Jay 37,346 Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Alright folks. It's been mentioned many times before that the track "Prologue" on the HOOK OST (which in reality is the music written for the film's first Teaser Trailer) is playing at the wrong speed. But is it took fast or too slow? Originally I think people assumed it was too fast, and that slowing it down by about 3.3% would bring it back to the correct speed - this is also the speed it plays on the original, pre-Concorde boot that came out. However, if you view the teaser trailer on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KBT7-bG8eg You will hear that the trailer version plays VERY fast. You'd need to speed up the OST version by about 8.8% to reach this speed. So what do you think, is the youtube version playing at the proper speed, or is the youtube version artificially sped up? Discuss! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 1,059 Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 I'm no sound engineer but the youtube video sounds off. Of course I've been listening to the original all these years. What source is this trailer from?This is the first I've heard of a possible speed issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,346 Posted January 20, 2011 Author Share Posted January 20, 2011 Oh, it's been discussed many times over the years that the track on the OST is playing at the wrong speed. Here's one thread about it:http://www.jwfan.com...showtopic=10532I agree that the youtube version SOUNDS fast - like it doesnt FEEL right, it just feels rushed.... however, it is perfectly in tune, and several re-recordings / suites have been made that are also at this fast speed. See "Flight To Neverland" on the "Williams On Williams" compilation for one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,492 Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Speed or no speed, that's a great piece of music! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TownerFan 4,983 Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Mm, the YouTube video could suffer from the typical PAL 4% speed-up (it was transferred and duplicated from a PAL videotape source and then retriggered through some recompression program, hence the "off" quality, I suppose).It's the first time for me too I read the Hook OST contains tracks transferred at the wrong speed. Strange, no tracks ever sounded too fast, or too slow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,000 Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Mm, the YouTube video could suffer from the typical PAL 4% speed-up (it was transferred and duplicated from a PAL videotape source and then retriggered through some recompression program, hence the "off" quality, I suppose).I thought the exact same thing.Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 1,059 Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Mm, the YouTube video could suffer from the typical PAL 4% speed-up (it was transferred and duplicated from a PAL videotape source and then retriggered through some recompression program, hence the "off" quality, I suppose).It's the first time for me too I read the Hook OST contains tracks transferred at the wrong speed. Strange, no tracks ever sounded too fast, or too slow.That's what I thought as well. I'm just not that familiar with PAL to explain it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,346 Posted January 20, 2011 Author Share Posted January 20, 2011 That's what I originally thought too - that the youtube version of the trailer was suffering from PAL speedup, and the real trailer in the US would have been slower. I assumed the pre-Concorde boot version was the correct speed, and the OST version was sped up from that, then the youtube trailer was sped up even more. But I've beeen talking to both John Takis and Datameister about this recently, and they are both leaning towards the youtube trailer version actually being the correct speed... maybe they can chime in here with their thoughts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,513 Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Most teaser trailers are approximately 1 minute and 30 seconds long. As you can see, this one comes in at 1:26. Maybe someone timed a slower performance then and asked the orchestra to play faster. Of course, J.W. would know how long it was meant to be because he understands timing. It does seem rushed: I'll stick with the OST. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,346 Posted January 20, 2011 Author Share Posted January 20, 2011 It's certainly possible he recorded the same piece twice - once at the slower pace heard on the pre-Concorde boot, and once at the faster pace heard in the youtube teaser. And then for whatever reason the OST track is a slowed down or sped up version of one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,513 Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 It's certainly possible he recorded the same piece twice - once at the slower pace heard on the pre-Concorde boot, and once at the faster pace heard in the youtube teaser.And then for whatever reason the OST track is a slowed down or sped up version of one of them.Are they both in the same key? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,041 Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Well, we know that the OST version absolutely cannot be correct. That's the only thing that must be true - the whole orchestra is WAY out of tune, but uniformly so. (The first chord is right about halfway between A minor and Bb minor.) There's no reason why they would record it this way. My initial thinking was that either it needed to be slowed down so the first chord was A minor or it needed to be sped up so the first chord was Bb minor, but then Jay mentioned John's theory (which entails starting on B minor, not Bb minor), and it won me over. I now feel even more confident than the last time we talked, Jay, and here's why: I didn't realize that all the re-recordings of "Flight to Neverland" included "Prologue", so I've gone and listened to some, and they're all in the same key as the trailer music - which, as you said, is perfectly in-tune, which is something you never hear when PAL speedup is involved. You can also listen to the cymbal crashes - in terms of pitch, they sound the most natural in terms of pitch and timbre when you speed it up. Other instruments too, to a lesser extent. So at this point, I'm feeling almost completely positive that "Prologue" was written and recorded with B minor as the first chord. This means that if you want to listen to the correct version, you need to speed up the OST track by about 8%. That makes the track about 1:24 long, and the music itself is 1:19 long. I know it would seem to make more sense if it were an even 1:30, which it is if you slow it down, but I think all the other evidence is pointing the other way pretty strongly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,346 Posted January 20, 2011 Author Share Posted January 20, 2011 Yea. Now I'm wondering if the original bootleg makers just noticed that the OST Prologue was out of key so they thought slowing it down would be correct and that's why its that speed there. I wonder why they changed the speed for the OST? A weird Williams OST thing, or a true mistake? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,000 Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 I'm sure the liner notes for the 2011 release will explain all of this. Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,346 Posted January 20, 2011 Author Share Posted January 20, 2011 Indeed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,041 Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Haha, true. But that just means we need to get all the speculation and editing out of our system before it's too late. I'm feeling more and more confident about this. The YouTube video is the correct speed, and for whatever reason, they slowed it down for the OST, so that it needs to be sped up by 8%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Someone needs to rip a NTSC copy of the dvd and try to match up the cues with the ost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,041 Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Well, the other cues on the OST are fine. But this one was written for the trailer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,346 Posted January 20, 2011 Author Share Posted January 20, 2011 Right, and the trailer is not on any DVD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,794 Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 maybe the ost has a preliminar rehearshal and the trailer contains the final wall to wall version of the cue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,346 Posted January 20, 2011 Author Share Posted January 20, 2011 No, the OST version is 100% absolutely artificially adjusted for speed after it was recorded. We just don't know for sure if it was sped up from a slower recording or slowed down from a faster one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,794 Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 how do you know that?some artifacts in the waveform? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,346 Posted January 20, 2011 Author Share Posted January 20, 2011 See post #12 of this thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,794 Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 okwhat pre-concorde bootleg? i thought this last was the only one released. (and it didnt contain the prologue..) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trent B 337 Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 There was a leak of the Hook score way before Concorde leaked theirs. This contained nearly all the cues with clean intros and endings. The only cues it didn't contain with clean intros and endings were from "Hook Vs. Rufio" to the end of "Pan Vs. Hook". This also contains the remaining previously unreleased "Ultimate War" pieces in actual stereo sound all instruments but the sound quality wasn't nearly as "good" as Concorde's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,346 Posted January 20, 2011 Author Share Posted January 20, 2011 more info here:http://web.archive.org/web/20010503081912/worldzone.net/music/johnwilliams/hook/bootlegs.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissPadmé 17 Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Ahh so I noticed..When you set the file in the Adobe Audition from 44100Hz to 48000Hz it is EXACTLY the correct pitch (B-minor)So there might have happened a mistake in CD mastereing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,345 Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 is there a difference between concord and concorde? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,000 Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Label and Boot LabelKarol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Brigden 7 Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 One's a Jazz record label, the other's a supersonic jet plane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,794 Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Ahh so I noticed..When you set the file in the Adobe Audition from 44100Hz to 48000Hz it is EXACTLY the correct pitch (B-minor)So there might have happened a mistake in CD mastereinghey! welcome back! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,346 Posted January 20, 2011 Author Share Posted January 20, 2011 Ahh so I noticed..When you set the file in the Adobe Audition from 44100Hz to 48000Hz it is EXACTLY the correct pitch (B-minor)So there might have happened a mistake in CD mastereingAHA!!!!! That likely explains everything!!it also proves the fast youtube version is correct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demondm810 399 Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Haha. I like it sped up! It actually sounds better when compared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 I like the faster version more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TownerFan 4,983 Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 After all these years listening to the OST without being aware of it, it's a kind of mini-shock. This has always been one of my all time favourite JW cues. This also explains why the bass drum hits toward the end of the cue make my woofers suffer.Bring on the complete, restored edition, LLL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 1,059 Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 I guess I need to quit listening to Hook until a complete version comes. That way I'll forget the speed of the cue.It took me forever to get used to the Prometheus release of King Solomon's Mines after listening to the Intrada release all those years. I believe the Intrada was too fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 So who do i contact about getting a refund on the OST? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldfingers 126 Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 If you listen the french teaser (the map traveling teaser with behind the scene clips). The music speed is faster too (just the final is cut off for the 1 minutes trailer format).http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4u92hcqCYgI have these two trailers in 35mm format but i don't have projectors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissPadmé 17 Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Great to see this, but if you read the thread we found out that it def. is a CD mastering errortherefor, all the teser versions (incl. yours) is the correct one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 I've been listening to my non-legit version of Hook for so long that were one of the labels to release it complete, I would wrongify the corrected track to make it like I'm used to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,346 Posted February 17, 2011 Author Share Posted February 17, 2011 The corrected track WOULD be sped up - its INCORRECT for it to be slow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,794 Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 ok... so how do i correct the speed in the LLL track, speeding up 8% or changing 41000 to 48000? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,345 Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 How would I slow it down if it was that the OST was too fast? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,346 Posted April 4, 2012 Author Share Posted April 4, 2012 ok... so how do i correct the speed in the LLL track, speeding up 8% or changing 41000 to 48000?You can either speed it up by 8.844 percent, OR convert it up to 48,000khz then re-SAMPLING it back down to 44,100 khz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laserschwert 475 Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 How would I slow it down if it was that the OST was too fast?The crazy shit that happened in THIS THREAD might be of help by pointing to Paul's Extreme Sound Stretch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 How would I slow it down if it was that the OST was too fast?No the OST was too slow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,794 Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 ok, adjusting it, the LLL track goes from 1:32 to 1:25. is this correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,345 Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 How would I slow it down if it was that the OST was too fast?No the OST was too slow!I mean, pitchwise, Dmeister said that it was out of tune, and that it should be in one key, or the other, instead of in between the two keys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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