for myself but then figured, what the hell, and submitted them to the CDDB.

I know someone at FSM has been submitting the Rozsa box so I had a moment of kindness.

But to save time I use CDDB and make the adjustments needed.

[Nemesis 244]

It will be well worth the wait.

That, I know! I can't wait to listen to it in good sound quality!!

[Henry B 50]

This score is excellent. Really excellent. The only oddball track is "The Explosion (revised ending)." That sort of major key bombast sounds totally out of place. I suppose Williams only did it because of pressure from the studio.

[indy4 155]

Alright, so I'm going to pair my order for Black Sunday with 2 other JW scores that I don't own to get $1 shipping from moviemusic.com

Out of these, which do people here recommend most?

-Checkmate

-John Goldfarb, Please Come Home!

-A Guide For The Married Man

-Goodbye, Mr. Chips

-The Cowboys

-Images

-Cinderella Liberty

-The Man Who Loved Cat Dancing

-The Witches Of Eastwick

If you're only getting two, I'd say The Cowboys and Checkmate. The latter is jazzy, so like Koray said if you don't like that then don't get it. Cinderella Liberty is jazz, but it's more funky than Checkmate. I personally don't like it much. The Cowboys is written in the tradition of Williams' most famous. It is bombastic and brassy and exciting. Can't see how you could go wrong.

Images is a great one also. It is great to have as a "listen to how versatile JW can be," but there are some 5 star moments purely from a listening perspective also. The Witches of Eastwick is good, but I don't think it's great. And I don't have any of the others.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

The Cowboys, The Witches of Eastwick and Images...go with Cowboys and Images.

[Jay 37,322]

I decided to wait to see what Monday's Intrada is before ordering. If its something I want, my third choice will probably be one of the limited JW releases so I can be sure to get it before it goes OOP. Images, Cowboys, and Eastwick can wait.

[Chris ChrusherComix 46]

I was happily surprised when I received news of this release and ordered it quickly. I was also happy to receive it today!

The sound quality is - as usual for FSM - excellent. There are parts that I had not noticed before due to the varying quality of material that I have heard through the years. Also, having it so pristine makes it almost as good as having a whole new score. The liner notes and the alternate cues also answered my questions as to why it seemed as if there was a confusing amount of music near the end of the film that sometimes did and sometimes didn't add up with the film. Now I know - two different endings were composed! Sweet! It all makes sense now!

I had been starving for a new Williams release (what was the last one? None But The Brave? Been awhile, IMO), so this is an excellent one to get! IMO, this has been a somewhat underrated Williams score, probably because the lack of a legitimate release until now. I often work while listening to scores and I hadn't had much new of late. This now gives me something new to listen to.

I'd like to thank all of the people at FSM - including our own Neil, who must be having a great time working behind the scenes on this stuff - for doing this! It filled a huge hole in my Williams collection (those other versions can now take an archival storage spot in the back).

Now, as KM is always harping about, we need Family Plot!

Man you guys are hard to impress. I can't believe anyone would call this score average. Even if I didn't like John Williams I would be hard pressed to find any fault with it.

I agree. Perhaps because it isn't as melodic as other scores, but it certainly is a very good, intense, dramatic score.

[Jarbas 1]

Now, as KM is always harping about, we need Family Plot!

Man you guys are hard to impress. I can't believe anyone would call this score average. Even if I didn't like John Williams I would be hard pressed to find any fault with it.

I agree. Perhaps because it isn't as melodic as other scores, but it certainly is a very good, intense, dramatic score.

I fully agree with you! It's a obsessive score where the music follows the growing tension: from a simple - but effective - piano motiv to a bombastic full orchestral performance.

I always thought what Wiliams have done in another John Frankenheimer movie, Ronin (1998)...

[Ollie 1,059]

I listened to Black Sunday 3 times in a row last night. Man, it's some great stuff. Hearing it in stereo is such a revelation.

[Maglorfin 196]

I always thought what Wiliams have done in another John Frankenheimer movie, Ronin (1998)...

No hard feelings but I think he couldn't have done better than Elia Cmiral. IMHO what he did for this movie is a masterpiece and sadly one of very underrated scores. I often watch Ronin just to listen how wonderfully Cmiral's score matches this film's visuals.

[Jarbas 1]

I like this film very much and Elia Cmiral score is good for me... just curious about Williams would have done.