Star Wars Prequel Music Resource (part 2)

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

the LSO are pretty good performers...thye may habe been able to replicate that cue since its the same cuesheet...

[Giftheck 916]

the LSO are pretty good performers...thye may habe been able to replicate that cue since its the same cuesheet...

Replicating the waveform though is next to impossible. I've checked - granted the slight differences between DVD-quality audio and the album, the waveform is a rough fit, and not a loose rough either - the waveform actually quite firmly fits (although again the quality is a factor)

In fact, I will upload the pieces and let you listen to them (although tomorrow as I am just about to run out of Internet time)

[Datameister 2,042]

I suspect that you may be overanalysing this.

Is there a logical (and musical) reason for a transition between cues at that point in the film?

Has someone definitively proved that the 'End Credits' opening is tracked from TPM? I remain unconvinced!

Tracked:

Not tracked:

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

maybe its' just me but those waveforms are not 100% identical?

[Datameister 2,042]

They're not, but they're closer than you could ever get with two distinct performances. The differences could be easily accounted for by different mixing, encoding, ripping, or whatever. It could maybe just be a coincidence if it were only this one part of the waveform that looked similar, but the whole thing is like this. Peaks and troughs in the same places, taking the same shape, just with minor discrepancies. You couldn't do that if you did two consecutive takes with the same exact setup and you were trying...let alone recording on different days three years apart, probably with some of the musicians (and physical instruments) being different and the setup of the microphones being slightly different and with all the human imperfections that make music wonderful...and with no intent to even try to replicate the exact same waveform.

Case closed, as far as I'm concerned.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

i suppose i have to believe you.

my musical training is zero

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

It's amazing how close the three prequel main titles are to each other. Could swear they're exactly the same thing!

[Datameister 2,042]

Not sure if that was sarcasm, but in case it wasn't - and for the benefit of anyone who doesn't know - the TPM main titles were indeed re-used in AOTC and ROTS.

[Jim Ware 526]

They're not, but they're closer than you could ever get with two distinct performances. The differences could be easily accounted for by different mixing, encoding, ripping, or whatever. It could maybe just be a coincidence if it were only this one part of the waveform that looked similar, but the whole thing is like this. Peaks and troughs in the same places, taking the same shape, just with minor discrepancies. You couldn't do that if you did two consecutive takes with the same exact setup and you were trying...let alone recording on different days three years apart, probably with some of the musicians (and physical instruments) being different and the setup of the microphones being slightly different and with all the human imperfections that make music wonderful...and with no intent to even try to replicate the exact same waveform.

Case closed, as far as I'm concerned.

Agreed! Thanks for the waveforms.

[Datameister 2,042]

No problem.

[Jilal 569]

I think the 6m5 insert is the music after "6m5 Padme Falls" and before "7m1 Dooku Versus Obi-Wan".

There isn't any room in reel six for that to happen - the last note of 6M5 overlaps the reel change. This score seems to have music running over *all* the reel changes; I wonder if this was an explicit instruction from Lucas given the digital nature of the picture? The Phantom Menace is very different in this regard, with music clearly stopping and starting at the end of each reel and the beginning of the next.

Incidentally, 'HH' stands for Hot House Music, whose services appear to have been used for music preparation. The Revenge of the Sith cue sheet has similar designations (jkms - Jo Ann Kane Music Service) for cues assembled from pre-existing material.

Oh, ok then. I bet that's why the track time of "Dooku versus Obi-Wan" is 2:21; i thought John did compose music for Obi-Wan being knocked out but George didn't like it and he used the intro for "Zam Chase pt. 1" with some timpani hits and a choir layered over it.

[Giftheck 916]

I'm trying to figure out the timings of 4M4 and 4M5 of AOTC. In total, the length of both cues is 5:44. But the album track is 6:56, so I'm wondering if the Duel of the Fates piece is a separate insert recording.

[Trent B 337]

I'm trying to figure out the timings of 4M4 and 4M5 of AOTC. In total, the length of both cues is 5:44. But the album track is 6:56, so I'm wondering if the Duel of the Fates piece is a separate insert recording.

I don't think it is, I think the times on this PDF are off. I made a post regarding those two cues here.

http://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=19354&view=findpost&p=706605

The first few notes of "Obi-Wan Eavesdropping" were edited out of the film but I do think it would start where I stated in that post.

[Giftheck 916]

Fair enough... it could be that those times are estimated but they were obviously were different to what was recorded.

I can't seem to find where the rest of 3M8 (Rainy Ramp/Anakin's Nightmare) is and where 3M3 (The First Kiss) is in the game files (if they're there at all).

[Trent B 337]

Fair enough... it could be that those times are estimated but they were obviously were different to what was recorded.

I can't seem to find where the rest of 3M8 (Rainy Ramp/Anakin's Nightmare) is and where 3M3 (The First Kiss) is in the game files (if they're there at all).

Expect a PM from me shortly.

[Jay 37,352]

Does anyone maintain a list of which video game files contain music from which AOTC cues? I don't think I've seen one since Henry edited the main post of the first iteration of this thread.

If someone could post a current list, I think that would be most useful.

[Henry B 50]

I still have that saved on my computer, but it's complete out of date. Nothing from TFU or TFU2.

[Jay 37,352]

If anyone would like to volunteer to put am up-to-date list together, it would be most appreciate!

I'm just talking about AOTC for now - obviously TPM and ROTS lists would be much more involved.

[Jay 37,352]

I'm nowhere near the expert you guys are on these three scores, but allow me to add what I know about AOTC:

OST Track 03 "Zam The Assassin and The Chase Through Coruscant:

0:00-0:24 (0:24) = The beginning of 1m6 Zam's Dirty Trick

The middle 2:36 of 1m6 Zam's Dirty Trick is missing from the OST

0:24-1:02 (0:38) = The ending of 1m6 Zam's Dirty Trick

1:02-4:20 (3:28) = 1m7A Zam Chase Pt.1 (complete)

4:20-7:27 (3:07) = 1m7B Zam In Pursuit (complete)

7:27-10:17 (2:50) = The beginning of 2m1 Zam Is Eliminated

The middle 0:25 of 2m1 Zam Is Eliminated is missing from the OST (Separatist Theme section)

10:17-end (0:50) = The ending of 2m1 Zam Is Eliminated

The final note heard at the end of OST track 6 (3m7 The Dinner Scene) was meant to segue directly to the opening note of 3m8 Rainy Ramp and Anakin's Nightmare (OST 8 at 2:29)

OST Track 10 Return To Tatooine:

0:00-4:09 (4:09) = 4m4 The Arrival At Tatooine (The pdf has an error listing it as 3:11, it should read 4:11)

4:09-end (2:47) = 4m5 Obi-Wan Eavesdropping

OST Track 11 The Tusken Camp and The Homestead:

0:00-2:43 (2:43) = 4m6 Rescuing Mother

2:43-4:00 (1:17) = 4m7 Exacting Revenge

4:00-end (1:54) = 5m1A Carrying Mother Home

OST Track 12 Love Pledge and The Arena:

0:00-2:37 (2:37) = 6m1 Love Pledge

2:37-6:58 (4:21) = 6m2 Entrance Of The Monsters

6:58-7:10 (0:12) = The beginning of 6m5 Padme Falls

The middle 0:26 of 6m5 Padme Falls is missing from the OST (Though we have it in perfect quality in Galactic Battlegrounds: The Clone Campaign)

7:10-end (1:33) = The ending of 6m5 Padme Falls

6m2 Sweetener is the short timpani roll used to begin 6m2 in the film since the whole beginning of the cue was dropped. You can hear it at DVD time 1:48:26-1:48:31

6m5 Insert is the 20 second cue that precedes 6m5 Padme Falls that we also have in perfect quality in Galactic Battlegrounds: The Clone Campaign

OST Track 13 Confrontation With Count Dooku and Finale:

0:00-0:32 (0:32) = The beginning of 7m3 Finale

An 0:20 chunk of 7m3 Finale is missing from the OST here. Most of the missing chunk can be heard in the film when Dooku's ship solar thingies open up

0:32-1:15 (0:43) = The next released portion of 7m3 Finale

An 0:25 chunk of 7m3 Finale is missing from the OST here. This is the Emperor's Theme section

1:15-2:59 (1:44) = The next released portion of 7m3 Finale

2:59-3:37 (0:38) = 7m3 Insert (The Imperial March re-write that replaces WIlliams' original Finale)

3:37-4:43 (1:06) = The end of 7m3 Finale

4:43-5:36 (0:53) = End Credits [TRACKED FROM TPM!!], followed by the ending of 1m6 Zam's Dirty Trick

5:36-end (5:06) = End Credit [with some parts missing, stay tuned]

I've also created this spreadsheet that should help explain things:

https://spreadsheets...aWc&output=html

As you can see, my only video game knowledge stops after that first video game we got with the two 6m5 pieces, so I need help completing the spreadsheet with other video game file names - then we'll have a true editing guide

Check it out and let me know what you think!

[Jilal 569]

Dooku vs Obi-Wan can be found in Battlefront 2 (ADPCM_38) and in Bounty Hunter (i'm not really sure which track though). There are some seconds of unreleased material.

The unreleased "Zam is Eliminated" part is also found in Battlefront 2.

Thwarted Attempt can be partially found in The Force Unleashed.

The Meeting of Anakin and Padme can be found in Galaxies.

She Hardly Recognized Me can be partially found in The Force Unleashed 2.

The Library Scene can be found completely in The Force Unleashed

3m1 Insert can be found in Battlefront 2.

Visiting the Prime Minister can partially be found in Battlefront 2 but with tpm drums layered over.

The Meeting with Fett can be almost completely found in The Force Unleashed 2.

The unreleased portions in "Spare Canister Caper" can be partially found in The Force Unleashed 2.

Anakin Changes can be partially found in The Force Unleashed and The Force Unleashed 2.

The Senate Scene can be found in Battlefront 2 and Force Unleashed 1 or 2.

The unreleased material in Padme Falls can be found in Galactic Battlegrounds.

Yoda Strikes Back can be found in Battlefront 2 (ADPCM_21), The Force Unleashed and Bounty Hunter. 1-4 seconds unreleased.

Feel free to correct me if i'm wrong.

[Jay 37,352]

Here's the deal with the 4 versions of the End Credits:

Williams wrote a cue called "End Credit" intended to be used as the end credits of the film. This 131 bar composition was recorded on Friday January 18th and can be heard (partially! - more info coming soon!) on the OST in track 13 from 5:36-end.

He also wrote a concert arrangement of the love theme that he called End Credit (CD Version). I unfortunately don't know a whole lot about this version. However, it must have been demoed for Peter Gelb (the head of Sony Classical at the time), since it was intended to be used as a single to promote the soundtrack release, and Gelb must have not liked it for whatever reason, so it was never recorded and Williams wrote an updated version.

This revision was called End Credit (Gelb Version) and was a combination of newly written material as well as some portions of End Credit (CD Version), like so:

bars 1-36 = unique original bars

bars 37-52 = End Credit (CD Version) bars 27-42

bars 53-60 = unique original bars

bars 61-108 = End Credit (CD Version) bars 68-115

This was ALSO rejected, so he then wrote End Credit (Updated Gelb Version), which only contained 5 new bars, with the rest cribbed from End Credit and End Credit (Gelb Version) [some of which, of course, was originally cribbed from End Credit (CD Version)]:

bars 1-52 = End Credit (Gelb Version) bars 1-52 [bars 37-52 being originally bars 27-42 of End Credit (CD Version)]

bars 53-61 = End Credit bars 20-28

bars 62-101 = End Credit (Gelb Version) bars 53-92 [bars 61-92 being originally bars 68-99 of End Credit (CD Version)]

bars 102-129 = End Credit bars 77-104

bars 130-134 = unique original bars [the harp solo]

bars 135-138 = End Credit (Gelb Version) bars 105-108 [which are really bars 112-115 of End Credit (CD Version)]

This version was finally approved, recorded on Wednesday January 23rd, and released (partially! - more info coming soon!) on the OST as track 2, "Across The Stars".

Phew!

So to Summarize:

1. End Credit = The intended end credits, recorded and (partially!) on the OST in track 13

2. End Credit (CD Version) = The intended concert arrangement of the love theme, never recorded.

3. End Credit (Gelb Version) = First revised love theme concert arrangement, never recorded

4. End Credit (Updated Gelb Version) = Final revised love theme concert arrangement, recorded and (partially!) on the OST in track 2

I wonder what Williams must have felt like being asked to rewrite his concert arrangement not once but twice, and if anything like that has ever happened to him before or since?

[Sido-Dyas 0]

Jason, my apologies if this is answered elsewhere, but is this based on specific information you have about the sessions, or is it conjecture based on the music and cue sheets we have? Either way, this is good stuff!

[Jay 37,352]

I don't have the recording sessions, I haven't even heard of them being out there. All the unreleased prequel music comes from video games as far as I know

[Sido-Dyas 0]

I don't have the recording sessions, I haven't even heard of them being out there. All the unreleased prequel music comes from video games as far as I know

Sorry, I should have mentioned that I was referring to the end credit info you posted, such as what specific bars were different in the unrecorded versions.

[Giftheck 916]

I've also created this spreadsheet that should help explain things:

https://spreadsheets...aWc&output=html

As you can see, my only video game knowledge stops after that first video game we got with the two 6m5 pieces, so I need help completing the spreadsheet with other video game file names - then we'll have a true editing guide

Check it out and let me know what you think!

I'd like to make a correction or two to that: If you're listening to the OST, I believe 5M5 is present on the "On the Conveyor Belt" track, but not all of 5M6 (primarily the Captured segment). It seems the album stops where it does with an artificial ending. Whereabouts 5M5 ends and 5M6 begins is still a matter of debate since some cue timings are obviously off.

[Trent B 337]

I've also created this spreadsheet that should help explain things:

https://spreadsheets...aWc&output=html

As you can see, my only video game knowledge stops after that first video game we got with the two 6m5 pieces, so I need help completing the spreadsheet with other video game file names - then we'll have a true editing guide

Check it out and let me know what you think!

I'd like to make a correction or two to that: If you're listening to the OST, I believe 5M5 is present on the "On the Conveyor Belt" track, but not all of 5M6 (primarily the Captured segment). It seems the album stops where it does with an artificial ending. Whereabouts 5M5 ends and 5M6 begins is still a matter of debate since some cue timings are obviously off.

I agree with ggtuck on this matter. I think 5m5 would end at 36 seconds if you're judging the time off the OST. Then of course 6m6 would end as ggtuck stated with the "Captured" segment. The clean ending for "The Conveyor Belt" is actually with TFU 1 the PS2 file music_CSDQ_FUM01. The rest of the ending is found in Battlefront 2.

[Jay 37,352]

You guys are right about 5m5/5m6. Will update the spreadsheet later

Is this a COMPLETE list of which games feature unreleased AOTC music?

Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds: The Clone Campaign (2002)

Star Wars: Bounty Hunter (2002)

Star Wars Galaxies (2003)

Star Wars: Battlefront (2004)

Star Wars: Battlefront II (2005)

Star Wars: The Force Unleashed (2008)

Star Wars: The Force Unleashed II (2010)

[Datameister 2,042]

I don't know of any others that have AOTC unreleased music on 'em...

BTW, I've taken fairly thorough notes (no pun intended) on which game files contain which material from AOTC, but they wouldn't make much sense to anyone in their current form. If we end up getting confirmation of exactly what's in each cue as recorded, I'll be happy to rewrite it with reference to the original cue titles and post it here.

[Jay 37,352]

I'd love to see that list as it stands now

[Datameister 2,042]

Hmmm....maybe I can put it together as best I can. Could take a few days - as you know, I'm rather busy with papers and whatnot right now. But when I get a chance, I'll try to post what I've got.

[Jilal 569]

I noticed there are about 15 seconds of unused "Conveyor Belt" music in SW:Bounty Hunter.

[Datameister 2,042]

I remember part of the beginning of the OST bonus track being used in the game...are you referring to that?

[Giftheck 916]

I've checked, there's nothing in Bounty Hunter we don't have elsewhere. The intro for the Conveyor Belt is indeed shortened a bit (material missing at 0:23, about 6 seconds worth of material), and Bounty hunter DOES contain that missing bit, but so does TFU (and I think it's in higher quality as well)

[Jay 37,352]

Good to know, thanks!

[King Mark 3,631]

You guys are right about 5m5/5m6. Will update the spreadsheet later

Is this a COMPLETE list of which games feature unreleased AOTC music?

Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds: The Clone Campaign (2002)

Star Wars: Bounty Hunter (2002)

Star Wars Galaxies (2003)

Star Wars: Battlefront (2004)

Star Wars: Battlefront II (2005)

Star Wars: The Force Unleashed (2008)

Star Wars: The Force Unleashed II (2010)

I don't think you need all of these

Only

Galaxies (1 cue)

Battlefront 2

TFU1

TFU2

[Jay 37,352]

I believe The Clone Campaign was the original game that we got 6m5 Insert and the missing section of 6m5 Padme Falls from. Did those bits later turn up again in a later game?

[King Mark 3,631]

I think so, and in better quality

[Jay 37,352]

Alrighty then!

[King Mark 3,631]

I think the only files Galaxies are still good for is the scene in the elevator for AotC, the Lament insert for RotS and the ending of Going to Utapau

[Jay 37,352]

Do you know which file in Galaxies features the elevator music?

[Giftheck 916]

I think so, and in better quality

Yup, it's seen in TFU2, all the missing bits accounted for except for the extended instrumentation they edited out of both the album and Galactic Battlegrounds for the later half of 6M5 Padme Falls

[Jay 37,352]

extended instrumentation?

[Hauben 0]

Some interesting discussions about the AOTC score over here.

Up until today, it’s still kinda unbelievable how badly edited the score for AOTC was: the looping, the tracked music on places where it wasn’t needed at all. The edit during the 2nd part of the meadow picnic is quite absurd and I still don’t get it why they didn’t use the original transition from the fire place scene to the “rainy ramp” scene.

I have another question. In the movie, the transition between “Visiting prime minister” & “first kiss” contains some tracked music form the beginning of that cue.

Could it be that the original transition is heard at the beginning of the “extended Naboo arrival” deleted scene? It contains some music I can’t really place and

continues with the music heard at the island retreat balcony. I’ve been wondering this for some time.

[King Mark 3,631]

if you don't want to include DVD rips (like me) in your expanded edit, AotC is a lot more complex to do than RotS. There's a lost of little snippets of music which end up being useless until we get more of the cue (for example the first cue Ambush on Coruscant)

[Giftheck 916]

extended instrumentation?

Before the Force Theme kicks in on 6M5, there's a missing section where the strings play before the Force Theme plays, and a note of the Force theme is edited down. You can hear this in the film.

[Jay 37,352]

How do you know that was part of the original recording, edited out of the OST and Galactic Battlegrounds but used as intended in the film, and not a weird film edit/tracking/alteration and the OST/video game is right?

[Giftheck 916]

How do you know that was part of the original recording, edited out of the OST and Galactic Battlegrounds but used as intended in the film, and not a weird film edit/tracking/alteration and the OST/video game is right?

Easy: Check the second Galactic Battlegrounds file (the one with the Arena and Padme falls pieces) at 6:33.5 - you can hear a note over the top of the first note of the Force Theme. Check it against the album - that note is much more faded out for the transition, suggesting that something else was there. As well as this, in the film, the note at 6:38 of the GB file is longer in the film, and not artifically so - the strings repeat the same theme twice. The film DOES make one mistake - tracking the Conveyor Belt note over part of it, and sadly all otehr video games cut out before the Force Theme even starts so we cannot be sure 100%. Also, my theory seems to match the timings given on the cue sheet.

[Henry B 50]

I think so, and in better quality

Not in better quality. The Galactic Battlegrounds Clone Campaigns rip is best because it's a CD audio track.

[Jay 37,352]

Yea, I thought I remembered that to be the case!

Essentially I could buy this used for $3, pop it in my computer, and rip it like a CD to get those two bits, right?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B000065EUJ/

[Henry B 50]

Yep.