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Trent Hoyt

LOTR Complete Recordings Out Of Print? Being Reissued?

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We know Doug worked on them relatively recently, so they won't be a 100% reissue, which is good. As amazing as those sets are, they do have a fair number of problems (buried choir, removed intentions, multitrack cues...). I'm personally holding out for them. If you had both other sets or found a good deal for them, it may be fine, but if it was me, RotK standing out as the different one next to the reissues would bother the hell out of me.

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17 hours ago, Bajak said:

So I have a chance to buy the RotK CR for $100 (shipping not included), brand new, second hand (of course). Should I?

It seems like a relatively good deal, compared to other offers and yet, the reissues seem to be sure thing (one day), so I am thinking I will rather wait and get all three when they are rereleased. However, I would very much like to have the beautiful book-like sets (yes, it's about the music, but if if I can have nice packaging too...) and I fear that the CR will only be reissued as a regular CD release, or worse, in form of a digital download. I have asked this before and haven't got an answer (not a direct one, anyway), so I'm asking again: do you think the reissues will be (more or less) identical to the originals or do you think some lesser treatment is more likely? Or could it be completely new non-CR release (something like nth anniversary edition)? You all have better experience and more insight into these things than me, so even though you can't know it for sure, I am asking you for an opinion. Thanks

 

One of the best scores of all time. Do it!

 

Doug recently tweeted indicating that these reissues may be years away.

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17 hours ago, Holko said:

We know Doug worked on them relatively recently, so they won't be a 100% reissue, which is good. As amazing as those sets are, they do have a fair number of problems (buried choir, removed intentions, multitrack cues...). I'm personally holding out for them. If you had both other sets or found a good deal for them, it may be fine, but if it was me, RotK standing out as the different one next to the reissues would bother the hell out of me.

 

What would they change about these apparent reissues though? FotR is the only one that's 'different' and no one involved in the production seems to acknowledge that it's basically an isolated score.

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RotK also suffers from multitrack cues and also has some messed up chronology (Denethor putting down Faramir for losing Osgiliath before it was even attacked?). Mind you, I'm aware these are extremely nitpicky, and I'm not actually expecting fixes like this, it would just be nice.

 

Oh, and Two Towers doesn't have Peter Jackson playing the gong (or whatever it's called). Total dealbreaker!

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When at the end of the track, instead of a proper ending, the music just cuts off abruptly and the next track begins abruptly as well. Either put them together in one track, or put them separately with proper clean ends and beginnings, what sense does it make to crossfade them AND cut them into different tracks with a butcher's knife?

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28 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

FotR is the only one that's 'different' and no one involved in the production seems to acknowledge that it's basically an isolated score.

 

Yeah, the Fellowship of the Ring CR could have used some extra work.

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That being said, I don't mind some of  those choices. The Annotated Score, for instance, explains the difference between the CR take and "The Black Rider" (from the OST) by saying that, after the overture in the prologue, Shore and the filmmakers chose to dial back on the choral element of the Ringwraith theme so that it first reappears in its full choral glory (the short choral outburst as they leave Minas Morgul notwithstanding) as they charge into Bree, which is certainly an interesting choice.

 

I'm fine with it because I've got "The Black Rider" to hand almost as a concert suite of the Ringwraith music.

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21 hours ago, Holko said:

When at the end of the track, instead of a proper ending, the music just cuts off abruptly and the next track begins abruptly as well. Either put them together in one track, or put them separately with proper clean ends and beginnings, what sense does it make to crossfade them AND cut them into different tracks with a butcher's knife?

 

Can you provide an example?  I don't recall there being anything like this on the set.

 

21 hours ago, Holko said:

RotK also suffers from multitrack cues and also has some messed up chronology (Denethor putting down Faramir for losing Osgiliath before it was even attacked?). Mind you, I'm aware these are extremely nitpicky, and I'm not actually expecting fixes like this, it would just be nice.

 

There's nothing to 'fix'.  The music is presented as written and recorded, which in the case of ROTK doesn't match the chronology of the finished film.  

 

21 hours ago, Richard Penna said:

I'm not sure it's case of extra work, as much as what exactly they were aiming for when making it. FotR is not an 'as intended' set. The other two are.

 

The methodology for assembling the sets changed for TTT and ROTK out of necessity.  The latter two scores suffered more from post-production editing of the music and the underlying picture making the EE dub stems an unworkable starting point, whereas FOTR was essentially presented in a linear fashion, albeit with some editing.  I suspect that if FOTR were revisited now the end result would be closer to the other two in terms of presentation.

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26 minutes ago, Jim Ware said:

Can you provide an example?  I don't recall there being anything like this on the set.

 

FotR: Keep it Secret, Keep it Safe - A Conspiracy Unmasked

          Gollum - Balin's Tomb

          Caras Galadhon - The Mirror of Galadriel

          The Fighting Uruk-Hai - Parth Galen

           The Road Goes Ever On... Pt.1 - May It Be - The Road Goes Ever On... Pt. 2

 

RotK: Allegiance to Denethor - The Sacrifice of Faramir

          Dwimorberg - The Haunted Mountain - Master Meriadoc, Swordthain

          The Last Debate - The Land of Shadow

 

Most of these transitions make no sense, they just crossfaded two separate cues then cut in the middle of the crossfade. With Balin's Tomb, they also put together 3 pieces which should have minutes of silence between each other, but at least it's presented as one track. Whereas the Denethor-Faramir and the May It Be - Road Goes Pt.2 transitions are pretty much as intended, just cut in half again.

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41 minutes ago, Jim Ware said:

The methodology for assembling the sets changed for TTT and ROTK out of necessity.  The latter two scores suffered more from post-production editing of the music and the underlying picture making the EE dub stems an unworkable starting point, whereas FOTR was essentially presented in a linear fashion, albeit with some editing.  I suspect that if FOTR were revisited now the end result would be closer to the other two in terms of presentation.

 

I'm fairly sure that power-that-be have denied in the past that the EE stems were the starting point for FotR, insisting that it was rebuilt from scratch.

 

Not complaining at all - I'm just trying to understand the process. It rubs me the wrong way when mistakes or inconsistencies are made and people try to pretend that they're not.

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Oh, I wouldn't go as far as burning bootleg CDs, I'll just wait for the CR reissues and buy them. I use VLC on my laptop, and PowerAmp on my phone. It's not really the technicalities I have a problem with, but the principle. It really makes no sense to start the suspended starting strings from Conspiracy at the very end of Keep it Secret below the still winding down laughter, anytime I want to listen to those separate, I'll either be frustrated by that, or I have to create one 15-minute track and only listen to that. Neither will I ever understand why the Denethor-Sacrifice is separate, it's just really stupid. I'll give May It Be a pass, because it must have been a retarded rights issue that caused it to be separated.

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I seem to recall Doug saying (waaaaay back in the day - on the moviemusic boards or wherever that was) that the last two tracks of FOTR were planned to be changed in some way (songs swapped maybe?), but had to be arranged as-was-on-the-OST due to contractual Enya reasons.

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1 hour ago, mstrox said:

I seem to recall Doug saying (waaaaay back in the day - on the moviemusic boards or wherever that was) that the last two tracks of FOTR were planned to be changed in some way (songs swapped maybe?), but had to be arranged as-was-on-the-OST due to contractual Enya reasons.

The CR arrangement IS different than the OST though....

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On ‎1‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 7:54 AM, LOTRHobbitFan said:

Doug recently tweeted indicating that these reissues may be years away.

 

Link?  I don't see that anywhere on his timeline.  Last time he appears to have said something was 102 days ago:

 

 

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1 hour ago, Fal said:

The CR arrangement IS different than the OST though....

 

And the OST arrangement is clearly the original intention of Howard Shore - The Breaking of the Fellowship flows very naturally into "In Dreams", since they're both based on Shire and Fellowship material and both utilize the boy choir.

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6 hours ago, LOTRHobbitFan said:

 

This is what I was referring to. Would be a huge shame to see the potential of these re-releases dragging on like Doug's Hobbit book.

They’ve been dragging on almost exactly the same: they were finished within a few weeks of one another in the spring of 2015. 

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6 hours ago, Doug Adams said:

They’ve been dragging on almost exactly the same: they were finished within a few weeks of one another in the spring of 2015. 

 

Shoot, nearly 3 years ago! Must be so frustrating, Doug, having no say in the matter. They give you the all clear to do a Hobbit music book and help reissue Shore's LOTR music yet there appears no immediate desire to move these projects into fruition. We all thought the end of that Tolkien lawsuit was going to fix everything.

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Depressing news :(

 

I'd happily give Warner Brothers my money to own a new edition of FOTR that contains the full cues as Shore recorded them, instead of the film edits that sometimes track in some bars from other compositions in place of the original bars.

 

Shame WB doesn't seem to want to take my money.

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59 minutes ago, Jay said:

Depressing news :(

 

I'd happily give Warner Brothers my money to own a new edition of FOTR that contains the full cues as Shore recorded them, instead of the film edits that sometimes track in some bars from other compositions in place of the original bars.

 

Shame WB doesn't seem to want to take my money.

 

What a sad, passive aggressive post. I'm surprised at you Jason.

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Warner Bros are still happy to milk LotR. They put out that expensive and huge book about the design and building of both trilogies just before Xmas.

 

I wonder if they’re holding it up in anticipation of the new series. Older versions always do a bit of business when something new comes out so if they were to time a new edition of Howard Shore’s Music (and Doug’s book) for around the time the new series drops they could possibly make more money than normal. 

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53 minutes ago, mstrox said:

Maybe the Complete Recordings rereleases are held up because it's taking forever for WB to manufacture the included (Peter Jackson chosen) wooden shelving unit.

 

:lol:

 

Whatever the hold up is, I hope its resolved soon!

These scores are so brilliant, and there are so many new fans discovering them for the first time all the time, its a shame they can't buy the Complete Recordings sets without forking over hundreds of dollars to third-party resellers.  These great releases deserve to be back in print and available to purchase at retail price from their favorite music retailer of choice!

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I'd be more interested in Hobbit CR's instead of reissues of the LotR sets, but then I already have the Rings' sets so I don't see the burning desire for them as those who didn't manage to get them. 

 

All things Middle-earth have wound down since 2014, I reckon only PJ and Warner Bros. could make these things move along but won't because of the waning interest in the films and the arrival of the Mortal Engines films yet to be released.

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4 hours ago, Arpy said:

I'd be more interested in Hobbit CR's instead of reissues of the LotR sets, but then I already have the Rings' sets.

 

In general I think it would be beneficial to boundle up new material from both parts of the sextet for release.

 

There's also some unreleased diegetic work from Plan 9, Viggo Mortensen et al, which I for one would love to hear, as well.

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As far as the Hobbit scores are concerned, I could really live without them being released as individual expanded releases. They could make a box of those, something like the Superman Blue Box, aimed at fans.

I can't see individual expanded releases get much interest from the general public. Which isn't an indictment on the music really, I don't see any film score get much interest from the public again, years after initial release.

 

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Apologies in advance for the potentially dumb question, but how exactly does everyone know that FOTR isn't an 'ideal' set? How do we know pieces were tracked, edited etc. if we don't have the real thing to compare it with? Does all thit info come from the liner notes? Whatever it is that's missing, I'm happy with the current FOTR presentation. Apart from being unable to buy it.

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One source I know is the Rarities. The FIghting Uruk-Hai (alterate) and Flight to the Ford (alternate) really aren't alternates, just extended pieces. Nothing is changed from the CRs, just bits are added which are not in the movie. Therefore we know these were likely intended as on the Rarities, but mirror the movie edit on the CRs. I've heard of tracking in A Conspiracy Unmasked, but I never noticed it.

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1 hour ago, bollemanneke said:

Apologies in advance for the potentially dumb question, but how exactly does everyone know that FOTR isn't an 'ideal' set? How do we know pieces were tracked, edited etc. if we don't have the real thing to compare it with? 

 

But we do have the unedited cues.  They have showed up in a bunch of places such as the EE DVD box set (as menu music or behind documentary features), video games (there have been A LOT of LOTR video games), and IIRC some finally showed up on the Hobbit DVD/BDs.  

 

Faleel has an entire thread where you can hear the original unedited cues:

 

http://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?/topic/23525-the-lord-of-the-rings-score-restored-unused-howard-shore-music-restored-to-picture/

 

It's not an opinion that the FOTR CR set replicates the tracking PJ utilized in the final cut of the film, its a definitive unquestionable fact.  TTT and ROTK CRs do not do any of that, however; They went back and grabbed the unedited session cues to make those.

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13 hours ago, Holko said:

One source I know is the Rarities. The FIghting Uruk-Hai (alterate) and Flight to the Ford (alternate) really aren't alternates, just extended pieces. Nothing is changed from the CRs, just bits are added which are not in the movie. Therefore we know these were likely intended as on the Rarities, but mirror the movie edit on the CRs. I've heard of tracking in A Conspiracy Unmasked, but I never noticed it.

Flight to the Ford is a true alternate in that it in fact contains the film version of the actual subdued music for the build-up of Witch-King's approach (not the Shore preferred aleatoric horn version which is on the OST and FotR CR) and the frantic female chorus staccato chant. The opening chase music is more or less the same.

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