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Stefancos

The Throne Room and End Title

  

44 members have voted

  1. 1. Which version of The Throne Room is better?

    • The shorter, original version?
      27
    • The extended concert version?
      17


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There are 2 versions. The one used for the film Star Wars (also knows as Star Wars: Episode IV A New Hope, Star Wars: Episode IV A New Hope: The Special Edition, Star Wars: Episode IV A New Hope: The 2007 Special Edition and soon as Star Wars: Episode IV A New Hope: The 3D Edition) and the concert version which features extra section further developing the Throne Room theme and The Force Theme which can be heard on the CD of Revenge Of The Sith and multiple other recordings

Which is best?

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Film arrangement.

I really like the extended version, there's some smashing extra music there, but the downsides are the anti-climatic abruptness of the music before the winds come in with the delicate rendition of the Force theme and then it all gets a bit much and over-produced during the reprisal of Land of Hope and Glory where the snares and extra brass flourishes turn the moment into typical indulgent Williams and it nearly ends up sounding nothing like Star Wars.

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The original all the way.

Although...the only recording of the extended version that I've heard is the one for ROTS, and I'm just generally not fond of that recording, so it's possible I'd feel a little differently if they'd recorded the extended version with the LSO in 1977, too. But still, it feels overly long to me, without much more payoff. The original version (particularly with the brisk pace and energy of the original recording) is just fantastic. Leaves me wanting more, rather than leaving me looking at my watch, waiting for it to be over.

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Although...the only recording of the extended version that I've heard is the one for ROTS, and I'm just generally not fond of that recording,

Try the Gerhardt/NPO recording from 1977. It's the best one out there.

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The extended version is the better version of course. And yes Quint is right; despite its reputation, the Skywalker Symphony version may be the best recorded performance of the piece.

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Hmm, I dunno, the Skywalker Symphony version is pretty friggin' awesome, especially the barnstorming beginning.

Yes, that's what I thought, but the LSO version on the RotS is performed better.

Anyway, I prefer the extended version.

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A Star Wars thread!

I voted the film version because, well, are you kidding?? It's one of those ultimate Williams tracks. I mean, the section where Luke giggles at Artoo and everyone turns to the applauding crowd is known to make me teary-eyed.

I just listened to the Skywalker version and it's fairly excellent.

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I like the arrangement of the extended version better (= more music), but there's nothing that beats the performance and sound mix of the original. The brass and percussions are just awesome. There's a lot more energy in it too

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This may have been discussed in here already but I just realized something by studying the handwritten full score...

So right after the Throne Room sequence ends we hear the Main Title's theme played by the horns, but I just saw it actually wasn't what JW originally wrote !

It looked like this :

 

Throne-Room-Original.jpg

 

And a 9-bar insert was created to add the Main Theme :

 

end-credits-horn.jpg

 

I find it interesting that JW's first take on it didn't include that Main Theme !

Knowing that it was used for every episode afterwards ( played by the trombones in V and VI ) and has become so iconic !

Couldn't imagine any SW movie not having it when the "Written and directed by GEORGE LUCAS" appears :D

 

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Yea, it's been known that happened since 1997.  The booklet that came with the 1997 2CD set mentions the insert.

 

It's noted on my google doc too

 

I hope a future expansion includes the original end credits

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The 1997 2CD set booklet makes it clear it was.  They recorded the original end credits on one day, and the the Insert on a later day

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On 6/21/2011 at 9:38 AM, Stefancos said:

Star Wars (also knows as Star Wars: Episode IV A New Hope, Star Wars: Episode IV A New Hope: The Special Edition, Star Wars: Episode IV A New Hope: The 2007 Special Edition and soon as Star Wars: Episode IV A New Hope: The 3D Edition)

 

It never happened.

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38 minutes ago, Gruesome Son of a Bitch said:

 

It never happened.

 

image.png

 

Erased....

 

 

I appreciate the extended version for giving us the closest thing we have to the iconic moment when the escape pod leaves the ship, outside of the film score itself, but I definitely prefer the more concise one.

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30 minutes ago, Brundlefly said:

Williams' concert arrangements are never better than the original film versions.

 

Interesting... I'd argue most of JW's concert revisions are a significant improvement on what he wrote during the film sessions (Window to the Past, The Lost World, The Face of Pan).

 

There are definitely some that don't work for me, like the distractingly stripped back Hymn to the Fallen or the revised ending for Rebellion is Reborn (and some of his slooooooooow tempo changes) but overall he improves the suites more often than not.

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56 minutes ago, Brundlefly said:

Williams' concert arrangements are never better than the original film versions.

 

The concert "Scherzo for Motorcycle and Orchestra" is an improvement on the film version in every possible way!  Although only in the S/W 1 recording, not the neutered sounding Dudamel one.

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Hi @Stefancos

I realize that you’ve created this thread before the Star Wars LTP concerts began in 2017.  And now that it has, what about adding the version of the said cue from the SW:ANH LTP concerts to the poll.  It's basically everything from the ‘shorter, original version’, with a repeat of a portion of it, but the ending is from the concert version—that ‘the throne room’ melody followed by that ‘force’ melody?

Hear that ending at the 5:52 mark

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My vote goes to the extended version (though the original is awesome as well), and my new favorite recording is the most recent one by Gustavo Dudamel.

 

One curiosity, however, is the inconsistent timpani and cymbal crash during the introductory brass fanfare.  I have eight different recordings, and four of them (including the OST) have the crash on beat 2 of the third measure, while four have it on beat 2 of the second measure.  For what it's worth, the Hal Leonard Signature Edition score places it in bar 3, as in the original.

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2 hours ago, Bellosh said:

Still has the best transition to the end credits out of all the finales.

 

Yes. Empire and Clones are incredible as well, but something about the original just can't be beat.

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30 minutes ago, Datameister said:

 

Yes. Empire and Clones are incredible as well, but something about the original just can't be beat.

 

Here's my wild speculation for Episode IX, especially since JW showed a willingness to re-use concert arrangements as underscore with TLJ: film ends with the second half of the Throne Room concert arrangement, starting with the force theme, so we still get a bit of that without it being the ending. Honestly, I'd prefer that to Binary Sunset ending (number 4)! And it'd beat just straight up reprising the original throne room...

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I much prefer the original version. Never liked the concert arrangement for The Throne Room, although I usually prefer others arrangement as The Ewok Battle....

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2 hours ago, BrotherSound said:

 

Here's my wild speculation for Episode IX, especially since JW showed a willingness to re-use concert arrangements as underscore with TLJ: film ends with the second half of the Throne Room concert arrangement, starting with the force theme, so we still get a bit of that without it being the ending. Honestly, I'd prefer that to Binary Sunset ending (number 4)! And it'd beat just straight up reprising the original throne room...

 

I'm gonna hold onto my hope that for the first time since 2005* - and presumably the last - we'll get a truly new Star Wars end credits transition from Williams. In TFA, it was a nostalgia move, and in TLJ, it was...well, it was consistent with the obvious rehashing of temp tracks elsewhere in the film. But with JJ back at the wheel, I have to hope that we get something new. If we get a fourth consecutive near-identical Force theme ending, I'll be very put-out...

 

* I know the end of Solo reportedly involved Williams, but somehow, it feels like that doesn't count.

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I dunno if he'll be given the opportunity to write a great finale cue with a great transition into the stock end credits opening or not, but I hope he is given freedom to write truly anything he wants for the rest of the end credits roll, and I hope he wants to write something really, really special for it.

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5 minutes ago, Jay said:

I dunno if he'll be given the opportunity to write a great finale cue with a great transition into the stock end credits opening or not, but I hope he is given freedom to write truly anything he wants for the rest of the end credits roll, and I hope he wants to write something really, really special for it.

 

I just want to skip to the part where we know how it all turns out!  Two and a half months!

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4 minutes ago, mrbellamy said:

I like Williams saying he told JJ he's "putting a little bow" on the score. I assume he's thinking of the whole thing that way but I hope he means the end credits as well.

 

Based on how he approached TLJ I am sort of expecting this score to rely even more on prior themes, but I do hope that there are a lot of new arrangements, filtering everything with finality and not just straight reprisals. That said I think I'll be pretty unconditionally happy with whatever. More so than with TFA and TLJ, and I'm rather pleased those exist at all too. I mean, there are so many givens by now. It's Star Wars, it's John Williams, he's the man. It's gonna sound great. That damn beautiful tiresome overplayed timeless Binary Sunset cue is amazing, let him do it a dozen times if he wants. It still means a lot coming from him. 

 

It'll be great to get new music and new arrangements in any context but this is the victory lap first of all. It's 2019, I'm ready to hear Star Wars: Episode IX by John Williams. Shit's crazy. Feels GOOD.

 

Just 3 months away, my man. Just. 3. More. Months. Loving the positive vibes. :woop::woop::woop:

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