indy4

Are you primarily a fan of John Williams or film music?

Are you primarily a fan of John Williams or film music?  

62 members have voted

  1. 1. Are you primarily a fan of John Williams or film music?

    • I prefer JW over every other film composer combined.
      47
    • I prefer every other film composer combined over JW.
      15


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The only combination that would make it difficult for me would be:

All my Dvorak + Prokofiev + Korngold + Bernstein + Bernstein + Jarre + Walton + Shostakovitch.

But still, I have more JW albums :)

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Giacchino isn't a subtitute!

He is, actually.

Ever since he composed those computer game scores based on Spielberg/Williams films in the late 90's soundtracks fans have been proclaiming him as the new John Williams.

Which is frankly a bloody massive insult to JW. Gia isn't even in the same realm as James Horner, let alone John Williams.

Look, I like Giacchino - I like what he represents and I really appreciate what he tries to do. But he ain't no master, noooooo fucking chance. Not yet at least.

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Giacchino isn't a subtitute!

He is, actually.

Ever since he composed those computer game scores based on Spielberg/Williams films in the late 90's soundtracks fans have been proclaiming him as the new John Williams.

Which is frankly a bloody massive insult to JW. Gia isn't even in the same realm as James Horner, let alone John Williams.

I like Giacchino, I like what he represents and I really appreciate what he tries to do. But he ain't no master, noooooo fucking chance. Not yet at least.

Giacchino's Star Trek sounds similar to Cliff Eidelman's soo that should show how high he ranks.

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Yet somehow they never broke though.

I guess you need luck to be signed on to the right film, or the right director/producer.

It's like that eternal question what would have happened if Spielberg never hired JW for Sugerland? Would he have achieved a great career anyway?

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Amazing what one offhand remark by Spielberg will do for a man's reputation. Giacchino is not and has never been a Williams substitute. His strengths are very, very different from Williams', and I'm sure he'd agree that (as with the vast majority of human beings) his compositional skills simply aren't as deep and varied and advanced as Williams'. Doesn't mean his work can't be enjoyable to listen to because of its own idiosyncratic strengths.

That being said, my Giacchino fandom has been waning lately. I need a little more stylistic variety and melodic and orchestrational maturity from him.

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Amazing what one offhand remark by Spielberg will do for a man's reputation. Giacchino is not and has never been a Williams substitute. His strengths are very, very different from Williams', and I'm sure he'd agree that (as with the vast majority of human beings) his compositional skills simply aren't as deep and varied and advanced as Williams'. Doesn't mean his work can't be enjoyable to listen to because of its own idiosyncratic strengths.

That being said, my Giacchino fandom has been waning lately. I need a little more stylistic variety and melodic and orchestrational maturity from him.

I listened to a bit of his Star Trek and it baffled me how it could sound so bland.

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Giacchino is not and has never been a Williams substitute. His strengths are very, very different from Williams', and I'm sure he'd agree that (as with the vast majority of human beings) his compositional skills simply aren't as deep and varied and advanced as Williams'.

And therein lies the fundamental difference. Plus that god given talent stuff, seemingly oft overlooked.

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The thread title question is a better one. The actual poll is quite extreme in the options.

John Williams?

Or Michael Giacchino, Jerry Goldsmith, Ennio Morricone, James Newton Howard, Danny Elfman, John Powell, Hans Zimmer, Alexandre Desplat, and Thomas Newman?

The answer is obvious IMO.

The problem is, Koray, you really think Giacchino and some of those other guys have equal or superior composing skills than Williams. A bit like Blumenkhol

I listen to plenty of other stuff , but I do have a problem when some proclaim the music of Lost is equal or superior to anything Williams has ever composed.

I'd say the "problem" is your narrow mindedness and ignorance when it comes to anything not composed by Williams.

You don't even know what I listen to and make these statements. I assume you still think I only have my Williams collection I've been playing in a loop for the past 10 years

Sorry but that really pisses me off Mark , and one of the reasons we don' t seem to get along (it's the dead set "perception" you seem to have of me).I have 1500 albums of various film composers in itunes. I listen to almost everything new that comes out except RCP scores .Do I compare everything to Williams standard..yes. Do I listen only to Williams...no, not by a long shot

I may be "narrow minded" in that I only listen to film music but no rock or pop tunes, but limiting my interest in film music to only JW is getting a bit old . And the "ignorant" remark about any film music not composed by Williams is very insulting

Yet you continue to make statements that suggest otherwise.

But no need to worry, I won't waste anymore time debating you about these issues.

There's one person who said Giacchino was the next Williams and that's the man who is responsible for part of JW's success, Steven Spielberg. I don't know who here seriously claimed that he was.

It's a shame that most of complain that modern film music is lacking, and make no mistake it is, but we get a composer, who has his own voice and writes quality film music but no one appreciates it.

But it doesn't matter anymore as I don't have the energy nor desire to continue these debates. I have too much real world stuff and changes in my life going on to be here all the time. Plus I find the the more time I spend on message boards, the less I enjoy listening to film music.

So I am resigning my mod status and bidding you all a farewell.

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If that's really it for Mark, it's a shame. But if his enjoyment of film music is really dampened by the time he spends here, I certainly don't begrudge him his decision.

It's strange to think, though, that if just a few more members in this thread had been more praiseworthy of Giacchino, no one would be bidding anyone farewell.

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It's strange to think, though, that if just a few more members in this thread had been more praiseworthy of Giacchino, no one would be bidding anyone farewell.

Mark has every right to leave if he wants to, but I don't think we need to pretend to enjoy a composer more than we do just to keep other people posting (and for the record, I'm a Giacchino fan).

You'll be missed, Mark, I hope you make the occasional visit every once in a while.

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The thread title question is a better one. The actual poll is quite extreme in the options.

John Williams?

Or Michael Giacchino, Jerry Goldsmith, Ennio Morricone, James Newton Howard, Danny Elfman, John Powell, Hans Zimmer, Alexandre Desplat, and Thomas Newman?

The answer is obvious IMO.

The problem is, Koray, you really think Giacchino and some of those other guys have equal or superior composing skills than Williams. A bit like Blumenkhol

I listen to plenty of other stuff , but I do have a problem when some proclaim the music of Lost is equal or superior to anything Williams has ever composed.

I'd say the "problem" is your narrow mindedness and ignorance when it comes to anything not composed by Williams.

You don't even know what I listen to and make these statements. I assume you still think I only have my Williams collection I've been playing in a loop for the past 10 years

Sorry but that really pisses me off Mark , and one of the reasons we don' t seem to get along (it's the dead set "perception" you seem to have of me).I have 1500 albums of various film composers in itunes. I listen to almost everything new that comes out except RCP scores .Do I compare everything to Williams standard..yes. Do I listen only to Williams...no, not by a long shot

I may be "narrow minded" in that I only listen to film music but no rock or pop tunes, but limiting my interest in film music to only JW is getting a bit old . And the "ignorant" remark about any film music not composed by Williams is very insulting

Yet you continue to make statements that suggest otherwise.

But no need to worry, I won't waste anymore time debating you about these issues.

There's one person who said Giacchino was the next Williams and that's the man who is responsible for part of JW's success, Steven Spielberg. I don't know who here seriously claimed that he was.

It's a shame that most of complain that modern film music is lacking, and make no mistake it is, but we get a composer, who has his own voice and writes quality film music but no one appreciates it.

But it doesn't matter anymore as I don't have the energy nor desire to continue these debates. I have too much real world stuff and changes in my life going on to be here all the time. Plus I find the the more time I spend on message boards, the less I enjoy listening to film music.

So I am resigning my mod status and bidding you all a farewell.

don't go away and don't go away mad. I am not a fan of Giacchino, but he's given music worthy of his fan's appreciation.

Few here have as diverse a love of film music as you. But don't be too hard on those who are not big on MG, remember we are not aren't big fans of HZ, and he's bigtime whether we like his music or not.

I love your posts, they are excellent.

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Yet you continue to make statements that suggest otherwise.

But no need to worry, I won't waste anymore time debating you about these issues.

But it doesn't matter anymore as I don't have the energy nor desire to continue these debates. I have too much real world stuff and changes in my life going on to be here all the time. Plus I find the the more time I spend on message boards, the less I enjoy listening to film music.

So I am resigning my mod status and bidding you all a farewell.

I have praised Gia many times , especially for Let Me In and Super 8. I play those 2 scores a lot. I also made a nice compilation of themes and highlights from his other scores

And I am not against debating and I don't even mind being called a Williams fanboy because that part is true(as Quint and some others call me). I'll mercilessly bash anyone that claims LotR are the best scores ever written and that Gia is the equal of Williams. Or anyone that says any of the Potter scores from GoF onwards are better than Williams

I just don't like being called ignorant of all things and that I know nothing outside of John Williams .

I'm not sure why you would be resigning your mod status, I was just pointing out something you said to me I didn't like. If my reply to you contributed to this I apologize as I don't want you to leave either

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The point I was initially trying to make was that the choice being made is one musician over all the other music in the world. It makes no sense. I love Williams, but I wouldn't want to exclusively listen to his music. The list of composers I chose were just my personal favorites. Any one of you could fill in the blanks and then answer the question again.

For the record, I do think Giacchino has written material equal to or greater than Williams. If any of you are insulted, you shouldn't be. It's not like I'm insulted when you say the opposite.

I bid you adieu, Mark. It's be a pleasure knowing you and discussing things with you, from Zimmer to naked chicks! ;) Run free, my friend!

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Ever since he composed those computer game scores based on Spielberg/Williams films in the late 90's soundtracks fans have been proclaiming him as the new John Williams.

That is another 'prejudice' set perception.

We may all (or may not - i dont remember myslef personally) have said that when we were 'young and inexperienced'...but i think we are all past that by a long shot. I dont anybody thinks that seriously now.

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For the record, I do think Giacchino has written material equal to or greater than Williams. If any of you are insulted, you shouldn't be.

If anyone is genuinely insulted then they seriously need to lighten up.

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For the record, I do think Giacchino has written material equal to or greater than Williams. If any of you are insulted, you shouldn't be.

If anyone is genuinely insulted then they seriously need to lighten up.

This is really the only part of KM's opinion that I generally find unreasonable - that another composer has never written something that equals Williams' work.

We can argue the merits of LotR/SW/RCP till long after the cows have come home and died of old age, but this generalisation that Williams is so skilled and versatile that no one can better him is just the biggest load of rubbish.

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No I honestly think KM has a point.

If we are talking about the best music that Williams has written, then I'd say very few composers have matched or surpassed him. And if they have done so it's only been for an instant.

There is nothing wrong by putting Williams on a pedestal Richard. Isn't that why we are here?

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I love film music. But I would say goodbye forever to everyone if I had to choose them or JW. No score by anyone in history could take the place of Raiders, ET, Hook, Jurassic, Potter, etc. EVER

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For the record, I do think Giacchino has written material equal to or greater than Williams. If any of you are insulted, you shouldn't be.

If anyone is genuinely insulted then they seriously need to lighten up.

This is really the only part of KM's opinion that I generally find unreasonable - that another composer has never written something that equals Williams' work.

We can argue the merits of LotR/SW/RCP till long after the cows have come home and died of old age, but this generalisation that Williams is so skilled and versatile that no one can better him is just the biggest load of rubbish.

I've never understood your beef with this - some people prefer Williams' work to others, why is that so difficult to comprehend? And KM has Williams scores he dislikes and non-Williams scores he likes, so it's not a blind generalisation.

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john is the best, there are no others that can compare to him currently living, but the others have their own virtues. we all have enough time in our lives to enjoy more than one composer.

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This exchange sums up my feeling beautifully:

The thread title question is a better one. The actual poll is quite extreme in the options.

John Williams?

Or Michael Giacchino, Jerry Goldsmith, Ennio Morricone, James Newton Howard, Danny Elfman, John Powell, Hans Zimmer, Alexandre Desplat, and Thomas Newman?

The answer is obvious IMO.

The problem is, Koray, you really think Giacchino and some of those other guys have equal or superior composing skills than Williams. A bit like Blumenkhol

I listen to plenty of other stuff , but I do have a problem when some proclaim the music of Lost is equal or superior to anything Williams has ever composed.

Williams a great composer? Hell yes.

But it's 'problematic' that this fine list of composers could write something to equal the emotional impact and skill of Williams' music?

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I for one like indy4's provocative poll. Unfortunate that it caused the exodus of a moderator, but - alas . . .

I'm in the crowd that loves a great volume of film music from a variety of composers, but I think if I had to put all Williams music on one plate and all other film music on the other, the scale would tip squarely in favor of Williams. There's too much greatness in too high quantities to be matched.

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It's a shame that most of complain that modern film music is lacking, and make no mistake it is, but we get a composer, who has his own voice and writes quality film music but no one appreciates it.

Are you serious?

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There are people here, including me, that really like Giacchino, basically because he a film score fan like us that actually tries to write good stuff and his music is catchy.

Bernard Herrmann > All film composers.

Even Williams would admit that.

I'm fine with this statement as long as it's Herrmann we're talking about :lol:

I will always wonder what he would have come up for some of Williams' films.

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Bernard Herrmann > All film composers.

Even Williams would admit that.

He was a fantastic composer, but his sense of drama and storytelling don't seem to have aged well. Maybe it's because the trade wasn't as developed in his time or maybe it's simply that my ear is more comfortable with the style developed by Goldsmith and Williams in the 1970's and 1980's, but I fail to grasp a sense of narrative even in his best scores.

That being said, it is amazing music that fits each movie's psychology and visuals like a glove.

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My favourite of him is Journey to the Center of the Earth.

It's one of my top 3 of his, for sure. Could really use a re-recording, though. The Herrmann-conducted suite for Decca is fantastic

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Bernard Herrmann > All film composers.

Even Williams would admit that.

No, he wouldn't. He just stated that he has been inspired by Herrmann. In 50 years Herrmann will be forgotten.

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