John Crichton

Star Wars Prequel Music Resource (part 2)

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Well I tackled on "Drums Insert" at the end of "War Plans" and it flows very well into the "Drums Insert" piece. So perhaps you are right about its placement ggtuck.

Edit: Also judging from the movie, I bet "Forest Mist" and "The Armies Face Off" were recorded as separate cues. I say this because there seems to be a bit of a gap on when "The Armies Face Off" should start. Or unless there's more unused music between those two cues that we do not have yet.

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Actually expanding on what I said earlier about the gap between "Forest Mist" and "The Armies Face Off", I wonder if "Drums Insert" actually goes right after "Forest Mist". That might be the missing music that would play when the Gungans activate the shield and we see the Droid tanks and that coming down the hill then releasing all their battle droids.

We also know too that whole portion was shuffled around from after that one droid said, "Open fire!". So again referring to what I said about the OST having the correct placement.

Edit: I did a test, I ripped the audio only portion of that sequence from TPM DVD and used the OST edit to add the missing music from track 14. The "Drums Insert" would actually start right after the tanks lower the battle droids from their holds. So it seems the OST definitely did have it right for that sequence and "Forest Mist" would end right before the Gungans activated their shield.

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Gave up on doing TPM myself a long time ago, it's soooo complicated. Been relying on other people's updated edits!

This thread is like Agatha Christie's Ten Little Niggers ;)

Um, what?

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I forgot to report, I had played the demo for The Force Unleashed II. I was able to lower the voices and sound effects in the menu options for the demo. All though I wasn't able to completely mute it but the demo for the first Force Unleashed game was like that as well. Anyways, the point is that the voices and sound effects were even lowered in the cut scenes.

I hope that it will be like that for the actual retail version too. I'd love to be able to record music during the cut scenes as well. That's one thing I hated about the first Force Unleashed game as the sound effects and voices weren't lowered even in the cut scenes.

I'll find out next Tuesday when I get it from Amazon. ROTFLMAO

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Hey guys I have been thinking about the synth material we hear on track 14 of the TPM OST from 3:19-3:44ish. I believe that is the right spot for that piece. We know that the previous cue "Gone Fishin" (before Darth Sidious) was looped a couple of times at the end of the cue in the film. So the cue "Gone Fishin" should have ended a bit earlier than what it does in the film. Then that synth piece would come in and flow right into "Darth Sidious" like it does on the OST.

Initially I thought the synth piece may have gone before "High Council Meeting" since one of the games (can't quite remember which) had it such but now I don't think it was meant for that cue but actually for the beginning of "Darth Sidious".

I'm pretty sure the OST has "Drums Insert" correct as far as placement goes. So it would go "Forest Mist" with a clean ending, then "Drums Insert" and that would segue into "The Armies Face Off". My test with the TPM DVD audio would conclude that, especially since quite a bit of that section was shuffled around.

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Thanks for the link! If only it were from the original LSO recordings, though... ;)

Gotta agree with Data on this one.

Actually one thing I'm sorta still miffed over is that we have yet to have the entire choir-less version of Duel Of The Fates. I mean we have I would say about 98% of it but there's still a couple of sections that have not surfaced in the games. It's kind of hard to edit together when there is still material missing.

I will say though that re-recording is not bad at all.

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We don't even have 98% of the choirless take of Duel of the Fates. The material around 2:56-3:02 on the album is as I have said before a loop of a later piece of the instrumental (3:55.5-4:01.5)

I disagree with your theory on the synth stuff. I've matched the original score to the film and I even tried to place it in there. it didn't fit very well. You have to remember that while the film does indeed loop a part of "Gone Fishin'" it also removes a part of it too (1:04.5 in UE D1 T10). It doesn't quite fit, nor does it fit the scene very well IMO (of them sailing away as the giant fish thing eats the smaller fish). The melody of this piece actually seems to match High Council Meeting so I think it's simply an alternate piece, it may not be an insert at all. Either that or the High Council meeting scene was originally longer. The script seems to have a few lines omitted from the movie but without seeing the full scene I cannot say for certain. I am sure, however, that is is either a part of or an alternate to High Council Meeting.

I'm still not certain myself about Drums Insert. I've placed it before Forest mist in my edit.

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Thanks for the link! If only it were from the original LSO recordings, though... :lol:

Gotta agree with Data on this one.

Actually one thing I'm sorta still miffed over is that we have yet to have the entire choir-less version of Duel Of The Fates. I mean we have I would say about 98% of it but there's still a couple of sections that have not surfaced in the games. It's kind of hard to edit together when there is still material missing.

I will say though that re-recording is not bad at all.

mmm i think that may be an alterarion of the original Williams' ROTS cue, with the inverse wave trick to get rid of the choir?

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Actually Luke it is a re-recording. I downloaded it from iTunes last night and the guy on Youtube sped it up to get it close to the original recording speed.

Edit: ggtuck we nearly have all of the choir-less version of DOTF. There's parts scattered through out the games..BF 2 (I believe), Jedi Power Battles and a few others. Going from the times of the original version we have material from 0:00-2:41 with out the choir.

Then from 3:20-3:41 then from 4:01 to the end. From 2:41-3:20 then from 3:41-4:01 are the only sections we don't have with out the choir. Those sections keep getting omitted from the games for some weird reason.

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I have a theory on that. I don't think LucasArts has the whole orchestral version of Duel of the Fates. Notice in the ads and in-game when it moves to material matching the album up to 2:07 it either cycles back or gets cut off by another cue?

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mmm i think that may be an alterarion of the original Williams' ROTS cue, with the inverse wave trick to get rid of the choir?

As Trent said, it's definitely a different recording. The performance isn't as slick as the LSO's. ;) There's no way to eliminate the choir unless you've got the audio of the choir singing alone (or the choir is in mono).

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Even then you'd have to mix the choral exactly the same way it is in the actual track. This is why we cannot isolate the war drums from Battlefront II in the Boys Into battle, Enter Lord Vader and They're Coming Around tracks - because although the waveform is similar it is not identical to the underlying track.

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The taiko drum part isn't in the sheet music. There's a "big Japanese drum" part, but it only plays during the opening measures, and it's not just the same "1.......3...1.......3...1.......3..." rhythm over and over again. I haven't seen the sheet music for "They're Coming Around", but my guess is that the taiko part we hear was written and recorded for that cue, and then it got reused in "Boys Into Battle." Also, there's no taiko in the sheet music for "Anakin's Dark Deeds", which leads me to believe that all the film version taiko drums were added editorially. (Except "They're Coming Around", of course.) They weren't part of Williams' intentions for the music.

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The taiko drum part isn't in the sheet music. There's a "big Japanese drum" part, but it only plays during the opening measures, as it's not just the same "1.......3...1.......3...1.......3..." rhythm over and over again. I haven't seen the sheet music for "They're Coming Around", but my guess is that the taiko part we hear was written and recorded for that cue, and then it got reused in "Boys Into Battle." Also, there's no taiko in the sheet music for "Anakin's Dark Deeds", which leads me to believe that all the film version taiko drums were added editorially. (Except "They're Coming Around", of course.) They weren't part of Williams' intentions for the music.

xyxthumbs.gif

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even if they were not originally meant to be there, i think it makes it epic-er for the example the music when anakin goes to mustafar the album version sounds kind of flat compared to the film

also i am the "guy on youtube" that edited the Battle of the Heroes Choir-less

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I actually agree with Faleel. While the drums are not intended for those other cues they do seem pretty lifeless with out them. At least that's my opinion.

While they're not the most lively cues in my opinion, adding drums doesn't help. The drums are particularly offensive in "Anakin vs. Obi-Wan"/"Heroes Collide" because they actually change the beat of the music to a syncopated kind of beat that isn't at all like Williams.

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While they're not the most lively cues in my opinion, adding drums doesn't help. The drums are particularly offensive in "Anakin vs. Obi-Wan"/"Heroes Collide" because they actually change the beat of the music to a syncopated kind of beat that isn't at all like Williams.

;)

Aside from that use, I do rather like the taikos, at least if I'm in the right mood. But I'm all about composers' original intentions these days, and I let that dictate how I do my edits.

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Hey guys I have been thinking about the synth material we hear on track 14 of the TPM OST from 3:19-3:44ish. I believe that is the right spot for that piece. We know that the previous cue "Gone Fishin" (before Darth Sidious) was looped a couple of times at the end of the cue in the film. So the cue "Gone Fishin" should have ended a bit earlier than what it does in the film. Then that synth piece would come in and flow right into "Darth Sidious" like it does on the OST.

Initially I thought the synth piece may have gone before "High Council Meeting" since one of the games (can't quite remember which) had it such but now I don't think it was meant for that cue but actually for the beginning of "Darth Sidious".

This has been my belief also.

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Okay for that portion of those drums from 3:04 onwards til the end of the cue were clearly added editorially and that portion actually isn't that great for the cue. Especially when Anakin chokes Obi-Wan.

From the beginning up until about 1:36 in that video is what I was talking about before hand is what I like.

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Even the drums in "Heroes Collide", I prefer at least only the beginning portion before reprise of "Through The Window" (from ESB) plays.

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=KVTrN87K2FU

i really like the taiko portion at 3:04 in this video

Terrible. The drums fall completely off track at points. I hope this is just somebody's synth mock-up and not how it's actually heard in the film. Even if the film version is more carefully mixed and synchronized, I don't like the addition in principle. The music was complete without drums. It's not as malleable and layered as, say, Giacchino's Star Trek, a score that had some fun and pulse pounding drum additions. Williams' music is too precise to just have other stuff thrown over it or taken off. That's why I don't really like "orchestra only" or "choir only" edits; they feel incomplete.

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Henry,

That guy practically replicated the drums 100% to sync with the spots as they are heard in the film. Well at least from 1:36 onwards. It's actually the best reproduction I've heard.

Anyways, for Star Trek we all know Chris Tilton did do the drum over dubs. For some cues it actually helps (IE: Hella Bar Talk, Chutes and Matter, Scotty's Tanked, etc...). For the most part though I do definitely prefer the score with out them.

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The taiko drum part isn't in the sheet music. There's a "big Japanese drum" part, but it only plays during the opening measures, and it's not just the same "1.......3...1.......3...1.......3..." rhythm over and over again. I haven't seen the sheet music for "They're Coming Around", but my guess is that the taiko part we hear was written and recorded for that cue, and then it got reused in "Boys Into Battle." Also, there's no taiko in the sheet music for "Anakin's Dark Deeds", which leads me to believe that all the film version taiko drums were added editorially. (Except "They're Coming Around", of course.) They weren't part of Williams' intentions for the music.

that just ruined my day...

what opening measures are you talking about? what cue?

I really only like the taikos in the Battle above coruscant, in the rest of cues it sounds artificial. but in heroes collide begining (0-0:23, 1:10-1:36) it sounds real,or i am too acustomed to it... (EDIT: hearing the CD cue.. those drums are there...maybe the film version is a different mix, with more prominence of them?)

BTW, in boys into battle, the overdub just makes it 'boom--boom-tzzzz....boom--boom-tzzzz' so if in other cues the drums must be dismissed because it is not williamsy... in this case it clearly is one of his trademarks....

Anybody noticed that the taiko ovelay is the same rythm featured in the Isengard/uruk hai leitmotif?

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I'm talking about "Boys Into Battle." Basically, none of the taiko drums you hear in the film version are in the sheet music. There's a taiko part for the passages leading up to the first statement of the Force theme, but it's different. I think it got buried pretty well in the mix, and then they added the much louder taiko part from "They're Coming Around" later on. So again, all evidence points to the film versions of "Boys Into Battle" and "Anakin's Dark Deeds" not having taiko parts originally. Unfortunately, no sheet music is available for "They're Coming Around", "Moving Things Along", "Heroes Collide", and so forth, but the most reasonable assumption (IMO) is that the taiko part was only intended to be used in "They're Coming Around."

And yes, I noticed that the rhythm is similar to the one from LOTR - in fact, that's the very first thing I thought of when I heard the cue for the first time. It's not exactly the same, though...this rhythm is in 3/4, whereas the one from LOTR is in 5/4.

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In 3/4, it goes 1....2....3....1....2....3....

In 5/4, it goes 1...2...3...4...5...1...2...3...4...5...

Similar, but not the same. :)

As for the written taiko part, it's similar, just a little more complicated and a little less repetitive.

Then again, I dunno...maybe they just changed the part on the recording stage. I mean, you can still hear the rhythm from the film version in the album version...it's just a lot quieter in the mix. I dunno, it's really hard to say...

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In 3/4, it goes 1....2....3....1....2....3....

In 5/4, it goes 1...2...3...4...5...1...2...3...4...5...

This is why I don't understand music.... this makes no sense to me at all :)

If they are both x / 4, shouldn't there be something in common among their patterns?

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Ah, that can cause confusion - it's not a fraction. I know I wrote it like one, but in actual sheet music, they just appear as two numbers, one over the other, with no line between them. Like this:

34meter.gif

The top number indicates how many beats there are per measure. So there are 3 beats per measure in the ROTS rhythm, and 5 in the LOTR rhythm. The bottom number just indicates which type of note constitutes one beat. The 4 stands for quarter note, which looks like this:

quarternote.gif

So if you've got one piece in 3/4 and one piece in 5/4, the only reason they share the 4 in common is because they both use quarter notes as beats.

But to make all this more complicated...I'm realizing now that "Boys Into Battle" is written in 3/2, not 3/4, and "They're Coming Around" probably was, too. But that really doesn't change the way the music sounds at all; the rhythms just get written a little differently. Not really worth explaining. :)

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Even the drums in "Heroes Collide", I prefer at least only the beginning portion before reprise of "Through The Window" (from ESB) plays.

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=KVTrN87K2FU

i really like the taiko portion at 3:04 in this video

Terrible. The drums fall completely off track at points. I hope this is just somebody's synth mock-up and not how it's actually heard in the film. Even if the film version is more carefully mixed and synchronized, I don't like the addition in principle. The music was complete without drums. It's not as malleable and layered as, say, Giacchino's Star Trek, a score that had some fun and pulse pounding drum additions. Williams' music is too precise to just have other stuff thrown over it or taken off. That's why I don't really like "orchestra only" or "choir only" edits; they feel incomplete.

according to the video uploader:

"This is the ONLY film accurate mix in existence that tracks exactly to the video sequence, as shown here, with accurately timed and reproduced drums and all cues recreated and placed correctly. All of the other mixes floating around are timed incorrectly and have a lot of errors and missing cue segments, which was why I made this mix in the first place. I am looking for a clean cue without effects for the segment when Yoda drops into Bail's ship at the very end of the clip. If anyone has a copy of that segment without effects, please contact me"

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Ah, that can cause confusion - it's not a fraction. I know I wrote it like one, but in actual sheet music, they just appear as two numbers, one over the other, with no line between them. Like this:

34meter.gif

The top number indicates how many beats there are per measure. So there are 3 beats per measure in the ROTS rhythm, and 5 in the LOTR rhythm. The bottom number just indicates which type of note constitutes one beat. The 4 stands for quarter note, which looks like this:

quarternote.gif

So if you've got one piece in 3/4 and one piece in 5/4, the only reason they share the 4 in common is because they both use quarter notes as beats.

But to make all this more complicated...I'm realizing now that "Boys Into Battle" is written in 3/2, not 3/4, and "They're Coming Around" probably was, too. But that really doesn't change the way the music sounds at all; the rhythms just get written a little differently. Not really worth explaining. :)

Alright, so why does 3/4 hit on the 1st and 3rd quarter notes, but 5/4 hits on the 1st and 4th quarter notes?

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Purely because that's the way Williams and Shore wrote the two pieces. It's not an inherent quality of those time signatures or anything. :) They could have written any rhythm they wanted within those frameworks.

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Even the drums in "Heroes Collide", I prefer at least only the beginning portion before reprise of "Through The Window" (from ESB) plays.

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=KVTrN87K2FU

i really like the taiko portion at 3:04 in this video

Terrible. The drums fall completely off track at points. I hope this is just somebody's synth mock-up and not how it's actually heard in the film. Even if the film version is more carefully mixed and synchronized, I don't like the addition in principle. The music was complete without drums. It's not as malleable and layered as, say, Giacchino's Star Trek, a score that had some fun and pulse pounding drum additions. Williams' music is too precise to just have other stuff thrown over it or taken off. That's why I don't really like "orchestra only" or "choir only" edits; they feel incomplete.

according to the video uploader:

"This is the ONLY film accurate mix in existence that tracks exactly to the video sequence, as shown here, with accurately timed and reproduced drums and all cues recreated and placed correctly. All of the other mixes floating around are timed incorrectly and have a lot of errors and missing cue segments, which was why I made this mix in the first place. I am looking for a clean cue without effects for the segment when Yoda drops into Bail's ship at the very end of the clip. If anyone has a copy of that segment without effects, please contact me"

That is... unfortunate.

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Then again, I dunno...maybe they just changed the part on the recording stage. I mean, you can still hear the rhythm from the film version in the album version...it's just a lot quieter in the mix. I dunno, it's really hard to say...

I think that the taikos, being to loud as they are, like chorus is sometimes, were recorded sepparately, and what we hear in the OST is played with soft timpani as a temp track to sync the overdubs.

Maybe williams wanted not to use the taikos in the ost (his infamous microedits....) for it not being too prominent and left only them in 'they are coming around'.

Probably, so we can hear his unused opening without the distortion of the drums.

Hey i noticed that in the file from Battlefront II, the very opening starts with a several rapid beats segment and then does for the 3/4 pattern thing. That is what can be heard in the OST too. (i thought it was just the 3/4 beat imposed).

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Then again, I dunno...maybe they just changed the part on the recording stage. I mean, you can still hear the rhythm from the film version in the album version...it's just a lot quieter in the mix. I dunno, it's really hard to say...

I think that the taikos, being to loud as they are, like chorus is sometimes, were recorded sepparately, and what we hear in the OST is played with soft timpani as a temp track to sync the overdubs.

Maybe williams wanted not to use the taikos in the ost (his infamous microedits....) for it not being too prominent and left only them in 'they are coming around'.

Probably, so we can hear his unused opening without the distortion of the drums.

Notice in the OST version of They're Coming Around that in the third section with the taiko drums (the part which he cut back slightly) the drums are much quieter than on the rest of the track. Also notice how the drums actually sound different in both Boys into battle and They're Coming Around, also in Enter Lord Vader. One might argue that it's pitch-up or pitch-down but it certainly doesn't sound so.

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I think that the taikos, being to loud as they are, like chorus is sometimes, were recorded sepparately...

Whatever the case, this is definitely true. In fact, some or all of the percussion for this score was apparently recorded separately - keep in mind, for instance, that the OST version of "The Elevator Scene" and the film version of "I Am the Senate" omit some snare/field drum rhythms that are most definitely in the sheet music. In both cases, the missing percussion has shown up in game files, exactly as written.

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Regarding "Boys Into Battle" as we've stated before you can barely hear them on the OST but they are there. As Data suggested they probably use a different rythum than what's presented in the game material.

I know we all have our own personal preferences to how things are mixed. I do go for the intended edition of how scores are edited (especially Star Wars). In this case for Revenge Of The Sith, I definitely prefer the over dubs in those cues. I know most of you don't but that's okay too, again it's your own preference.

Edit: Also for "Heroes Collide" I'm pretty sure those drums are meant to be there, at least until the second statement of the Imperial March comes in. You can barely hear the drums on the OST as well. The film version mix not only allows those drums to be properly heard but also allows the chime at about 0:41 into the cue (OST timing) to be a lot more prominent than what's heard on the OST.

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