Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny (James Mangold, June 30 2023)

[Quintus 5,399]

Yes.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

After watching the special features on the 2-disc DVD I was surprised that a lot of the shots that I thought were CG were in fact done practically.

Yeah, it's got to be what's-his-name's cinematography that lends an artificial look to even practical stunt shots. The warehouse scene looks majorly artificial and has that look of CGI slickness, but a lot of it was done for real. The photography was shit, to be blunt.

[Diego 21]

Are there CGI gophers in the Bermuda Triangle?

[Henry B 50]

After watching the special features on the 2-disc DVD I was surprised that a lot of the shots that I thought were CG were in fact done practically.

Yeah, it's got to be what's-his-name's cinematography that lends an artificial look to even practical stunt shots. The warehouse scene looks majorly artificial and has that look of CGI slickness, but a lot of it was done for real. The photography was shit, to be blunt.

Yeah... an effect can be real and still look fake as hell. Not an example of bad effects, but I was quite shocked that some of the shots in this scene from Hellboy were of a man in a suit, not CG. Maybe the lines really are blurring. KotCS has examples of real photography ruined by lighting, cinematography and whatever post processing work they do.

[Andy 4,087]

There were only two moments which annoyed me (and made me cringe), as far as Ford was concerned: "Ike" and "Wubble-yous". Other than those complete misfires, I actually found Ford very funny and convincing.

Grrrr, Koepp.

For me it was when he started to convulse after looking into the skull too long. It was just... unintentionally funny. Other than that, Harrison Ford did a superb job. I am half his age, and look half as good.

Yeah... an effect can be real and still look fake as hell. Not an example of bad effects, but I was quite shocked that some of the shots in this scene from Hellboy were of a man in a suit, not CG.

That Hellboy scene is really well done. That careful balance of suit and CG is always the way to go, as Jurassic Park has shown.

KotCS has examples of real photography ruined by lighting, cinematography and whatever post processing work they do.

Precisely, especially the post processing part. Computers have ruined cinematography in modern film. The sky is rarely blue anymore, and nothing seems to look natural, as though a real lens just captured it. So while KOTCS may not have had sets generated by computer, they most certainly were mucked with in post.

[John Crichton 4]

That's something I've been railing against for years- color grading by computer has gotten completely out of hand.

[Red 75]

If this is true, there are really only two ways it can go: either Spielberg and Lucas (well, at least Spielberg) will learn from their mistakes and make a better film, or they won't and we'll get more of the same. I have to admit I kind of liked Indy IV, but it was not as nearly as good as it should have been and I'm not about to keep my hopes up that they won't fumble again. The horse is dead.

[Andy 4,087]

That's something I've been railing against for years- color grading by computer has gotten completely out of hand.

Amen, brother!

[Henry B 50]

Denied.

[crumbs 14,304]

I was distraught when I heard Kaminski was going full-Digital Intermediate for the post production of this film. WHY?! And it was only scanned at 2K (in technical terms, that means the film now only exists in pixel data with dimensions 1920 x 1080 pixels). And worse still, they said before release they were colour grading the film to match the original 3. Absolutely nothing in Kaminski's plastic, fake, overblown cinematography resembled the gorgeous contrast and earthy but deeply saturated hues of Slocombe's work on the first 3 films.

Dean Cundey would have been a much better fit for the look of the film. It's hard not to associate Kaminski with the "new" Spielberg, that few consider as talented a filmmaker as the 70's/80's/early 90's Spielberg.

It's doubly as frustrating because Kaminski usually shoots very grainy, high contrast films. Thus the only conclusion I can reach is that the digital mucking and post-production strips away almost all the 'grit' and 'dirt' of the celluloid and cleans it up into a sugary mess.

[Brónach 1,301]

i think the film looked brilliant for the most part, but some of the exteriors didn't look too well due to the way it was shot.

[Quintus 5,399]

The jungle actually looks like a theme park jungle. I mean, what the fuck were they thinking?!

It's Lucas' fault, all the digital stuff.

[Richard Penna 3,673]

Yeap, the first three look somewhat imperfect in the grain and weaker colours. They genuinely look like they were filmed in the 80s. KotCS looks too polished and clean for this franchise.

[Brónach 1,301]

Yeah, it doesn't look real, the viewer isn't "there". And don't get me started with the ants-waterfalls sequence...

[Richard Penna 3,673]

The other thing that bothers me is how staged the stunts look. I mean take the swing from the beam in the warehouse. Indy lands in the truck and spends several seconds deliberating his next move.

In Raiders, the bad guys tried to fight back the instant they saw him. In this scene, they just sit there looking fairly bemused, waiting their turn for Indy to punch them.

It's really hard to be thrilled at sequences done with that laziness.

[Brónach 1,301]

Yes, for example in the jungle chase Marion drives happily while watches his son fight to the DEATH against Irina with no reason at all. This kind of stuff happens all the time in the script, it's just bad writing.

[Wojo 2,453]

I'm guessing that in the world of Indiana Jones, the Soviet soldiers knew just how old this guy is, fifty-something or other. Maybe they had unbreakable orders not to kill him, based on how much of the crystal skull story they knew from the onset, which Indy (and us) had to figure out as he went.

They were a bit incredulous that he was turning action star all of a sudden against such incredible odds. The delay was used for comedic effect, even if outside the fourth wall, but gave him time to defeat them each time.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Hugh Laurie as Gordon Freeman? Isn't he a bit old and frail looking? I'd have him pinned for the G-Man instead.

[Quintus 5,399]

In Raiders, the bad guys tried to fight back the instant they saw him. In this scene, they just sit there looking fairly bemused, waiting their turn for Indy to punch them.

It's really hard to be thrilled at sequences done with that laziness.

Indeed, it's amazing really how freakin' brutal the Raiders truck chase scrap really is - plus it features still to this day one of the most realistic gunshot wounds (Indy's shoulder) in the movies. By contrast, the badly staged frolics of Indy IV come off like something out of a Disney action flick.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,504]

I really wanted to like this film more than I did. I agree with just about every negative thing said about KOTCS on this site.

From Quint's "Disney action filck" to all the comments about digital grading, it really was a missed oppertunity, bringing back a well-loved character simply because people (yes, I'm talking to you, Mr. L!) could.

This is no reason to revive a movie franchise. The only light was John Hurt (who can do absolutely no wrong!) and Karen Allen, who looks sexier, and more attractive than ever. Two islands in a sea of dross.

[Luke Skywalker 1,792]

The shot of him crashing into the truck in the warehouse might be/have an effect, but I'm not sure.

It is not. IRRC.

[crocodile 7,984]

The jungle actually looks like a theme park jungle. I mean, what the fuck were they thinking?!

It's Lucas' fault, all the digital stuff.

Pity, because Kaminski can obviously photograph jungle very well. The Lost World would be a good example.

Karol

[Quintus 5,399]

Which makes Indy IV even more baffling!

[Luke Skywalker 1,792]

I find TLW rather fake in lighting

And the tree where tim crashes in Jurassic park...is 100% a theme park attraction...

[Brónach 1,301]

Now that you mention it, I've always wanted Jurassic Park to be a better movie than it is... becasue it contains dinosaurs... it must be done perfectly...

My reaction to Infy IV is similar; it contains "Indy" and "South Amercan imaginary cultures" and "Alien stuff". It deserved better.

[Quintus 5,399]

I find TLW rather fake in lighting

I disagree, I thought the way that movie was shot was one of it's strong points.

[Luke Skywalker 1,792]

Well i mean night scenes.

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

After watching the special features on the 2-disc DVD I was surprised that a lot of the shots that I thought were CG were in fact done practically.

Yeah, it's got to be what's-his-name's cinematography that lends an artificial look to even practical stunt shots. The warehouse scene looks majorly artificial and has that look of CGI slickness, but a lot of it was done for real. The photography was shit, to be blunt.

I honestly never thought the warehouse looked artificial, espcially if u have this habit of mine where I often try to reverse engineer the lighting (at least the main ones) when looking at pictures/films.

[Diego 21]

That's something I've been railing against for years- color grading by computer has gotten completely out of hand.

That's one thing that annoys me so much from the Special Editions. I remember when Hoth was actually white. These images are to highlight the more obvious changes, so they're not exactly the same, but they illustrate the color change:

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

The blue tints in the SE's are horrible. It's most noticeable in Empire but all three of them have it. They're also way too dark now. Look at all the detail lost. It's mind boggling.

[Brónach 1,301]

The original colors look cooler...Hoth s white, Vader related stuff is actually dark, Dagobah looks actually rainy and mysterious...

I'm all for editing my own version of the first two movies out of the different versions... Some changes are spot on, but others ruin it.

[Andy 4,087]

It's the visual equivalent of cranking up the very lowest and very highest knobs on your stereo's equalizer. All the mid range detail is lost.

[Richard Penna 3,673]

The jungle actually looks like a theme park jungle. I mean, what the fuck were they thinking?!

It's Lucas' fault, all the digital stuff.

Pity, because Kaminski can obviously photograph jungle very well. The Lost World would be a good example.

Karol

The Jungle in KotCS looks like the prequels - plasticy and full of bright colours.

Dump Lucas and Indy 5 might actually be good.

[Ollie 1,059]

The Jungle in KotCS looks like the prequels - plasticy and full of bright colours.

That was another problem I had. Even if they didn't overload it with CGI, the film looks fake.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

The jungle scenes look absolutely horrible. The "snake pit" part looked like it was done on a backlot set.

[Brónach 1,301]

The fact that Mutt only has one snake to help (and the snake itself doesn't seem to mind it very much) when they are in the middle of a freakin' jungle adds to the fake feel.

[Quintus 5,399]

The jungle scenes look absolutely horrible. The "snake pit" part looked like it was done on a backlot set.

That sequence should be made to stand trial in The Hague.

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

The blue tints in the SE's are horrible. It's most noticeable in Empire but all three of them have it. They're also way too dark now. Look at all the detail lost. It's mind boggling.

I actually have a properly calibrated monitor and I think the SEs look fine with pleasing contrast(the only one with perhaps too much contrast is the asteroid field). Yes, I'm not fond of Dagobah's new blue look.

[Luke Skywalker 1,792]

What about the color tinkering of the LOTR movies?

Overload IMHO. Just to talk of other things not s`pielberg-lucas

[Quintus 5,399]

In general, I agree with you. The night time sequences suffer most - that artificially darkened look makes everything feel slightly staged. Instead of filming night time scenes in daylight, I'd have preferred it if they'd just done it the old fashioned way.

Minor niggles though, since Jacko crammed in so much awesomeness one is hard pushed to notice.

[Ollie 1,059]

Different movies, different subject matters.

[Luke Skywalker 1,792]

In general, I agree with you. The night time sequences suffer most - that artificially darkened look makes everything feel slightly staged. Instead of filming night time scenes in daylight, I'd have preferred it if they'd just done it the old fashioned way.

About the night scenes...i wonder if that is not the standard procedure.

After all, Jaws opening scene is shoot like that, i think. Several other old movies do that.

Oh, and I can't stand the fake underwater in LOTR.

[Ollie 1,059]

The Searchers is another example of bad phony night shooting. You can even see the dark makeup on John Wayne and Jeffery Hunter's face.

[Quintus 5,399]

And yet I find it kind of endearing, in older movies. I just have an adverse reaction to digital tinkering, when it boils down to little more than corner cutting. Practical it may be; but preferred it is not.

One of the reasons LotR is so revered from a craft perspective, is because they did everything for real, whenever possible; compared to say, anything on a Lucas shoot.

[Brónach 1,301]

Oh, and I can't stand the fake underwater in LOTR.

Me neither. The horrible shot of Deagol underwater... ugh. They could have removed that shot or something.

The Return Of The King is another movie I'd have to edit. Both versions are flawed with different unnecesary/bad scenes each one and there are some bad shots like that one.

[Jay 37,300]

Huh. Never noticed bad underwater stuff in LOTR.

[Luke Skywalker 1,792]

Huh. Never noticed bad underwater stuff in LOTR.

Go to the oculist

All underwater people on strings, with slowmotion and fans to make the hair flow.

And some digital bubbles and underwater filter.

Awful, considering the quality of the rest of the films.

[Quintus 5,399]

The underwater shots in LotR don't bother me in the slightest. In fact I was genuinely surprised to find out that the shot of Sam almost drowning at the end of Fellowship WASN'T underwater at all.

[Jay 37,300]

I don't get it. Why didn't they just film those scenes underwater for real?

[Joe Brausam 214]

All the underwater stuff looks fake to me. But what bothers me more is when Frodo pulls Sam out of the water, after the camera changes only Sam's hair is wet and the rest of him is dry!