GAME OF THRONES

[Bilbo 3,709]

14 minutes ago, Glóin the Dark said:

Who'd have thought that the social media culture would facilitate a system of self-reinforcing opinion loops?!

 

I know nobody (off the internet) who has expressed serious disappointment with the current season so far. Reactions to the third episode have ranged from positive to ecstatic.

 

This. Everyone I know who watches the show has been enjoying season 8 but the internet would have you believe that everyone hates it. 

 

The ratings for season 8 have been very strong and I don’t expect much of any impact next week.

[Quintus 5,399]

37 minutes ago, Bilbo said:

It really isn’t as bad as the Internet is making out. I’m growing very weary of this “it’s either the best thing ever or the worst” narrative that’s so popular at the moment. There’s no middle ground at all. 

 

Actually, for a finale season, to the biggest serial in the world, I think it's diabolically shite.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

It will be a benchmark for decades.

[Alex 2,835]

I’m not sure I’ve ever seen a series decline so rapidly in two episodes

[John 2,032]

Yeah? Try watching The Office after Michael moves to Colorado. 

[Alex 2,835]

 

12 minutes ago, John said:

Yeah? Try watching The Office after Michael moves to Colorado. 

 

I only watch the UK version! Much better.

[KK 3,307]

3 minutes ago, Alex said:

I’m not sure I’ve ever seen a series decline so rapidly in two episodes

 

Well let's not pretend that GoT was still the stuff of gold before Battle of Winterfell. The show has been in a proper steady decline since season 7, and probably for some time before that too. I'd say this season's worst tendencies are very much in line with the kind of writing we saw last year. It's just that we're dealing with more narrative payoff now, so the crummier writing just hits harder.

 

What was once an intriguing teleplay based in a pseudo-fantasy world, has become your typical Hollywood spectacle over character blockbuster. Still makes for great entertainment every now and then, but it's a very different kind of beast now.

[Glóin the Dark 1,220]

16 hours ago, TheUlyssesian said:

The Martin books will have a hard time - if he doesn't finish them. So yeah, he owes it to his own legacy.

 

But surely (insofar as he could be said to owe it to his legacy) what he owes is to get the story right according to his own taste and judgement. And if what's holding him up is not creative problems but simply a lack of effort, it's up to him how much he values his legacy versus living his life!

[Bilbo 3,709]

25 minutes ago, KK said:

 

Well let's not pretend that GoT was still the stuff of gold before Battle of Winterfell. The show has been in a proper steady decline since season 7, and probably for some time before that too. I'd say this season's worst tendencies are very much in line with the kind of writing we saw last year. It's just that we're dealing with more narrative payoff now, so the crummier writing just hits harder.

 

What was once an intriguing teleplay based in a pseudo-fantasy world, has become your typical Hollywood spectacle over character blockbuster. Still makes for great entertainment every now and then, but it's a very different kind of beast now.

 

Its been in decline since season 5 tbh

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

5 and 6 were a step down. 7 was woeful.

[Bilbo 3,709]

I would argue gradual decline.

 

Its still entertaining as hell though imo. 

[Wojo 2,453]

It's still fun. Illogical but fun. Give me this over the Hobbity movies any day. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The show sunk once we saw Dany, after all those seasons in Mereen, trying to be a just ruler. Starting to subjugate or burn the population of Westeros.

 

Oh well.

[KK 3,307]

9 minutes ago, Bilbo said:

 

Its been in decline since season 5 tbh

Yea, I can get on board with that. The GoT fatigue probably only really started to hit me around season 6 I think. Before that, I was still very much looking forward to every GoT Sunday, warts and all.

[Glóin the Dark 1,220]

I think you could reasonably say that it's been in decline since the first season!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Nah, it was quality tv for years, with Golden Age level storytelling. All adapted from the books.

[Wojo 2,453]

4 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

The show sunk once we saw Dany, after all those seasons in Mereen, trying to be a just ruler. Starting to subjugate or burn the population of Westeros.

 

Oh well.

 

Her policies from Essos don't work in Westeros. In Essos, she freed slaves and they loved her, mostly. In Westeros, a generation of propaganda worked against her. The only reason she has allies in Westeros at all is that the North needed her forces to fight the dead army. Now because that fight is over, she's being seen as what her original ancestors were first seen as: a foreign invader. 

[Bilbo 3,709]

2 minutes ago, Glóin the Dark said:

I think you could reasonably say that it's been in decline since the first season!

 

Its funny because pretty much every season “not as good as the last one... not as good as season 1-2... not as good as seasons 1-3...” etc.

 

I remember a lot of people were talking about boredom while season 3 was airing but then the red wedding happened. 

 

People were saying Season 4 wasn’t as good as season 3 etc.

 

The writing is not as good as it was in earlier seasons (as soon as the best books were adapted really) but it’s still been a thrilling ride and a lot of fun and I don’t regret the hours I’ve spent watching it. 

 

The average Joe on the street also seems to still be enjoying the show so I don’t think HBO are too worried. 

[Jay 37,352]

Seasons 1-4, which adapted the original trilogy of good books, was great!

 

Seasons 5-6, which adapted his much-less-well-received books 4&5 and started going beyond them, was a weird series of highs and lows, ups and downs.... with some storylines being very well done and some just being kind of... pointless

 

Seasons 7-8, which are beyond anything in published books and seem to be steamrolling towards an ending he might have told them he was planning on for his books a decade ago, have some nice spectacle but lots and lots of illogical and un-set-up plot points and some wonky storytelling.

[Glóin the Dark 1,220]

4 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

Nah, it was quality tv for years

 

It still is, but the first season is the one with the most consistently high quality.

 

2 minutes ago, Bilbo said:

Its funny because pretty much every season “not as good as the last one..."

 

I think the average quality has been decreasing in general (perhaps not strictly with each season better than the next), but the high points of each season so far have been reaching a consistently high level.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

1 hour ago, mstrox said:

 

This guy!  When I remember.  I like honing my recommendations!

 

Otherwise, it's pretty unenlightening, because I tend to like most things, so almost everything gets a C-grade (7/10) or better.  I would have given the last two GoT episodes a B (8/10).

 

You should see the entire obscene obsessive check-in/rating folder I have for TV and movies.  Movies get a check-in and a rating on IMDB, a check-in and a rating on Letterboxd, and a rating on Flickchart.  TV shows get a check-in and rating on IMDB when I remember, and check-ins on Trakt, tv show tracker, Next Episode, and TV Time.  WE ALL HAVE HOBBIES

 

I use (and rate on) Letterboxd.  But the rating isn't really the point.  I use it as a movie diary, just to remember what I've watched.  I'm certainly not trying to participate in a campaign or steer the zeitgeist.

[Holko 9,525]

I think the first few episodes of S01 are very clunky at getting out a lot of exposition and worldbuilding. I think it only gets really great when Ned gets captured and stays that way until S05 (of course still having its great moments from then, just with decreasing consistency).

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Its a rubbish show! From the start!

[Marian Schedenig 8,192]

4 hours ago, Stefancos said:

8 hours ago, Arpy said:

What reason did we have to believe they were invulnerable?

 

Because that's what the show has been hinting at for years?

 

Has it? No more than is traditional, surely?

Your traditional dragon is almost invulnerable, but very easy to kill if you know how and/or are skilled enough. C.f. Smaug, who can easily be killed by a single arrow if you're a good shot and know his weak spot. Or numerous other traditional dragons either die the Shelob death by impaling themselves on the hero's weapon (though note that Shelob herself survives even that) or are killed by stupidly trying to swallow the hero whole, sword and all, giving him he opportunity to stab them through the mouth.

 

I never expected the Targaryen dragons to be above such weaknesses.

2 hours ago, Alex said:

I’m not sure I’ve ever seen a series decline so rapidly in two episodes

 

Coupling, after Jeff.

1 hour ago, Glóin the Dark said:

But surely (insofar as he could be said to owe it to his legacy) what he owes is to get the story right according to his own taste and judgement. And if what's holding him up is not creative problems but simply a lack of effort, it's up to him how much he values his legacy versus living his life!

 

Indeed. Even though we may not like it. I certainly don't.

[mstrox 6,651]

1 hour ago, Disco Stu said:

 

I use (and rate on) Letterboxd.  But the rating isn't really the point.  I use it as a movie diary, just to remember what I've watched.  I'm certainly not trying to participate in a campaign or steer the zeitgeist.

 

Well, yeah - same here.  I'm not looking to encourage or discourage people to watch things.  I rate them for me, to remember what I liked or didn't care for, to remember what I've seen, to make lists of things I want to see.  I also don't write reviews or anything, I just give everything a star rating.

[TheUlyssesian 2,478]

1 hour ago, Glóin the Dark said:

I think you could reasonably say that it's been in decline since the first season!

 

GOT is a mirage of quality. Years later, people will watch it and wonder what was the fuss about.

 

I can certainly appreciate that it became a genuine international phenomenon. But that does not equal merit.

 

To sum it up like a famous cast member, 'It's just tits and dragons for heaven's sake.'

[mstrox 6,651]

My Worst since I started Letterboxding!

as you can see, I make it up to “d-grade” of 3/5 pretty quickly.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

[Bilbo 3,709]

Jurassic World is far from great but it’s a hell of a lot better than the first three films in the image!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

BvS is great!

[John 2,032]

No!

[mstrox 6,651]

I give it a D!  I'm willing to give it another chance with the extended version someday, since people swear it's better - but my spouse will never watch it again, so I'll have to carve out three of my own hours to do so.

 

I give season 8 of GoT a B so far, pretty good but not great.  There's still room to go up, if they stick a landing.  Ratings!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The extended version is better

[Disco Stu 15,495]

I despise Jurassic World.  It’s my own ratings for no one else but me so I don’t have to feign any kind of objectivity.  If I hate a movie for weird personal reasons I don’t hesitate to rate it 1/2 or 1 star

[bollemanneke 3,342]

I haven't been following the GOT mania at all (I only watch episodes, no interviews/articles etc), but is it possible that Martin will publish the books (or at least one of them) right after the series ends? I know it sounds illogical, but he can't honestly have come up with nothing publishable since 2011. Or are we never going to see these books? I'm finally planning on reading the first one, but kept keep telling myself it would be better to wait until the whole thing gets published. 

[Jay 37,352]

No, it's not possible.  He hasn't even finished writing it yet.

 

Book 6 could literally never get finished, never get published.  All we can do is wait and see

[Wojo 2,453]

2 hours ago, Jay said:

Book 6 could literally never get finished

 

That would be the worst kind of "literally" to describe a book. 

[Marian Schedenig 8,192]

3 hours ago, bollemanneke said:

I know it sounds illogical, but he can't honestly have come up with nothing publishable since 2011.

 

He's written other stuff. He obviously either hasn't yet been able to bring book 6 to a state he's happy with, or he simply prefers doing other projects.

[Arpy 4,145]

4 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

I despise Jurassic World.  It’s my own ratings for no one else but me so I don’t have to feign any kind of objectivity.  If I hate a movie for weird personal reasons I don’t hesitate to rate it 1/2 or 1 star

Jurassic World is an affront to every sensibility I have regarding Jurassic Park. It's crass and cheap-looking, and makes me feel disappointed that it's in the same franchise.

[John 2,032]

I won't begrudge people their likes and dislikes, but I don't see how anyone can hate Jurassic World and yet like the original two Jurassic Park sequels

[Chen G. 3,949]

They're so much better to Jurassic World.

 

The Lost World is still a Spielberg film, and even the third film at least has some atmosphere in some of the reveals.

[Bilbo 3,709]

34 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said:

 

He's written other stuff. He obviously either hasn't yet been able to bring book 6 to a state he's happy with, or he simply prefers doing other projects.

 

I still think there’s a possibility that he’ll announce book 6 shortly after season 8. But who really knows.

 

I’d love to see the reaction if he actually announced Dunc and Egg 4 instead 😂

[Disco Stu 15,495]

5 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

The Lost World is still a Spielberg film

 

This.  Every single suspense sequence of Lost World is wonderful.   It might have issues in the character/plot, but as filmmaking craft that movie has more worth in a single frame than the entirety of Jurassic World.

[bollemanneke 3,342]

10 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

They're so much better to Jurassic World.

 

The Lost World is still a Spielberg film, and even the third film at least has some atmosphere in some of the reveals.

I found both TLW and III boring, but watched them a long time ago so might need to revisit them. Jurassic World was very entertaining, though, while its sequel was just okay.

[Chen G. 3,949]

I'm not too averse to Jurassic World. But I do think Jurassic Park III and especially The Lost World are better.

[John 2,032]

The Lost World is dull and quite dreary for most of its runtime, up until the San Diego finale.

 

Jurassic Park III is pure, dumb schlock from start to finish. For me it's the definition of "so bad it's good"

[Yavar Moradi 2,599]

9 hours ago, Jay said:

Wow people are rating this episode REAL low

 

 

That low season 5 episode is the one where Sansa gets raped by Ramsay (and Jaime and Bronn begin their Dorne adventure)

 

What you may be missing however is that the low rating came in fast and furious on IMDb (averaging a 7.1), early in the day before the episode even aired (there were even a bunch of "reviews" posted at the time, complaining about people rating the episode low before even seeing it). This tells me that it's mostly backlash relating to "The Long Night", which conversely started out with a super high (10) episode rating before it even aired. Add in the effect of a lot of reviewers just jumping on the bandwagon and the low episode rating makes sense. Personally I thought it was a clear step up from the disappointment of the previous episode, though obviously still a far cry from Bryan Cogman's 8.2 "A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms" (which I'm guessing will remain the best of the season, sadly...why was he only brought on for that single episode, again??). That one should honestly be higher rated than it is, IMO.

Yavar

[ChrisAfonso 186]

1 hour ago, Marian Schedenig said:

 

He's written other stuff. He obviously either hasn't yet been able to bring book 6 to a state he's happy with, or he simply prefers doing other projects.

 

Given that three years ago (according to a lengthy blog post) he at one point thought he could make a three month deadline to get the book ready for publication before season 6, the former seems likely to me - he's got a lot of it done, but struggles with the rest and/or rewrites existing chapters because he's not content with what's there. The pressure of "it has to be better than the show" surely doesn't help.

However, if the latter helps him clear his head and get a fresh outlook on continuing the story, all the better for him. I know I get frustrated about the lack of WoW when it's GoT season or I'm in a phase of revisiting the books, but otherwise, there's lots of other stuff to read/watch/play/do in the meantime, what he's already written is great and was worth all the time I invested in it, conclusion or not. And when he's eventually done someday, all the better - a man can dream.

 

-------------

 

edit: That chart up there has a highly misleading vertical scale...

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

I'm a big defender of "The Long Night", I found it a riveting and enjoyable episode with a thrilling conclusion. Not the best of the battle episodes, but it did well enough.

 

"Last of the Starks" was crap though. Really disappointing, and the whole thing just reeked of piece-moving. Couldn't believe how easily Rhaegal was taken down, and the confrontation at the end was so riddled with poor writing, blocking and direction. Ghost was really fucked over. Tormund should have died last week (as should have Podrick, Grey Worm, Missandei, Gilly and Sam Tarly). A real low point, though probably not as bad as "Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken".

 

I'll still watch the last two of course, and hopefully next week's battle is a good one.