New Varese Star Trek the Deluxe Edition!

[Jay 37,323]

The problem is that the microphones are too closer to the instruments, so you get tend to hear very strongly whatever is playing loudest at the time and never really a sense of the whole orchestra in a room

I'd love if an orchestra did a re-recording on CD of like 70 minutes or so of the best cues

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

I guess a decent point of comparison would be like and "Plot Course" from the expanded ST:V and "Hangar Management"

Plot Course sounds a little more refined, a little sharper. Hangar Management sounds kinda dry/muddy and harsh.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Yep.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

Here's a comparison of some low end brass under the big man Jerry with some percussion underneath, and then followed by some trombones under the getting bigger man Giacchino, again with some (crazier) percussion underneath. One lets the sound breathe a little, the other just instantly records it in the mic for a dry asthmatic sound:

http://snd.sc/fAf8Hs

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Good and very fitting comparison.

The problem with Gia is, I can't really make out if he's using a big orchestra or just a medium one playing very loudly in a very small studio.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

I normally don't agree with much of anything you have to say on Giacchino...

But iyou must consider carpenter as a new career choice, because you hit that nail on the head!

[Jay 37,323]

It's not Giacchino's fault - his recording engineers are screwing him over

A nice recording by a new orchestra and chorus, properly recorded, would really make this score pop

[Ollie 1,059]

Yeah, that's not going to happen anytime soon.

[Jay 37,323]

There used to be more re-recordings back in the day, seems to never happen any more

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

It's not Giacchino's fault - his recording engineers are screwing him over

Really? Isn't he the one who hires these guys?

[ZackR 95]

I enjoy good re-recordings. I like hearing a fresh take on familiar material. You're right though; it doesn't happen much now.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

He loves Dan Wallin.

The problem is he grew up in the 60s and 70s to the warm and beautiful sound of analog.

Unfortunately the warm sound of analog loses all its beauty when forced to be reproduced in digital. Basically it boils down to Michael being too fanboy for his own good.

[Datameister 2,037]

Yeah, I don't doubt that he's getting the sound he wants...but my tastes differ from his. (Again, excluding projects like LOST, where that characteristic sound actually helps.) As I recall, he talks about this in the liner notes for The Incredibles. They really wanted to replicate the way scores used to be recorded. Incidentally, I think that score sounds pretty good, but still...it doesn't sound so much like an analog recording from the 70s as it does a Giacchino recording from the 2000s.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

We need a new Gerhardt or Kunzel.

[Marian Schedenig 8,178]

It's especially bad with the trumpets in Star Trek. I think part of that is just the musicians...I'm sorry, but they just sound awful and shrill. Compare that to the brilliant thrill of listening to the trumpets in something like Jurassic Park or Hook. It's a whole different instrument.

Totally differently orchestrated, too. I think the recording of Giacchino's scores is in keeping with the way they are orchestrated, and since Lost he has favoured that harsh, dry "Herrmann sound" (though of course Herrmann was much more varied and only used that on certain scores). I don't think there's anything wrong with it, I think it's consistent and intentional.

I do, however, hope that Giacchino comes out of his comfort zone again soon. What was perfect for Lost can get old elsewhere pretty quickly.

[OneBuckFilms 319]

Dan Wallin actually records onto analogue tape initially, precisely to get that warmth of sound, then the score is transferred into the digital realm after that (I suspect prior to mixing).

I know Giacchino likes that old-school quality in the sound, as there is a warmth that is lacking in digital recordings.

Of course, we all know the dradeoff of this: clarity and brightness. It's simply not as pristine and bright this way.

I guess it's a matter of taste as far as Giacchino is concerned. I personally have no issue with it, as I said, but YMMV. My preference would probably be for a digital recording, ala Lost Season 6, but I respect Giacchino's choice here.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Anologue is dead! Gia should get with the times!

[John Crichton 4]

I agree that Star Trek doesn't have the best in the way of sound quality/clarity, but it's still a hell of a score. It must have had something to do with the larger orchestra, because I remember being struck by how good Let Me In sounded. Particularly the strings, very crisp and clear.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

Dan Wallin actually records onto analogue tape initially, precisely to get that warmth of sound, then the score is transferred into the digital realm after that (I suspect prior to mixing).

I know Giacchino likes that old-school quality in the sound, as there is a warmth that is lacking in digital recordings.

Of course, we all know the dradeoff of this: clarity and brightness. It's simply not as pristine and bright this way.

I guess it's a matter of taste as far as Giacchino is concerned. I personally have no issue with it, as I said, but YMMV. My preference would probably be for a digital recording, ala Lost Season 6, but I respect Giacchino's choice here.

That's not possible anymore. To my knowledge there's no Hollywood tape manufacturers remaining anymore.

I think even The Incredibles which was recorded on tape, they had to search high and low for the tapes, and back then there was one company still manufacturing them.

[OneBuckFilms 319]

Dan Wallin actually records onto analogue tape initially, precisely to get that warmth of sound, then the score is transferred into the digital realm after that (I suspect prior to mixing).

I know Giacchino likes that old-school quality in the sound, as there is a warmth that is lacking in digital recordings.

Of course, we all know the dradeoff of this: clarity and brightness. It's simply not as pristine and bright this way.

I guess it's a matter of taste as far as Giacchino is concerned. I personally have no issue with it, as I said, but YMMV. My preference would probably be for a digital recording, ala Lost Season 6, but I respect Giacchino's choice here.

That's not possible. To my knowledge there's no Hollywood tape manufacturers remaining anymore.

Someone makes them. The behind-the-scenes features on the Star Trek (2009) DVD and Blu-Ray show Dan Wallin getting a tape (reel-to-reel variety, it loks like), and explicitly mentions recording it on analogue tape.

Either there is someone manufacturing tape, whether in hollywood or not, or there is a lot of tape left over that Dan Wallin can obtain from somewhere.

Whether percieved as possible or not, it happens to be true.

I agree that Star Trek doesn't have the best in the way of sound quality/clarity, but it's still a hell of a score. It must have had something to do with the larger orchestra, because I remember being struck by how good Let Me In sounded. Particularly the strings, very crisp and clear.

I don't think Dan Wallin was utilized on that one (I could be wrong), and I believe someone else, and not Tim Simonec, conducted the score.

The far lower budget that film likely had may have changed who Giacchino could get to record it, etc. It might not even be a Hollywood recorded score.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

Hmmmm interesting. Guess my data is outdated. Or he has a stash somewhere.