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GAME OF THRONES


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I thought the 10th episode rescoring was very succesful. It felt a bit strong for the dialogue but the build-up works nicely and gives a very dramatic feel to the whole scene. Or is it melodramatic? Anyway good job!

I can't decide whether the Jaime/Eddard duel was better rescored before or now. Both have their good and bad points. Desplat's style even works for modern audiences with the ostinato. ;)

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Yeah, the music is not particularly fitting for Jon/Mormont dialogue (the first part of it, mainly). But I was a bit lazy and didn't want to edit the cue. :P

Anyway, not matter what people might think of the rescore, you can't argue with the fact that Djawadi's cue for the Night's Watch departure of the Wall is utterly bad. It sounds so cheap, it's not even funny. Let's all hope he's replaced for the second season. Or at least that he starts using an orchestra. You know, that thing that helps create what we call... What's the word ? Oh, yeah ! Music...

Regarding Jaime/Eddard duel, I too think both rescores have bad and good points (the first rescore, as davros previously said, is somehow too "big" for such a duel, and is heavily edited. As for the second one, like I said, the first part doesn't quite work and... well, it's Desplat, and since a lot of people here are not a fan of his works... ;) )

Djawadi sounds like a man out of his depth in this series (in a lot of other films as well). He thinks everything important has to be scored with drums and synth sounding violins. But most importantly drums. And his ambience for the Beyond the Wall (which opens the cue) is recognizable but not special in anyway. Damn noise makers.

Yeah let's hope he is replaced with someone who writes actual music.

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I actually quite like the ambient score of north of the Wall. I don't think complex orchestration from John Williams would be suitable. He'd make it too melodramatic.

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Yeah, Dagobah is a perfect example. Listen to how Williams underscores the creepy woods of Yoda's home and you get the idea - it's very luscious, very rich and interesting, very theatrical - perfect for Star Wars.

Utterly unsuitable for the dangerous alien environment of north of the Wall.

Weren't expecting that, were you Boaly boy? ;)

Now maybe this thread had got something proper to talk about...

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I think the Beyond the Wall "music" is more a sound effect with no change, just repetition, the exactly same mood slapped into another scene with no individual take on the material. Heck Giacchino spoiled me in TV music department with Lost as I now expect the music to be part of the story telling. It really is not a matter of complexity but about ability to dramatically convey ideas through music. This is on the things that makes the greatest of film composers in my mind. I agree that subtlety is paramount in the Prologue of GoT but in the words of George Lucas (I would have never thought I quote him for anything constructive) it is one thing to be subtle and other to be non-descript.

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I'd normally agree with you on this subject, but in this instance I think the ambient approach works terrifically; in an otherwise non-event score in general.

I don't necessarily agree though with the sentiment that all score should tell a story. Sometimes I think a vague sense of mood works better - especially if it can successfully create an air of uncertainty in the viewer.

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I would, if I had the skills, do a video of the Prologue of GoT using the music from Super 8. The alien motif is a good example of a short but malleable idea that can go through different permutations and still sound eerie, threathning, ghostly, contemplative, suspenceful, violent just about anything and with some modulation Giacchino creates a whole lot of ancillary versions for different purposes. I just watched the prologue and played some of the more suspenceful and scary music from Super 8 to it and boy the scene was dramatic and the music was saying something instead of just being there.

I was reading one of the novels a few days ago and Super 8 was playing in the background and the alien motif was playing for some scenes Beyond the Wall. It fit perfectly. It seems I am turning into a Giacchino fan.

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I don't at any point remember saying it was good music - because it most certainly is not. I did say I think it works well as score, though. There's a huge difference.

Other than the north of the Wall stuff and the main theme music, I think the score on the whole is pure garbage.

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The only times the score jumped at me as doing something for the good of the show were the ambiance beyond the wall, which merely works, the opening music and its variation in he second episode when Ed and Jon last met. And that's about it.

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You are talking good sense as a film music fan Bloodboal. Indeed the series would benefit from a good composer.

Sound design wise the White Walker/Beyond the Wall "music" works in the context of the series. It works on a basic level and of course Djawadi can come back to it if there is need for a reference to Beyond the Wall. There is eeriness but nothing you could refer without pulling out the whole sound design for a scene.

With the main title Djawadi was surprisingly deep despite it being in the comfort zone of epic ostinati, that he with his RCP peers helped to become the bread and butter of film composing these days. It at least suggests the underlying machinations of the series in its minimalistic repetition and offers a commentary on the main title map with its cogs and wheels.

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I would like the score to be neither Djawadi, nor traditionally orchestral. I'd like to hear some kind of source music-like approach. Or something more minimal (like Lost). We don't need broad scoring. Less is more in this case.

Karol

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I posted about the themes earlier in this thread. They are there of course and im baffled that you did not hear them considering we all are JW fans and should be used to identifying every little motif and theme.

Djawadis themes are average, functional and certainly not bad. Sadly they aren't developed a lot over the course of the season.

CAREFUL FOR SPOILERS

I'm quoting myself:

Folks, this is a (albeit feature like) TV show and for that the music is absolutely ok.

It even improved a bit in this episode and there appears to be a nice Winterfell / Stark theme which is far better than the Main theme

( for example most poignant at around 16:34 and at 52:11 in episode 2 and in another variation at 9:30 in episode 1 )

And i cant agree with Incanus here that Djawadi only supports the mood, because the Stark theme with its appearance starting at 16:34

enhanced the scene and made it better. As well the piece that accompanied the Jon and Ned goodbye scene

CAREFUL FOR SPOILERS

We have the Stark/Winterfell Theme, the Main Theme, two Themes for Daenerys, a Royal Theme (Used for the King's Arrival in episode 1, later used for Joffrey in his romantic scene with sansa and also in a darker version in the credits of episode 8), a Motif for the Dragons, a Birth of the Dragons Theme and the Stark Family Theme (used in Jon and Ned's goodbye, in the entering King's Landing scene and when Robb returns with a captive Jaime) and the Stark Children Motif (Bran climbing, Arya's training lessons with Syrio)

I would like the score to be neither Djawadi, nor orchestral. I'd like to hear some kind of source music-like approach. Or something more minimal (like Lost). We don't need broad scoring here. Less is more in this case.

I agree, to some extent. GoT story isn't fit for big epic music (most of it, at least. There are a few scenes that could benefit from that, though). But what I would really like are themes, motives, and good music. That's all.

You mentioned LOST. Yeah, LOST was minimal (well, at least the first seasons), but it was good music nonetheless, and there was a shitload of themes (Take Locke, for example. You've got: Good Locke theme, Bad Locke theme, Neutral Locke theme, Sideways Locke Theme, Bearded Locke theme, Shaved Locke Theme, etc...). With Djawadi, we've got bad minimal music, and we're still looking for themes... Where the fuck are they ?

Are these enough themes for you? ;)

Of course this show is fit for large epic music. Read all the books and you will understand! I only say

Blackwater, Red Wedding, Fist of the first Men, Yunkai, Astapor, Mereen, Stannis Arrival, ....

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I never said the show doesn't have themes. It's just the music sounds cheap, like a synth orchestral scores for video games from late 90's. Pity, because the show itself is staggering production-wise.

Karol

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLEbqP4l72c

I'm not sure if the first part works

It doesn't. Ugh, it completely fucks up the grim tone of the scene and turns Game of Thrones into Generic Hollywood Medieval Adventure 101.

I thought the 10th episode rescoring was very succesful. It felt a bit strong for the dialogue but the build-up works nicely and gives a very dramatic feel to the whole scene. Or is it melodramatic?

The latter. DEFINITELY the latter. Game of Thrones is NOT melodramatic. Lord give me strength...

But from 1'56 onwards, I think it is fitting.

It's better, yes. Pretty good in fact. It worked and I liked it.

And if anyone is interested, here is another rescore from a scene I previously already rescored. I think the first part worked better in the first rescore, but the second part (from 0'47 onwards) works better with the cue here (Spoilers for Episode 5) :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vk-MwNxAOPI

What the FUCK was that?! :pukeface:

All I can say is thank Christ you weren't in charge! The tone was just wrong wrong wrong! OTT is an understatement! You must be watching a different show to me because I like Game of Thrones because it feels NOTHING like First Knight or Dragonheart. You made it feel like I was watching Dragonheart. I showed it to my girlfriend and her face agreed.

Sorry for the harsh feedback fella, but you asked for my opinion. I'm just being honest. Albeit brutally so, because you deserve it!

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I would like the score to be neither Djawadi, nor traditionally orchestral. I'd like to hear some kind of source music-like approach. Or something more minimal (like Lost). We don't need broad scoring. Less is more in this case.

Karol

I would prefer there was diegetic music, providing original music for the different cultures of the novels but not in the style of Jeff Beal's Rome where there was nothing but exotic instruments and not an ounce of drama in the whole score. And I would love this series have dramatic underscore that is, you know, dramatic. Not over the top but thematic and strong, supporting the storytelling. Lost is a perfect example of this. The music had a signature sound, could be dramatic and emotional when needed but also wove perfectly with dialogue and subtle drama. As it stands Djawadi's score is purely functional to me. It is the weak link in the otherwise exceedingly strong production.

I posted about the themes earlier in this thread. They are there of course and im baffled that you did not hear them considering we all are JW fans and should be used to identifying every little motif and theme.

Djawadi's themes average, functional and certainly not bad. Sadly they aren't developed a lot over the course of the season.

CAREFUL FOR SPOILERS

I'm quoting myself:

Folks, this is a (albeit feature like) TV show and for that the music is absolutely ok.

It even improved a bit in this episode and there appears to be a nice Winterfell / Stark theme which is far better than the Main theme

( for example most poignant at around 16:34 and at 52:11 in episode 2 and in another variation at 9:30 in episode 1 )

And i cant agree with Incanus here that Djawadi only supports the mood, because the Stark theme with its appearance starting at 16:34

enhanced the scene and made it better. As well the piece that accompanied the Jon and Ned goodbye scene

CAREFUL FOR SPOILERS

We have the Stark/Winterfell Theme, the Main Theme, two Themes for Daenerys, a Royal Theme (Used for the King's Arrival in episode 1, later used for Joffrey in his romantic scene with sansa and also in a darker version in the credits of episode 8), a Motif for the Dragons, a Birth of the Dragons Theme and the Stark Family Theme (used in Jon and Ned's goodbye, in the entering King's Landing scene and when Robb returns with a captive Jaime) and the Stark Children Motif (Bran climbing, Arya's training lessons with Syrio)

Of course this show is fit for large epic music. Read all the books and you will understand! I only say

Blackwater, Red Wedding, Fist of the first Men, Yunkai, Astapor, Mereen, Stannis Arrival, ....

I still think that despite Djawadi's thematic constructs, be there 1 or 100, the majority of the music is to my mind bland and purely functional. If I listen to the score on CD I can surely spot a few of the motifs you mention but I usually lose interest halfway through the album because the "music" is so non-descript. I do not, even after having seen the series and know the scenes they underscore, relate to the music in a strong way. It is not about the amount of themes but how you use them and how they capture the essence of the key ideas. For me this RCP composer noodles in subtlety and ambience so much there is no meat in the music, no drama, no life, just collection of drums, half hearted (I am sure Djawadi tried his best) attempts at action and dramatic scoring that fall short in my ears.

I am not saying that this series should be scored in the robust or near melodramatic fashion as The First Knight or Lion in Winter. Not every Medieval fantasy saga needs roaring choruses chanting in forgotten and invented languages nor brass chorales that shake the roof with their power. Those scores have their place of course. But much of this story in GoT is about characters and character moments dominate the story telling of the series so the music should focus on them, most dialogue requiring only subtle scoring but as I said it is one thing to be subtle and another to be non-descript. And why is strong scoring in ban these days? Why is music a shackled partner when it could be the wings on which a film or series could rise to greater lyrical and dramatic heights.

Compare the score of old Lion in Winter and the new. Barry's score is melodramatic, exclamatory from the start, draws attention to itself and has clear striking themes when the new one by Richard Heartley is very subtle, more a collection of diegetic music of the period, very subtle dramatic underscore that rises few times to louder heights, themes being subtle to a fault. The film itself is a good comparison for GoT since it is about monarch and his wife and children, about scheming, politics and power, all central to GoT as well, characters of paramount importance. Both scores work but in a different way. Barry's score is the one people will remember, being loud and proud. He is scoring the people is an extroverted dramatic way, much the style of the times in 1960's but sincerely trying to show their core through music. He also uses Gregorian chant as an inspiration but again forges his own sound out of it. Heartley in 2000's is using the Medieval ambience and subtle musical nods to enhance the mood and direction of the scenes, only a few times resorting to greater orchestral presence to make an impact. Heartley does a competent job but his music is nearly faceless, Barry's score is a force unto itself, a presence, another character. It does not try to be loud to fanfare the composer's own glory and skill by drawing attention to itself but an equal partner in the film where it has a role to play. This I would love the music of GoT to be.

I am completely fine with people liking the music Djawadi composed. I don't have to like it and am vociferous in saying so because I do have a passion for film music and happen to love these novels and would like them to be treated with respect.

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I completely bought most of those visual effects, never even stopping to think about them except to marvel at the beauty of the landscapes or the impressive architecture, which I think is the highest compliment you can pay to the special effects. I really have to give kudos to the team for creating such convincing digital backdrops and set extensions.

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Finally started reading the damn book. I'm on page 2 right now. So far, so good. Hope it gets better, though, because nothing much happened. If by the fifth page, there is no big event, I think I'll read another book.

:lol:

ADHD generation. Books are for slow people. Just words on a page, no pictures, sound effects or music. No super fast cuts every 30 seconds to keep attention up. Bloody static thing. You have to shake the novel in your hands to keep it interesting and then the words move as well.

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Finally started reading the damn book. I'm on page 2 right now. So far, so good. Hope it gets better, though, because nothing much happened. If by the fifth page, there is no big event, I think I'll read another book.

:lol:

ADHD generation. Books are for slow people. Just words on a page, no pictures, sound effects or music. No super fast cuts every 30 seconds to keep attention up. Bloody static thing. You have to shake the novel in your hands to keep it interesting and then the words move as well.

30 seconds? That's like an eternity!

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While reading these novels again and since I have watched the show, it dawned on me how extremely small even the biggest effect problems will seem in comparison with the (hopefully) following seasons. Everything will get bigger. The events happening in the novels will demand either bigger budget for effects or ingenuiety in depicting the action so that they don't have to show everything. Anyway it is going to be an awesome future if they can pull this off in style and with grace.

So Bloodboal, now that you have perhaps read those 5 pages, is the plot starting to thicken do you think? Have you gotten the full spectrum of nuances and plot points thusfar? How about the characrers? Do you think them to be too transient maybe? Chopped liver? Mince meat? Cold cuts?

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So Bloodboal, now that you have perhaps read those 5 pages, is the plot starting to thicken do you think? Have you gotten the full spectrum of nuances and plot points thusfar? How about the characters? Do you think them to be too transient maybe? Chopped liver? Mince meat? Cold cuts?

Yeah, I think I've got a better understanding of the characters. It's easy to categorize them, really. You've got the bastards (basically the Stark family), the good guys (the Lannisters), the ones that keep on riding (you got it: the Dothrakis, man!) the characters you don't care about (Guard #1, Gatekeeper #3 and probably Dothraki #7. Never liked that one) and the Others (no, not the Others, the others Others).

And, on other news: Theon Greyjoy's sister have been casted (and renamed, by the way)

The Lannisters are "good guys" at your point in the series?

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Were you being serious or not?

I ask because at my point in the story the Lannisters are very clearly "the bad guys" and the Starks are quite clearly drawn as the "good guys".

So for you to say the families' roles are essentially "flipped" later in the series is shall we say, a monumental spoiler for those who are only as far into it as Game of Thrones - those who on the whole are already extremely careful and selective as to where they click their cursor on the internet, where Game of Thrones is concerned.

Clarification please.

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I did read your posts actually dickhead (I always do - you are one of the chosen few), but I'm not to know about your reading habits, am I? Best not to make jokey posts about the plot in the future I'd say. I always read this thread because I see it as 'safe'.

Look, I take things like this ridiculously seriously in my sad little life and when I fall in love with a movie or a show I fall hard. Please just continue to bear that in mind, thank you.

As you can see for yourself - I'm actually really lighthearted in all the other threads, just not this one ;)

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It's a good book btw. A real page-turner. And I'm not really a fantasy reader at all. The show is a very close adaptation so far. Pity that one of the best lines is not in the book though.

I would have read it all by now, but I have other things happening as well, so I can't devote my whole attention to it. It's 800 pages after all! Doesn't feel like it though.

The thing is I don't know exactly how good is it. I watched the show and it's very much the same. But to know how it works on its own I'll have to read the second one. Which I probably will do immediately after finishing this one. If the time permits, of course.

Karol

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I just finished the 3rd novel and am reading the 4th. Wow these characters have come a long way. The appendix at the end of the book comes quite handy at times with all the minor characters coming and going. Martin has quite a lot of twists coming up in this story, to put it mildly. I had a few revelations (or reminders) along the way since I had forgotten some major plot points since my first read. Which is kind of great as you get to be surprised all over again. This is one of the strengths of the writing, the width and depth, that opens up the entire world to you. It will present perhaps problems with adaptation in the future but in the novel it adds such a feel of layers, both of story and cultural/historical/social.

And yes these novels are addictive. Not only do I devour them pretty quickly even though they get longer with each novel but I have many times wanted to leaf on to the next chapter of my favourite character to see what will happen to him/her. :)

See Lee, no spoilers! I am getting a hang of this!

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I'm on page 100 now, which is roughly the equivalent of the first episode. I think Martin did a pretty good job at adapting the series material in a self-contained 800-pages book. There are a few scenes that feel a bit cheap, though. Maybe the budget for the book wasn't as important as the one for the series ? Who knows ? Martin also tries to add a few scenes that were not in the series, but I'm not sure if it really works.

I'm referring to the line when

Tyrion Lannister confesses his crimes. Well, actually a monologue.

;)

Karol - who just finished the book

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