GAME OF THRONES

[Muad'Dib 1,802]

2 hours ago, BloodBoal said:

Because Cera as Wally Brando sucked!

But that was the point!

 

... I think.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Bilbo 3,709]

I don't think any of them are a loss to the show. 

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Bilbo 3,709]

Those same people probably thing the Kingsmoot should have been shown in as much detail as the book portrayed though. 

[Glóin the Dark 1,220]

Be wary of spoilers for Episode 4 over the next few days. Apparently a low quality version has surfaced early.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Bilbo 3,709]

was a bit shocked to find Euron was actually Theon's father and that Bran had been in a coma all along and the whole thing from Season 1 Episode 2 onwards has just been going on in his head. 

 

Was great to see Sean Bean back!

[Jay 37,346]

If anybody here decides to watch episode 4 before Sunday night, please have the decency to hide every single thing you have to say about it inside a spoiler block.  Thanks.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Bilbo 3,709]

10 minutes ago, BloodBoal said:

 

Weird. The spoilers I've read said Euron is Jaqen H'ghar, and that Syrio Forel will kill the Mountain. Oh, and it confirmed my theory that Sam is a Targaryen whose true name is Samwaerys.

 

All of that is also true. 

 

[crocodile 8,000]

Also army if the dead subplot is a red herring. Pretty much literally. All they want is to sell their actual red herrings to good people of the south.

 

Karol

[Glóin the Dark 1,220]

1 hour ago, BloodBoal said:

So, I take it you stumbled upon spoilers?

 

No, only that the episode is now out there.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Quintus 5,399]

So who here has already absorbed the newly leaked material, like something squeamish out of Invasion of the Body Snatchers?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Jay 37,346]

[Disco Stu 15,495]

On 8/4/2017 at 10:35 AM, BloodBoal said:

It was bound to happen sooner or later after the HBO leak.

 

A bit surprised the following episodes (scripts and/or videos) apparently didn't leak as well. Would probably have been devastating for HBO.

 

What's funny is that this isn't even from the hack.  This was a leak from a distribution partner.

 

[Glóin the Dark 1,220]

On 7/27/2017 at 10:41 PM, BloodBoal said:

Well, surely, it means something happened between now and then, for people to notice it/mention it more.

 

...more events happen in shorter timeframes than they did in the first few seasons, giving a sense that everyone is moving much faster and much more easily from one place to another than they used...

 

I'd also say that in the earlier seasons there were some storylines basically dedicated to just show people travelling from one place to another (the Hound and Arya, Brienne and Podrick, Dany and the Dothrakis in the desert...), which is not so much the case in the later seasons (most of the characters staying in one location for a long period of time, and suddenly deciding to travel to another one and being there in the next scene).

 

Yeah, and if you examine the instances of travel scenes that have been included over the seasons, and consider the likely reasons for their inclusion, it becomes fairly clear why there have been fewer of them in the later stages. There were never The Lord of the Rings-style journey montages to convey distance and time. I think that, whenever there were scenes of characters in mid-journey, those scenes were doing one or more of the following jobs:

• introducing characters or establishing / developing relationships between characters
• outlining necessary elements of backstory or of the cultural / political situation

[These types of jobs were also often done in non-travel scenes too, of course, but in many circumstances it was convenient or necessary to do them while people were on the road. Let's call this trexposition.]

• keeping characters in the picture (when there were extended periods between the key stages of their storylines)
• providing the occasion for some story-changing event (e.g. practically all scenes at the Crossroads Inn!).

It stands to reason that the need for trexposition should diminish over the course of the series, and the third function should also become redundant as the story moves into its final stages. So when people say that the show used to be more careful about conveying time and distance, I'd say that that is flat-out wrong (in view of the counter-examples I mentioned earlier, and many more that I didn't); instead, any such sense of scale was a fortuitous by-product of scenes that were incorporated for these more specific reasons.

 

As you said, the inclusion of these scenes in some storylines in earlier seasons probably helped to imbue the whole story with a greater sense of scale, and this is something which is no longer being done to the same degree. All the same, I think it's incumbent upon the people who care at all about this sort of thing (I'd guess most casual viewers are pretty much oblivious to it; those that I know certainly are) to ask whether there are actual incongruities in the show's timeline before decrying them.

 

One thing that seemed dubious to me was Cersei asking Tycho Nestoris (Iron Bank Man) to hang around for fortnight for his guarantee of payment, which was presumably supposed to come from the looting of Highgarden. Jaime was still in King's Landing when that conversation happened. Is it within the bounds of reasonable credibility that he could get to Highgarden, conduct the siege, gather his winnings, and transport it back to the capital all within two weeks? Even if news of the victory would be enough to satisfy Tycho, a fortnight still feels like a hugely ambitious span of time...

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Wojo 2,453]

It really makes you wonder if the White Walkers are being fed information about the events of the south, like they're being told to wait until the civil war is over. (Do they get HBO north of the wall?) Jon and friends left Hardhome and our last big look at the army of the dead and its king several seasons ago, so what are they waiting for? I understand we no longer have POV characters at the wall, but even a baby crawls faster than this wight army is moving. 

[Arpy 4,145]

They should take the Indiana Jones method of travel with the Map transitions interstices with little clips of things the characters are doing during the journey.

2 minutes ago, Woj said:

It really makes you wonder if the White Walkers are being fed information about the events of the south, like they're being told to wait until the civil war is over. (Do they get HBO north of the wall?) Jon and friends left Hardhome and our last big look at the army of the dead and its king several seasons ago, so what are they waiting for? I understand we no longer have POV characters at the wall, but even a baby crawls faster than this wight army is moving. 

I think they're biding time but also they still believe the magic of the wall is still in effect. Hopefully next time we get more Walker stuff which will show them realising they can cross the wall now that Bran has passed.

[Wojo 2,453]

A little late to get cute with the map effects now, don't you think? It's a gimmick that would have gotten old so I'm glad they never started. 

[Quintus 5,399]

 

[Arpy 4,145]

10 hours ago, Woj said:

A little late to get cute with the map effects now, don't you think? It's a gimmick that would have gotten old so I'm glad they never started. 

GoT would need better music for it anyway.

[Wojo 2,453]

Well that one moved quickly. Wow. 

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Now that was a great screen battle.  Very clear action, great character moments, can't ask for much better.

[Jay 37,346]

That was awesome,  best battle since Hardhome. 

 

Bronn's gonna be rich now, he pierced a dragon and saved Jaime's ass! 

[Wojo 2,453]

Assuming that both men survive the dip in the lake wearing armor, and avoid capture/certain death. 

[Jay 37,346]

Well, I think if this was how Jaime dies, they would have just had him die from Drogon's fire blast. Showing him in the water to me means he'll survive, but great point I didn't think of, he could be captured again. 

 

Also they wouldn't kill Jaime off before he tells Cersei what Ollena told him. 

[Wojo 2,453]

No, that information does need to survive to be told by Jaime. I think Littlefinger may be the only others one who knows, but that's idle speculation. 

 

Daenerys needs an opportunity to confront the Kingslayer before either of them dies.

 

It is also possible that Jaime will not live to tell Cersei about Joffrey. He might only get the chance to tell Tyrion he knows it wasn't him, which would be a cop out. 

[Jay 37,346]

Right, there's lots of reasons they can't kill Jaime yet, so I'm sure he survived that water fall. 

 

I hope Bronn did, too! 

 

 

[KK 3,307]

Ok I admit, that was a badass episode.

 

The battle had faint echoes of the LOTR glory days. It's probably the first time we've gotten to see the full potential of Dany's army and the destructive force of her dragons. Good stuff.

[Muad'Dib 1,802]

The continuous shot of Bronn trying to escape from the Dothraki seemed like a fantasy version of SPR. 

 

Great stuff! Although those ellipsis keep bothering me quite a bit.

[Arpy 4,145]

A really good episode this week, it was great seeing

Spoiler

the immolation of the Lannister/Tarly(?) forces and seeing Tyrion's remorseful reaction to all the death and destruction.

Shame about the music, because Djawadi can carry the quieter, more emotional scenes such as the reunion in Winterfell, but there's no powerful scoring on the other end for the battle, aside from the rather tenuous hint of the Reigns of Castamere which is what, along with other production elements is missing in this show. There isn't the strong, full-bodied thematic heft that, say, LotR offers, instead the music lilts on the edge of the visuals, supporting them but just barely.

 

I'm too hard on the music, because apart from that the episode was brilliant!  

 

Spoiler

 

Is there a chance Dany and Jon might be interloping in the near future?

 

Loved seeing Littlefinger squirm as all of the Stark children suspect him of one thing or another, especially Arya. How long is it before they confront him about their father and mother's betrayal?

 

 

[Holko 9,519]

Picking up last week's Hobbit references, we finally saw two deleted scenes from BotFA: The Windlance getting destroyed, and Gandalf's Palantír vision of Smaug leading Sauron's armies and destroying everything!

[Arpy 4,145]

Does this mean Qyburn has to make another Windlance?

[Glóin the Dark 1,220]

Such a pity they cut the scene where Jon's crayons accidentally fall out of his pocket after they leave the cave. Really helped explain why Daenerys was in such a foul mood with him as well as Tyrion...

[Jay 37,346]

Arpy, please don't spoiler-block discussion of an episode that has already aired

[Arpy 4,145]

35 minutes ago, Jay said:

Arpy, please don't spoiler-block discussion of an episode that has already aired

Spoiler

Sorry

 

[Jay 37,346]

It's all good, just interupts the flow of discussion to have to click open blocks.  We really only need them in this thread when discussing episodes that haven't aired yet, IE  people who watch the "next time on" previews, or read spoilers/leaks

[Demodex 557]

Who was it that told Theon that Queen wasn't at Dragonstone?  Was Tyrion in that scene?  Because if so did he teleport to the battlefield?

[Disco Stu 15,495]

12 minutes ago, Demodex said:

Who was it that told Theon that Queen wasn't at Dragonstone?  Was Tyrion in that scene?  Because if so did he teleport to the battlefield?

 

Tyrion was not in that scene.  On the beach to greet Theon were Jon, Davos, Missandei, and a bunch of Dothraki extras.

[Demodex 557]

Ah, ok. Everything happened so fast I couldn't remember. 

[Bilbo 3,709]

Pity? It was pity that stayed Jon's hand. Many that live deserve death. Some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them, Frodo? Do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment. Even the very wise cannot see all ends. My heart tells me that Theon has some part to play yet, for good or ill before this is over. The pity of Jon may rule the fate of many.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

What?

[Jay 37,346]

Was Jon primarily just mad at Theon for his role in letting Winterfell get taken over / burned?  Because he knows Theon didn't actually kill Rickon and Bran, since he saw Rickon the battlefield in the Battle of the Bastards

[Damien F 1,742]

The direction of that final battle was fantastic. Probably the best realized dragon action scene I've ever seen. There were a few lingering shots of soldiers burning to death and that really emphasized the destruction Drogon and Dany where creating. 

 

I think the main reason this battle was so intense for many viewers is that there was no clear good vs evil dynamic such as Battle of the Bastards or Hardhome.

Cersei is definitely a villain, and technically Jaime and Bronn are on her side, but both are so likable there was no clear side to root for. A death on either side would have signaled the end of an important sympathetic character. Jaime is definitely not dead. Dying like that would be far too impersonal. If the writers wanted him gone today, he'd have been toasted by Drogon. That so called cliffhanger is actually the biggest weakness of the episode now that I think about it.

 

Jaime's arc throughout the whole series has been exceptional given that he started out crippling the lead character's son in the very first episode. I never thought I'd be rooting for him but he's evolved into a great multidimensional character. In fact, that brief conversation where he ordered that the men are given fair warning about the flogging because they fought well was probably there to ingratiate him with the audience right before the attack.

 

I hope he'll be brought back to Dragonstone as prisoner which would allow some great opportunities for scenes between him, Dany and Tyrion. Wouldn't it be great if Tyrion manages to convince him that Cersei isn't fit to rule and turn him to their side. It would be almost impossible but great nevertheless.

[Cerebral Cortex 3,357]

28 minutes ago, Jay said:

Was Jon primarily just mad at Theon for his role in letting Winterfell get taken over / burned?  Because he knows Theon didn't actually kill Rickon and Bran, since he saw Rickon the battlefield in the Battle of the Bastards

 

Possible because of Theon betraying Rob back in the day. 

 

16 minutes ago, Damien F said:

Wouldn't it be great if Tyrion manages to convince him that Cersei isn't fit to rule and turn him to their side. It would be almost impossible but great nevertheless.

1

 

If anybody could do it, it'd be Tyrion. 

[Glóin the Dark 1,220]

20 minutes ago, Jay said:

Was Jon primarily just mad at Theon for his role in letting Winterfell get taken over / burned?  Because he knows Theon didn't actually kill Rickon and Bran, since he saw Rickon the battlefield in the Battle of the Bastards

 

Jon already knew that Bran and Rickon hadn't been murdered, because Sam met Bran at the Nightfort (and we later saw Sam and Jon talking about it).

 

Remember that Theon's "role in letting Winterfell get taken over" was that he was the first one who took it over! He also beheaded Rodrik Cassel and murdered the two farmboys.