GAME OF THRONES

[Edmilson 7,398]

10 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

it was still better than most of what's on TV.

You've probably been watching too many shows on The CW then 

 

BTW, isn't it sad that how GoT fooled us into thinking it would birth a new era of high quality epic fantasy shows and instead we got The Witcher, Rings of Power, The Wheel of Time and the final seasons (in plural) of GOT over the last few years.

 

Pray every day to the Seven that Are One that House of the Dragon doesn't lose its quality over its next three seasons.

[Nick1Ø66 4,689]

5 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

BTW, isn't it sad that how GoT fooled us into thinking it would birth a new era of high quality epic fantasy shows and instead we got The Witcher, Rings of Power, The Wheel of Time and the final seasons (in plural) of GOT over the last few years.

 

I never thought that. Quality epic fantasy is almost impossible to do for film & TV. It's something of a minor miracle that we got LOTR & GOT, and that there were as good as they are, in the first place. Some of us here knew what Rings of Power & The Wheel of Time were going to be from the start. Even House of the Dragon, which is fantastic and one of the best shows on TV, doesn't measure up to the first four seasons of Game of Thrones, IMO.

 

And I don't think I've ever seen a single CW show.  

 

 

 

 

[Yavar Moradi 2,592]

For me season 8 started shaky, righted itself with a SUPERB second episode (the last episode of the series written by the great Bryan Cogman, so no surprise), and then tragically for the most part shit the bed with the remaining four extra-length episodes. There was still some really good stuff even in the worst episodes though, such as Arya's final meeting with the Hound. Just great stuff between those two characters/actors.

 

I don't think season 7 was as bad as season 8 by any means. There were more good episodes and some great moments (Jaime and the Queen of Thorns, the Lannister army being destroyed by dragons, and of course the duel between Arya and Brienne... all awesome.) But it was definitely a step down from season 6. That season had problems but was overall still very good IMO. Amazing finale too, with Cersei's play, and I think this season also has the best score of all eight.

 

Yavar

[Glóin the Dark 1,220]

20 hours ago, Edmilson said:

IMHO the title of "worst GOT episode ever" is...[B]eyond the [W]all...

 

My favorite episode is still Hardhome...

 

I agree with both. In the case of the former, I don't think the premise was terrible (especially by the sloppy standards of plotting which characterise the later seasons of the series), but the execution was dire. In particular, it had none of the inspired film-making which allowed some other episodes to transcend the sloppiness of the storytelling, most notably the ones directed by Miguel Sapochnik. It's very disappointing that Sapochnik (last I heard) has left the House of the Dragon directing team with one of his replacements being Alan Taylor, director of Beyond the Wall.

[Yavar Moradi 2,592]

Beyond the Wall was incompetently plotted, but I thought the character writing and character acting were superb. Lots of memorable conversation pairings between characters. And I'll take the big action sequences over those that Sapochnik did in The Long Night, personally.

 

Yavar

[Edmilson 7,398]

GRRM is too depressed with the state of the world and current affairs to continue writing:

 

https://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/2024/01/29/dark-days/

[MaxMovieMan 269]

Ugh he needs to grow up and realize we live in a fucked up world. He literally writes about the worst parts of humanity and he can’t stomach real life?

[Marian Schedenig 8,178]

2 hours ago, MaxMovieMan said:

Ugh he needs to grow up and realize we live in a fucked up world. He literally writes about the worst parts of humanity and he can’t stomach real life?

 

Perhaps that's why he's good at writing about it? And of course, he doesn't say anywhere in that post that he's going to stop writing because he's depressed. If anything, he *wrote* that blog post *because* of it.

[GerateWohl 4,343]

2 hours ago, MaxMovieMan said:

Ugh he needs to grow up and realize we live in a fucked up world. He literally writes about the worst parts of humanity and he can’t stomach real life?

So, you think, growing up means to not care?

I believe you are wrong.

 

[Tom Guernsey 2,281]

1 hour ago, GerateWohl said:

So, you think, growing up means to not care?

I believe you are wrong.

 

Agreed... he's an adult and maybe things really are worse now than they were. I'm a 40 something man and can't remember feeling quite so out of sorts with the state of the world in my lifetime. "Growing up" sometimes means actually realising how shitty things really are... being young and naive is a blessing sometimes.

[MaxMovieMan 269]

That’s the excuse for why old people are so grumpy all the time. “Today isn’t as good as their glory days.” Every older generation always says the same thing. However the reality is that things are better now than they’ve ever been in history for the most part. Another big thing is that people have more entitlement and privilege than ever before because of the internet. There’s a difference between caring and then complaining about how shitty the world is. It’s a little strange and entitled considering how successful he is. Promote change and help the world without being a sourpuss and an angry person.

[Edmilson 7,398]

13 hours ago, MaxMovieMan said:

However the reality is that things are better now than they’ve ever been in history for the most part.

[MaxMovieMan 269]

Go back to the 20th century and tell me how we’re worse now than we were then as a society and culture🤣

 

To be honest though there’s no point in arguing about this since I won’t change your minds and you won’t change mine. However just saying that wars, famine, inclusion, human rights, healthcare, morality; you’d be hard pressed to find a stat saying those are worse now than then.

[HunterTech 987]

Worse now? In certain respects: not quite. At a more acceptable level? Far from it. If anything, the current climate just further reinforces several of the roadblocks humanity can never seem to get past. And unlike before, it is insanely easy to access it all from your fingertips.

 

There's a difference between reading about it in history books versus actually witnessing it yourself.

[MaxMovieMan 269]

Well that’s a humanity problem then. Point still stands that this is better now than it was then. History books are there for a reason, to tell history. And throughout our history there has been complete hell and anarchy. Our society today is pretty damn good. I’m not gonna complain when compared to our distant relatives from yesteryear. Humanity will always do humanity stuff. We’re not perfect but I think as far as a democracy goes we’re approaching as good as it gets.

[Marian Schedenig 8,178]

9 hours ago, MaxMovieMan said:

We’re not perfect but I think as far as a democracy goes we’re approaching as good as it gets.

 

You keep saying "we" and I'm not sure who you mean. Because the world is a very heterogeneous place; there is no single "as a society and culture". Even if it long-term steps many things have overall tended to get better, at the same time the danger of wiping out (or at least severely crippling) the entire human population is currently at one of its peaks (and is also something that didn't even exist for much longer than perhaps a century). And in at least several worrisome, "our" society from my POV is closer to what it was like 100 years ago compared to 30 years ago. (And my POV is still a relatively privileged one compared to many others)

[MaxMovieMan 269]

Yes but it was inevitable the world would eventually develop weapons of mass destruction. If the science could take humanity there then they’ll go. And there is a “we.” We are a human race and I think it says a lot that there are laws in place to stop countries from firing those weapons. In fact the amount of those weapons has gone down in recent years.

 

I highly disagree that “our” society is closer to what it was 100 years ago compared to 30 years ago. I think women’s and racial rights speak for themselves as well as the benefits regular people can get. Yeah there are terrible places in the world still and I’m not condoning any of that or the atrocities that take place. But the amount of these atrocities and awful events is less than it was 30 years ago statistically. Crime has gone down and there are more alliances in place for major countries to protect civilians than ever before. Plus there is a platform now for these events to be shown and brought to light. Morally the world is better than it’s ever been on the whole. The average citizen of the superpowers of the world is good-hearted I feel which is something that can’t be said for most of history.

 

The problem with “my” culture in my opinion is the biased media and the reactionary attitude towards everything in life. Also the issue with only reading a catchy headline and then complaining about it on Twitter. If the news just said things as they are we’d all be on the same page. Speaking for the rest of the world I can’t say since I haven’t lived everywhere but in our modern age it appears like good morals are nearly universal across the board besides some notable outliers. I’ve traveled to several countries and hospitality and kindness is everywhere. Again though this is pointless to argue about you won’t change my mind I won’t change yours. From my experience in life working in retail/public service while also doing college the vast majority of everyone I interact with are genuine and morally the public seems to be on the same/right page. We’re much better than the setting that Game of Thrones is based on with the dark ages.

[Yavar Moradi 2,592]

I sure do wish the world actually was as you see it!

 

Atrocities on the decline over the past 30 years?! Civilians being protected thanks to a system of international laws? Wow, do I wish.

 

Yavar

[A. A. Ron 1,740]

Yep. This reeks of, "I don't see any of these problems in the 'news' I consume or in my own every day life, therefore they must not exist."

[MaxMovieMan 269]

57 minutes ago, A. A. Ron said:

Yep. This reeks of, "I don't see any of these problems in the 'news' I consume or in my own every day life, therefore they must not exist."

 

8 hours ago, MaxMovieMan said:

Yeah there are terrible places in the world still and I’m not condoning any of that or the atrocities that take place.

As I said I’m not condoning any of the atrocities. For example in Israel or Ukraine. There are horrific things happening right now and I’m not denying that. And I’ve dealt with plenty of financial hardships and struggles throughout my life enough to understand how things work.

 

George RR Martin in his blog for one thing is very politically leaning towards a certain side and for another as I said he’s complaining about what old people often complain about; things aren’t like the “good old days.” He speaks of how his fellow writers are passing away and that he feels alone. That is just a part of life. Also I heavily disagree with his stance on immigrants (Immigrants have more opportunities than ever in the USA) and the dictator aspect of Trump but that’s a political discussion not worth bringing up here. George complains about nukes, wars, the ex-president, and rights for individuals but I don’t see how any of those issues are worse now than they were 30 or however many years ago. Standards are much higher now to stop nonsensical actions. I can’t personally see how 2023 was such an awful year and 2024 looks to be an even worse year. I think we’ve been on the come up since the low of 2020 personally.

 

I do agree with his stance on the current state of the internet and fandom. That has been horrible since “The Last Jedi.”

[Glóin the Dark 1,220]

No matter how one compares the average quality of life today to that of the past, it's undeniable that events of recent times have demonstrated (on several fronts) the precariousness of our situation in a manner which wasn't quite so starkly obvious before. On top of that, the fact that information and images are now captured and disseminated with such ease and speed means that horrifying events and conditions are being brought to the attention of others with unprecedented immediacy. There's nothing reproachable about a person feeling pessimistic or depressed in such circumstances.

  

 

7 hours ago, MaxMovieMan said:

...that’s a political discussion not worth bringing up here.

 

It's not that it isn't worth bringing up; just that it's explicitly against the forum rules.

 

 

On 30/01/2024 at 10:08 AM, MaxMovieMan said:

Ugh he needs to grow up and realize we live in a fucked up world.

 

People tend to express opinions about the things that worry or bother them. After all, here you are complaining about what some guy writes on his blog.

[MaxMovieMan 269]

Correct a better way to say it would’ve been that it’s not appropriate for this forum. I apologize. I was saying it as in there’s no point in bringing it up because I know you guys will have a completely different opinion than me and there’s no point in a discussion where we will vehemently disagree. The topic itself is worth a lot of discussion but yes this is a Game of Thrones sub forum on a John Williams forum so it shouldn’t be brought up. I’m only still going on about this because of responses and the fact that George said it.

 

And I hate to keep responding to these posts but I think it’s valid to defend my reasoning and not come across the wrong way. That said I still think it’s absurd to be acting like how he is in his blog. It’s all good to be upset about what’s happening but as I’ve said what bothers me is how he is acting like we are living in the worst state we’ve ever been in. Better access to viewing events of the world doesn’t mean that the world itself is worse off. And it’s his decision at the end of the day to look at this stuff if it bothers him so much he can put the computer away. The events themselves have been going on for centuries and factually have decreased in extremity in recent years. It’s my opinion though and again there is no point in arguing about this since you guys won’t change your minds and I won’t change mine. I was responding to what I thought was an over-exaggeration and excessive complaining from George which he has been doing more and more lately. He is a generally bitter person anyways so I’m not surprised he has an opinion like this. His blogpost wasn’t about having access to seeing this stuff anyways it was about the events themselves and I personally don’t think what’s going on in the world recently is is the worst that has gone on in the history of the globe hell even the United States. I do respect his and y’all’s opinions though and I can understand why people think this way.

[Marian Schedenig 8,178]

4 hours ago, MaxMovieMan said:

Correct a better way to say it would’ve been that it’s not appropriate for this forum.

 

Not just not appropriate. Forbidden as a topic of discussion under the terms of use (because we know from earlier years how these things escalate).

 

4 hours ago, MaxMovieMan said:

The events themselves have been going on for centuries and factually have decreased in extremity in recent years. It’s my opinion though

 

I'm not sure what supposed facts you refer to; I don't even know where one would find overall statistics like that, or how to objectively measure them in the first place. And with regards to statistics, it's also always a question of the range of data you're looking it. A "things everywhere" better than they were 10,000 years ago? 2,000 years? 100 years? 10 years? 1 year?

 

As for the emphasis, well…

 

4 hours ago, MaxMovieMan said:

And I hate to keep responding to these posts but I think it’s valid to defend my reasoning and not come across the wrong way. That said I still think it’s absurd to be acting like how he is in his blog. It’s all good to be upset about what’s happening but as I’ve said what bothers me is how he is acting like we are living in the worst state we’ve ever been in. Better access to viewing events of the world doesn’t mean that the world itself is worse off. And it’s his decision at the end of the day to look at this stuff if it bothers him so much he can put the computer away. […] I was responding to what I thought was an over-exaggeration and excessive complaining from George which he has been doing more and more lately. He is a generally bitter person anyways so I’m not surprised he has an opinion like this.

 

Nowhere does he say that things are worse than they ever were. And his "excessive complaining" is a personal post on his personal blog about how the current state of affairs weighs on his mind. That's a perfectly valid response to events that bother him. Ignoring the news because one is bothered by them may be one way to deal with things, but not a good one in my opinion, and supposedly not in his. And being bothered by them is not a weakness (nor is not being bothered by things a strength).

 

In the end, what we're talking about here is you excessively complaining about him voicing his feelings on his personal blog.

[MaxMovieMan 269]

6 hours ago, Marian Schedenig said:

I'm not sure what supposed facts you refer to; I don't even know where one would find overall statistics like that, or how to objectively measure them in the first place. And with regards to statistics, it's also always a question of the range of data you're looking it. A "things everywhere" better than they were 10,000 years ago? 2,000 years? 100 years? 10 years? 1 year?

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/06/200616113913.htm
 

Here’s one statistic of many show My how crime and violence have gone down in the last 30 years. In fact most violence has been decreasing steadily since the 90s. So that is factually correct my friend.

 

6 hours ago, Marian Schedenig said:

Nowhere does he say that things are worse than they ever were.

Did we read the same blogpost? He has a whole section speaking of how the internet has turned toxic and how many of his fellow writers are gone.

 

“The era of rational discourse seems to have ended.“ - George RR Martin (From his blogpost)

 

As I said I am only “excessively complaining” because you are responding to me and I believe in fair discourse.

[Marian Schedenig 8,178]

18 minutes ago, MaxMovieMan said:

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/06/200616113913.htm
 

Here’s one statistic of many show My how crime and violence have gone down in the last 30 years.

 

"While the first half of the twentieth century marked a period of extraordinary violence, the world has become more peaceful in the past 30 years, a new statistical analysis of the global death toll from war suggests."

 

That's *one* thing that the study says has improved, in the investigated time frame. Whether other things have gotten better or worse was not part of that analysis.

 

"The results suggest that, in addition to a distinct beginning and end to the unprecedented bloodshed of 1910-1950, there was another abrupt shift towards a greater level of peace in the early 1990s."

 

From the synopsis, it's also not clear to me what that means for the development between 1990 and the time of the study - has violence continued to decrease, or stagnated, or increased?

 

"We also acknowledge that the data is likely to be Eurocentric, with the possibility that many deaths incurred by conflicts in the developing world have not been included."

 

Finally, the study is from 2020. GRRM in his blog post specifically refers to the impact 2023 had on him.

 

18 minutes ago, MaxMovieMan said:

Did we read the same blogpost? He has a whole section speaking of how the internet has turned toxic and how many of his fellow writers are gone.

 

Neither is a claim that things are worse than ever. The internet hasn't been around for more than a few decades. The writers whose deaths he laments had only been here for a few decades, too. And neither has GRRM. He's not even saying that they are worse than they have ever been during his lifetime. All he's saying is that things seem worse than they have for… a while?

[Glóin the Dark 1,220]

1 hour ago, Marian Schedenig said:

I'm not sure what supposed facts you refer to; I don't even know where one would find overall statistics like that, or how to objectively measure them in the first place.

I remember Steven Pinker causing some mild controversy about a decade ago with his thesis about humanity having become significantly less violent over the last few thousand years (I think he published a book on the subject). He claimed that, despite the events of the 20th Century, a random person then was less likely to die violently at the hands of another person than someone from any previous century going back quite some time. (Of course, he wasn’t saying that trend was sure to continue, or that everything was now fine, or that we should stop complaining about current problems because we’ve never had it so good.)

 

 

1 hour ago, MaxMovieMan said:

Here’s one statistic of many show My how crime and violence have gone down in the last 30 years.

Is this in the article linked to? I haven’t read the whole thing, but the introduction implies it is about “battle” deaths, with no reference to crime. And, obviously, as far as battles are concerned it may be somewhat out of date.

 

 

1 hour ago, MaxMovieMan said:

Did we read the same blogpost? He has a whole section speaking of how the internet has turned toxic and how many of his fellow writers are gone.

That seems a different topic than the one that you were primarily arguing against. I’m sure we can readily agree that he is correct about more of his fellow writers being dead now than a year ago, and I thought the part about internet toxicity was where you agreed with him (maybe I misunderstood you on that point).

 

Could you quote (or, if it’s not permissible to quote, indicate specifically) a part of his blogpost where he implies that we’re living in the worst state we’ve ever been in, as you put it?

[MaxMovieMan 269]

4 hours ago, Glóin the Dark said:

Is this in the article linked to? I haven’t read the whole thing, but the introduction implies it is about “battle” deaths, with no reference to crime. And, obviously, as far as battles are concerned it may be somewhat out of date.

Well what George was talking about concerned wars and battles so that’s why I linked said article. I shouldn’t have said crime just meant the violence part. Carried away on the keyboard.

 

4 hours ago, Glóin the Dark said:

That seems a different topic than the one that you were primarily arguing against. I’m sure we can readily agree that he is correct about more of his fellow writers being dead now than a year ago, and I thought the part about internet toxicity was where you agreed with him (maybe I misunderstood you on that point).

 

It’s more of the fact that he feels as though him and his fellow writers will be forgotten which I kinda lumped into what we have now being now as good and forgetting the great past George was apart of.

 

“I know I have forgotten people in the list above, and maybe that is the destiny that awaits all of us… to be forgotten.”

 

I do agree with him about the internet but I was responding to this:

 

6 hours ago, Marian Schedenig said:

Nowhere does he say that things are worse than they ever were.

He was saying that internet discourse is the worst it’s been so the same sentiment applies. He has other statements that imply everything is the worst which I will provide below.

 

4 hours ago, Glóin the Dark said:

Could you quote (or, if it’s not permissible to quote, indicate specifically) a part of his blogpost where he implies that we’re living in the worst state we’ve ever been in, as you put it

 

“In years past, I would often do a Not A Blog post on or about New Year’s, looking back over the year that was ending and ahead to the year to come. This year, though, as I reflected on the year we had just lived through, I found I had no appetite for living through any of that again.“

 

“It is hard to escape the feeling that we are living in the Weimar Republic.“

 

“The era of rational discourse seems to have ended.” (He says this about the election and his impact on voters)

 

He also complains about a myriad of other things and his language definitely implies that those things are the worst they’ve been. I don’t want to paste the entire blog at this point. But he literally compares what I’m assuming is the US to Nazi Germany. If that’s not saying it’s the worst it’s ever been I don’t know what is.

[Glóin the Dark 1,220]

7 hours ago, MaxMovieMan said:

“In years past, I would often do a Not A Blog post on or about New Year’s, looking back over the year that was ending and ahead to the year to come. This year, though, as I reflected on the year we had just lived through, I found I had no appetite for living through any of that again.“

 

“It is hard to escape the feeling that we are living in the Weimar Republic.“

 

“The era of rational discourse seems to have ended.”

 

Okay, thanks for providing the quotes. But these patently fail to support your contention about Martin's claims. Fair enough, one could conclude that he's saying the state of discourse is at an all time low, but you can't rightly graft that specific sentiment on to different parts of his post just because they're in the same post.

 

In the first quoted paragraph he certainly conveys the opinion that 2023 was a bad year, but not that it's the all-time worst for humanity. Any implicit comparison to other years is limited to the period during which he's been writing end-of-year round-ups on his blog - and, even then, he only says that his appetite for doing so is at an all-time low, and proceeds to explain how that is influenced by many things, personal and otherwise.

 

Of course he's lamenting that things in the world are in a terrible state, but you'd be hard pressed to refute that. Circumstances don't have to be maximally bad before it becomes justifiable to be angry or dismayed about them, or to express such thoughts.

 

 

7 hours ago, MaxMovieMan said:

...he literally compares what I’m assuming is the US to Nazi Germany. If that’s not saying it’s the worst it’s ever been I don’t know what is.

 

The only reference to Germany that I can find is to the Weimar Republic so, unless I've missed something, he's not comparing anything to Nazi Germany.

[GerateWohl 4,343]

4 hours ago, Glóin the Dark said:

The only reference to Germany that I can find is to the Weimar Republic so, unless I've missed something, he's not comparing anything to Nazi Germany.

But you know that Hitler and the Nazis already existed in the Weimar Republic and that they played a political role and there were riots induced by them and they prepared the takeover of the government, right?

[Glóin the Dark 1,220]

Indeed.

[Jay 37,322]

HBO's 'Game Of Thrones' Jon Snow Spin-Off Has Been Shelved

[Glóin the Dark 1,220]

Pity it’s been shelved rather than put on ice.

[Pellaeon 593]

“In development, you look at every angle, and you see whether it’s worth it. And currently, it’s not. Currently, it’s off the table, because we all couldn’t find the right story to tell that we were all excited about enough. So, we decided to lay down tools with it for the time being. There may be a time in the future where we return to it, but at the moment, no. It’s firmly on the shelf.”

 

Makes sense. One by one, spinoffs are being canceled if they don’t have GRM source material to work from. Reading between the lines, here, it sounds like the Jon Snow series would have mined the later ASoIaF books—and may yet, if they ever materialize.