PIANOMUSICIAN1991 0 Posted April 2, 2010 Share Posted April 2, 2010 It is probably intentional, Williams would know that it was Stravinsky-like. A lot of his work is like other composers, but we are not to judge because we will never know if he was asked by the director to reproduce the music in some way or form? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted April 2, 2010 Share Posted April 2, 2010 As if HOOK's proven musical integrity is harmed by a simple Stawinsky quote.It is filled from left to right with little thefts, homages and plain self-plagiarism. The problem isn't the fact in itself, but that Williams couldn't distillate a convincing musical concept for the film - having endured it, no wonder, i'd say. It's just a musical candystore, where outright citation of whatever classical work just is drowned in sugary gloss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted April 3, 2010 Share Posted April 3, 2010 How dare you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted April 3, 2010 Share Posted April 3, 2010 Shocking, Q. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,326 Posted April 3, 2010 Share Posted April 3, 2010 I can't handle so much truth! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted April 3, 2010 Share Posted April 3, 2010 I can't handle so much truth!What do you think they pay me for? Truth needs a soldier!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted April 3, 2010 Share Posted April 3, 2010 The truth is out there, Agent Mulder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,326 Posted April 3, 2010 Share Posted April 3, 2010 I think I'm going to go for the blue pill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TownerFan 4,983 Posted April 4, 2010 Share Posted April 4, 2010 I love Banning Back Home. Which Grusin work is similar?Just listen to Grusin's "Mountain Dance":http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=856AKiIcrSUThe piece was used in the film Falling in Love, starring Robert De Niro and Meryl Streep. I always found quite ironic that Williams originally titled the piece "Yuppie Sounds". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,037 Posted April 4, 2010 Share Posted April 4, 2010 Williams' take on the material is better, but yeah, it's VERY similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TownerFan 4,983 Posted April 4, 2010 Share Posted April 4, 2010 This is clearly a case of temp track love from Spielberg, I guess. The similarity is brazen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus 390 Posted April 7, 2010 Share Posted April 7, 2010 Rather than particularly emulating Stravinsky's "The Firebird" (and certainly rather than paraphrasing it), I think what Williams does in "The Arrival of Tinkerbell" is pay hommage to the entire Rimsky-Korsakov "school" (Andrey Rimsky-Korsakov, the dedicatee of "The Firebird", was Stravinsky's teacher, and largely responsible for the "Russian" school of orchestration), as well as ballet music associated with Diaghilev and his Ballets Russes (this would include Ravel, Prokofiev, Markevich, Poulenc, and many others).It seems to me that Williams treats Tinkerbell as a quasi "prima ballerina" in a pseudo-ballet, informed by the scene's intense coreographics. Harmonically and texturally, the music gazes backwards, just as we the audience, through the eyes of a grown-up Pan, look "back" on the the adventures of a bygone era (visually made poignant by references to the old Disney film, the set-design of Wendy's house, Barrie's play, etc.). As the story unfolds, and Neverland becomes actual geography in real-time, Williams's approach also changes; "Rimsky-Korsakov"-isms (a.k.a. "early Stravinsky"-isms) are replaced with more "vintage Williams" orchestral playfulness, in a typical "Williams fairytale-esque" idiom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted April 7, 2010 Share Posted April 7, 2010 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pixie_twinkle 48 Posted April 8, 2010 Share Posted April 8, 2010 It's sorta like finding out your girlfriend's old love letters were copied from someone else's.You too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,326 Posted April 9, 2010 Share Posted April 9, 2010 I love Banning Back Home. Which Grusin work is similar?Just listen to Grusin's "Mountain Dance":http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=856AKiIcrSUThe piece was used in the film Falling in Love, starring Robert De Niro and Meryl Streep. I always found quite ironic that Williams originally titled the piece "Yuppie Sounds".Shocking! I'm starting to wonder if Williams ever composed a piece of music that isn't based on an existing piece of music. Am I a fan of the world's biggest recyclist? It feels as if my live has been one big lie! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted April 9, 2010 Share Posted April 9, 2010 I love Banning Back Home. Which Grusin work is similar?Just listen to Grusin's "Mountain Dance":http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=856AKiIcrSUThe piece was used in the film Falling in Love, starring Robert De Niro and Meryl Streep. I always found quite ironic that Williams originally titled the piece "Yuppie Sounds".Shocking! I'm starting to wonder if Williams ever composed a piece of music that isn't based on an existing piece of music. Am I a fan of the world's biggest recyclist? It feels as if my live has been one big lie!My long-standing love affair with this wicked and brilliant piece of musical genius that is BANNING BACK HOME is now shattered in all eternity.FOR SHAME, TOWNER! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 1,059 Posted April 9, 2010 Share Posted April 9, 2010 Every composer has copied from their peers, whether it be intentional or not.Frankly it's a non issue for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,326 Posted April 9, 2010 Share Posted April 9, 2010 A non-issue?!!!! It's like discovering after many years that the Picasso on your wall is a fake! Or if you're a woman, that the diamond ring you got on your wedding day is made of crystal! Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted April 9, 2010 Share Posted April 9, 2010 It's a non-issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,326 Posted April 9, 2010 Share Posted April 9, 2010 OMG, are you all infected?!It's a non-issue!!!!!!!!Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beowulf 4 Posted April 9, 2010 Share Posted April 9, 2010 I don't see [hear] the connection at all.From now on are we to say musical passages are "Stravinksky-esque" if they merely have flurries of woodwinds playing at high speeds?Tosh I say! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uni 306 Posted April 9, 2010 Share Posted April 9, 2010 Rather than particularly emulating Stravinsky's "The Firebird" (and certainly rather than paraphrasing it), I think what Williams does in "The Arrival of Tinkerbell" is pay hommage to the entire Rimsky-Korsakov "school" (Andrey Rimsky-Korsakov, the dedicatee of "The Firebird", was Stravinsky's teacher, and largely responsible for the "Russian" school of orchestration), as well as ballet music associated with Diaghilev and his Ballets Russes (this would include Ravel, Prokofiev, Markevich, Poulenc, and many others).It seems to me that Williams treats Tinkerbell as a quasi "prima ballerina" in a pseudo-ballet, informed by the scene's intense coreographics. Harmonically and texturally, the music gazes backwards, just as we the audience, through the eyes of a grown-up Pan, look "back" on the the adventures of a bygone era (visually made poignant by references to the old Disney film, the set-design of Wendy's house, Barrie's play, etc.). As the story unfolds, and Neverland becomes actual geography in real-time, Williams's approach also changes; "Rimsky-Korsakov"-isms (a.k.a. "early Stravinsky"-isms) are replaced with more "vintage Williams" orchestral playfulness, in a typical "Williams fairytale-esque" idiom.This was just what I was gonna say. . . . - Uni Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted April 9, 2010 Share Posted April 9, 2010 [ _____________ ] wrote what he wrote. Whining about plagiarism, unoriginality, and overall being a hack now isn't going to change anything.A) John WilliamsB) James HornerC) Hans ZimmerD) All of the above Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted April 10, 2010 Share Posted April 10, 2010 It's sorta like finding out your girlfriend's old love letters were copied from someone else's.You too?I use this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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