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I didn't actually hate those things, my problem with that bit was that basically nothing from the start of the movie until Indy meeting Mutt, had any relevance at all to all 1/2 a plot there seemed to be in this movie.

Sounds like Quantum of Solace, but a little less boring than that snoozefest.

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I didn't actually hate those things, my problem with that bit was that basically nothing from the start of the movie until Indy meeting Mutt, had any relevance at all to all 1/2 a plot there seemed to be in this movie.

It had more relevance to the plot than the opening of Raiders or LC. All those two openings did was introduce chief characters and their relationships with each others--Raiders was Jones himself and Belloq, LC was Henry. KotCS not only introduced Spalko, her second in command, and Mac, but it gave us a clue as to what she was after. It also served to motivate the KGB agents to come after Jones in the motorcycle chase scene. So in that sense it actually had more relevance to the plot than Raiders or LC.

The Indy being "fired" subplot served the main theme of the film just by allowing for a sad beginning and a happy ending--in the beginning it seemed like Indy had reached the point where "life stopped giving things and started taking them," but by the end this was proved to be untrue (more due to the family connections, but I'd say the job counts). The Indy under military watch was a tad unnecessary, but I guess it was the only reason that Indy was fired, so again, it served the main theme.

The plot itself becomes more focused as soon as Mutt arrives, but I wouldn't say the first half is irrelevant to the rest of the film.

indy4 - who feels like arguing the good qualities of KotCS again :joy:

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Yeah, the beginning of this film is actually a LOT more related to the main plot than with the other films. Raiders introduces the bad guy, but not the MacGuffin. TOD introduces the two sidekicks and gets them to the setting of the rest of the story, but the bad guy and the main conflict don't come in until later. TLC delves into Indy's history and very briefly introduces his dad's fascination with the Grail, but it has very little bearing overall on the main plot. KOTCS introduces the villains, the MacGuffin (sorta), and one of the sidekicks...it actually starts us going right away. Not necessarily trying to say that's better or worse, but I think you've got it backwards, richuk.

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Yeah, I was actually pretty disappointed that the opening of film dove right into the principal plot. On the other hand, it was never clear how the alien corpses related to the Crystal Skull, or why they themselves didn't have crystal skulls. Or what the Roswell aliens were doing on Earth. Or why the twelve alien skeletons combined to form one living alien. Or why this alien/alien skeletons deigned to grant wishes. God ... It makes my head spin.

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Yeah, I was actually pretty disappointed that the opening of film dove right into the principal plot.

I wasn't; I thought it worked just fine. There were detours along the route (e.g. Indy under government suspicion), and those bothered me, but I had no issue with starting off with the main plot right away. I think the other route works just fine for Raiders and TLC, but not really for TOD. There are other factors that are much more important, and while the opening of KOTCS certainly wasn't perfect, I was not particularly disappointed with it.

On the other hand, it was never clear how the alien corpses...themselves didn't have crystal skulls.

They did. ;)

Or what the Roswell aliens were doing on Earth.

Being worshiped by South Americans! :P

Not trying to defend the aliens plot overall, by the way...while I appreciate what they were trying to do, that aspect just didn't feel like Indiana Jones to me.

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Mmmm...no, let's not hope that. Call me crazy, but it generally takes a lot more than a possible opportunity to score a film to make me want someone dead.

he's already dead....;)

do we need a 3rd bad followup to Raiders and Temple?

Mmmm...no, let's not hope that. Call me crazy, but it generally takes a lot more than a possible opportunity to score a film to make me want someone dead.

he's already dead....:P

do we need a 3rd bad followup to Raiders and Temple?

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do we need a 3rd bad followup to Raiders and Temple?

You mean a third mediocre-but-often-fun followup to Raiders and TLC? Sure, why not.

thats not what I mean, I said what I mean, to further emphasize it...The Least Crusade, KOTCS, and IJandthefinalstrawthatruinstheentireseries.

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On the other hand, it was never clear how the alien corpses related to the Crystal Skull,

They were cousins of the aliens at Akator. Spalko was trying to learn more about the mysterious Crystal Skull by studying a closely related species.

or why they themselves didn't have crystal skulls.

Like Datameister said, they did. And I don't really see what the problem would be if they didn't--after all, they are related, not of the same species.

Or what the Roswell aliens were doing on Earth.

While the film never specifically mentions why the Roswell aliens went to Earth, it does show why aliens would want to go to Earth ("They were archaeologists"). This is sufficient enough in giving reason for the aliens. And honestly, it doesn't really matter. THe aliens were there, the reason has nothing to do with the plot or the rest of the film.

Or why the twelve alien skeletons combined to form one living alien.

Eh, just an effect. I would've preferred it didn't exist, because I think that being surronded by 13 alien skeletons is more intimidating that being face to face with one live one. But it doesn't really bother me.

Or why this alien/alien skeletons deigned to grant wishes.

Grant wishes? I don't think it granted any wishes. The only reason the Skull "helped" Indy and friends was because if they suceded in bringing it back to Akator, the aliens would regain their property.

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I think he's talking about the whole "And it wants to give us a gift" or whatever the line was. But my question there would be, "Why not?" I don't understand why there's confusion or an issue around that.

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If this actually happens, I for one will be genuinely excited about it.

Honestly, would anyone here not see it in theaters or pre-order the soundtrack?

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Can we all agree the CGI alien at the end of KOTCS was God Damned terrible? I'm not talking about the skeletons, but that actual alien creature that they form to revive or whatever, which proceeds to make a mean face at Agent Splako and press its face into the "camera" like Jabba's CGI dancers or something. Visually, it didn't fit at all with the preceding film.

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Yes. It was really lame. If they had gone with a practical effect for the alien (puppet/animatronic/costume) it could've been really cool. As it is, though, it's lame.

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Visually, it didn't fit at all with the preceding film.

I don't see why it really needed to. The films have used the technologies of their time. Its not like most of the effects in LC were really any special either

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Yeah. I dunno, I could go either way as long as the alien is made of real physical matter that was put in front of the camera.

Ah, that. Wasn't that just a "thank you" for returning the Skull?

It seemed like it to me. I thought its intentions were benevolent, but Spalko took the skull from Oxley and, returning it, made her demands, and it let her have it. Pretty straightforward.

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I don't see why it really needed to. The films have used the technologies of their time.

Maybe I should re-phrase. I thought it looked totally out of place in KOTCS itself, not when compared to the other movies. It's like a silly CGI thing from Men In Black or something dropped into the movie totally destroying the continuity from a visual standpoint. After managing to stay awake through all the boring temple scenes, it took me completely out of the movie. I think Spielberg himself facepalmed when watching that.

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That is what I was wondering...Hm, to be honest, there is only one Negro actor that I am aware of who has a deep, authoritative voice similar to that of Martin Luther King, and that is James Earl Jones. But I cannot really see him in the part....

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That is what I was wondering...Hm, to be honest, there is only one Negro actor that I am aware of who has a deep, authoritative voice similar to that of Martin Luther King, and that is James Earl Jones. But I cannot really see him in the part....

Jones would be the right age for the part only if the movie were about a hypothetical present-day King.

By the way, the term Negro fell out of favor nearly forty years ago -- why are you dredging it up again?

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I always thought that anthropologically speaking, it is a legitimate word. Maybe anthropology is racist!

You might be thinking of Negroid. Either way, it seems unnecessary at best to resort to anthropological terminology when speculating about the casting for an upcoming film.

And, yes, like any other field of study, anthropology can be racist!

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I want the Nazis back!!

Come to Austria, you may yet find your wish come true.

"Journey to Austria" ;)

By the way, the term Negro fell out of favor nearly forty years ago -- why are you dredging it up again?

Oh, is it? I suppose that is what I get for learning English from a grammarbook from the early 1900's....

It's kinda ironic that the youngest member of this board uses such an outdated term... :P

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I want the Nazis back!!

Come to Austria, you may yet find your wish come true.

"Journey to Austria" ;)

Won't help. Spielberg won't portray Nazis as a comic book characters anymore. He isn't that scrupulous regarding Soviets, though.

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I want the Nazis back!!

Come to Austria, you may yet find your wish come true.

"Journey to Austria" ;)

Won't help. Spielberg won't portray Nazis as a comic book characters anymore. He isn't that scrupulous regarding Soviets, though.

Maybe the next villains will be Poles! :P

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In the new Indiana Jones video games, Nazis are referred to as "Germans" and wear iron crosses rather than swastikas.

What does he fight against then? Die Bundeswehr?

Maybe the next villains will be Poles! ;)

He wouldn't stand a chance...

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In the new Indiana Jones video games, Nazis are referred to as "Germans" and wear iron crosses rather than swastikas.

If you are referring to the LEGO games, I think it was because the designers said that Nazis do not fit in with the "cute" policy of LEGO. And if you referring to Indiana Jones and the Staff of Kings...I really hope you are not.

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Hey, apropos nothing, I just realized why Indy 4 isn't as good as the other 3.

It's because it doesn't have a true (hot) Indy girl. Marion is great, but she's a bit long in the tooth. And Irina is hotter, but she's also a one-dimensional villlain.

So I say, bring in a proper hot Indy girl next time!

Maybe the next villains will be Poles! :P

He wouldn't stand a chance...

;)

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In the new Indiana Jones video games, Nazis are referred to as "Germans" and wear iron crosses rather than swastikas.

So that we don't offend any Nazis...

If you are referring to the LEGO games, I think it was because the designers said that Nazis do not fit in with the "cute" policy of LEGO.

That makes sense.

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In the new Indiana Jones video games, Nazis are referred to as "Germans" and wear iron crosses rather than swastikas.

If you are referring to the LEGO games, I think it was because the designers said that Nazis do not fit in with the "cute" policy of LEGO. And if you referring to Indiana Jones and the Staff of Kings...I really hope you are not.

I am.

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In the new Indiana Jones video games, Nazis are referred to as "Germans" and wear iron crosses rather than swastikas.

It's probably so they can sell the game in Germany. Any game that has Nazis runs into problems with German law restricting such references.

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Let's hope the potential JW Indy V soundtrack album doesn't have 15 minutes of boring cave music and pointless reiteration tracks like "Return" and most of "Oxley's Dilemma", or chopped up action sequence music. I hope Williams brings back that alternate Raiders march used when Mutt swings and at the end of the credits.

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Let's hope the potential JW Indy V soundtrack album doesn't have 15 minutes of boring cave music and pointless reiteration tracks like "Return" and most of "Oxley's Dilemma", or chopped up action sequence music. I hope Williams brings back that alternate Raiders march used when Mutt swings and at the end of the credits.

Well, we already know that Williams tends to make questionable choices as a soundtrack album producer, so it's really more in the hands of the filmmakers as far as what kind of music we can hope to appear on the album. The less time that is spent spelunking about, and the more time that is spent chasing or being chased by adversaries and women, the greater chance we can expect more of the sort of music that Indy fans like.

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