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28 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

 

We only tarred and feathered them!

 

Shaved their heads too I believe. 

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I just realized that this episode, I guess, officially writes off Ellaria Sand?  Last we saw her, she was a prisoner of Cersei, stuck in a jail cell in the red keep.  I suppose she was crushed by rubble.  I find it unlikely they'll dig her out next week and send her back to Dorne or whatever

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Your messages four minutes apart didn't combine, Jay! 

 

Okay, I must have been in limbo, for I didn't have Lee's response in between. 

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9 minutes ago, Jay said:

I just realized that this episode, I guess, officially writes off Ellaria Sand?  Last we saw her, she was a prisoner of Cersei, stuck in a jail cell in the red keep.  I suppose she was crushed by rubble.  I find it unlikely they'll dig her out next week and send her back to Dorne or whatever

 

Her story is over. Dorne played its part. 

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9 minutes ago, Jay said:

Who here will watch this?

 

moim6cztp5y21.jpg

 

I will! Probably not at 2am when it airs but I will watch it! I love BTS stuff.

 

18 minutes ago, Jay said:

I just realized that this episode, I guess, officially writes off Ellaria Sand?  Last we saw her, she was a prisoner of Cersei, stuck in a jail cell in the red keep.  I suppose she was crushed by rubble.  I find it unlikely they'll dig her out next week and send her back to Dorne or whatever

 

The last we saw her she had been poised with a slow acting toxin. I’d say it’s safe to assume she was dead by the time Dany attacker’s Kings Landing.

 

Edit: that was her daughter.

 

I guess she was just left to starve to death as her daughter died in front of her. I remember thinking at the time that that was probably the last we’d see of her anyway.

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15 minutes ago, xWxzek said:

Her story is over. Dorne played its part. 

 

If they were just gonna have her die in Daenerys' attack this week without even bringing the actress back for a reaction shot, they should have just killed her last season

 

8 minutes ago, Bilbo said:

The last we saw her she had been poised when a slow acting toxin. I’d say it’s safe to assume she was dead by the time Dany attacker’s Kings Landing 

 

The way I remember it, Cersei had Ellaria and the last remaining Sand Snake daughter alive in the same cell, and she poisoned the daughter, with Ellaria having to watch as the daughter slowly died in front of her, unable to help her, and then have to suffer more as she watched the daughter's body slowly rot.  it was all to basically show how cruel Cersei had become.

 

I do not remember Ellaria herself ever getting poisoned.

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11 minutes ago, Jay said:

 

If they were just gonna have her die in Daenerys' attack this week without even bringing the actress back for a reaction shot, they should have just killed her last season

 

The way I remember it, Cersei had Ellaria and the last remaining Sand Snake daughter alive in the same cell, and she poisoned the daughter, with Ellaria having to watch as the daughter slowly died in front of her, unable to help her, and then have to suffer more as she watched the daughter's body slowly rot.  it was all to basically show how cruel Cersei had become.

 

I do not remember Ellaria herself ever getting poisoned.

 

This is all true, but why re-introduce a character two seasons later only to show her die? I'm pretty sure that D&D implied that Ellaria died in her cell without being checked on. We know that Cersei is evil. Reinforcing it now was redundant. 

 

It would be nice if this last season was the farewell tour for all minor leftover characters, like Meryn Trant and Hot Pie. 

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Haha, I don't think we'll see Hot Pie again.

 

Holko is right, Edmure Tully and Meera and Howland Reed are way more important to check in with.

 

Actually, I guess Howland Reed is irrelevant now (he was with Ned Stark when he took Aegon/Jon out of the Tower of Joy and returned to Winterfell so knew the truth about Jon's parentage the entire time), since half of Westeros seems to know his parentage, especially if Varys got some letters out before the one we saw him burn.  

 

There are secondary chatacter's we've seen this season that I can't even tell if we'll see next week or not: Sam/Gilly, Brienne, Bronn, Gendry, Yara... lots to cover in 80 minutes beyond the Jon/Dany/Arya/Tyrion situation at King's Landing and whatever's up with Sansa in Winterfell

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27 minutes ago, Jay said:

 

If they were just gonna have her die in Daenerys' attack this week without even bringing the actress back for a reaction shot, they should have just killed her last season

 

 

The way I remember it, Cersei had Ellaria and the last remaining Sand Snake daughter alive in the same cell, and she poisoned the daughter, with Ellaria having to watch as the daughter slowly died in front of her, unable to help her, and then have to suffer more as she watched the daughter's body slowly rot.  it was all to basically show how cruel Cersei had become.

 

I do not remember Ellaria herself ever getting poisoned.

 

I had edited my post before you replied 

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12 minutes ago, Jay said:

lots to cover in 80 minutes

 

What's left to cover? Dany dies, someone gets put on the Iron Throne, everyone who's alive comes to Kings Landing for the coronation.

 

45 minutes is all they really need. Bloated crap!

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That's funny, Quintus, but obviously the descent of the show has been far more gradual than that. While I think season 7 was overall better than season 8 has been, it was also by far the weakest season up to that point, and it has more in common quality-wise with season 8 than season 1. Still, I guess it didn't actively disappoint me as much as this season has (after episode 2, which again I say was wonderful).

 

Yavar

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19 minutes ago, Jay said:

...Meera and Howland Reed are way more important to check in with.

 

Meera's departure in The Spoils of War was supposed to be permanent.

 

22 minutes ago, Jay said:

...Sam/Gilly...

 

If Sam doesn't have something of genuine significance still to do, it may very difficult to think of a good excuse for not having him as a fatality during the battle at Winterfell. (Being the author of "A Song of Ice and Fire" won't cut it for me.)

 

10 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

Dany dies...

 

I wonder how they deal with Drogon...

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With every scorpion destroyed in the siege, the show has run out of weapons that have been setup to be able to take down a dragon.  So either the dragon lives through the end credits, like it just flies off into the distance after Dany dies or something.... or they invent a new weapon out of nowhere that takes him down shortly after it's introduced.

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I have a question.

 

Why did Bran have the foresight to setup the Battle of Winterfell such that he could get the Night King close to him in the right spot where Arya could stab him, but told no one and did nothing to prevent Dany's attack on King's Landing?

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2 minutes ago, Jay said:

With every scorpion destroyed in the siege, the show has run out of weapons that have been setup to be able to take down a dragon.  

 

Or, a scorpion from Euron's sunken fleet washes ashore when the plot demands it and they use that.

 

Just now, Jay said:

I have a question.

 

Why did Bran have the foresight to setup the Battle of Winterfell such that he could get the Night King close to him in the right spot where Arya could stab him, but told no one and did nothing to prevent Dany's attack on King's Landing?

 

Plot reasons?

Honestly, at this point it's pretty pointless to ask such questions. The stuff that D&D feels needs to happen will happen, the rest will be completely forgotten by anyone on the show.

 

 

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Episode 1 was just...fine. As you say. Pretty standard early season set-up episode. Not especially well written (though probably better than the super long D&D episodes).

Episode 2 was written by Bryan Cogman and was leaps-and-bounds better, IMO. Maybe you watch this show primarily for the spectacle but I watch it primarily FOR the "character stuff" (that's what got me through the otherwise unbearably stupid "Beyond the Wall" episode in season 7). Episode 2 "A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms" was just superbly written "character stuff" and I loved every minute of it...it was a beautifully written payoff to multiple storylines/relationships, before (we thought) more than half of the main characters were going to die. It was emotional and powerful and cathartic. I was moved. My hopes for the rest of the season were greatly increased. "And we will never see its like again." :(

Yavar

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3 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

Plot reasons?

Honestly, at this point it's pretty pointless to ask such questions. The stuff that D&D feels needs to happen will happen, the rest will be completely forgotten by anyone on the show.

 

If they were gonna do absolutely nothing with Bran in episodes 4 and 5 this season, why not just kill him off during the Battle of Winterfell.  I can't see him being actively involved with much that's gonna happen in the final episode, so I guess his only role post-Night-King-death is just to be the "preserver of human history".... sigh.

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1 minute ago, Yavar Moradi said:


Episode 2 was written by Bryan Cogman and was leaps-and-bounds better, IMO. Maybe you watch this show primarily for the spectacle but I watch it primarily FOR the "character stuff" (that's what got me through the otherwise unbearably stupid "Beyond the Wall" episode in season 7). Episode 2 "A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms" was just superbly written "character stuff" and I loved every minute of it...it was a beautifully written payoff to multiple storylines/relationships, before (we thought) more than half of the main characters were going to die. It was emotional and powerful and cathartic. I was moved. My hopes for the rest of the season were greatly increased. "And we will never see its like again." :(

Yavar

 

See, episode 2 was slightly worse then ep 1, IMO.

 

Beautifully written fan service that puts characters who had every reason for years and years to hate and distrust each other together to sing a merry song or two. It was just, let's put all these characters in one place because thats what the fans wanna see.

 

 

1 minute ago, Jay said:

.... sigh.

 

I wonder if that's the noise GRRM constantly makes when he's watching this show now?

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2 minutes ago, Jay said:

Why did Bran have the foresight to setup the Battle of Winterfell such that he could get the Night King close to him in the right spot where Arya could stab him, but told no one and did nothing to prevent Dany's attack on King's Landing?

 

Because he's become fucking useless? Maybe the last episode will have some final big magical timey-wimey reveal regarding him, but for now I still very much think this should have been done:
 

 

If you watch that I'd be curious to hear your thoughts!

 

Yavar

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After Episode 2, Joanna Robinson asked Bryan Cogman (in a podcast interview) whether we're supposed to believe Bran's account of the Night King's aim (to erase humanity, etc.). The question was followed by a deathly silence, some nervous laughter and then a non-answer "Bran has said what he said...that's all I can say...".

 

It may well amount to nothing, but it was interesting that he didn't just say "Yes".

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1 hour ago, Quintus said:

Heh, it's far more enjoyable than the majority of the episodes you've watched this season.

 

 

I sit down on Sunday nights with a nice drink and watch GOT with my wife on our nice big TV.

 

I'm currently at work, and I'm not gonna watch youtube fanwank here on the clock, nor bookmark it to watch with my precious freetime some time later at home.

 

Sorry.

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3 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

 

See, episode 2 was slightly worse then ep 1, IMO.

 

Beautifully written fan service that puts characters who had every reason for years and years to hate and distrust each other together to sing a merry song or two. It was just, let's put all these characters in one place because thats what the fans wanna see.

 

1. You admit it was "beautifully written".
2. Presumably you do not think episode 1 was as(?) beautifully written, at least...I personally didn't think it was remotely as well written.
3. *Both* of those episodes were very much about having characters meet up for the first time or who hadn't seen each other in years. There were just so many characters to put together at Winterfell that it needed two episodes.

 

So you haven't explained at all why you think episode 2 was "slightly worse". And it would seem you are in the minority because it clearly has a higher IMDb rating (and the premiere episode probably even has an inflated rating if anything, since it was the first of the season after a long hiatus).

4. I personally don't think Episode 2 was even remotely "fan service" -- I've heard that term bandied about so much it's become meaningless. But I don't think it applies here. Everything in this episode felt like an organic conclusion to multiple relationship arcs. How could it have been written to be less fan-service-y to you? What character interactions felt unnatural and forced to you, like they were invented just to make the fans happy? "Fan service" describes the D&D episodes far more than "A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms" IMO. Even when it doesn't please the fans, they do so many things that don't make organic sense from a character standpoint just because they thought it'd be cool. That's my sniff test for fan service.

 

5. It wasn't remotely "a merry song" -- were you not paying attention?

 

This episode was about the characters getting to take a short breath/solace before inevitable tragedy. But apparently you don't want them to have that, or it's fan service?

 

6. All these characters got put in one place because they all decided to stand against The Long Night. It's as simple as that. Uniting against death. What's the problem? Who became best buddies in this episode who were mortal enemies before? What was unnatural or forced. I really look forward to you expanding on this.

Yavar

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8 minutes ago, Jay said:

I'm not going to watch a 30 minute video of Game of Thrones fanfiction, sorry

 

That's...not really what it is. It's more of a (very professional) essay about how to fix the structure/impact of this particular episode, working within the plot boundaries the showrunners set for it. With a single exception, this person does not add or subtract any deaths for example -- he merely changes where/how they occur in the episode, to great effect. It's more of a skillful restructuring of the existing episode than independent fanfiction that takes the story in some sort of entirely different direction.

I'm not interested in fanfiction either. But honestly this person's "rewrite" comes across less like fanfiction than the actual episode we got. How close to Martin's equivalent to "The Long Night" do you think the actual episode itself will turn out to be?

 

Yavar

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3 minutes ago, Yavar Moradi said:

But honestly this person's "rewrite" comes across less like fanfiction than the actual episode we got

 

Because the writing on GOT is basically fan service now!

 

And I would imagine Martin would save The Long Night for last.

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12 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

Like I said, fan service!

 

Some people like it, I personally don't.

 

And what specific things in the episode were fan service and bothered you because they stood out as fan service?

 

Unless you're saying you don't like characters meeting up and interacting before a big battle, how should they have interacted more naturally and less fan-service-y, in your view?

 

Some fans have been 'shipping Arya and Gendry for years. And while the two characters "hooked up" in this episode I think it was made perfectly clear that they had no sort of real romance or future. It wasn't done in a remotely fan-service-y way, IMO. If anything it was uncomfortable and sad (Arya's expression as she lies awake).

 

I suppose the group conversing around the fire is what most offended you, based on your reference to "singing a merry song or two"? (Again, it was a single song...and quite a sad one.) What characters around that fire had "reason to hate each other" and were suddenly and conveniently for "fan service" getting along? In fact there was a line that recognized something that most of that group had in common: having fought against the Starks, before now defending Winterfell. I guess if anyone had a legit grudge there it'd be Davos against Tyrion, for the death of his son in the Battle of the Blackwater...but we've already seen long before this point that Davos isn't holding that grudge like many fathers might. Apart from both being attracted to Brienne, Jaime and Tormund have no reason to hate each other and to me they behave in that scene just how their characters *would* behave.

I really feel you are misrepresenting this episode as "fan service" simply because a bunch of characters met and nobody killed anybody. I honestly don't think it could have been done any better than it was done. And that's something I can't say of any other episode since the final one of season 6.

 

Yavar

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I think The Bells episode is good, not that bad to be honest. Aside from Cersei's treatment, i found the episode to be quite the entertainment. I like it. 

Yes, it's hollow, but it still keeps me on the edge of my bed.

 

And i think weshould really appriciate this episode more, with this:

The comment section is what you have been looking for

 

 

And i cant wait for what DD will bring into the star wars saga comes 2022.

http://collider.com/next-star-wars-movie-game-of-thrones-writers/

The Next ‘Star Wars’ Movie Will Be From ‘Game of Thrones’ Showrunners David Benioff and D.B. Weiss

I think they are really good at handling drama, family feud, and a really memorable villain. I think they will do just fine.

 

 

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48 minutes ago, Jay said:

I sit down on Sunday nights with a nice drink and watch GOT with my wife on our nice big TV.

 

I'm currently at work, and I'm not gonna watch youtube fanwank here on the clock, nor bookmark it to watch with my precious freetime some time later at home.

 

Sorry.

 

I watch Game of Thrones wearing a harness while scaling sheer rock faces. That's not even my precious free time either. Speaking of which, don't you make extensive film cue timings lists with descriptions, annotations and comprehensive glossary in your precious free time? Personally, I'd rather watch funny cat videos with a beer, but we're all different.

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1 hour ago, Yavar Moradi said:

I really feel you are misrepresenting this episode as "fan service" simply because a bunch of characters met and nobody killed anybody.

 

I am not misrepresenting anything, I was giving my opinion. There's a lot of fan service in this season. CleganeBowl for example. Two characters who, as far as I can recall, havent had anything to do with each other since season one go mano a mano because....it became a meme after last season. There's nothing character driven about it. The Hound famously doesnt give a fuck about anything, and The Mountain is a lobotomised zombie. Yet they duke it out in the middle of the abyss...for?

 

 

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2 hours ago, Holko said:

Arya killed Meryn Trant many seasons ago. Your knowledge is... too old.

 

Yes, you are right. I wrote Meryn Trant but I was picturing and meant Ser Ilyn Payne, whose actor left the show for medical reasons. 

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