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Game of Thrones

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I can definitely relate, Richard. I was having massive difficulty remembering who was who at first.

I can understand that. Especially with a story that takes place in a fantasy world, with names like Daenerys, Viserys, Baratheon and stuff (although there are a lot more common names than some fantasies (Ned, Jon, Jaime, Bob...))

Well the information overload is nearly as acute in the novel as it is in the series. The appendix with the major noble houses and their retainers and list of other characters at the end of the book comes real handy many many times during the reading. :)

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Wow ! Didn't know there were that many types of toilets ! Impressive.

Unrelated : The Art Of The Title Sequence

And...

Episode 5 - The Wolf And The Lion preview :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKxOe8sspKM

Things are starting to get messy ! If Data doesn't start loving the show with this episode, then he should no longer be allowed to stay on this thread. Just sayin'.

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Episode 4 done !

You can feel with this episode that things are starting to get in motion.

As with the last episode, the King's Landing storyline was the most interesting, with Ned's investigation surrounding Jon Arryn's death, Littlefinger telling Sansa about The Moutain and The Hound story, and the tournament.

Meanwhile, back at The Wall, we learn more about Jon's past, a Samwise wannabe makes his appearance, and Jon's direwolf is finally back (that's a shame he doesn't appear more, though). Time to get beyond the Wall !

The Dothraki storyline was more interesting in this episode, thanks to Viserys' scenes, where we learn more about the mythology of this world, and particularly about dragons. And he gets his ass-kicked, once again !

I like the fact that we get a different look for each of the storyline (with the Dothrakis, at King's Landing, at the Wall, and at Winterfell)

Tyrion was great in this episode, yet again..

Loved the ending. Well done, Cat !

Can't wait to see episode 5.

It's time for the big duel !

P.S. Where the fuck is Syrio ?

P.P.S. : That Hodor dude is hilarious !

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Another great episode. Things really start to happen at this point! Midway through the season and about 5 hours to go. I can imagine how things start escalating from this point onward with a rapid pace. Excellent acting all around, Mark Addy's Robert Baratheon all bluster and on the other hand brooding melancholy, Lena Heady's Cersei cool and almost detached, feelings behind a mask of indifference. The scene with the king and queen was espcially intense, somehow reminded me of The Lion in Winter in its bittersweet feel. Sean Bean continues to provide the moral center of the series, his portrayal excellent in all aspects. Conleth Hill is spot on in his role as the slimy and courteous eunuch spy master lord Varys.

I can't wait for the next week's episode!!!

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Are you even watching the show, LeBlanc ? ;)

Episode 5 : done ! This is going better and better.

Lots of great moments here :

- The Mountain unleashed ! That guy is insane ! What did the horse do to him ?

- The Mountain Vs The Hound

- Tyrion unleashed ! Don't ever give this guy a shield !

- Dragon skulls !

- Varys and Littlefinger scene.

- Ned and Robert scene : "Do you think it's honor that's keeping them in peace. It's fear ! Fear and blood !"

- Lysa Tully and her son... That was... :pukeface:

- Robert and Cirsei scene: probably the highlight of the episode. Great acting there.

- And, of course...

Stark Vs Lannister. Joris death was brutal !

Best episode to date !

Djawadi's score really shines here, especially in the last scene. The music in this scene was brilliant, with the theme for the Starks and the one for the Lannisters clashing into some sort of a crazy waltz with choir ! Djawadi really outdone himself, and I expected no less from him.

I'll leave you with Episode 6 - A Golden Throne preview :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OU7VpQYd_yg

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No, but I've been downloading every episode and plan to watch as soon as I have time to

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That was easily the best episode, lots of feature films can't compete with this show.

@BloodBoal

The score was good but in no way great. I couldn't make out a Lannister theme in all these episodes and in this last scene there

only was underscore and a nice action motif overlayed.

So i can safely say no Stark/Winterfell theme appeared in the last scene (but it appears in the episode during Bran's scene with Maester Luwin) and to date i think there doesn't even exist a Lannister theme.

Could you post a scene or timings where the Lannister theme you identified is played?

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Just finished the second episode. It's getting interesting, but it would be so much better if it stopped with the pointless and gratuitous titilation and concentrated instead on moving the story forward in ways which do not involve tits and arse.

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@BloodBoal

The score was good but in no way great. I couldn't make out a Lannister theme in all these episodes and in this last scene there

only was underscore and a nice action motif overlayed.

So i can safely say no Stark/Winterfell theme appeared in the last scene (but it appears in the episode during Bran's scene with Maester Luwin) and to date i think there doesn't even exist a Lannister theme.

:lol:

That was a joke ! So don't worry, you're not going mad (and neither am I), there is no Lannister theme. I thought the score for that scene was such a wasted opportunity, so I turned in "What-I-want-to-hear" mode. You should try sometime. Trust me : the music is better that way.;)

it would be so much better if it stopped with the pointless and gratuitous titilation and concentrated instead on moving the story forward in ways which do not involve tits and arse.

Daenerys' storyline, huh ?

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That was a joke ! So don't worry, you're not going mad (and neither am I), there is no Lannister theme. I thought the score for that scene was such a wasted opportunity, so I turned in "What-I-want-to-hear" mode. You should try sometime. Trust me : the music is better that way.;)

Ah, ok well i think trying it with the what i want to hear mode would make me only depressed. I'm rather a big optimist :)

Just finished the second episode. It's getting interesting, but it would be so much better if it stopped with the pointless and gratuitous titilation and concentrated instead on moving the story forward in ways which do not involve tits and arse.

It is just very faithful to the books. You probably won't believe it but HBO still cut out some tits and arses, the books are even more intense. And the

story is largely independent from these things. Only in Daenerys storyline the sex with the Khal is a major plot point

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it would be so much better if it stopped with the pointless and gratuitous titillation and concentrated instead on moving the story forward in ways which do not involve tits and arse.

Daenerys' storyline, huh ?

Not that alone. The first episode wasted much time on the same sort of juvenile boobage fair which the latest spate of medieval serials seem to be obsessed with. A few years ago I'd have been goggling like a 13 year old sat in front of an episode of Baywatch, but I'm a little bit older than that now and would much rather they just got on with the plot.

I get the impression it starts how it means to go on, in that regard?

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The first episode was definitely the most guilty of that...the others have downplayed it somewhat. In any case, though, I agree...it feels kind of unnecessary. Gratuitous, I guess.

I'm also having an increasingly difficult time following the various plots. I felt like my comprehension was increasing in the first few episodes, but now I'm getting lost. Too many similar faces, names, alliances, backstories, and whatnot. It'd be a good thing if I understood it all, but I'm starting to lose patience with it.

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Yeah, I guess I can finally sympathise with all those poor buggers who hadn't read LotR before seeing the movie.

It is just very faithful to the books... Daenerys storyline the sex with the Khal is a major plot point

I can appreciate that. It's just the tone and handling of those sequences scream prime-time titillation, to me.

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Don't worry, there are less sex scenes in the following episodes (from what I recall), and the plot moves faster with each episode. I agree that most of them are pretty useless, but there are a few that have a reason to be there (I'm thinking of Tyrion's introduction, which helps define the characterin just a few seconds).

I'm also having an increasingly difficult time following the various plots. I felt like my comprehension was increasing in the first few episodes, but now I'm getting lost. Too many similar faces, names, alliances, backstories, and whatnot. It'd be a good thing if I understood it all, but I'm starting to lose patience with it.

Come one, Data! You've seen worst than that, haven't you ? ;)

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it would be so much better if it stopped with the pointless and gratuitous titillation and concentrated instead on moving the story forward in ways which do not involve tits and arse.

Daenerys' storyline, huh ?

Not that alone. The first episode wasted much time on the same sort of juvenile boobage fair which the latest spate of medieval serials seem to be obsessed with. A few years ago I'd have been goggling like a 13 year old sat in front of an episode of Baywatch, but I'm a little bit older than that now and would much rather they just got on with the plot.

I get the impression it starts how it means to go on, in that regard?

The first episodes are heavier in exposition and storywise heavier on boobs in at least Daenerys case. Then it scales back. You will still see sex, boobage, etc in later episodes but not in that quantities.

Starting with episode four most of the exposition is dealt with, most characters are clear and explained and the story starts going. And it starts going fast. It's like a rollercoaster ride. You reach the top within episode 4 and then you race down with no breaks and no idea what comes next. The shit keeps hitting you right in your suprised face so to speak.

The drama is overwhelming, the shockers are huge, there is action around every corner and you will get hooked. You will want to read the books after the season finishes, cause a one year

wait after these cliffhangers is truly painful, trust me. The greatest thing is the books keep getting better and better, crazier and crazier till the absolute melting point in Book 3.

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Yeah, I guess I can finally sympathise with all those poor buggers who hadn't read LotR before seeing the movie.

I was one of them...and I can't decide whether the films or the books were more confusing to me. I suppose the books deepened my knowledge of that world, but there was SOOOOOO much that I could not follow, nor did I really want to. Tolkien gets an A+ for developing a whole universe, but he gets an F for making it dull and incomprehensible. Reading those three books is a chore to which I never intend to submit myself again.

This is still illuminating the genius of LOST for me. When you're dealing with a huge ensemble cast with a lot of diverse backstories and everything, it really pays off to give each character something immediately identifiable and unique (e.g. obesity, pregnancy, being black, being an abrasive redneck, etc.). Obviously, this show couldn't take quite the same route, and I'm sure they're being constrained somewhat by the source material, but there are so many scenes when I have no idea who they're talking about, or I'm wondering if the character I'm looking at is someone I've seen before or not.

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I probably sound like a square here, but believe me, I'm not.

Just get on with the bloody story and leave the shaggin' to the internet, please!

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Yeah, I mean, I like boobies as much as the next guy, but I agree that something about the tone just feels like cheap titillation.

Ooh ooh, I know what they should do! Cut out all the sex scenes and replace them with five-minute recaps of who all the characters are, what they look like, what their names are, where they are, what they're trying to do, who they like, who they hate, and so forth. :lol:

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There are no pictures! :P Most of those names have absolutely no meaning to me. EDIT: And I don't really want to spend a whole bunch of time researching this show just to get a basic understanding of who's who. Part of the show's job is to communicate that, and it's not doing a good job of that, from my perspective.

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There are no pictures! :P Most of those names have absolutely no meaning to me. EDIT: And I don't really want to spend a whole bunch of time researching this show just to get a basic understanding of who's who. Part of the show's job is to communicate that, and it's not doing a good job of that, from my perspective.

Ok, here is HBO's viewer guide. They did it to make non book readers the life easier. This time with pictures :)

http://viewers-guide.hbo.com/game-of-thrones/

Here for example is House Stark with character pictures: http://viewers-guide.hbo.com/game-of-thrones/#!/guide/houses/stark/

To be fair, the books have a ridiculous amount of characters who all are important (some only in later books) so they couldn't just cut these characters

to make it easier for new viewers. But trust me, this level of complexity pays of big time in later episodes and seasons!!!

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And to be honest i really think this is a great guide for new viewers. There are all houses in there, the locations of their castles and cities and all the character pictures with a short description of each character if you click on it.

The effort HBO put into this show is really astonishing. I can't remember any TV show where you could get such a high class viewer guide (even with a detailled map of the fantasy world)

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Click on a House, you see all the characters who belong and are sworn to this house. Or click on a location, like the Eyrie or Winterfell. You see a description of the place and then the house it belongs to. Then click on the house (in that cases House Arryn or House Stark). Then you see the characters of this house.

Not really that confusing ;). Don't be lazy

Just get information on the characters you like most or you really didn't understand while you watched the episodes...

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I already did, but there's no way I'm going to remember all this. :P

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Try studying the evolution of cephalopods and the complain.

I didn't get past episode 2, I'm still holding for the book when I have time.

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There are no pictures! :P Most of those names have absolutely no meaning to me. EDIT: And I don't really want to spend a whole bunch of time researching this show just to get a basic understanding of who's who. Part of the show's job is to communicate that, and it's not doing a good job of that, from my perspective.

Ok, here is HBO's viewer guide. They did it to make non book readers the life easier. This time with pictures :)

http://viewers-guide.hbo.com/game-of-thrones/

Here for example is House Stark with character pictures: http://viewers-guide.hbo.com/game-of-thrones/#!/guide/houses/stark/

To be fair, the books have a ridiculous amount of characters who all are important (some only in later books) so they couldn't just cut these characters

to make it easier for new viewers. But trust me, this level of complexity pays of big time in later episodes and seasons!!!

Thanks for the links. Interesting stuff.

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In the defence of George Martin I have say that he wrote the first book in the mid-90's and had no idea it would be turned into a TV series. The book has sex and violence for a completely different reason than making the main readerbase (young adult men) happy. His instinct was to write something different in the medieval fantasy setting, more gritty and more realistic and less the knightly romance most fantasy novels is bursting with. His world is warts-and-all story of medieval life and power, not romaticized but how it most likely was in our Middle Ages. The society was heavily class based and feudal and the king was truly the king and peasants knew their place in the order of things. Martin's novel presents a lot of sex, nudity and violence and as others have said in this thread, the show actually has downplayed that aspect. This is not to say Martin's novels are full of orgies though. But it is a gritty and real world in a sense, not wrapped in a comforting rosy hues of ideas of knights in shining armor on their way to rescues the damsel in distress all pure and valorous. It is not black and white but has infinite shades of grey which is fantastic.

To those who have watched the prime time dramas from HBO and other networks this nudity and sex have become gratuitous as it is so commonplace it becomes a trope, something networks do to get rating from certain demographic or they think some viewers expect it. I agree that e.g. in the HBO series Rome it felt redundant (a bit demeaning) to see the main cast cavorting in bed in nearly every episode for no other reason than to show how immoral the Ancient Romans were. It is the mark of the times really, that you have to show all and everything. I do not like this too much myself either if it does not serve the story in some way. And I do not deny that some of the need for HBO to show nudity in Game of Thrones comes from expectation and somewhat of the modern need to peep at such things at every opporturnity but on the other hand most of this material is present in the original novel, but Martin does not wallow in it, it is just part of the story where people use different things to have power and keep it and how power is abused in different ways.

And all those who have not read the novels I have to say that Martin thought the character centric episodes first (so don't go praising Lost too early for that invention). :P Every chapter in his book is dedicated to the point of view of a single character so we get into their heads more frequently and more intimately than in most novels. Every chapter is titled with the name of the character like Bran, Tyrion, Sansa, Arya or Eddard and then the events are told from that aspect and perception. It was definitely new and exciting way to tell the story when I first read these books. This also helps with the information overload that comes with the legion of characters and places etc. In the TV-series you have to be very observant and follow it keenly so that you can keep up with everything. They do not tell you who is who in the series, making constant exclamations of everyone's name or rank or affiliation. They actually trust an intelligent viewer to find their way around this story but it can be difficult I admit. Also I think you should not be expected to leap to internet every once in a while to check up on the face and name of some character either. Perhaps the show has been rather merciless in some respects when the characters and their introductions are concerned. The series takes some things as given and does not explain them much which can leave a new viewer somewhat stranded. I think the best policy is to focus on the most recognizable characters and let the supporting cast be just that.

But again in my opinion you can tell quite easily who the main characters are after a couple of episodes. Of course I can't speak very authentically for those who have not read the book but as I have watched the show I can say that they make very clear who will be the focus of the story in the series from early on. And I like the idea that the show took time in the couple of the first episodes to build up the characters as it is what this show is all about. We get our bearing in the world, get to know the people a little before the real action starts (if you can stomach the few nude scenes here and there). It is a challenge to bring these people alive with all the psychological implications and twists and turns that the book can tell so much more easily in the inner thoughts of the characters but the show has succeeded exceedingly well. Patience will be rewarded after a few episodes as things get rolling.

As for a well built world like Martin's or Tolkien's there is always the danger of having too much information. We are all different and relish different things but I love the details in these two works, all the history, legend, places, characters etc. They give feel of depth and background and a solid backdrop in which these stories can happen. Tolkien for example does not explain the Elder Days in LotR to great detail but they and all the information about them, offer a backdrop to the current events of the novel however mythical they are. I know that some people are absolutely lost in this kind of information flood but others are more than happy with all the minutiae of the world. In the Game of Thrones series they present enormous amount of the background information very subtly in the sets, props etc. and not some long explanations from the characters which would be at most times awkward exposition. Of course this is more apparent to those who have read the novels but is the only way it can be implemented. This is very much what they did in the LotR films where a bigger amount of detail and effort went into the sets and the world they were building than could ever be captured by the camera or shown directly in the film yet it was there. The TV-series Rome is the same. A whole world of information about the day-to-day life of Ancient Rome during the last years of the Republic has been implemented into the sets and props etc. that is only subliminal to the viewer but to someone who knows what to look for it is a veritable catalogue of cultural detail that shows how deeply the makers of these series have cared for the story, be it that there is sex and violence and crude aspects to it.

Here is an interesting interview with G. Martin (new viewers beware: contains some spoilery footage from the show for those who have not watched it more than a few episodes):

Part I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAyG1BiArd4&feature=player_embedded#at=489

Part II

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4IrK7MkBYY&feature=player_embedded

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As I said, I appreciate the fact that the book is the source and that much of the eroticism stems from it; however that medium is subject to the reader's imagination and not the cheap designs of some sleazy producer who is clearly thinking about ratings - the proof of which is blatantly obvious when one just takes a look at the girls who are stripping: drop dead gorgeous with perfect bodies, lit just right by the crew. I mean, how is that realistic? It's unwanted gratuity.

This is a tough, gritty world, and I personally would prefer it if the necessary sex and nudity reflected that instead of being in stark contrast of it.

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As I said, I appreciate the fact that the book is the source and that much of the eroticism stems from it; however that medium is subject to the reader's imagination and not the cheap designs of some sleazy producer who is clearly thinking about ratings - the proof of which is blatantly obvious when one just takes a look at the girls who are stripping: drop dead gorgeous with perfect bodies, lit just right by the crew. I mean, how is that realistic? It's unwanted gratuity.

This is a tough, gritty world, and I personally would prefer it if the necessary sex and nudity reflected that instead of being in stark contrast of it.

I agree that there is a bit of gratuitous sex and nudity going on in the Game of Thrones. But can you get past those scenes and concentrate on the characters and plot?

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As I said, I appreciate the fact that the book is the source and that much of the eroticism stems from it; however that medium is subject to the reader's imagination and not the cheap designs of some sleazy producer who is clearly thinking about ratings - the proof of which is blatantly obvious when one just takes a look at the girls who are stripping: drop dead gorgeous with perfect bodies, lit just right by the crew. I mean, how is that realistic? It's unwanted gratuity.

This is a tough, gritty world, and I personally would prefer it if the necessary sex and nudity reflected that instead of being in stark contrast of it.

I agree that there is a bit of gratuitous sex and nudity going on in the Game of Thrones. But can you get past those scenes and concentrate on the characters and plot?

Of course and I am :)

I'm enjoying the show so far; I'm merely stating my initial criticisms of it.

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Incanus, you should really learn to develop your argument. Stop writing just 4 lines and expect us to understand your point of view !

Nonsense! I shant' cater to the bite size tastes of modern internet audience! I have Game of Thrones Thread commentary- The Novel underway! Wait until that to criticize. You have seen nothing yet!

On a side note I love how the action is handled in this. The violence is a threat ever lurking in the world of the series and drawing swords means real business in this, not jolly swashbuckling. Someone is probably going to die so it is not an idle matter. This creates a whole different sense of respect and edginess to the combat as life it literally at stake. The mere possibility of violence has you at the edge of your seat with tension.

Oh and I wish they would get Tywin Lannister into the series already! I want to see the iron cold snobbery of Charles Dance in this series!

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Incanus, you should really learn to develop your argument. Stop writing just 4 lines and expect us to understand your point of view !

Nonsense! I shant' cater to the bite size tastes of modern internet audience! I have Game of Thrones Thread commentary- The Novel underway! Wait until that to criticize. You have seen nothing yet!

Be sure I'll buy that when it's released ! Then I'll release "Game of Thrones Thread commentary - The Novel - The Companion Guide" !

On a side note I love how the action is handled in this. The violence is a threat ever lurking in the world of the series and drawing swords means real business in this, not jolly swashbuckling. Someone is probably going to die so it is not an idle matter. This creates a whole different sense of respect and edginess to the combat as life is literally at stake. The mere possibility of violence has you at the edge of your seat with tension.

Yeah, I love that too. Even horses aren't safe !

And that poor Joris. Damn you, Lannister !

And I like how the characters move during duels. At first, I thought it was odd, but thinking about it a second time over, it makes sense, given the size of the swords they're using. These are no Glamdrings !

Oh and I wish they would get Tywin Lannister into the series already! I want to see the iron cold snobbery of Charles Dance in this series!

There's going to be a guy named Tywin Lannister ? Data's going to be so pissed, he who has so much trouble remembering names ! There was Tyrion Lannister, now Tywin Lannister : his head's gonna explode ! ;)

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I am almost getting tired of saying this but it was another terrific episode. The events have a great drive at this point and I was so engrossed with the story and acting that the 50 odd minutes just seemed to fly by leaving me anxious for more. By the way the final scene is, shall we say, pure gold. ;)

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