GAME OF THRONES

[Jay 37,346]

No, I don't think we'll see any of them ever again

[crocodile 8,000]

Wouldn't it be more dramatic if your living heroes had to face off against someone they used to know?

 

Karol

[Nick1Ø66 4,711]

If by more "dramatic" you mean, "wouldn't it suck and be incredibly shark jumping to have undead former characters showing up and fighting like a bad episode of Walking Dead", then yes.

[crocodile 8,000]

Yeah, like fighting the headless Sean Bean at Winterfell.

 

Karol

[Nick1Ø66 4,711]

[Marian Schedenig 8,191]

They're going to make a sequel series in 25 years. 80% of it will show the characters travelling wordlessly between locations, and all the classic cast members will reappear as zombies.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

1 hour ago, crumbs said:

 

You can reveal more about their species and still maintain the atmosphere when showing them. I vividly remember that excellent epilogue with the Night King taking the infant far north to convert him, at some kind of supernatural White Walker kingdom. We've never seen that location again but I always figured we'd go further north and discover their civilisation.

 

Forget the White Walker origins, we need a full episode of Branravens investigating how they got those chains.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Nick1Ø66 4,711]

13 minutes ago, BloodBoal said:

 

The real question is: can he breathe anything? Not only is he dead, but he has a big hole in his chest. And if he were to breathe fire/ice/whatever, wouldn't most of it come out from his chest instead of his mouth?

 

Do you really think there's even a remote possibility this dragon won't be breathing some kind of elemental destruction? 

Even a scintilla of a chance of that not happening?

[Jay 37,346]

35 minutes ago, crocodile said:

Wouldn't it be more dramatic if your living heroes had to face off against someone they used to know?

 

Karol

 

The drama will come from Daenrys having to kill one of her babies again

[Nick1Ø66 4,711]

Again?

[Jay 37,346]

Well you know what I mean, watching them die again

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Jay 37,346]

Good point about the javelin entry wound, BB.  I hadn't thought of that.  It's clear the dead bodies don't regenerate at all, with the one guy with half his neck missing that The Hound threw a rock at, etc

[Nick1Ø66 4,711]

38 minutes ago, BloodBoal said:

 

I'm just wondering how they'll make it work. Are they simply going to ignore the chest hole ("That never happened!"), or are they going to take it into account somehow?

 

I think they'll definitely show the wound...it will make the dragon look even more gruesome (like the undead bear).  But I doubt it will impact its ability to wreak havoc.

[Jay 37,346]

Sounds about right

[Nick1Ø66 4,711]

The more I think about it, the more I think this beast is going to play a pivotal role in the finale, and probably show up at King's Landing during the "truce" talks. Maybe it starts trashing the Red Keep and as soon as Cersei sees a dragon she accuses Dany & Co. of treachery and all hell breaks loose.

 

Then there's the fact that Cersei is damn clever and is always thinking three steps ahead of her enemies. It will be in her nature to have a trap set (it most certainly is a trap), and maybe somehow she finds a way to chain or otherwise incapacitate Dany's two dragons who are surely nearby.  And then when the ice dragon attacks, the only beasts that can defend the city are chained up.  Or something along those lines.

 

Whatever happens, Cersei isn't going to be persuaded by an undead wight (though Qyburn will love it), and even if she believes its real she won't care. She was willing to burn all of Kings Landing and brought down the Great Sept to smite her enemies. She'd let the whole world burn. Seeing a wight isn't going change a damn thing, which is what makes this entire plot line so incredibly stupid.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Nick1Ø66 4,711]

 I agree with Bloodboal 90%.

 

But I don't want everyone at Winterfell to die.

[Jay 37,346]

27 minutes ago, Nick1066 said:

The more I think about it, the more I think this beast is going to play a pivotal role in the finale, and probably show up at King's Landing during the "truce" talks. Maybe it starts trashing the Red Keep and as soon as Cersei sees a dragon she accuses Dany & Co. of treachery and all hell breaks loose.

 

Huh.  That would actually be something they'd do, and that reaction from Cersei would totally be in line with her character.

 

HOWEVER!  I think the point of the White Walker's powers is that, for whatever reason, it only works in the cold.  I think what will basically happen is, they breach the wall, and start marching south.  As they march, anyone they kill joins their army, so their army grows and grows.  But they can't actually attack King's Landing until its snowing there, which is why they aren't in a rush to head south yet.  It's not winter in all of Westeros yet (for some reason)

 

Quote

Then there's the fact that Cersei is damn clever and is always thinking three steps ahead of her enemies. It will be in her nature to have a trap set (it most certainly is a trap), and maybe somehow she finds a way to chain or otherwise incapacitate Dany's two dragons who are surely nearby.  And then when the ice dragon attacks, the only beasts that can defend the city are chained up.  Or something along those lines.

 

I honestly didn't understand that aspect of the last episode, but maybe I missed something.  What I mean is, it's Dany/Jon/Tyrion's plan to show Cersei (and the commonfolk?) a Wight, to prove the Walkers are the real threat, but does Cersei know they are coming with it yet, at this point?  What was her request for Sansa to come to King's Landing all about?  That's what I think I missed.  The scene where she sent Brienne in her place made no sense to me - why would she send Brienne, instead of simply ignoring the request all together?

My only thought was, maybe its a trap for Littlefinger, IE, make him think Brienne is leaving Winterfell, when she's really going to circle back and see what Littlefinger's next step is and then report back to Sansa or whatever.

 

 

Quote

Whatever happens, Cersei isn't going to be persuaded by a dead wight (though Qyburn will love it), and even if she believes its real she won't care. She was willing to burn all of Kings Landing and brought down the Great Sept to smite her enemies. She'd let the whole world burn. Seeing a wight isn't going change a damn thing, which is what makes this entire plot line so incredibly stupid.

 

That's what I think too, but it doesn't make the plotline stupid at all.  Cersei's reaction is predictable, of course; She may publicly support ceasing the war to send troops north to fight the walkers, but of course she'd secretly plan to attack Dany's army at the right time or whatever.  The unknown part isn't Cersei's reaction, but others.  How will Jaime react, for example?  Especially since (as far as he knows) he has a new child on the way?  How will the commonfolk react?  How will the maesters report the situation to the citadel?  Etc.

 

 

 

 

 

 

14 minutes ago, BloodBoal said:

Oh, and hopefully, everyone at Winterfell will die somehow.

 

Do you mean King's Landing and typed Winterfell by mistake?  Or do you actually no longer root for Sansa or Arya or Brienne or Podrick or Bran or Ghost?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Jay 37,346]

Have you never liked those characters, or did recent seasons sour you to them?

[Nick1Ø66 4,711]

36 minutes ago, Jay said:

 

That's what I think too, but it doesn't make the plotline stupid at all.  Cersei's reaction is predictable, of course; She may publicly support ceasing the war to send troops north to fight the walkers, but of course she'd secretly plan to attack Dany's army at the right time or whatever.  The unknown part isn't Cersei's reaction, but others.  How will Jaime react, for example?  Especially since (as far as he knows) he has a new child on the way?  How will the commonfolk react?  How will the maesters report the situation to the citadel?  Etc.

 

What's stupid about it is that it's a huge risk, and a huge gamble, with so little pay off. No one even questions this plan. Someone suggests it and off goes the King of the North. Who proceeds to act stupidly himself once he get there. Again.

 

And the consequences for capturing that wight were devastating. And in any event, the whole purpose of the mission was not to capture a wight...it was to get one of those dragons up north so it could be turned. It's just a plot contrivance, and one that requires the characters to behave stupidly to work. That's what bothers me.

 

Back to that wight though. The other thing is, Cersei already has her own "undead" creature with The Mountain, whose existence would give her even more reason to doubt the wight was genuine. If Qyburn could make The Undead Mountain, whose to say Dany couldn't do the same in an attempt at duplicity (from Cersei's POV)?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Jay 37,346]

13 minutes ago, Nick1066 said:

What's stupid about it is that it's a huge risk, and a huge gamble, with so little pay off. No one even questions this plan. Someone suggests it and off goes the King of the North. Who proceeds to act stupidly himself once he get there. Again.

 

One of my biggest problems with the show is actually how stupid they make Jon Snow act all the time.  Charging across the open field to rescue Rickon was so dumb, and he's done lots of dumb things this season too.  And he's supposed to be like the ultimate final main character!

 

13 minutes ago, Nick1066 said:

And in any event, the whole purpose of the mission was not to capture a wight...it was to get one of those dragons up north so it could be turned.

 

You're making a big assumption here!

 

13 minutes ago, Nick1066 said:

It's just a plot contrivance, and one that requires the characters to behave stupidly to work. That's what bothers me.

 

It bothers me to no end when I'm watching a show I like and the characters are being dumb simply because the writers need some outcome to happen and this is how they came up with the circumstances.  it sucks!

 

 

13 minutes ago, Nick1066 said:

Back to that wight though. The other thing, Cersei already has her own "undead" creature with The Mountain, whose existence would give her even more reason to doubt the wight was genuine. If Qyburn could make The Undead Mountain, whose to say Dany couldn't do the same (from Cersei's POV)?

 

Holy crap, I didn't think of that at all, that's really smart!  Unfortunately, I doubt the actual writers of the show thought of it either

 

 

8 minutes ago, BloodBoal said:

Littlefinger I used to like a lot in the first few seasons, but after a while, I grew weary of this character (it's the kind of character that has no evolution, much like Cersei, so after a while, you've seen everything you had to see with him).

 

Sansa was boring at first, but I was hoping her development would be interesting. It took 6 seasons for her to finally evolve, and while it was nice to see her finally become pro-active, she's been rather boring lately, with the writers struggling to keep her busy and make her do something interesting.

 

Bran is now more of a narrative device than a real character, unfortunately. It's hard to truly care for him.

 

And Arya, I was never truly fond of, unlike most people. I guess she started OK (and stuff like her journey with the Hound was rather fun), but since the House Of Black And White storyline, she's become quite annoying. At this point, I wouldn't give a fuck if she were to die in the next episode.

 

Arya was cool up until the training season, which was horribly written with a stupid ending.  She was kinda cool again for the two Frey sequences, but is really quite annoying now isn't she?

Sansa I want to be better than she is.  Showing her go through hell for 5 seasons is fine if the payoff is some spectacular, bad ass moments that result from it, but so far this season we have nothing!

 

Littlefinger was pretty consistently interesting through 6 seasons, but his arc has been so frustratingly confusing this season.  The writers seem to have no idea what to do with him or what his motivations and desires would be once Jon was King of the North and Cersei sat on the Iron Throne.  It's pretty sad.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Jay 37,346]

The Dragon and the Wolf... Dany and Jon?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Jay 37,346]

Holy fuck you're right!

[Nick1Ø66 4,711]

Or Viserion vs. Ghost!

[Jay 37,346]

On 8/8/2017 at 2:18 PM, Jay said:

Sunday's episode was not only the most watched show on all of TV that night, but is also the most watched GOT episode ever

 

10.17 million live viewers!

 

 

On 8/15/2017 at 3:39 PM, Jay said:

“Eastwatch” sets another ratings record for Game of Thrones

 

10.72 million live viewers

 

 

‘Game Of Thrones’ Viewership Dips From Series High; 2nd Best Result Ever

 

10.24 million live viewers.

The HBO Spain snafu hurt their numbers!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Jay 37,346]

Yea, its generally not that exciting when the audience knows information characters don't for an extended period of time

 

For example, all the scenes this season where Jon talks about "his father" ring differently knowing what we know.  Perhaps the Bran reveal shouldn't have happened until this season finale, instead of last year.  Why reveal it last year when its reveal has had absolutely certifiably no impact on anything that's happened for episodes and episodes and episodes since?

 

And I doubt Cersei knows he's a Targ.  There would be no reason for Gilly to discover it if Cersei will be the one to blurt it out.  Surely, Sam and Gilly will revisit the book and understand what it means, and probably Bran will also talk about it.  So far there's been absolutely no purpose to Bran at all this entire season, they have to give him SOMETHING to do!

[Nick1Ø66 4,711]

Good point about Jon...I think they let the cat out of the bag on his parentage too soon.  And for what? They've done zero with it, so why i introduce it so soon? What plot point did it serve? How did it move the story forward?

Everyone suspected it, of course, but no one knew. Knowing sort of takes the p*ss out of the whole thing.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Nick1Ø66 4,711]

Ned Stark figured out Joffrey's parentage just by looking at his hair colour!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Marian Schedenig 8,191]

1 hour ago, BloodBoal said:

And Arya, I was never truly fond of, unlike most people. I guess she started OK (and stuff like her journey with the Hound was rather fun), but since the House Of Black And White storyline, she's become quite annoying. At this point, I wouldn't give a fuck if she were to die in the next episode.

 

[Nick1Ø66 4,711]

Cersei: "Aren't you a little short for a Stark?"

Jon: "Oh, the uniform!"

[Quintus 5,399]

49 minutes ago, BloodBoal said:

Or Rhaegar and Lyanna!

 

Can someone just go over this again please, just briefly. I know it's likely that Jon and Dany are siblings and that Jon is also Dragonborn, but I can't remember the specifics from last year's info dump.

[Nick1Ø66 4,711]

Not siblings.

 

If anything, I believe Dany would be John's aunt. Rhaegar Targaryen, Dany's much older brother, apparently secretly married Lyanna Stark, Ned's younger sister (whom Robert Baratheon also loved). Jon is the presumed offspring of that union.

 

Ned kept Jon's true parentage a secret to protect Jon from Robert's wrath.

[Quintus 5,399]

Thanks.

 

Would have been awesome if they'd managed to keep this a surprise.

[Wojo 2,453]

20 minutes ago, Quintus said:

Would have been awesome if they'd managed to keep this a surprise.

 

Well I don't think that officially it's been revealed. The Season 6 season finale shows Bran observing Ned arriving to see his sister with a baby, though his words are indistinct, and that scene transitions to Jon. The father is not decisively named. 

 

The books dropped enough hints that the R+L=J theory first appeared as early as January 1998 on online forums discussing what readers expected from the second book. People figured this out long before the show was in the works. 

[Quintus 5,399]

Yeah I've gathered that. The only reason I know though is because I'm active online. I'm sure there'll be plenty watching who don't know the books and haven't a clue that twist is on the cards. I envy them.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Glóin the Dark 1,220]

13 hours ago, Jay said:

The Dragon and the Wolf... Dany and Jon?

 

13 hours ago, BloodBoal said:

Or Rhaegar and Lyanna!

 

Or just Jon...

[Disco Stu 15,495]

3 hours ago, BloodBoal said:

Pretty fun video about fan theories:

 

 

And another good one (Neat ending. Well played, Jerome Flynn!):

 

 

 

I'm now exclusively calling the Three-Eyed Raven the "Crow Whatsit."

[Jay 37,346]

17 hours ago, Quintus said:

Can someone just go over this again please, just briefly. I know it's likely that Jon and Dany are siblings and that Jon is also Dragonborn, but I can't remember the specifics from last year's info dump.

 

To expand on Nick1066's answer,

 

The Mad King's first born child was Prince Rhaegar Targaryen, who was a fine chap (not at all mad like his dad) and ended up marrying Elia Martel of Dorne - The Viper's sister.  They had some babies together, but then after winning the big tournament at Harrenhal, instead of crowning his wife Elia "The Queen of Love and Beauty", he walked right past her and crowned Lyanna Stark such instead! (Littlefinger tells this story in season 1)  A little later, Rhaegar and Lyanna both disappeared, and Robert Baratheon (who was in love with Lyanna Stark) became enraged that Rhaegar had "kidnapped" her.

 

This basically was the final spark to convince Robert, Ned, Tywin (The Mad King's Hand) and Jaime (the Mad King's Kingsguard) to overthrow him.  Tywin had The Mountain murder Rhaegar and Elia's babies as well as rape and kill Elia (which is what The Viper wanted revenge against The Mountain for), while Robert killed Rhaegar in The Battle of the Trident, and of course Jaime killed The Mad King on the throne.

 

After all that, Ned finally figured out where his sister was.  Him and Howland Reed (Meera's dad) went up to that tower, and that's when Ned found his sister dying after birthing her and Rhaegar's son - turns out he never kidnapped her at all, but they were actually in love.  And in a recent episode Gilly found out that Rhaegar had anulled his marriage from Elia and legally wed Lyanna, making Jon Snow the true legal heir to the Targaryen throne, before Dany (a child of the first born gets it before a later born).  

 

Since at this point Robert had decreed all Targaryens must be killed, Ned knew Robert would never let Lyanna's son live, so he took him home to Winterfell and pretended it was his own son, a result of a tryst during the war, and never told anyone the truth - not even his wife Catelyn, who would grow to hate Jon Snow ruthlessly (in the books more-so than the show).  Though, Ned did promise to finally tell Jon the truth the next time they saw each other when they parted ways when he was summoned to King's Landing to be Robert's Hand (after Jon Arryn was poisoned after he figured out Cersei's kids were really Jaime's and not Robert's) back in season 1, but he of course died before he could tell him (or anyone else).  

 

So currently Bran knows one half of the story (Jon Snow is the son of Lyanna Stark) and Sam/Gilly know the other half (Lyanna Stark was legally wed to Prince Rhaegar Targaryen at the time) -- if they can put 2 and 2 together that is.

 

TL;DR: The Mad King's first born son is Prince Rhaegar Targaryen, who fathered Jon Snow while wed to Lyanna Stark; The Mad King's last-born (many years later after a series of stillbirths) daughter is Daenerys, who would therefore be Jon's Aunt despite being about the same age as him.

[Quintus 5,399]

Jason you beautiful bastard, I knew you'd come through with this!

 

Thanks a lot, very helpful 

[Wojo 2,453]

28 minutes ago, Jay said:

 And in a recent episode Gilly found out that Rhaegar had anulled his marriage from Elia and legally wed Lyanna, making Jon Snow the true legal heir to the Targaryen throne, before Dany (a child of the first born gets it before a later born).  

 

Jon is the first heir because he is male. Were Dany to be a male, she would be next in line. Viserys would have been in line before Jon, but he done fucked up. 

 

Jon is only alive because Ned Stark was a big and kind enough man to put the life of his innocent baby nephew ahead of his own honor and pride, accepting the child into his family as his own bastard son. This protected Jon from the wrath of Robert Baratheon, though it forever put a strain on his marriage with Catelyn, who he could never tell.