What Is The Last Score You Listened To? (older scores)

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Indeed!

[crocodile 7,983]

 A Palace Upon the Ruins (Selected Works) by Howard Shore. Really enjoying this disc. Isn't it funny how Howard Shore's concert pieces tend to be more accessible and enjoyable than majority of his film work? If Shore were to stick to writing that kind of music for the rest of his life (and releasing it, of course!) I'd be a happy person.

 

Karol

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Star Trek: Generations complete score

[Dixon Hill 4,232]

This one.  Newman is on a level that few others reach.

 

 

[Disco Stu 15,495]

The Fury - John Williams

 

Swoon!  I love this score more every time I hear it!  I might just play "For Gillian" on repeat all day.

[publicist 4,643]

THE OMEN: 40th Anniversary Edition - Jerry Goldsmith

 

Having not owned the 2001 edition i haltingly took a chance on this old Goldsmith warhorse which i always respected but beyond the obvious highlights (Ave Satani, The Dogs Attack, The KIller Storm) never found it much fun. Or rather, turned to the infinitely more groovy 'Damien'. A study of the now complete (?) score reveals one of Goldsmith's most watertightly constructed fabrics - he had almost no match in regards to pitch-perfect organization of his themes-and-motifs even if the scores might not always be the greatest. 

 

So what makes the 'The Omen' a great work - imho - are not so much the fierce Stravinsky impersonations (Symphony of Psalms) alone but their interplay with the love theme, that is cunningly employed as obvious 'pop' tune but also deconstructed into a chilling premonition motif and stripped down to its basics as counterpoint to the main 'Rise of Satan' material that manifests itself ever more agitatedly in its chanting and shrieking mixed choruses that act as the movie's musical Cassandra calls. While the effect is very upfront it of course reveals the Hollywood claptrap behind it: compare that to the hushed tones of 'The Exorcist' and how it much more successfully freaks you out (Donner and Goldsmith probably rightly decided that the rather trashy but glossy movie should be more traditional in style because the overt religious nature of the story might indeed have aroused some patrons into torching the cinemas). 

 

PS: there is a really cool wind machine effect in some of the chanting that was omitted on the original album; while it probably is too long now, there is a surprising number of little cues that are rather cool.

 

Jagged Edge - John Barry (with  little help by synthmaster Jonathan Elias)

 

 

A prototypical Barry theme with the usual peculiar-but-great-because-of-it modulations fondles us with warm jazz tones before being wrestled down by harsh synth work heralding 'Hollywood Mid 80's!'. Fairlight takes front and center for most of the running time and while it is effective and occasionally even interesting thriller film music, there's not much reason to own it on record (which is as often with Barry repetitious beyond belief). The theme is great. File it under 'one for the eternal Barry compilation'.

[crocodile 7,983]

1 hour ago, publicist said:

THE OMEN: 40th Anniversary Edition - Jerry Goldsmith

 

So what makes the 'The Omen' a great work - imho - are not so much the fierce Stravinsky impersonations (Symphony of Psalms) alone but their interplay with the love theme, that is cunningly employed as obvious 'pop' tune but also deconstructed into a chilling premonition motif and stripped down to its basics as counterpoint to the main 'Rise of Satan' material that manifests itself ever more agitatedly in its chanting and shrieking mixed choruses that act as the movie's musical Cassandra calls. While the effect is very upfront it of course reveals the Hollywood claptrap behind it: compare that to the hushed tones of 'The Exorcist' and how it much more successfully freaks you out (Donner and Goldsmith probably rightly decided that the rather trashy but glossy movie should be more traditional in style because the overt religious nature of the story might indeed have aroused some patrons into torching the cinemas). .

You describe my sentiments exactly. It is actually the love theme and its development that makes the score.

 

And no, it isn't absolutely complete. Film versions of two cues are missing. Apparently they are completely lost. Nothing that major.

 

Karol

[Kühni 485]

.

[Dixon Hill 4,232]

Ah, what once was so promising....

 

 

 

 

[Brónach 1,301]

  Kamen's themes were awesome. I'd love a long X-Men action sequence that used Kamen's, Ottman's and Powell's themes in sequence just for kicks.

 

I also like how Kamen's theme seems to sprout from the animated show, and Ottman's from Kamen's. Powell's work is an outlier but really fun even if a little gray. Jackman's stuff is just completely out of place compared to the rest.

[publicist 4,643]

14 hours ago, crocodile said:

And no, it isn't absolutely complete. Film versions of two cues are missing. Apparently they are completely lost. Nothing that major.

 

And even with the intricate compositional approach Goldsmith employs the release is proof that complete releases are MUSICALLY seldom a good idea: too much repetition, too many cues that are purely in service of a short film scene without adding much to the basic core. And 'The Omen' is one of the better ones in that regard.

 

As for my final and a bit more positive impression of JNH's latest:

 

It has a few major weak spots and is in dire need of pruning but as far as full-blown traditional fantasy scores go, this may be as good as it gets nowadays. This mark is earned mostly by one virtue that other candidates in this category traditionally now lack which is a solid and fun thematic base (minus the banal 'Polar Express' lift that underperforms for the last third of the album).

 

That a lot of it is second-hand in nature shouldn't really bother many - it didn't in case of Williams' first two Potters - as there is a sizeable amount of colourful, painterly writing in a grand and sweeping style that after Horner's passing almost seems to be a greeting card from a bygone era.

 

'Fantastic Beasts' comes without the authoritative academic Williams polish but JNH actually manages quite well to emulate the frothy, Dickensian Potter universe (very obviously in cues like 'There Are Witches Among Us 'and 'Tina Takes Newt in' but also the vigorous 'The Erumpent' or the more faux-dramatic 'The Demiguise and the Occamy'). The little rag tags for the New York 1920's setting at least give these parts some flavour beyond the 'Home Alone (2)' feel, the one score Williams & Co. since 1992 always use as a template for this sort of thing (the first 'Home Alone' remains more unique due to a more chamber-sized approach). Throw in some more clearly identifiable JNH into mix (the use of choir, the more modern, sequencer-ized rhythmic base, the electronic enhancement, the bouncy fanfares) and you got a great first half and beyond.

 

The last third introduces quite a bit of homely sentiment and grand orchestral gestures that are unfortunately not as successful: minus the playful ditties of the first half, the broad strokes of the purposely HUGE and operatic parts feel as empty as Hollywood blockbuster scoring is bound to be these days. it's bigness for bigness's sake and betrays the more charming first half. Apart from borrowing the main theme from 'Polar Express' wholesale (which in turn reeks of 'Edward Scissorhands', a perennial temp track favourite for these kind of movies) there's just not much to a whopper of a cue like 'Relieve Him of His Wand / Newt Releases the Thunderbird / Jacob’s Farewell' (almost 13 minutes, few of which you really need).

 

What really saves the album release from the shortcomings are the DeLuxe edition's suites based on the main material so you can open and finish the score like a good Williams album ('A Man and His Beasts' is really the overture, while the two-part end title is a good closure with the wonderful reworking of the 'Kowalski Rag' can be put as either a coda or in the middle as a 'Dobby The House Elf' kind of breather).

 

So, with a bit of effort in editing you got quite a great christmas score in your hands. My advice for editing mainly concerns dropping at least half of the shorter cues on both albums - quite easy to figure out which are mere padding, like 4, 5 and 8 - and edit the middle half of 'There are Witches s among us', lose the first two minutes of 'Tina and Newt Trial' so the result will be a nice 70 minute album. 

[Incanus 5,713]

Home Alone by John Williams: The original 1990 album. While the current weather condictions certainly do their best not to promote Christmassy feelings (high speed winds and merciless torrents of rain), this CD always will. The initial incarnation of this soundtrack is still a delightful listening experience with its sidesteps from the score material into Christmassy pop songs by variety of artists and offers nearly all the major musical setpieces from the film, the whole package tied around with a bow of Williamsian group of infectious themes. It definitely doesn't come as a huge surprise that I consider this the quintessential Yuletide score and with its blend of carols new and old and its effortless alternating between festive holiday mood and sombre reflection with a little comedy thrown into the mix.

 

 

[Cantus Venti 13]

22 hours ago, publicist said:

 

It has a few major weak spots and is in dire need of pruning but as far as full-blown traditional fantasy scores go, this may be as good as it gets nowadays.

 

Imo, things will no longer be just "as good as it gets nowadays" if only we not praise underservingly things as more than they are. We feel like we have to be thankful for new movies and media because we don't want them to stop making things. But that's a false concept. Nobody is going to stop making things, they're either going to get more competitive if we be honest with what we see and have seen before, or just push out what everyone's simply going to lie down and tolerate. We have this incessant need to like and appreciate everything that comes out new more than it should be, and not admit that there's an underlying problem and change of standards. The more we just go along with the crowd, like what's happened with the hip hop movement or Netflix's slowly and monopolizingly terrible movie selection, there's never going to be any new growth of standard, because the checkpoint is not being preserved but abandoned. We'll all just be trained to be obedient and accepting of whatever they jumble together, to be thankful and give them our $10.

 

But this is just my opinion, I don't really give a * if it receives a thousand dislikes.

 

People have this way of forcing them to think things are better than they really are, even saying "it's the best thing ever" when it comes out. If you really enjoy, for instance, Fantastic Beasts and the standard it sets, that's fine! I'm actually 100% open and willing to enjoy something new more than the old. But when I open my mind, and at the end of the day I still know I don't like it, I just don't. I want to give John Williams 20 more years of my life to use as his own.

[publicist 4,643]

I agree, but semantically different things may be read into 'as good as it gets': times and aesthetics have changed and the spectator cannot divorce his own imprint from his judgment, even if it is as falsifying a 'quality' indicator as are the usual uncritical hosiannas. Also, if major filmmaking has changed to the degree that the role of music has been dramatically shifted (sound design, obedient instead of shaping) at some point there must be an acknowledgement how composer X operating under said conditions still came up to 60% emulating the 'better' older role model and how's that only a cause for grumbling?

 

I never understood the need for FSM style whining how nothing tops Golden Age, or the constant nagging of the old farts about how Goldsmith was never good again after 'The Sand Pebbles' and so on. There is enough room for trashing a score that's objectively not up to the task without drowning the whole litter. A certain elasticity in regards to reviewing current stuff is absolutely necessary, i think,

 

 

[Cantus Venti 13]

54 minutes ago, publicist said:

Also, if major filmmaking has changed to the degree that the role of music has been dramatically shifted (sound design, obedient instead of shaping) at some point there must be an acknowledgement how composer X operating under said conditions still came up to 60% emulating the 'better' older role model and how's that only a cause for grumbling?

 

Sure, though precisely what you say there is what I'm talking about. A shift in the role of X, Y and Z is determined by the audience's tolerance of this shift, else they be designed by production more thoughtfully and desirably to meet the change in expectation. Designed in another way. Evolution only creates what works, it doesn't create what works best. This scientific rule has only been at the forefront of film since its existence, its competitive evolution, and if you're okay with how the industry is shifting and what roles are being sacrificed, that's fine. It's your elasticity. But there are many alternate routes for art to take, in fact, it's unlimited. There is no need for too much tolerance. At the end of the day, the way movies evolve is the audiences' call, kind of similar to what president we're stuck with.

[publicist 4,643]

'Tolerance' means putting up with it - older audiences mostly aren't (apart from 40-years plus guys watching bad comic movies because they read this stuff as youngsters) but younger ones just accept stuff for what it is. This still doesn't make a more than fair JNH cause for distress, though. I wouldn't have written as long about it if it only were at the level of, say, Debney's 'Jungle Book'. It is genuinely better crafted even if it has some problems.

[Cantus Venti 13]

My overall point hinges on that things will always change and evolve, and we have to let it. What I'm hinting at is that, things can either evolve with more-or-less intelligent guidance and creative mind, or with tolerance in just letting it spiral down into whatever primitive form it wants to take (much like film music that doesn't do anything really new but yet we treat it like it is brand new, more evolved and improved. (When it's actually being sat out for the garbage man to take next week and the producers have it all planned--this is just my theory though .)) Somehow we fool ourselves with all these arguments and ideals that we're experiencing an improved future. In reality, the existence of anything is a bell curve. It grows, evolves, and then slowly devolves and becomes extinct. Sometimes however we can alter this movement for a short while and make things even better, if we preserve all the amazing knowledge from the past few centuries, and exercise good judgment from history, teach the younger and try to grow from there. These "standards of the time" being touted, aren't as much standards as they are merely circumstantial and ambiguous in a response to a change in technology, if even that.

 

Anyway like I say, if you like something, it's not for me to say it's objectively one way or another. We all have our opinions.

[publicist 4,643]

Exactly. And in said case it's more like cannons against sparrows since i see much more dire problems in music personnel per se (as per the evolvement you cite) than in a somewhat compromised but rather good effort by a reliable old craftsman.

 

The new kids on the block that do not have sufficient musical experience/training are the bigger culprit here: in a recent commercial for his filmmusic course, Hans Zimmer practically invited guys who just like to play with their gear (npi) if they only like movies and 'story' (no subtext, nuance or anything like that): a gross oversimplification that if not outright stating it at least signifies that 'creativity' and 'ideas' live in an universe beyond musical training, reading and understanding music history and a hard-earned craftmanship in musical theory (an ideal case, for sure). The target group are guys like Giacchino (at best) or Djawadi & Co. (at worst). 

 

That's where we are losing out.

[Brónach 1,301]

I want originality, and music that's not boring, and good musical craftmanship. I don't specifically need "exactly what 70's Goldsmith would have done", there's room for many kinds of music within what I like. Although it seems that the folks out there making big blockbusters don't usually share my point of view on interesting music and how to use it.

 

 

That said, Moana has extremely catchy stuff by Opetaia Foa'i and Lin-Manuel Miranda.

 

 

[Bilbo 3,709]

Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them

Edwars Scissorhands

Spotlight

Legends of the Fall. 

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Batman (1989) complete score and Prince songs

Batman Returns complete score

Twilight Zone: The Movie complete score

Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets OST
Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith (Trent's edit)

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Trents edit is good, isnt it?

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I'm not a fan of mock-ups or DVD rips, but yes, it's good.

[publicist 4,643]

 

Lame even by Silvestri standards (that aren't markedly high since at least 15 years). 

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them - James Newton Howard

 

Like, six times in the last 24 hours.  I haven't done a complete 180 on a soundtrack like this in quite a while. Mea culpa.

[Incanus 5,713]

Agora by Dario Marianelli

[Bespin 8,475]

Home Alone 25th Expanded Set (we got our first snow yesterday in Montréal!)

[Jay 37,281]

Yea we got our first snow Sunday night and again Monday morning.  It's already gone

[Bespin 8,475]

I have the melody of Star of Bethlehem stick in the head since yesterday, thanks a lot Mr. Williams!

[Jay 37,281]

A classic melody!

[Bilbo 3,709]

I couldn't believe it wasn't a classic Xmas carol 

[publicist 4,643]

It's even better than some of the actual carols.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Hot take: I think "Christmas Star" is better!

[Jay 37,281]

They're both really good!  As is Somewhere In My Memory and Merry Christmas, Merry Christmas!

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Oh man those scores so effing good.  I'll break them out this weekend for sure.  I have a tradition of watching the first Home Alone every Thanksgiving night.

[Bilbo 3,709]

Anyone else see the Philosopher's Stone as being a Xmas film? I mean, it isn't a Xmas film, but for some reason it seems the appropriate time of year to watch it. I wouldn't necessarily say that about the rest of them but the first one just has something about it that way.

 

 

anyway:

 

Spotlight

The Amazing Spider-Man. 

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Just now, Bilbo Skywalker said:

Anyone else see the Philosopher's Stone as being a Xmas film? I mean, it isn't a Xmas film, but for some reason it seems the appropriate time of year to watch it. I wouldn't necessarily say that about the rest of them but the first one just has something about it that way.

 

Yes. Part of it obviously has to do with the fact it was released in December, and also that there's a section of the film taking place during Christmas time.

[Jay 37,281]

1 minute ago, Bilbo Skywalker said:

Anyone else see the Philosopher's Stone as being a Xmas film? I mean, it isn't a Xmas film, but for some reason it seems the appropriate time of year to watch it. I wouldn't necessarily say that about the rest of them but the first one just has something about it that way.

 

Totally agree

[Bilbo 3,709]

1 minute ago, BloodBoal said:

 

Yes. Part of it obviously has to do with the fact it was released in December, and also that there's a section of the film taking place during Christmas time.

 

It was released November!

PS in November and Fellowship in December. And oh how I'm old now ?

[Disco Stu 15,495]

I was 14 in November/December 2001, and oh what a glorious time for a nerdy fantasy fan it was!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Bilbo 3,709]

2 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

I was 14 in November/December 2001, and oh what a glorious time for a nerdy fantasy fan it was!

 

I had just reached the grand old age of 10. 

[Disco Stu 15,495]

1 minute ago, BloodBoal said:

 

Yeah. Good ol' times... And now, 15 years later, we get stuff like Doctor Strange and Fantastic Beasts...

 

Well, as you know, I quite liked Doctor Strange.  And I will guarantee you that 14 year old me would have fucking loved it.

[Bespin 8,475]

I always wait for the first snow before listening to Home Alone score.

 

That's exactly the same with Jaws when in summer I wait for the first shark.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Just now, Bespin said:

I always wait for the first snow for listening to Home Alone score.

 

That's a luxury you can afford because you live in the bleak, wintry North of the continent.  Here, in the mid-Atlantic region we might not get a first snow until late January/early-February if we're unlucky.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Disco Stu 15,495]

1 minute ago, BloodBoal said:

 

Stew's parents: "Tell us, Stew, which movie would you rather see if we go to the cinema tonight? The Fellowship Of The Ring or Doctor Strange?"

 

14-year-old Stew: "DOCTOR STRANGE! DOCTOR STRANGE! YAY!!!!"

 

 

I hadn't discovered drugs yet, how else would I have been expected to simulate tripping balls?

[Jay 37,281]

6 minutes ago, Bespin said:

I always wait for the first snow before listening to Home Alone score.

 

That's exactly the same with Jaws when in summer I wait for the first shark.

 

[Incanus 5,713]

1 hour ago, publicist said:

It's even better than some of the actual carols.

Indeed! Star of Bethlehem is really a classy piece of writing from the Maestro. Its more sombre mood appeals to me very much. A lot of the Finnish carols are similarly serious in tone.

 

 

[Romão 2,274]

Indeed, Mikko, I'm also very partial to the more sombre Christmas pieces of music.

 

This one arranged by Vaughan Williams I find particularly moving:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUfcUreoZPw